Java in the working world...

Discussion in 'Java' started by Joe Bob Anonymous, Jun 30, 2003.

  1. So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace utilizing things
    like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in the direction
    of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.

    Is it just me or does it seem like all jobs being offered out there want you to have
    experience in the later? I figured my experience in Java in general might give me an
    edge in the learning curve... but I wanna ask the community out here. How hard would
    it be for me to tune my skills in the J2EE direction?? Am I just in an odd situation
    where I haven't had to use such things yet??
    Joe Bob Anonymous, Jun 30, 2003
    #1
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  2. Joe Bob Anonymous

    Sudsy Guest

    Joe Bob Anonymous wrote:
    > So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace
    > utilizing things
    > like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in
    > the direction
    > of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.
    >
    > Is it just me or does it seem like all jobs being offered out there want
    > you to have
    > experience in the later? I figured my experience in Java in general
    > might give me an
    > edge in the learning curve... but I wanna ask the community out here.
    > How hard would
    > it be for me to tune my skills in the J2EE direction?? Am I just in an
    > odd situation
    > where I haven't had to use such things yet??
    >


    I don't think it's unusual that you haven't had exposure to EJBs.
    Based on my own experience, only big companies (and surprisingly
    few at that) seem to have taken on the J2EE challenge. It's a
    shame, IMHO, as this is an elegant platform for mission-critical
    apps.
    But then I've seen more jobs listed in the past two weeks than
    I've seen in months. Perhaps the climate is thawing? That would
    be very nice news and long in coming. Perhaps companies have
    finally figured out that you can't stay in maintenance mode
    forever.
    If you wanted to get some practice on your own then you could
    download a J2EE server from either Sun or IBM. The WebSphere
    AppServer can be had on a six month trial basis for free. It's
    fun (seriously!) even if you don't have a real-world app to
    deliver.
    Sudsy, Jun 30, 2003
    #2
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  3. Joe Bob Anonymous

    Ken Ream Guest

    "Joe Bob Anonymous" <> wrote in message
    news:pW%La.811$...
    > So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace

    utilizing things
    > like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in the

    direction
    > of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.
    >
    > Is it just me or does it seem like all jobs being offered out there want

    you to have
    > experience in the later? I figured my experience in Java in general might

    give me an
    > edge in the learning curve... but I wanna ask the community out here. How

    hard would
    > it be for me to tune my skills in the J2EE direction?? Am I just in an

    odd situation
    > where I haven't had to use such things yet??


    It helps if you understand http. But you should haven't much problems.
    Not odd, I've seen plenty of jobs where they wanted Swing experience.
    Every company has different needs.




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    Ken Ream, Jun 30, 2003
    #3
  4. "Joe Bob Anonymous" <> wrote in message
    news:pW%La.811$...
    > So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace

    utilizing things
    > like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in the

    direction
    > of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.
    >
    > Is it just me or does it seem like all jobs being offered out there want

    you to have
    > experience in the later? I figured my experience in Java in general might

    give me an
    > edge in the learning curve... but I wanna ask the community out here. How

    hard would
    > it be for me to tune my skills in the J2EE direction?? Am I just in an

    odd situation
    > where I haven't had to use such things yet??
    >


    Install tomcat or something and play with it at home in your spare time.
    Miguel De Anda, Jul 1, 2003
    #4
  5. Joe Bob Anonymous

    Wendy S Guest

    Joe Bob Anonymous wrote:

    > So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace
    > utilizing things
    > like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in the
    > direction of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.
    > Is it just me or does it seem like all jobs being offered out there want
    > you to have experience in the later?


    I haven't been job hunting lately, but I've been using JSP & Servlets
    (Struts/JSTL/Tomcat) exclusively and NOT the things in your first list!

    No EJB's though. I read about them, asked around, and discovered that for
    our little app, they would most likely be overkill.

    --
    Wendy in Chandler, AZ
    "BTW, Lucifer just called and he needs a pair of ice skates :)"
    James Turner on struts-dev, voting to release Struts 1.1 Final
    Wendy S, Jul 1, 2003
    #5
  6. I have concerns similar to those of Joe Bob. I began writing
    simple Swing applications, then added client JDBC, wrote a large
    app and most recently some applets. Now I find myself limited by
    the kinds of issues that made RMI, JNI and servlets necessary.

    So, what's next? Should I learn RMI and JNI now or should
    I go straight to servlets? I have the vague impression that
    the newfangled servlet replaced the older RMI and JNI?

