J2 proposal: keyword

[Robert Brewer]

Just to put collected wisdom in one spot for now, here's what's in my
draft:


III. Choosing a keyword

If a keyword is to be chosen over @ or other punctuation, the question
remains, "which word should it be?" Many words have been proposed, and
although we may recommend a small number here, it is more important that
we establish guidelines for the selection of a keyword. The keyword:

-Should not be used widely as an identifier in existing Python code.
-Should be easy to remember when writing new code.
-Should be easy to remember when reading existing code.
-Should be easy to search for, in both docs and Google.
-Should not be a word with a planned future. This rules out "with" and
"as" (I should probably footnote this).
-In this author's opinion (back me up here, people), it should not be a
form of the word "decorate". The term "decorate" conflicts with two
separate concepts: both the GoF Decorator pattern (which is a runtime
wrapper, not a compile-time one), and with our own beloved
"decorate-sort-undecorate" pattern (aka Schwartzian or Guttman-Rosler
Transform).

-Candidates for keywords have fallen into two or three camps, and
emphasize different aspects of decorators:

-Declarative: declare, predef, moddef
-Transformative: transform, wrap, modify, mutate
-Attributive/Annotative: amend, using, having
-Directive: pragma, signify
-Associative: helper, qualify, qual, meta
-Cross-cutting: imbue, endow, bestow, embellish, extend, accum, glom,
confer
-Prepositions/Adverbs: using, through, per, via, by


I had an ugly paragraph promoting 'declare' as a top candidate, but I've
always liked 'using' (which many of you promoted within the past 24
hours). Maybe the above will produce further polarization among you.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Roy Smith]

Just to put collected wisdom in one spot for now, here's what's in my
draft:


III. Choosing a keyword

If a keyword is to be chosen over @ or other punctuation, the question
remains, "which word should it be?" Many words have been proposed, and
although we may recommend a small number here, it is more important that
we establish guidelines for the selection of a keyword. The keyword:

-Should not be used widely as an identifier in existing Python code.
-Should be easy to remember when writing new code.
-Should be easy to remember when reading existing code.
-Should be easy to search for, in both docs and Google.
-Should not be a word with a planned future. This rules out "with" and
"as" (I should probably footnote this).
-In this author's opinion (back me up here, people), it should not be a
form of the word "decorate". The term "decorate" conflicts with two
separate concepts: both the GoF Decorator pattern (which is a runtime
wrapper, not a compile-time one), and with our own beloved
"decorate-sort-undecorate" pattern (aka Schwartzian or Guttman-Rosler
Transform).

Putting on my "Slightly Silly Party" hat, may I suggest that "pie" meets
all of those constraints

 

[Peter Hansen]

III. Choosing a keyword [snip good list of principles]
-Candidates for keywords have fallen into two or three camps, and
emphasize different aspects of decorators:

-Declarative: declare, predef, moddef
-Transformative: transform, wrap, modify, mutate
-Attributive/Annotative: amend, using, having
-Directive: pragma, signify
-Associative: helper, qualify, qual, meta
-Cross-cutting: imbue, endow, bestow, embellish, extend, accum, glom,
confer
-Prepositions/Adverbs: using, through, per, via, by

I had an ugly paragraph promoting 'declare' as a top candidate, but I've
always liked 'using' (which many of you promoted within the past 24
hours). Maybe the above will produce further polarization among you.

+1 on "using" as the best of the choices above.

I find the declarative ones awkward, transform inappropriate when
transforming is not going on, attributive ones okay (but "amend"
sounds like it must come afterwards), directive too compiler-like,
associative not bad but too abstract, cross-cutting too much like
"decorate" not to mention sort of frivolous-sounding, and prepositions
mostly too vague (except for "using" again).

