Issuing Cookies :->

M

Marvin Miller

Hi Friends;

How do I issue cookies to people?
The reason I ask is that I use WebTrends to analyze the log files and it
never has data for New vs. Return Visits because I am not giving out
cookies.

Can anyone cough up some code for cookies? All I would like is for that
section of WebTrends to show data. I have little to no HTML/PHP experience
:)

Thanks;
Marvin
 
T

Toby A Inkster

Marvin said:
Can anyone cough up some code for cookies? All I would like is for that
section of WebTrends to show data. I have little to no HTML/PHP experience
:)

In PHP:

<?php setcookie( "key", "value", time()+((24*60*60)*7) ); ?>

This line sets the cookie "key=value". It expires in 7 days.
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?brucie?=

How do I issue cookies to people?

depends on the language
The reason I ask is that I use WebTrends to analyze the log files and it
never has data for New vs. Return Visits because I am not giving out
cookies.

you need to consult the help/configuration files of the script to find
out what to do. however...

Analog 5.32: How the web works
4. What you can't know.
You can't tell the identity of your readers.
You can't tell how many visitors you've had.
You can't tell how many visits you've had.
Cookies don't solve these problems.
You can't follow a person's path through your site.
You often can't tell where they entered your site, or where they found
out about you from.
You can't tell how they left your site, or where they went next.
You can't tell how long people spent reading each page.
You can't tell how long people spent on your site.
http://www.analog.cx/docs/webworks.html

Why web usage statistics are (worse than) meaningless
http://www.goldmark.org/netrants/webstats/

Why Webbrowser statistics lie and just don't say anything
http://j3e.de/statistics_lie.html
 
M

Marvin Miller

brucie said:
depends on the language


you need to consult the help/configuration files of the script to find
out what to do. however...

Analog 5.32: How the web works
4. What you can't know.
You can't tell the identity of your readers.
You can't tell how many visitors you've had.
You can't tell how many visits you've had.
Cookies don't solve these problems.
You can't follow a person's path through your site.
You often can't tell where they entered your site, or where they found
out about you from.
You can't tell how they left your site, or where they went next.
You can't tell how long people spent reading each page.
You can't tell how long people spent on your site.
http://www.analog.cx/docs/webworks.html

Why web usage statistics are (worse than) meaningless
http://www.goldmark.org/netrants/webstats/

Why Webbrowser statistics lie and just don't say anything
http://j3e.de/statistics_lie.html

Brucie;

I recommend you download the WebTrends free trial program. It's showing me
all sorts of areas that I can improve on in the site. Most of these are
confirmations of things I have long since suspected. Now I know that in
comparison to you I know very little (in fact - compared to most people!)
but I bet if you did download the WebTrends software and used it for the
full 14 days your opinion of log analysis would change quite a bit.

Best;
Marvin
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?brucie?=

but I bet if you did download the WebTrends software and used it for the
full 14 days your opinion of log analysis would change quite a bit.

its not my opinion, its fact. its how the internet works. your log
analyzer whatever it may be is making a lot of guesses because the
data they use is at best incomplete and misleading.

example: how many visitors did you get from australia last month?
answer: you don't know, you cant tell.

you can guess that a computer in australia connected to your site but
that doesn't necessarily mean the visitor was in australia or the
visitor was human.
 
M

Marvin Miller

brucie said:
its not my opinion, its fact. its how the internet works. your log
analyzer whatever it may be is making a lot of guesses because the
data they use is at best incomplete and misleading.

example: how many visitors did you get from australia last month?
answer: you don't know, you cant tell.

you can guess that a computer in australia connected to your site but
that doesn't necessarily mean the visitor was in australia or the
visitor was human.

WebTrends is using what they call the GeoTrends database (as are many other
log analyzers) I think what they do is contact IANA (or whomever) and find
out where all the IP address sets are registered to globally. It's roughly
300 megs in size and I would assume IANA knows where the addresses really
are.

This makes resolution a whole lot more accurate. I really think your idea on
how useless a good log analyzer is way too broad & general. Mine shows a ton
of very relevant data - so much so that it makes me wonder
how someone could do without one.

