J2SE 1.4.2 or J2SE 5.0?

Discussion in 'Java' started by Martijn Mulder, Jun 27, 2005.

  1. At Sun's download page at

    http://java.sun.com/j2se/

    I have the choice between J2SE version 1.4.2 and
    J2SE version 5.0. I program applications and applets
    for the average Windows user.

    It seems there is missing some three and a half version
    of J2SE. Or is this policy at Sun, where they shipped
    Java2 as JDK1.3.1 (to complicate matters).

    What version will do for me? I want a stable and bug-free development kit.
    Martijn Mulder, Jun 27, 2005
    #1
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  2. Martijn Mulder

    Daniel Dyer Guest

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:38:10 +0100, Martijn Mulder <i@m> wrote:

    > At Sun's download page at
    >
    > http://java.sun.com/j2se/
    >
    > I have the choice between J2SE version 1.4.2 and
    > J2SE version 5.0. I program applications and applets
    > for the average Windows user.
    >
    > It seems there is missing some three and a half version
    > of J2SE. Or is this policy at Sun, where they shipped
    > Java2 as JDK1.3.1 (to complicate matters).
    >
    > What version will do for me? I want a stable and bug-free development
    > kit.


    Suns' marketing people are crazy. Java 1.1 and earlier were just Java
    (not Java 2). Java 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4 were all Java 2. Java 5.0 is also
    (still) Java 2 ("the platform") but is often referred to as 1.5 as this
    line of versioning has been retained for the SDK (which has reverted to
    being referred to as the JDK). There has not been any Java 3 or Java 4.
    The next version is to be called Java 6 (but it will still be J2SE as the
    platform is still "Java 2").

    So what we have these days is the "Java Development Kit version 1.5 for
    the Java 2 Platform Standard Edition version 5.0". This is from the same
    company that gave us the incredibly misleading "Sun Java Desktop".

    I've no idea how Sun will dig themselves out of this hole in the future.
    Maybe after JDK 1.9 well get J10SE?

    In my experience Java 5.0 is fine. Some companies want to stick with the
    tried and tested 1.4.2 in case there is some nasty problem lurking in 5.0
    that has not beeen revealed because it has not been used as extensively.

    Dan.

    --
    Daniel Dyer
    http://www.footballpredictions.net
    Daniel Dyer, Jun 27, 2005
    #2
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  3. On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:38:10 +0200, Martijn Mulder wrote:

    > I have the choice between J2SE version 1.4.2 and
    > J2SE version 5.0. I program applications and applets
    > for the average Windows user.


    In general, it helps for developers to have the latest SDK,
    unless it is a very buggy 'beta' release. With the latest
    SDK, you can generally do everything you could in previous
    SDKs (including compiling for 1.1 compatibility etc.),
    plus a little more.

    > It seems there is missing some three and a half version
    > of J2SE. Or is this policy at Sun, where they shipped
    > Java2 as JDK1.3.1 (to complicate matters).


    I heard it put down to 'Marketing Types' who felt there
    was a perception that Java was 'falling behind' because
    the version numbers were not going up as fast as ..the Jones'
    (or whatever technology was flavour of the moment).

    Hence, the huge leap of numbers.

    > What version will do for me? I want a stable and bug-free development kit.


    The 1.5.0_03 SDK release is pretty good, though there is
    still a niggling bug in the JRE that sends IE haywire if
    you hit an appet URL that conatins an expanded '~' (that
    won't be fixed until 1.5.0_04).

    The '03' variant is pretty safe to develop with, but I will
    not be recommending 1.5 to my applet users until the later
    (_04) fix is available.

    HTH

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
    Andrew Thompson, Jun 27, 2005
    #3
  4. > > I have the choice between J2SE version 1.4.2 and
    > > J2SE version 5.0. I program applications and applets
    > > for the average Windows user.

    >
    > In general, it helps for developers to have the latest SDK,
    > unless it is a very buggy 'beta' release. With the latest
    > SDK, you can generally do everything you could in previous
    > SDKs (including compiling for 1.1 compatibility etc.),
    > plus a little more.
    >
    > > It seems there is missing some three and a half version
    > > of J2SE. Or is this policy at Sun, where they shipped
    > > Java2 as JDK1.3.1 (to complicate matters).

    >
    > I heard it put down to 'Marketing Types' who felt there
    > was a perception that Java was 'falling behind' because
    > the version numbers were not going up as fast as ..the Jones'
    > (or whatever technology was flavour of the moment).
    >
    > Hence, the huge leap of numbers.
    >
    > > What version will do for me? I want a stable and bug-free development kit.