-Peter

 

[Arthur]

-Candidates for keywords have fallen into two or three camps, and
emphasize different aspects of decorators:

-Declarative: declare, predef, moddef
-Transformative: transform, wrap, modify, mutate
-Attributive/Annotative: amend, using, having
-Directive: pragma, signify
-Associative: helper, qualify, qual, meta
-Cross-cutting: imbue, endow, bestow, embellish, extend, accum, glom,
confer
-Prepositions/Adverbs: using, through, per, via, by

There is only consensus as to what any of those words would mean, in
context. Make happen:

foo=whatever(foo)

Some of us - at least one of us - find that a point with real
significance. It cannot be said better than it is being said, is the
point,

And I think it is stretching things to an extreme to imply that the
poll results reflect a concensus of the community in any direction.
There is a more fundamental lack of consensus as to whether Guido
should allow himself to be influenced by these kinds of polls.

I do not have blind faith in Guido's instincts. I do think he is in a
unique position to see the Big Picture of all the issues and forces at
work. Being at the center of the storm.

So in the end I might have ended up doing exactly what I have accused
others of doing in other cases - reading into the @decorator syntax
decision (assuming *some* syntax is a fait accompli) - finding it to
be wise, for reasons perhaps beyond its intentions.

Art

 

[Anthony Baxter]

So in the end I might have ended up doing exactly what I have accused
others of doing in other cases - reading into the @decorator syntax
decision (assuming *some* syntax is a fait accompli) - finding it to
be wise, for reasons perhaps beyond its intentions.

As someone else said at some point during the last two weeks of
decorator discussions - we're all using a language that, by and large,
is Guido's design. He's done a good job so far of producing something
that's excellent - I trust him to produce a good result here.

I hope the final decision ends up getting less vitriolic responses
than the 2.4a2 release got.

 

[Paul Rubin]

-Candidates for keywords have fallen into two or three camps, and
emphasize different aspects of decorators:

-Declarative: declare, predef, moddef
-Transformative: transform, wrap, modify, mutate
-Attributive/Annotative: amend, using, having
-Directive: pragma, signify
-Associative: helper, qualify, qual, meta
-Cross-cutting: imbue, endow, bestow, embellish, extend, accum, glom,
confer
-Prepositions/Adverbs: using, through, per, via, by

Not sure where these would go: prologue, preamble, preface

How about something like "def_using"?

 

[John Crichton]

Hi,

+1, also, on "using".

John

 

[Andrew Durdin]

Certainly "using... def..." comes across very clearly to me. I think
it the best of the proposed keywords.

 

[Nicolas Fleury]

I had an ugly paragraph promoting 'declare' as a top candidate, but I've
always liked 'using' (which many of you promoted within the past 24
hours). Maybe the above will produce further polarization among you.

+1 for using.
Nicolas

 

[Oliver Fromme]

> III. Choosing a keyword
> [...]
> -Candidates for keywords have fallen into two or three camps, and
> emphasize different aspects of decorators:
>
> -Declarative: declare, predef, moddef
> -Transformative: transform, wrap, modify, mutate
> -Attributive/Annotative: amend, using, having
> -Directive: pragma, signify
> -Associative: helper, qualify, qual, meta
> -Cross-cutting: imbue, endow, bestow, embellish, extend, accum, glom,
> confer
> -Prepositions/Adverbs: using, through, per, via, by

Aren't decorators just functions that are applied to the
function definition? Then how about "apply"? It's short
(for those lazy typers), and it expresses exactly what
happens.


apply:
staticmethod
memoize
def foo (int):
pass


Best regards
Oliver

 

[Anthony Baxter]

Aren't decorators just functions that are applied to the
function definition? Then how about "apply"?

It's already the name of an (now deprecated) builtin. It won't
becoming a keyword, I suspect ever.

 

[Peter Hansen]

Aren't decorators just functions that are applied to the
function definition? Then how about "apply"? It's short
(for those lazy typers), and it expresses exactly what
happens.

Python 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32<built-in function apply>


I'm fairly sure that fact alone would cause a lot of grief in one
way or the other.

-Peter

 

[Paul McGuire]

Putting on my "Slightly Silly Party" hat, may I suggest that "pie" meets
all of those constraints

.... with the exception of the assumed constraint that the keyword will be a
*word*, and not some malodorous punctuation mark resembling a SNOTTY-FACED
HEAP OF PARROT DROPPINGS!!!

Oh, sorry, that was abuse...

-- Paul