Is writing C code very simple?

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by lovecreatesbeauty, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. `Writing C code is very simple', one guy related to my work said.
    I'm not sure whether he is an expert or not. What he said about C
    programming like this can't convince me. I think there should be two
    kinds of people can make such a comment on C programming. One is C
    expert with rich experiences of some years on real projects; The other
    is opportunist idiocy of C programming.

    What do you think of C programming? Is writing C code an art?

    Thinks for your messages and opinion.
    lovecreatesbeauty, Dec 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. lovecreatesbeauty <> wrote:

    > What do you think of C programming? Is writing C code an art?


    Writing code in any language worth writing in is an art.

    --
    Christopher Benson-Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
    ataru(at)cyberspace.org | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.
    Christopher Benson-Manica, Dec 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. lovecreatesbeauty

    John Bode Guest

    lovecreatesbeauty wrote:
    > `Writing C code is very simple', one guy related to my work said.
    > I'm not sure whether he is an expert or not. What he said about C
    > programming like this can't convince me. I think there should be two
    > kinds of people can make such a comment on C programming. One is C
    > expert with rich experiences of some years on real projects; The other
    > is opportunist idiocy of C programming.
    >
    > What do you think of C programming? Is writing C code an art?
    >
    > Thinks for your messages and opinion.


    The act of writing code is simple. Getting it to work right is the
    hard bit.

    C has a shallow but long learning curve; you can start writing useful
    code almost immediately, but it takes a long time to truly master the
    language. There are a lot of quirks and special cases and things that
    seem obvious but really aren't that you have to learn over time. C can
    be frustratingly subtle one moment and just plain brain-damaged the
    next.

    I wouldn't say it's qualitatively more difficult to write C code than
    any other language. However, the bulk of my experience is in older
    3GLs (C, Fortran, Ada, etc.), so take that with the appropriate dose of
    salt.
    John Bode, Dec 28, 2005
    #3
  4. lovecreatesbeauty

    tmp123 Guest

    Develop a program, in any programming language, is not simple.

    Relation between programmer experience and programmer who things that
    programming is not easy is directly proportional.
    tmp123, Dec 28, 2005
    #4
  5. lovecreatesbeauty

    Chris Torek Guest

    In article <>,
    lovecreatesbeauty <> wrote:
    >`Writing C code is very simple', one guy related to my work said.


    Writing English is `very simple', too ... for some definition
    of `very simple'. How many English-language writers can turn
    out *good* short stories, or novels, or poetry?

    >What do you think of C programming? Is writing C code an art?


    All coding is art, as is all poetry. The question is not "is it
    art" but rather: "is it good?"
    --
    In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Wind River Systems
    Salt Lake City, UT, USA (40°39.22'N, 111°50.29'W) +1 801 277 2603
    email: forget about it http://web.torek.net/torek/index.html
    Reading email is like searching for food in the garbage, thanks to spammers.
    Chris Torek, Dec 28, 2005
    #5
  6. lovecreatesbeauty said:

    > `Writing C code is very simple', one guy related to my work said.


    He's right. But nobody said it was easy.

    --
    Richard Heathfield
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
    http://www.cpax.org.uk
    email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
    Richard Heathfield, Dec 28, 2005
    #6
  7. Chris Torek <> writes:
    > In article <>,
    > lovecreatesbeauty <> wrote:
    >>`Writing C code is very simple', one guy related to my work said.

    >
    > Writing English is `very simple', too ... for some definition
    > of `very simple'. How many English-language writers can turn
    > out *good* short stories, or novels, or poetry?
    >
    >>What do you think of C programming? Is writing C code an art?

    >
    > All coding is art, as is all poetry. The question is not "is it
    > art" but rather: "is it good?"


    I'd say that coding is a craft, not an art. The difference is that a
    C program can be unambiguously wrong; art, on the other hand, is in
    the mind of the beholder.

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
    We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
    Keith Thompson, Dec 28, 2005
    #7
  8. lovecreatesbeauty

    buda Guest

    "Chris Torek" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > lovecreatesbeauty <> wrote:
    >>What do you think of C programming? Is writing C code an art?

