[J2ME] views wanted for new MIDP-developer site idea

[DigiAl]

Hi all,



I've been developing MIDP games for mobile phones for about a year now and
one of the main problems I've come across is the lack of information about
devices and their (java specific) specifications and their bugs/unique ways
of doing things.



Therefore I am thinking about building a website that will try to solve this
problem plus more and would like to get other developer's views on the
idea - is it worth it? will you use the site (if its done well, obviously)?



The parts/ideas for the site are:

* List of Java compatible mobile phones with:

* Their specs (canvas size, memory sizes etc.)

* List of bugs/comments per device added by me



All can be updated/added to by other users - will be fully database driven
and searchable/filterable



* Updated list of articles from external sources/sites rated and well
described (i.e. not just a list of links). I may add some of my own also.
Will be categorized and searchable in some form.

Categories such as: Resources, Tutorials, News, etc..



* Free apps and games section - with games I've found around the net, plus
any freeware games I do, plus user added games



* Forum - for general discussion





I have also written an easy to use, IDE independent, development application
witch i use to simplify the compilation & deployment stages of J2ME
development, which also include a pre-processor Ant task which I will also
have on the site for free download.



So what do you think? All feedback will be greatly received.



ps. sorry for cross posting but i would like to reach the most J2ME
developers, followup-to is set to c.l.j.p.



Alan.

 

[JScoobyCed]

Yeah, a J2ME / MIDP website that provide al this information will be of
course welcome. There are many site about the topic, but not very
technically detailled (ok, Sun website provide good information about
J2ME/MIDP related programming, and it is not their goal to provide
information about all devices, codes, etc ... though they do have a J2ME
device list).
Anyway, if you come up with the website, don't hesitate to post your url
then.

Good luck

JScoobyCed
-------------

 

[Hugh Beyer]

Yeah, a J2ME / MIDP website that provide al this information will be of
course welcome. There are many site about the topic, but not very
technically detailled (ok, Sun website provide good information about
J2ME/MIDP related programming, and it is not their goal to provide
information about all devices, codes, etc ... though they do have a J2ME
device list).
Anyway, if you come up with the website, don't hesitate to post your url
then.

Good luck

JScoobyCed

Ditto. There are a lot of informal sites out there but they are all limited.
The carriers and phone manuafacturers all have forums, but they are uniformly
dead--few posts, fewer replies, no authoritative support from the
manufacturers.

If you do this, consider making it a wiki. That way you make it easy for
people to contribute their expertise.

Hugh

 

[Binary Sage]

Personally I think this is a great idea. I'm just starting to dive into
J2ME and I've been very disappointed with the web based sources of
information. It seems that the wealth of info is toward Java (95%) while
the J2ME specific info is very low. I'd say go for it. I'll be one of the
first to register.

 

[DigiAl]

Thanks for your comments - I will hopefully build the site in the next few
weeks and will defiantly post the address here.

thanks,

alan.

 

[Olaf Foellinger]

Thanks for your comments - I will hopefully build the site in the next few
weeks and will defiantly post the address here.

Do you know http://www.j2meforum.com/?

 

[DigiAl]

Do you know http://www.j2meforum.com/?

Nah I didn't and thanks, and after translating it (http://tinyurl.com/3yxhz)
it was quite good, but the site I want to build will be less like a forum
but more like a specs and answers site - which I will get info from other
sites around the web, keep it updated and link to interesting articles etc I
find, plus it will allow others to contribute easily too - I hope it works
and if it does it should quite good.

alan.

 

[Roedy Green]

plus it will allow others to contribute easily too

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/wiki.html

I'm surprised these sides don't have more trouble with vandalism.

 

[DigiAl]

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/wiki.html

I'm surprised these sides don't have more trouble with vandalism.

That's what I thought too,

I'll probably will have web forms that will add/modify the back-end database
and have all the pages dynamically generated from that data - done other
sites like that so shouldnt be too hard. And that way the design and data
is kept separate.

alan.

 

[Michael Borgwardt]

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/wiki.html

I'm surprised these sides don't have more trouble with vandalism.

Everyone says that. Wikis simply keep a history of all pages, so any
vandalism can be undone quickly and easily and as long as you have
far more well-meaning contributors than vandals, it works.

 

[Hugh Beyer]

That's what I thought too,

I use a couple on the web--wikipedia and the XP wiki. Apparently they're
pretty self-policing and because old pages are archived, you never lose
anything if someone comes in and makes a mess.

Hugh

 

[JDeats]

Great idea! I've been working with J2ME the past few weeks and I one
thing I find extreemly frustrating is the lack of information about
specific phones.

