Is this illegal

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Will S, Jun 25, 2005.

  1. Will S

    Will S Guest

    Will S, Jun 25, 2005
    #1
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  2. in alt.html, Will S wrote:
    > I am just starting to use CSS and have H1 as centre style.


    I don't understand this sentence.

    > Now I am cheating by inserting graphics in the heading
    >
    > ie. <H1> graphics file </H1>


    [Subject:] Is this illegal
    No, it is best way to do it, if you have your heading in image. Of
    course, it would be better to not have text on images.

    And remember to use alt attribute in img element.

    [please include question in body, and use sencible subject line in
    future]


    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
    Kohtuuhintainen yksiö/huone haussa Oulusta syyskuusta eteenpäin.
    Searching places to sleep on axis Bonn - Tsech - Poland - baltic sea in
    july
    Lauri Raittila, Jun 25, 2005
    #2
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  3. Lauri Raittila wrote:

    > in alt.html, Will S wrote:
    >> I am just starting to use CSS and have H1 as centre style.

    >
    > I don't understand this sentence.
    >
    >> Now I am cheating by inserting graphics in the heading
    >>
    >> ie. <H1> graphics file </H1>

    >
    > [Subject:] Is this illegal
    > No, it is best way to do it, if you have your heading in image. Of
    > course, it would be better to not have text on images.



    I think that the original poster knows very well that he does not comply
    with standards. He cannot be assured that his pages will get rendered
    correctly in all browsers. Moreover, he demands more tolerance from the
    browser, which he should not do.

    Since there is no font size associated with an image, why not just use a
    more suitable, rational element than HEADER? If one already breaks the
    rules by embedding important text in an image, why break the document
    structure too? Having said that, if the header contains mathematics that
    HTML cannot convey, then images are fine.


    > And remember to use alt attribute in img element.
    >
    > [please include question in body, and use sencible subject line in
    > future]



    [sarcasm] But then nobody's gonna read it! [/sarcasm]

    Roy

    --
    Roy S. Schestowitz
    http://Schestowitz.com
    Roy Schestowitz, Jun 26, 2005
    #3
  4. Will S

    Will S Guest

    --
    Will Sutton
    http://members.ozemail.com.au/~wlsutton/trip.html
    "Roy Schestowitz" <> wrote in message
    news:d9l4rv$2926$...
    > Lauri Raittila wrote:
    >
    >> in alt.html, Will S wrote:
    >>> I am just starting to use CSS and have H1 as centre style.

    >>
    >> I don't understand this sentence.
    >>
    >>> Now I am cheating by inserting graphics in the heading
    >>>
    >>> ie. <H1> graphics file </H1>

    >>
    >> [Subject:] Is this illegal
    >> No, it is best way to do it, if you have your heading in image. Of
    >> course, it would be better to not have text on images.

    >
    >
    > I think that the original poster knows very well that he does not comply
    > with standards. He cannot be assured that his pages will get rendered
    > correctly in all browsers. Moreover, he demands more tolerance from the
    > browser, which he should not do.


    No I dont know. I havn't played with HTML since last century . I am using
    an older version of Homesite and the document validates,
    Will S, Jun 26, 2005
    #4
  5. in alt.html, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > Lauri Raittila wrote:
    >
    > > in alt.html, Will S wrote:
    > >> I am just starting to use CSS and have H1 as centre style.

    > >
    > > I don't understand this sentence.


    Still don't, but I fail to see how anyone else could... URLs would be
    nice...

    > >> Now I am cheating by inserting graphics in the heading
    > >>
    > >> ie. <H1> graphics file </H1>

    > >
    > > [Subject:] Is this illegal
    > > No, it is best way to do it, if you have your heading in image. Of
    > > course, it would be better to not have text on images.

    >
    >
    > I think that the original poster knows very well that he does not comply
    > with standards.


    The fact is that image inside h1 both comply standard, and is the best
    markup, if that image contains heading. If image is not heading, then it
    is not good to use h1 for it, of course, but I fail to see why h1 was
    used then, exept if OP doesnt know what is div element, and class
    attribute, in which I find unlikely, but maybe it is possible.

    > He cannot be assured that his pages will get rendered
    > correctly in all browsers. Moreover, he demands more tolerance from the
    > browser, which he should not do.


    Exactly what tolerance is he looking, as it is valid and correct in
    browsers poitn of few.

    > Since there is no font size associated with an image, why not just use a
    > more suitable, rational element than HEADER? If one already breaks the
    > rules by embedding important text in an image, why break the document
    > structure too?


    Exactly. If the important text in the image is heading, heading markup
    should be used, even if it does make it bit more complicated.

    [OP: find OE quotefix or get rid of the sig. It's place is not as first
    thing in your post. Also learn to only quote relevant parts, and if you
    want good answer, try explain what you are doing...]