    >
    > All coding is art, as is all poetry. The question is not "is it
    > art" but rather: "is it good?"
    >

    <OT>
    There is an unfortunate (for this matter) duality to the meaning of the word
    'art' in the English language. Coding is certainly an art in the sense that
    is close to 'skill', or something similar. However, I don't see how one
    could make a case about coding being an art in the other sense (like
    painting, music or whatnot). Sure, you can find beauty even in code, both
    writing it and reading it, but that's a bit of a stretch in my opinion. I
    think "other people" think saying coding (or math for that matter) is an art
    (in the poetry sense) is extremely geeky :) I don't care much about that as
    such, but thinking about comparing even the most beautiful piece of code
    with a 'quality' poem seems silly :) On the other hand, a whole bunch of
    things are considered art by the "highly cultured people" (like a straight
    line of black paint on a square meter of white paper), so I guess coding can
    beat that without braking a sweat :)
    </OT>
    buda, Dec 28, 2005
    #8
  9. On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 19:32:46 GMT, in comp.lang.c , Keith Thompson
    <> wrote:

    >Chris Torek <> writes:


    >> All coding is art, as is all poetry. The question is not "is it
    >> art" but rather: "is it good?"

    >
    >I'd say that coding is a craft, not an art. The difference is that a
    >C program can be unambiguously wrong; art, on the other hand, is in
    >the mind of the beholder.


    I guess some would argue that Picasso's cubist stuff was unambiguously
    wrong with regard to key aspects of drawing, eg perspective. Others
    don't care. It pretty much depends what you want it to do for you.
    Mark McIntyre
    --

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    Mark McIntyre, Dec 28, 2005
    #9
  10. lovecreatesbeauty

    Chris Torek Guest

    >"Chris Torek" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> All coding is art, as is all poetry. The question is not "is it
    >> art" but rather: "is it good?"


    In article <doupfp$ni4$-com.hr>
    buda <> wrote:
    ><OT>
    >There is an unfortunate (for this matter) duality to the meaning of the word
    >'art' in the English language.


    Actually, I was using this in my reply, because good poetry makes
    effective use of ambiguity. :)

    >Coding is certainly an art in the sense that
    >is close to 'skill', or something similar.


    Yes. Or -- I think this is actually a better analogy than poetry,
    but it did not lend itself as much to the desired ambiguity :) --
    architecture (as in buildings), which includes both "engineering"
    aspects (it is bad if the building falls down) and "beauty" aspects
    (unadorned concrete buildings may be structurally sound but are
    usually considered ugly).

    >However, I don't see how one could make a case about coding being
    >an art in the other sense (like painting, music or whatnot). Sure,
    >you can find beauty even in code, both writing it and reading it,
    >but that's a bit of a stretch in my opinion.


    Without stretching at all, I find some code quite beautiful, and
    some code quite ugly. On the other hand, it is true that there is
    no accounting for taste. :)

    (The original poster failed, in my opinion anyway, to distinguish
    clearly whether he was interested in "algorithmic and syntactic
    beauty", "engineering soundness", or both. In my experience,
    neither is trivial in *any* programming language. But some languages
    are more obtrusive than others: Fortran-66 and COBOL make "clean
    syntax" difficult, for instance.)
    --
    In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Wind River Systems
    Salt Lake City, UT, USA (40°39.22'N, 111°50.29'W) +1 801 277 2603
    email: forget about it http://web.torek.net/torek/index.html
    Reading email is like searching for food in the garbage, thanks to spammers.
    Chris Torek, Dec 28, 2005
    #10
  11. Keith Thompson <> wrote:

    > I'd say that coding is a craft, not an art. The difference is that a
    > C program can be unambiguously wrong; art, on the other hand, is in
    > the mind of the beholder.


    Granted, but a C program can be unambiguously correct but not possess
    the elusive quality of "elegance". There are enough style zealots out
    there that there must be *some* element of art in this field.

    --
    Christopher Benson-Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
    ataru(at)cyberspace.org | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.
    Christopher Benson-Manica, Dec 28, 2005
    #11
  12. lovecreatesbeauty

    Malcolm Guest

    "lovecreatesbeauty" <> wrote
    >
    > `Writing C code is very simple', one guy related to my work said.
    > I'm not sure whether he is an expert or not. What he said about C
    > programming like this can't convince me. I think there should be two
    > kinds of people can make such a comment on C programming. One is C
    > expert with rich experiences of some years on real projects; The other
    > is opportunist idiocy of C programming.
    >
    > What do you think of C programming? Is writing C code an art?
    >
    > Thinks for your messages and opinion.
    >

    If you have an aptitude for programming, it should take you about a week to
    learn the C language.
    Similarly if you have some aptitude for writing, it should take you about a
    week to learn the rules of blank verse.
    Having mastered your iambic pentameters, it will take considerably more than
    a week to write a produceable play, but it is by no means unachieveable. I
    wrote one myself as a sxith-former.
    If you want to write a play better than "Hamlet" however, you will find it
    very difficult. Very few playwrights succeed even after years of trying.
    Even Shakespeare, I'm sure, would have agreed that there was more he could
    learn about writing plays.
    Malcolm, Dec 28, 2005
    #12
  13. lovecreatesbeauty

    Guest

    buda wrote:
    > "Chris Torek" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > In article <>,
    > > lovecreatesbeauty <> wrote:
    > >>What do you think of C programming? Is writing C code an art?