I've actually been though three different models and two providers
recently just trying to get a hold of a phone I can load my test
applications into without some sort of signing verification process by
the provider.

For example, I began my quest with Verizon. I selected the Nokia 3595i
which supports BREW natively, but I was told by the rep that it
supported "Java on top of BREW", which that phone actually does but
the trick of it is the J9 (Java on BREW) apps have to go though the
BREW digital rights management to make it into the phone (how
wonderful for Verizon). I did some more research and it turns out that
none of the Verizon phones support J2ME natively.

I lost about three days on the above. So next I switch to Cingular and
now I have a phone that supports Java natively (Samsung X427) however
it's OS is careful configured so that J2ME apps can't make it into the
phone by way of e-mail attachment and Cingular seems to be filtering
the WAP downloads (e.g. when I browse to the JAD file, I'm prompted to
begin the JAR download (it displays the name of JAR and the file size
and ask "Do you want to install") which I do, but it stops after 14%
and gives me the message "Not Supported".

If anyone has experience deploying MIDlets over Cingular networks
please tell e if you have to have a MIDLet signed.

It's very fursting for beginners because the Cell phone companies are
trying to block all access to MIDLets they see these applications as a
way to make royalities and they want to collect on everything going
into their phones. They mask this beyond the good intentions of
"validating content" and "insuring quality". But it's all very
confusing for the J2ME developer, because testing the apps on real
hardware is the fun of it, and it's essential to ensuring quality
(that's a bit of irony for you).

So continuing on with my story, I'm preparing to take this Samsung
back because I have no clue why I can't get my JAR files to download
properly. I can't find any documentation on Cingular's site that says
"you must do this to enable WAP downloads", I can't find any
information in Suns documentation about signing JAR files (is such a
thing possible? is it common?). Many unanswered questions and this NG
is pretty quite when it comes to this sort of thing.

If they've managed to lock out WAP deployment then I'm really out of
luck with this phone because Samsung blocks JAR files as attachments
(it just doesn't accept them) and the software provided with the data
cable does not allow you to get to the Java folders. Again, none of
this was documented anywhere that I could find.

Now I'm looking at the Nokia 6200. I'm sure Cingular will lock down
WAP access on this as well, but I doubt they can prevent me from using
Oxygen and DKU-5 data cable and getting my JARs installed, damn them.
It's all a guessing game, and a very expensive one.

-Jeremy

 

[Hugh Beyer]

(e-mail address removed) (JDeats) wrote in

Great idea! I've been working with J2ME the past few weeks and I one
thing I find extreemly frustrating is the lack of information about
specific phones.

I've actually been though three different models and two providers
recently just trying to get a hold of a phone I can load my test
applications into without some sort of signing verification process by
the provider.

<snip sob story>

Yep. Wake up and smell the coffee, this is not your grandmother's PC. The
carriers have no interest in making their cell phones an open platform--they
own the field, they provide the ball, they make the rules, and you play by
them or you don't play in their game.

Get an AT&T phone. They're the only carrier I know that allows over-the-air
(or IR) download without any horsing around. I do not expect this to last.

Hugh

 

[DigiAl]

(e-mail address removed) (JDeats) wrote in


Yep. Wake up and smell the coffee, this is not your grandmother's PC. The
carriers have no interest in making their cell phones an open platform--they
own the field, they provide the ball, they make the rules, and you play by
them or you don't play in their game.

Get an AT&T phone. They're the only carrier I know that allows over-the-air
(or IR) download without any horsing around. I do not expect this to last.

Hugh

That's a bit harsh. Like Jeremy said the info is hard to come by - so how
could he know AT&T are the only carriers that allowed OTA?

Jeremy,
MIDP 2.0 allows you to sign MIDlets - don't know if that'll help you at all?

Anyway, where are you from because over here in England I've never had
problems with OTA deployment (well apart from WAP being so unreliable) I
don't think anyone bars any downloading of jar's or anything like that,
maybe over time they might.

But yeah my site is about providing info like which phones support OTA/data
cable etc deployment etc.. just hope people will share they're experiences.

Alan.

 

[JDeats]

I live in the southern part of the US (Houston, Texas). My phone only
supports MIDP 1.0 so I guess the digital signing isn't possible (is
that correct?). I managed to get the deployment to work. Cingular (a
popular cell phone service here in the US www.cingular.com) seems to
require a specific order to the JAD file. I moved some fields around
and elimated optional fields and got it to work.

I've been developing for six years now (professionally) I'm new to
J2ME, but I'm very interested in this technology. I've done WAP
development in Java and .NET, most of my programming these days is C#
on the Windows platform, but there isn't a .NET counterpart to J2ME
(and likely never will be, unless Microsoft's SmartPhone OS takes
over) so I've been pulled back into Java.