    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
    Kohtuuhintainen yksiö/huone haussa Oulusta syyskuusta eteenpäin.
    Searching places to sleep on axis Bonn - Tsech - Poland - baltic sea in
    july
    Lauri Raittila, Jun 26, 2005
    #5
  6. Will S wrote:

    > "Roy Schestowitz" <> wrote in message
    > news:d9l4rv$2926$...
    >> Lauri Raittila wrote:
    >>
    >>> in alt.html, Will S wrote:
    >>>> I am just starting to use CSS and have H1 as centre style.
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand this sentence.
    >>>
    >>>> Now I am cheating by inserting graphics in the heading
    >>>>
    >>>> ie. <H1> graphics file </H1>
    >>>
    >>> [Subject:] Is this illegal
    >>> No, it is best way to do it, if you have your heading in image. Of
    >>> course, it would be better to not have text on images.

    >>
    >>
    >> I think that the original poster knows very well that he does not comply
    >> with standards. He cannot be assured that his pages will get rendered
    >> correctly in all browsers. Moreover, he demands more tolerance from the
    >> browser, which he should not do.

    >
    > No I dont know. I havn't played with HTML since last century . I am using
    > an older version of Homesite and the document validates,


    I didn't mean to be critical, but I definitely wouldn't encourage structures
    like <h1><img src="foo"></h1>. It looks too organic and prone to breakage.
    It also poorly conveys the structure of the document, which may become
    crucial if you exported it to HTML into PDF, LaTeX or just copied it
    elsewhere.

    What I suggest you do is this:

    -Go to: http://www.csszengarden.com/

    -View the source of the document

    -Now have a look at: http://www.csszengarden.com/zengarden-sample.css

    -Note the way they combine header images and actual text in a very compliant
    and elegant way.

    Roy

    --
    Roy S. Schestowitz
    http://Schestowitz.com
    Roy Schestowitz, Jun 26, 2005
    #6
  7. Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > -Now have a look at: http://www.csszengarden.com/zengarden-sample.css


    > -Note the way they combine header images and actual text in a very
    > compliant and elegant way.


    I'm yet to see an image replacement technique which didn't suffer from
    accessibility issues. I still recommend sticking to a plain old <img>
    element.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
    David Dorward, Jun 26, 2005
    #7
  8. On 26/06/2005 12:17, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    [snip]

    > I didn't mean to be critical, but I definitely wouldn't encourage structures
    > like <h1><img src="foo"></h1>.


    There's nothing wrong with that structurally. With the required alt
    attribute, that is perfectly acceptable if the image does render the
    level one heading for the document. If the image cannot be displayed,
    then the alt attribute will convey whatever the image should have.

    [snip]

    > What I suggest you do is this:
    >
    > -Go to: http://www.csszengarden.com/


    [...]

    > -Note the way they combine header images and actual text in a very compliant
    > and elegant way.


    That isn't very good, in my opinion. If I've disabled images in my
    browser for faster loading times (and I do from time to time), I would
    lose all of the text rendered normally by images. To view that text, I
    would have to disable the style sheet as well.

    Mike

    --
    Michael Winter
    Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.
    Michael Winter, Jun 26, 2005
    #8
  9. Michael Winter wrote:

    > On 26/06/2005 12:17, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >> I didn't mean to be critical, but I definitely wouldn't encourage
    >> structures like <h1><img src="foo"></h1>.

    >
    > There's nothing wrong with that structurally. With the required alt
    > attribute, that is perfectly acceptable if the image does render the
    > level one heading for the document. If the image cannot be displayed,
    > then the alt attribute will convey whatever the image should have.
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >> What I suggest you do is this:
    >>
    >> -Go to: http://www.csszengarden.com/

    >
    > [...]
    >
    >> -Note the way they combine header images and actual text in a very
    >> compliant and elegant way.

    >
    > That isn't very good, in my opinion. If I've disabled images in my
    > browser for faster loading times (and I do from time to time), I would
    > lose all of the text rendered normally by images. To view that text, I
    > would have to disable the style sheet as well.
    >
    > Mike


    Quite ture. I could never comprehend why they _encourage_ people to embed
    images to replace header 2 elements. Some styles, however, provide text
    instead. Most likely, such styles rarely get past the reviewing process.

    Roy

    --
    Roy S. Schestowitz
    http://Schestowitz.com
    Roy Schestowitz, Jun 26, 2005
    #9
  10. in alt.html, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > Quite ture. I could never comprehend why [CSS zen garden] _encourage_
    > people to embed images to replace header 2 elements.


    And why they want people to do it so that when images are not displayed,
    nothing will be seen?

    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
    Kohtuuhintainen yksiö/huone haussa Oulusta syyskuusta eteenpäin.
    Searching places to sleep on axis Bonn - Tsech - Poland - baltic sea in
    july
    Lauri Raittila, Jun 26, 2005
    #10
  11. Will S

    Will S Guest

    "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > in alt.html, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> Lauri Raittila wrote:
    >>
    >> > in alt.html, Will S wrote:
    >> >> I am just starting to use CSS and have H1 as centre style.