    TIA,

    -Ramon




    Joe Bob Anonymous <> wrote in message news:<PW%La.811$>...
    > So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace utilizing things
    > like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in the direction
    > of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.
    >
    > Is it just me or does it seem like all jobs being offered out there want you to have
    > experience in the later? I figured my experience in Java in general might give me an
    > edge in the learning curve... but I wanna ask the community out here. How hard would
    > it be for me to tune my skills in the J2EE direction?? Am I just in an odd situation
    > where I haven't had to use such things yet??
    Ramon F Herrera, Jul 1, 2003
    #6
  7. Joe Bob Anonymous

    Tim Jowers Guest

    (Ramon F Herrera) wrote in message news:<>...
    ....snip...
    > So, what's next? Should I learn RMI and JNI now or should
    > I go straight to servlets? I have the vague impression that
    > the newfangled servlet replaced the older RMI and JNI?
    >
    > TIA,
    >
    > -Ramon
    >
    > Joe Bob Anonymous <> wrote in message news:<PW%La.811$>...
    > > So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace utilizing things
    > > like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in the direction
    > > of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.
    > >


    Maybe you should start by looking at the MVC design pattern. And you
    maybe can skip a few steps by looking at Web Services rather than
    servlets if you want. Maybe that will be the next hot topic as it
    allows code to be written in .NET or J2EE and work together. As
    always, the sun tutorials are a good place to start.
    Tim
    Tim Jowers, Jul 1, 2003
    #7
  8. Joe Bob Anonymous

    Daniel Dyer Guest

    On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:21:02 -0700, Wendy S <> wrote:

    > Joe Bob Anonymous wrote:
    >
    >> So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace
    >> utilizing things
    >> like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in
    >> the
    >> direction of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.
    >> Is it just me or does it seem like all jobs being offered out there want
    >> you to have experience in the later?

    >
    > I haven't been job hunting lately, but I've been using JSP & Servlets
    > (Struts/JSTL/Tomcat) exclusively and NOT the things in your first list!
    >
    > No EJB's though. I read about them, asked around, and discovered that
    > for our little app, they would most likely be overkill.


    You're right, EJBs are overkill in many situations. While EJBs have many
    obvious advantages, often they are used because some programmer wants to
    try something new and get the latest buzzword on his/her CV. The most
    important thing to learn about EJBs is when not to use them. That's not to
    say that EJBs are not useful in the right situations, but they're not a
    silver bullet.

    Dan.

    --
    Daniel Dyer
    Empathy Software (http://www.empathysoftware.com)


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    Daniel Dyer, Jul 1, 2003
    #8
  9. Joe Bob Anonymous

    Guest

    (Ramon F Herrera) wrote in message news:<>...
    > I have concerns similar to those of Joe Bob. I began writing
    > simple Swing applications, then added client JDBC, wrote a large
    > app and most recently some applets. Now I find myself limited by
    > the kinds of issues that made RMI, JNI and servlets necessary.
    >
    > So, what's next? Should I learn RMI and JNI now or should
    > I go straight to servlets? I have the vague impression that
    > the newfangled servlet replaced the older RMI and JNI?
    >
    > TIA,
    >
    > -Ramon


    Download tomcat and learn servlets/jsp's (and maybe struts)
    , Jul 1, 2003
    #9
  10. Joe Bob Anonymous <> scribbled the following:
    > So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace utilizing things
    > like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in the direction
    > of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.


    > Is it just me or does it seem like all jobs being offered out there want you to have
    > experience in the later? I figured my experience in Java in general might give me an
    > edge in the learning curve... but I wanna ask the community out here. How hard would
    > it be for me to tune my skills in the J2EE direction?? Am I just in an odd situation
    > where I haven't had to use such things yet??


    Servlets are pretty much crucial in my line of Java programming work.
    We are developing an in-house monitoring system for our customer, which
    will be working via a web browser interface. On the side of our
    software, the communication with the user is implemented with Servlets.
    We also use JSPs for some parts of the user interface. On the opposite
    end, the system communicates with the customer's database using JDBC.
    On the other hand, we don't use any of the other technologies you
    mention - RMI, JNI, EJB or even Swing.

    --
    /-- Joona Palaste () ---------------------------\
    | Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
    | http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
    \----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
    "Life without ostriches is like coffee with milk."
    - Mika P. Nieminen
    Joona I Palaste, Jul 1, 2003
    #10
  11. Joe Bob Anonymous

    Juha Laiho Guest

    Joe Bob Anonymous <> said:
    >So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace
    >utilizing things like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet
    >used anything in the direction of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.


    As for going towards J2EE, your experience with RMI and JDBC should
    help. As at least I don't see J2EE things very tied to the HW/OS
    platform you're running on, JNI wouldn't be of much use (if my brain
    connects this correctly: Java Native Interface). Swing experience
    might be good, as it's also possible to have Swing-based clients to
    a J2EE application.

    EJBs should not be too hard for you; they build on calling things
    remotely and using JDBC.

    Servlets as such are not a hard concept, but there it's advantageous
    (or, I'd say necessary) to somewhat understand the operation (and
    limitations) of HTTP protocol. There you most possibly also need
    some knowledge of HTML.