I'd like to offer to help with your website, I'm still new. I've found
newcomers can be useful resources because the learning path I go down
is similar to what other experienced developers will likely follow, so
there's an opportunity to document that process.

A think a section for hardware reviews, with each cell phone listed
and a section for developers to review specific phones and provides
information on compatiblity and issues.

-Jeremy

 

[DigiAl]

I live in the southern part of the US (Houston, Texas). My phone only
supports MIDP 1.0 so I guess the digital signing isn't possible (is
that correct?). I managed to get the deployment to work. Cingular (a
popular cell phone service here in the US www.cingular.com) seems to
require a specific order to the JAD file. I moved some fields around
and elimated optional fields and got it to work.

I've been developing for six years now (professionally) I'm new to
J2ME, but I'm very interested in this technology. I've done WAP
development in Java and .NET, most of my programming these days is C#
on the Windows platform, but there isn't a .NET counterpart to J2ME
(and likely never will be, unless Microsoft's SmartPhone OS takes
over) so I've been pulled back into Java.

I'd like to offer to help with your website, I'm still new. I've found
newcomers can be useful resources because the learning path I go down
is similar to what other experienced developers will likely follow, so
there's an opportunity to document that process.

A think a section for hardware reviews, with each cell phone listed
and a section for developers to review specific phones and provides
information on compatiblity and issues.

-Jeremy

Yeah you need to watch those Jad attributes - some phones can be very fussy!

For signed MIDlets see:
http://www.microjava.com/articles/perspective/midp2_unleashing?content_id=6089


I've just started designing the site - will post a url once its at a decent
state.

I was thinking of listing as many (J2ME supported) devices as possible with
they're specifications and any comments I have and having a form so people
can:

* Post a bug report
* Post experiences (comments/opinions) about device
* Report specification update

The specs will include things like canvas size etc but also things like
whether the phone supports OTA and/or data cable deployment.

Also the site will have a resources section with sub-sections: Software, How
To's, Hints & Tips and News which will be good for beginners to find what
they need but also handy for experienced developers to quickly find out
stuff quickly.

ps. Can you bottom post please - top posting makes it hard to follow the
sequence of replies - thanks.

alan.

 

[JamesMason]

Yep. Wake up and smell the coffee, this is not your grandmother's PC. The
carriers have no interest in making their cell phones an open platform--they
own the field, they provide the ball, they make the rules, and you play by
them or you don't play in their game.

Get an AT&T phone. They're the only carrier I know that allows over-the-air
(or IR) download without any horsing around. I do not expect this to last.

Hugh

Huge,

Actually Cingular, T-Mobile, AT&T (now owned by Cingular) and Sprint
all allow you to perform J2ME installs over WAP without restriction.
Most of them limit the amount of kbytes you can download (and start
applying overage charges), but they let you download whatever you
want. Verizon is the only one I know of that limits you in this way,
and my understanding is that's one of the reasons they went with
QUALCOMMS Brew over J2ME, but the J2ME push has forced Verizon to
rethink things and now they are offering J2ME on top of Brew (all
their BREW enabled phones also have IBM's J9 J2ME implementation on
top of BREW, but as the original poster stated it's tightly controlled
deployment.

The situation is not nearly as bad as the original poster implies.

**** James

 

[Hugh Beyer]

(e-mail address removed) (JamesMason) wrote in

Huge,

Actually Cingular, T-Mobile, AT&T (now owned by Cingular) and Sprint
all allow you to perform J2ME installs over WAP without restriction.
Most of them limit the amount of kbytes you can download (and start
applying overage charges), but they let you download whatever you
want. Verizon is the only one I know of that limits you in this way,
and my understanding is that's one of the reasons they went with
QUALCOMMS Brew over J2ME, but the J2ME push has forced Verizon to
rethink things and now they are offering J2ME on top of Brew (all
their BREW enabled phones also have IBM's J9 J2ME implementation on
top of BREW, but as the original poster stated it's tightly controlled
deployment.

The situation is not nearly as bad as the original poster implies.

Nextel also requires that you register and get a wire to install an app, and
then you have to go through their site to deploy.

You're right about Sprint--and I shouldn't have gotten this wrong because I
did it just last week. I plead advancing age.

Have you gotten a T-Mobile download to work? I haven't, but it's not a target
platform for us so I haven't tried very hard.

It's still true though, that the carriers are not treating their phones as
open platforms--they all are thinking in terms of accepting apps to enhance
their brands, not providing a platform anybody can deploy to. I don't expect
this to change soon.

Hugh