    >
    > The 1.5.0_03 SDK release is pretty good, though there is
    > still a niggling bug in the JRE that sends IE haywire if
    > you hit an appet URL that conatins an expanded '~' (that
    > won't be fixed until 1.5.0_04).
    >
    > The '03' variant is pretty safe to develop with, but I will
    > not be recommending 1.5 to my applet users until the later
    > (_04) fix is available.





    Thank you Andrew, thank you Daniel. J2SE 5.0 version 4 is
    available now, my computer is taking it in this very moment.
    Martijn Mulder, Jun 27, 2005
    #4
  5. Andrew Thompson, Jun 27, 2005
    #5
  6. Martijn Mulder

    Roland Guest

    On 27-6-2005 16:36, Andrew Thompson wrote:
    > On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:38:10 +0200, Martijn Mulder wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have the choice between J2SE version 1.4.2 and
    >>J2SE version 5.0. I program applications and applets
    >>for the average Windows user.

    >
    >
    > In general, it helps for developers to have the latest SDK,
    > unless it is a very buggy 'beta' release. With the latest
    > SDK, you can generally do everything you could in previous
    > SDKs (including compiling for 1.1 compatibility etc.),
    > plus a little more.
    >
    >
    >>It seems there is missing some three and a half version
    >>of J2SE. Or is this policy at Sun, where they shipped
    >>Java2 as JDK1.3.1 (to complicate matters).

    >
    >
    > I heard it put down to 'Marketing Types' who felt there
    > was a perception that Java was 'falling behind' because
    > the version numbers were not going up as fast as ..the Jones'
    > (or whatever technology was flavour of the moment).
    >
    > Hence, the huge leap of numbers.
    >
    >
    >>What version will do for me? I want a stable and bug-free development kit.

    >
    >
    > The 1.5.0_03 SDK release is pretty good, though there is
    > still a niggling bug in the JRE that sends IE haywire if
    > you hit an appet URL that conatins an expanded '~' (that
    > won't be fixed until 1.5.0_04).


    If you are referring to bug 6227551
    (<http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6227551>), that bug
    was fixed in 1.5.0_03. See
    <http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/ReleaseNotes.html#150_03>.

    >
    > The '03' variant is pretty safe to develop with, but I will
    > not be recommending 1.5 to my applet users until the later
    > (_04) fix is available.
    >
    > HTH
    >



    --
    Regards,

    Roland de Ruiter
    ` ___ ___
    `/__/ w_/ /__/
    / \ /_/ / \
    Roland, Jun 27, 2005
    #6
  7. Martijn Mulder

    Wendy Smoak Guest

    "Martijn Mulder" <i@m> wrote
    >
    > Thank you Andrew, thank you Daniel. J2SE 5.0 version 4 is
    > available now, my computer is taking it in this very moment.
    >


    FWIW, you might want to get *both* 1.5 and 1.4.2. You'll still run into
    some situations for a while where 1.5 won't work. (Building other people's
    projects, mostly.)

    --
    Wendy Smoak
    Wendy Smoak, Jun 27, 2005
    #7
  8. "Daniel Dyer" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:38:10 +0100, Martijn Mulder <i@m> wrote:
    >
    > > At Sun's download page at
    > >
    > > http://java.sun.com/j2se/
    > >
    > > I have the choice between J2SE version 1.4.2 and
    > > J2SE version 5.0. I program applications and applets
    > > for the average Windows user.
    > >
    > > It seems there is missing some three and a half version
    > > of J2SE. Or is this policy at Sun, where they shipped
    > > Java2 as JDK1.3.1 (to complicate matters).
    > >
    > > What version will do for me? I want a stable and bug-free development
    > > kit.

    >
    > Suns' marketing people are crazy. Java 1.1 and earlier were just Java
    > (not Java 2). Java 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4 were all Java 2. Java 5.0 is also
    > (still) Java 2 ("the platform") but is often referred to as 1.5 as this
    > line of versioning has been retained for the SDK (which has reverted to
    > being referred to as the JDK)... <snip>


    fyi, the version I tried to download and install, (didn't work, the Windows
    installer
    is corrupt) is called jdk_1_5_0_04-etc... So JDK again. Shall we nominate them?
    Martijn Mulder, Jun 27, 2005
    #8
  9. On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:09:44 +0200, Roland wrote:

    >> The 1.5.0_03 SDK release is pretty good, though there is
    >> still a niggling bug in the JRE that sends IE haywire if
    >> you hit an appet URL that conatins an expanded '~' (that
    >> won't be fixed until 1.5.0_04).

    >
    > If you are referring to bug 6227551


    I was indeed.

    > (<http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6227551>), that bug
    > was fixed in 1.5.0_03. See
    > <http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/ReleaseNotes.html#150_03>.


    Aaah.. I see I misread the bug resolution now.
    No *wonder* no-one would talk to me, when I asked
    when I could download _04!