WebTrends top analyzer is a whopping 10,500 USD. That's a lot - and it does
a lot - you can download a free trial to check it out and see if your views
are little 'outdated' :) I'd certainly be curious to see your opinions of
it after you've used it. I bet your views would change considerably.

The one I'm looking at is 500 USD and a somewhat scaled back version. It's
going to hurt to buy it but it will hurt a lot more by not having it. As far
as I'm concerned the issues it's highlighted is probably already worth the
500 although it would be a lot nice if it was 99.95 like everything else :->
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?brucie?=

WebTrends is using what they call the GeoTrends database (as are many other
log analyzers) I think what they do is contact IANA (or whomever) and find
out where all the IP address sets are registered to globally. It's roughly
300 megs in size and I would assume IANA knows where the addresses really
are.

that still doesn't work. the IP number of the computer that accessed
your site may or may not have any relationship with the physical
location of where the request originated.

it looks much better when trying to sell a product to have "location:
xyz" rather then "location: unknown, maybe xyz".

don't believe everything you read especially when the author has a
vested interest in making money.
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?brucie?=

that still doesn't work. the IP number of the computer that accessed
your site may or may not have any relationship with the physical
location of where the request originated.

example: my current IP address is 203.220.197.174 and i'm in sunny
queensland australia.

http://www.ip-to-location.com/

Live Demo Using IP2Location? - September 2003
Your IP Address is: 61.11.26.142
You're located in: (IN) INDIA,DELHI, NEW DELHI
You're connecting to the Internet through DISHNETDSL LTD
p/s We deliver IP2Location? to INDIA as well ... Buy now.

gee thats not right, lets hit refresh and see what happens...

Your IP Address is: 200.107.184.246
You're located in: (PE) PERU, LIMA, LIMA
You're connecting to the Internet through: LATIN AMERICAN AND
CARIBBEAN IP ADDRESS REGIONAL REGISTRY
p/s We deliver IP2Location? to PERU as well ... Buy now.

refresh again...

Your IP Address is: 219.94.114.6
You're located in: (MY) MALAYSIA
You're connecting to the Internet through: TMNET TELEKOM MALAYSIA
BERHAD
p/s We deliver IP2Location? to MALAYSIA as well ... Buy now.

thats much better, at least its in the same neighborhood.

now what do you think your server stats would show? 3 sperate visitors
in 3 different countries or one visitor hitting refresh twice?
 
W

Whitecrest

example: my current IP address is 203.220.197.174 and i'm in sunny
queensland australia.
http://www.ip-to-location.com/
gee thats not right, lets hit refresh and see what happens...
refresh again...
thats much better, at least its in the same neighborhood.

Got mine right down to the name of the cable company that supplies the
line.
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?brucie?=

Got mine right down to the name of the cable company that supplies the
line.

that introduces another problem. what if 99 different people use the
same IP address as you do? do the server stats show 100 different
visitors from your location or just you? maybe something in between?
 
T

Talc Ta Matt

that introduces another problem. what if 99 different people use the
same IP address as you do? do the server stats show 100 different
visitors from your location or just you?

Something tells me that any webmaster who controls that many surfers from just
one IP alone isn't worrying about his hit's and unique's stat numbers being
correct. He's worried about where his latest car is going to fit.
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?brucie?=

Something tells me that any webmaster who controls that many surfers from just
one IP alone isn't worrying about his hit's and unique's stat numbers being
correct. He's worried about where his latest car is going to fit.

what has a webmaster got to do with it? the ISP assigns you an IP
number when you connect to the internet to identify your computer. not
a webmaster of a site somewhere. millions of people may be assigned
the same one. IPs don't grow on trees.
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?brucie?=

lol... you are so dense.

definitely. you'll have to explain to me how a webmaster of a site
somewhere assigns me an IP to run around within my ISPs network. the
only thing i've done is login to my ISPs network, i haven't gone
anywhere and when i do go somewhere NATs all over the place are going
to change the IP because there just isn't enough IPs to go around.
 
T

Toby A Inkster

Whitecrest said:
Got mine right down to the name of the cable company that supplies the
line.

Well if you know where to look, you can trace me down to my exact address
(including flat number!) from my IP address, but that's because I have my
IP block registered personally to me rather than to my ISP.

However, most people aren't quite as geeky as me so it's harder to figure
out where they are.