    >> >
    >> > I don't understand this sentence.



    Its called been lazy, I am using CSS and have

    H1 {
    color : Maroon;
    font-size : 48px;
    text-align : center;
    }

    Now I am putting images instead of txt ie <H1> Image file</H1>

    Is this legal ?



    >
    > Still don't, but I fail to see how anyone else could... URLs would be
    > nice...



    http://members.ozemail.com.au/~wlsutton/

    I am strictly amateur and its a hobby that I have started on after a 5 year
    break.
    And yes I will be fixing the alt text for graphics ( most have but I missed
    a few )

    >
    >> >> Now I am cheating by inserting graphics in the heading
    >> >>
    >> >> ie. <H1> graphics file </H1>
    >> >
    >> > [Subject:] Is this illegal
    >> > No, it is best way to do it, if you have your heading in image. Of
    >> > course, it would be better to not have text on images.

    >>
    >>
    >> I think that the original poster knows very well that he does not comply
    >> with standards.

    >
    > The fact is that image inside h1 both comply standard, and is the best
    > markup, if that image contains heading. If image is not heading, then it
    > is not good to use h1 for it, of course, but I fail to see why h1 was
    > used then, exept if OP doesnt know what is div element, and class
    > attribute, in which I find unlikely, but maybe it is possible.
    >
    >> He cannot be assured that his pages will get rendered
    >> correctly in all browsers. Moreover, he demands more tolerance from the
    >> browser, which he should not do.

    >
    > Exactly what tolerance is he looking, as it is valid and correct in
    > browsers poitn of few.
    >
    >> Since there is no font size associated with an image, why not just use a
    >> more suitable, rational element than HEADER? If one already breaks the
    >> rules by embedding important text in an image, why break the document
    >> structure too?

    >
    > Exactly. If the important text in the image is heading, heading markup
    > should be used, even if it does make it bit more complicated.
    >
    > [OP: find OE quotefix or get rid of the sig. It's place is not as first
    > thing in your post. Also learn to only quote relevant parts, and if you
    > want good answer, try explain what you are doing...]


    Had include sig in replies ticked..........its is now unticked
    Will S, Jun 27, 2005
    #11
  12. in alt.html, Will S wrote:

    > Now I am putting images instead of txt ie <H1> Image file</H1>
    > Is this legal ?


    As long as those images are the most important heading in page, and have
    alt attribute.

    > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~wlsutton/


    If you add alt="Will's World" to that image, it will be legal.

    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
    Kohtuuhintainen yksiö/huone haussa Oulusta syyskuusta eteenpäin.
    Searching places to sleep on axis Bonn - Tsech - Poland - baltic sea in
    july
    Lauri Raittila, Jun 27, 2005
    #12
  13. Will S

    Dan Guest

    Will S wrote:
    > Now I am putting images instead of txt ie <H1> Image file</H1>
    >
    > Is this legal ?


    You won't be sent to jail for doing it. It won't even stop your HTML
    from validating, if your image element has the required ALT attribute.
    However, it may or may not be good logical structure, depending on
    whether the content of the image (and its ALT attribute value) is
    actually a first-level header for your document. If your intent is
    merely to cause the images to be centered, but they're not headers,
    then you'd be better off defining a class for that purpose in your
    stylesheet, and then using a class attribute in a div element
    surrounding the content you wish to center.

    > Had include sig in replies ticked..........its is now unticked


    If you were using a decent mail/news program, you'd have the option of
    putting the sig blocks where they belong, below the quoted material;
    you're apparently using one that tries to push you into top-posting
    instead.

    --
    Dan
    Dan, Jun 27, 2005
    #13
  14. Will S

    Will S Guest

    "Dan" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Will S wrote:
    >> Now I am putting images instead of txt ie <H1> Image file</H1>
    >>
    >> Is this legal ?

    >
    > You won't be sent to jail for doing it. It won't even stop your HTML
    > from validating, if your image element has the required ALT attribute.
    > However, it may or may not be good logical structure, depending on
    > whether the content of the image (and its ALT attribute value) is
    > actually a first-level header for your document. If your intent is
    > merely to cause the images to be centered, but they're not headers,
    > then you'd be better off defining a class for that purpose in your
    > stylesheet, and then using a class attribute in a div element
    > surrounding the content you wish to center.
    >


    I am new to style sheets. So I give all the images that I want centred the
    same ID and then put that ID in style sheets as centred ?
    Will S, Jun 28, 2005
    #14
  15. Will S wrote:
    > I am new to style sheets. So I give all the images that I want
    > centred the same ID and then put that ID in style sheets as centred


    IDs are unique. You may only use an ID word once in a document. A
    class will do what you want, and be legal.

    Try your page at: http://validator.w3.org/

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jun 28, 2005
    #15
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