    Then JSPs. They require good knowledge of HTML, and similar
    understanding of HTTP protocol issues as servlets do. I'd consider
    the border between servlets and JSP such that servlets are used
    where the content plays a greater role than the presentation,
    and JSP where the presentation is the prime factor (of course
    also puling in the content).

    In practice, JSP pages are first translated (compiled?) to servlets,
    so they very strongly share the same issues, but the programmers point
    of view is very different between the two.


    And adding my voice to those that say that J2EE seems to be a great
    tool, but requires a huge project and very skilled architect to be of
    any benefit.

    I don't have practical experience in J2EE, but my hunch is that if what
    you're building is a single conceptual entity, built by a team of ten
    developers, then the project is too small for J2EE. If what you're
    building is a collection of multiple separate but interacting bodies
    of software, built by several distinct teams, then J2EE could have
    an edge - if you have the capable architect.

    So, I see J2EE more bound to the development organisation than the
    actual size of the resulting software. But then, as the size of the
    software has effect on the development organisation, there's an indirect
    connection.
    --
    Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Espoo, Finland
    (GC 3.0) GIT d- s+: a C++ ULSH++++$ P++@ L+++ E- W+$@ N++ !K w !O !M V
    PS(+) PE Y+ PGP(+) t- 5 !X R !tv b+ !DI D G e+ h---- r+++ y++++
    "...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison)
    Juha Laiho, Jul 1, 2003
    #11
  12. Joe Bob Anonymous

    Rasputin Guest

    wrote in comp.lang.java.programmer:

    > I have concerns similar to those of Joe Bob. I began writing
    > simple Swing applications, then added client JDBC, wrote a large
    > app and most recently some applets. Now I find myself limited by
    > the kinds of issues that made RMI, JNI and servlets necessary.
    >
    > So, what's next? Should I learn RMI and JNI now or should
    > I go straight to servlets? I have the vague impression that
    > the newfangled servlet replaced the older RMI and JNI?


    Do you mean JNI or Jini? I'd guess the latter.
    No employers seem to have heard of it, but it does make RMI much more
    powerful. For ease of use, I'd go for EJB.
    Get a server from http://www.jboss.org
    and have a play, it's free.

    --
    Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
    Rasputin, Jul 3, 2003
    #12
  13. Daniel Dyer <> wrote in message news:<oprrmkha2kiihdmk@localhost>...
    > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:21:02 -0700, Wendy S <> wrote:
    >
    > > Joe Bob Anonymous wrote:
    > >
    > >> So, I've spent the last five or so years using Java at my workplace
    > >> utilizing things
    > >> like RMI, JNI, JDBC and Swing. However, I've not yet used anything in
    > >> the
    > >> direction of JSPs, Servlets or EJBs.
    > >> Is it just me or does it seem like all jobs being offered out there want
    > >> you to have experience in the later?

    > >
    > > I haven't been job hunting lately, but I've been using JSP & Servlets
    > > (Struts/JSTL/Tomcat) exclusively and NOT the things in your first list!
    > >
    > > No EJB's though. I read about them, asked around, and discovered that
    > > for our little app, they would most likely be overkill.


    I disagree, it's most EJB servers that are overkill! I mean there is
    nothing simpler than a stateless session bean, three methods to worry
    about, how hard is that? I go to clients sites all the time and see
    people avoiding EJBs like the plague only to end up creating something
    nearly identcial with find methods and everything. I was at a client
    site *last* week that had their own nearly identical thing, it was
    causing 300 connections to the database and thrashed through "data
    objects" like crazy -- and this was to build a *menu* at the top of
    the page!!!

    All this was done because "EJB is too much for our small app." So
    fine, use Tomcat/OpenEJB if you need quick and simple. I like OpenEJB
    as it has the simplest config I've ever seen in an EJB or Serlvet
    container and it's *built* to be small, embeddible, and lightweight.
    It doesn't bombard you with crap you don't need. If you someday have
    a hundred thousand requests per minute and need a clustered server,
    then just move to one of the big, bulky guys like Jboss, Weblogic, or
    WebSphere.

    EJB is not overkill, as a Sun API it has less interfaces than even
    JDBC, it's the implementations that overkill it! Don't blame EJB
    because you chose to use WebSphere for running your hello world app.
    It's not EJB's fault WebSphere has a few hundred meg memory footprint
    on startup. Use EJB, just pick a server that fits your needs.





    > You're right, EJBs are overkill in many situations. While EJBs have many
    > obvious advantages, often they are used because some programmer wants to
    > try something new and get the latest buzzword on his/her CV. The most
    > important thing to learn about EJBs is when not to use them. That's not to
    > say that EJBs are not useful in the right situations, but they're not a
    > silver bullet.
    >
    > Dan.
    Michael Young, Jul 10, 2003
    #13
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