    Thanks for the clarification.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
    Andrew Thompson, Jun 27, 2005
    #9
  10. Martijn Mulder

    Roland Guest

    On 27-6-2005 18:53, Andrew Thompson wrote:
    > On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:09:44 +0200, Roland wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>The 1.5.0_03 SDK release is pretty good, though there is
    >>>still a niggling bug in the JRE that sends IE haywire if
    >>>you hit an appet URL that conatins an expanded '~' (that
    >>>won't be fixed until 1.5.0_04).

    >>
    >>If you are referring to bug 6227551

    >
    >
    > I was indeed.
    >
    >
    >>(<http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6227551>), that bug
    >>was fixed in 1.5.0_03. See
    >><http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/ReleaseNotes.html#150_03>.

    >
    >
    > Aaah.. I see I misread the bug resolution now.
    > No *wonder* no-one would talk to me, when I asked
    > when I could download _04!
    >
    > Thanks for the clarification.
    >

    IIRC the bug was initially scheduled to be fixed in release _04. But
    maybe due to the severity of the bug it has been fixed earlier (or the
    bug was trivial to fix...)
    --
    Regards,

    Roland de Ruiter
    ` ___ ___
    `/__/ w_/ /__/
    / \ /_/ / \
    Roland, Jun 27, 2005
    #10
  11. Martijn Mulder

    Roland Guest

    On 27-6-2005 16:23, Daniel Dyer wrote:

    > On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:38:10 +0100, Martijn Mulder <i@m> wrote:
    >
    >> At Sun's download page at
    >>
    >> http://java.sun.com/j2se/
    >>
    >> I have the choice between J2SE version 1.4.2 and
    >> J2SE version 5.0. I program applications and applets
    >> for the average Windows user.
    >>
    >> It seems there is missing some three and a half version
    >> of J2SE. Or is this policy at Sun, where they shipped
    >> Java2 as JDK1.3.1 (to complicate matters).
    >>
    >> What version will do for me? I want a stable and bug-free development
    >> kit.

    >
    >
    > Suns' marketing people are crazy. Java 1.1 and earlier were just Java
    > (not Java 2). Java 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4 were all Java 2. Java 5.0 is also
    > (still) Java 2 ("the platform") but is often referred to as 1.5 as this
    > line of versioning has been retained for the SDK (which has reverted to
    > being referred to as the JDK). There has not been any Java 3 or Java
    > 4. The next version is to be called Java 6 (but it will still be J2SE
    > as the platform is still "Java 2").
    >
    > So what we have these days is the "Java Development Kit version 1.5 for
    > the Java 2 Platform Standard Edition version 5.0". This is from the
    > same company that gave us the incredibly misleading "Sun Java Desktop".
    >
    > I've no idea how Sun will dig themselves out of this hole in the
    > future. Maybe after JDK 1.9 well get J10SE?
    >
    > In my experience Java 5.0 is fine. Some companies want to stick with
    > the tried and tested 1.4.2 in case there is some nasty problem lurking
    > in 5.0 that has not beeen revealed because it has not been used as
    > extensively.
    >
    > Dan.


    Well, hold your breath. According to Graham Hamilton's blog, Sun is
    going to change the names of the platforms again: the Java marketing
    team have decided to simplify the naming system by dropping the "2" from
    the platform name and the ".0" from the release number.
    J2SE -> Java SE
    J2EE -> Java EE
    J2ME -> Java ME
    The next release after J2SE 5.0 (codename Tiger) will thus become "Java
    SE 6" (Mustang).
    <http://weblogs.java.net/blog/kgh/archive/2005/06/goodbye_j2se_he_1.html>
    <http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javaone2005/naming.html>
    --
    Regards,

    Roland de Ruiter
    ` ___ ___
    `/__/ w_/ /__/
    / \ /_/ / \
    Roland, Jun 27, 2005
    #11
  12. Martijn Mulder

    Daniel Dyer Guest

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:33:37 +0100, Roland <> wrote:

    > Well, hold your breath. According to Graham Hamilton's blog, Sun is
    > going to change the names of the platforms again: the Java marketing
    > team have decided to simplify the naming system by dropping the "2" from
    > the platform name and the ".0" from the release number.
    > J2SE -> Java SE
    > J2EE -> Java EE
    > J2ME -> Java ME
    > The next release after J2SE 5.0 (codename Tiger) will thus become "Java
    > SE 6" (Mustang).
    > <http://weblogs.java.net/blog/kgh/archive/2005/06/goodbye_j2se_he_1.html>
    > <http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javaone2005/naming.html>


    Well that would be a reasonably sensible move but could lead to more
    confusion, particularly for the enterprise edition. "J2EE" has become
    synonymous with "enterprise Java" and is indispensible in the buzzword
    bingo world of IT recruitment. HR departments will be especially
    confused, particularly as "Java 2 Enterprise Edition" to "Java Enterprise
    Edition" looks like a regression.