    > >
    > > All coding is art, as is all poetry. The question is not "is it
    > > art" but rather: "is it good?"
    > >

    > <OT>
    > There is an unfortunate (for this matter) duality to the meaning of the word
    > 'art' in the English language. Coding is certainly an art in the sense that
    > is close to 'skill', or something similar. However, I don't see how one
    > could make a case about coding being an art in the other sense (like
    > painting, music or whatnot). Sure, you can find beauty even in code, both
    > writing it and reading it, but that's a bit of a stretch in my opinion. I
    > think "other people" think saying coding (or math for that matter) is an art
    > (in the poetry sense) is extremely geeky :)


    I am an artist, engineer and programmer so I guess I'm qualified to
    comment on this. The way you look at art, that is looking at 'beauty',
    is how a non-artist looks at art. The way artists, when among
    themselves, look at art is different. It is very much how a programmer
    looks at a piece of code. Artists, when looking at art, consider things
    programmers often consider when looking at code. The technical
    difficulties in achieving an effect. The problems and solutions in
    producing the artwork. The originality of idea. The (minimal or
    excessive) use of materials and resources. What can be achieved with
    very limited resources. Wasted resources. The engineering involved
    (especially for very large sculptures). How viewers (end users) respond
    to your artwork.

    These technical details are often not fully appreciated by the casual
    observer just as protected memory and pre-emptive multasking are not
    fully appreciated by the casual Windows users.

    When I'm with my art friends, the contents of the conversation change
    but the kind of conversation is very similar to what find in
    engineering circles: problem solving. The artist, like the engineer, is
    essentially a problem solver. And like the engineer, the artist have
    formal tools at his disposal: vanishing point perspective, color theory
    etc.

    > I don't care much about that as such, but thinking about comparing even the
    > most beautiful piece of code with a 'quality' poem seems silly :)


    That may be (I've never been good at literature) but when photographers
    talk about the perfect shot they talk about shutter speed, film grain
    and color saturation the way programmers talk about modularity, code
    clarity and scalability in the perfect code.

    Of course, there is the middle ground when the two actually meet such
    as HTML where both the code and the artwork can be made to be
    beautiful.

    PS: Check out my "art" art at: http://slebetman.homeip.net/nart.html
    for coding art, that site runs on a web server I wrote myself.
    , Dec 29, 2005
    #13
  14. lovecreatesbeauty

    Guest

    Reading all these seems ALL PROGRAMMERS ARE IN A LUNCH TIME BREAK !!!!
    Please C other threads
    ........................................................................................................................................................
    Thanks
    , Dec 29, 2005
    #14
  15. lovecreatesbeauty

    Afifov Guest

    Coding in C is like working at the molecular/atomic level of everything in
    the world. Everything is made up of atoms, so if you know your atomic
    structure, you know the object.

    And if you programme in C, then you know your programming!

    Java is written in C. go figure.
    Afifov, Dec 29, 2005
    #15
  16. lovecreatesbeauty

    Guest

    Afifov wrote:
    > Coding in C is like working at the molecular/atomic level of everything in
    > the world. Everything is made up of atoms, so if you know your atomic
    > structure, you know the object.


    Although there are times when looking at the forest rather than the
    trees is preferable.

    >
    > And if you programme in C, then you know your programming!
    >
    > Java is written in C. go figure.
    , Dec 29, 2005
    #16
  17. Afifov wrote:
    > Coding in C is like working at the molecular/atomic level of everything in
    > the world. Everything is made up of atoms, so if you know your atomic
    > structure, you know the object.
    >
    > And if you programme in C, then you know your programming!
    >
    > Java is written in C. go figure.


    All the Java environment (apart for the core of the Java Virtual Machine
    which is written in C/C++ in many implementations) is written in Java.

    Swing and other stuff that are closely connected with the underlying
    OS/hardware are written in either C or C++ (depending on programmer's
    preference) and use JNI.

    Java is not written in C. Just parts of it.
    Giannis Papadopoulos, Dec 30, 2005
    #17
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