Usually you can find out their ISP from their IP address, but sometimes
not even that (many smaller, local ISPs lease their IPs from a larger ISP).

I believe that the 8 million (?) UK subscribers to AOL show up as being in
America. Freeserve, another one of the big 4 UK ISPs is owned by Wanadoo
in France, and although they currently show up as being in the UK, who
knows what the future may bring? BT (yet another of the big 4) have some
kind of deal with Yahoo, so maybe at some point in the future they will
show up as being in the US too?

Caching and proxies will come into effect too.

Web server logs are often a good way to judge general trends, but they
should not be relied upon as an accurate source of information, as we have
already seen with the User-Agent spoofing debate.
 
T

Toby A Inkster

brucie said:
what has a webmaster got to do with it? the ISP assigns you an IP
number when you connect to the internet to identify your computer.

I'm not sure you understood what Talc was saying.

If a webmaster is getting so many hits that it includes 100 hits from just
one IP address, they're probably raking it in and don't really care about
where their visitors are coming from.
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?brucie?=

I'm not sure you understood what Talc was saying.

If a webmaster is getting so many hits that it includes 100 hits from just
one IP address, they're probably raking it in and don't really care about
where their visitors are coming from.

number of visitors (that you don't know anyway) doesn't necessarily
have any relationship to the number of sales.

there are a lot of things you need to overcome before a visitor will
part with their money.

30% of your visitors will no longer shop at your store on the street
if they're not happy with their experience with your site. thats a
double hit.

30% also judge the site design more important that the product

46% judge your credibility on the design look.

51% will leave if they're not happy with the site speed.

65% of your visitors earning over 70,000 USD (a nice customer to have)
will leave if they don't like the design of the site.

75% of visitors aged between 25-34 will leave if they don't like the
site usability.

thats just the design, what about the product and services you offer?

63% are gone if they don't like (or can find) a return policy.

65% are gone if they're not happy with or cant find the delivery
times.

66% are gone if theres no order tracking

69% want a good selection of product to compare

76% aren't interested if you don't have any special promotions or
incentives

86% want the product now, not next week.

92% are gone if they don't like price or shipping price.

now how does the number of unknown visitors relate to the number of
sales?
 
P

PeterMcC

brucie said:
number of visitors (that you don't know anyway) doesn't necessarily
have any relationship to the number of sales.

there are a lot of things you need to overcome before a visitor will
part with their money.

30% of your visitors will no longer shop at your store on the street
if they're not happy with their experience with your site. thats a
double hit.

30% also judge the site design more important that the product

46% judge your credibility on the design look.

51% will leave if they're not happy with the site speed.

65% of your visitors earning over 70,000 USD (a nice customer to have)
will leave if they don't like the design of the site.

75% of visitors aged between 25-34 will leave if they don't like the
site usability.

thats just the design, what about the product and services you offer?

63% are gone if they don't like (or can find) a return policy.

65% are gone if they're not happy with or cant find the delivery
times.

66% are gone if theres no order tracking

69% want a good selection of product to compare

76% aren't interested if you don't have any special promotions or
incentives

86% want the product now, not next week.

92% are gone if they don't like price or shipping price.

now how does the number of unknown visitors relate to the number of
sales?

Nice stats, brucie - can you post the source? It would be v useful.
 
?

=?iso-8859-1?Q?brucie?=

Nice stats, brucie - can you post the source? It would be v useful.

http://www.jupiterresearch.com/ and http://www.genex.com/ the reports
are clients only. http://cyberatlas.internet.com/ has published the
summaries, they usually do.

Shoppers Demand Decent Design
http://cyberatlas.com/markets/retailing/article/0,,6061_2224101,00.html

i especially like:

"It looks like it's designed by a marketing team, and not by people
who want to get you the information that you need," commented a survey
participant during a test site evaluation.

E-Commerce Should Hold Its Own This Holiday Season
http://cyberatlas.internet.com/markets/retailing/article/0,,6061_903401,00.html

that report is older than i thought it was so who knows what the
numbers are now. considering the decent design report i would say
visitors are probably becoming less rather than more tolerant.

i also found this when i was looking around.

E-Commerce Evaluation Reveals Errors
http://cyberatlas.internet.com/markets/retailing/article/0,,6061_3064131,00.html
 

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