    Dan.

    --
    Daniel Dyer
    http://www.footballpredictions.net
    Daniel Dyer, Jun 27, 2005
    #12
  13. Martijn Mulder

    . Guest

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Martijn Mulder wrote:

    > At Sun's download page at
    >
    > http://java.sun.com/j2se/
    >
    > I have the choice between J2SE version 1.4.2 and
    > J2SE version 5.0. I program applications and applets
    > for the average Windows user.


    There are some significant syntax changes from 1.4.2 to 1.5.0 (also called
    J2SE 5.0). If you are just programming for yourself then go for 1.5.0. If
    you want to be able to write code that 1.4.2 can use then be careful. Some
    1.5.0 code will not work on 1.4.2 but all 1.4.2 code will work on 1.5.0.

    > It seems there is missing some three and a half version
    > of J2SE. Or is this policy at Sun, where they shipped
    > Java2 as JDK1.3.1 (to complicate matters).


    With Sun there is marketing and there is development. It seems the two
    will always differ. Here is the basic run down:

    Dev Marketing
    --- ---------
    1.0 Java 1.0
    1.1 Java 1.1
    1.2 Java 2 or J2SE
    1.3 J2SE 1.3
    1.4 J2SE 1.4
    1.5 J2SE 5.0
    1.6 Java SE 6

    To be honest, I probably got something wrong. I always talk in terms of
    what `java -version` or `java -fullversion` outputs. All this Java 2,
    J2SE, Java SE stuff is really just marketing and branding. I let our
    marketing people deal with what (tm) and (c) stuff goes in the
    documentation and adverts.

    I'd recommend 1.5.0_03-b07. The 1.6.0 is the next release so you want to
    stick with something that has been out there in production environments.
    That would be 1.5.0.

    --
    Send e-mail to: darrell dot grainger at utoronto dot ca
    ., Jun 27, 2005
    #13
  14. Martijn Mulder

    . Guest

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Daniel Dyer wrote:

    > On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:33:37 +0100, Roland <> wrote:
    >
    > > Well, hold your breath. According to Graham Hamilton's blog, Sun is
    > > going to change the names of the platforms again: the Java marketing
    > > team have decided to simplify the naming system by dropping the "2" from
    > > the platform name and the ".0" from the release number.
    > > J2SE -> Java SE
    > > J2EE -> Java EE
    > > J2ME -> Java ME
    > > The next release after J2SE 5.0 (codename Tiger) will thus become "Java
    > > SE 6" (Mustang).
    > > <http://weblogs.java.net/blog/kgh/archive/2005/06/goodbye_j2se_he_1.html>
    > > <http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javaone2005/naming.html>

    >
    > Well that would be a reasonably sensible move but could lead to more
    > confusion, particularly for the enterprise edition. "J2EE" has become
    > synonymous with "enterprise Java" and is indispensible in the buzzword
    > bingo world of IT recruitment. HR departments will be especially
    > confused, particularly as "Java 2 Enterprise Edition" to "Java Enterprise
    > Edition" looks like a regression.


    Hmmm, never thought about this. I was always thinking it didn't matter
    what I use because everyone I work with knows what I'm talking about
    regardless of what terminology I am using.

    I could get screened out of an interview just because I used J2EE rather
    than Java EE or Java Enterprise Edition. Something to remember next time
    I'm updating my resume.

    --
    Send e-mail to: darrell dot grainger at utoronto dot ca
    ., Jun 27, 2005
    #14
  15. > FWIW, you might want to get *both* 1.5 and 1.4.2. You'll still run into
    > some situations for a while where 1.5 won't work. (Building other people's
    > projects, mostly.)



    I just installed jdk1.5.0_04 on a Windows machine and compiled an
    application. The 'minimize' button on the right top of the frame
    looks crippled. Lightweight, so I suppose java put it there. When
    full size, the button looks OK.
    Martijn Mulder, Jun 28, 2005
    #15
  16. "Daniel Dyer" <> writes:

    > So what we have these days is the "Java Development Kit version 1.5
    > for the Java 2 Platform Standard Edition version 5.0". This is from
    > the same company that gave us the incredibly misleading "Sun Java
    > Desktop".


    It's marketing, you can't have Java 1.5 when C# has 2.0, since 2.0 is
    higher than 1.5, indicating C# has surpassed Java (it hasn't by the
    way).

    > I've no idea how Sun will dig themselves out of this hole in the
    > future. Maybe after JDK 1.9 well get J10SE?


    It's nothing compared to Solaris. SunOS 5.7 = Solaris 2.7 = Solaris 7.

    http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/solaris/versions/
    Tor Iver Wilhelmsen, Jun 28, 2005
    #16
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