Java...it's so Nineties!

Discussion in 'Java' started by John A. Bailo, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2005/tc20051213_042973.htm

    "Reports by Evans Data Corp., which does annual surveys of the
    activities of software developers, show Java use is slipping as LAMP and
    Microsoft's (MSFT) .NET technology gain traction. In North America, the
    percentage of developers who use Java as one of their principal
    programming languages declined to 47.9 in Evans' fall survey, vs. 51.4%
    in the fall of 2002. The same surveys show that while Java use is
    climbing in Asia, it's on the decline in Europe.

    Meanwhile, .NET usage increased to 54.1% from 40.3% in the same period
    in North America, and exceeded Java use in Europe and Asia. In a
    different survey series, the use of PHP in North America grew to 36.1%
    this fall, from 26% in the fall of 2003. It grew almost as quickly in
    Europe and Asia. "There's more competition out there," says Evans
    President John Andrews. "These other technologies are catching hold.
    They're biting away at [Java's] share."
    John A. Bailo, Dec 13, 2005
    #1
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  2. John A. Bailo

    Lloyd Dupont Guest

    Ho, no.....
    My (unfair) competitive advantage is gnawed away by people realizing .NET
    power ;-)

    --
    Regards,
    Lloyd Dupont

    NovaMind development team
    NovaMind Software
    Mind Mapping Software
    <www.nova-mind.com>
    "John A. Bailo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2005/tc20051213_042973.htm
    >
    > "Reports by Evans Data Corp., which does annual surveys of the activities
    > of software developers, show Java use is slipping as LAMP and Microsoft's
    > (MSFT) .NET technology gain traction. In North America, the percentage of
    > developers who use Java as one of their principal programming languages
    > declined to 47.9 in Evans' fall survey, vs. 51.4% in the fall of 2002. The
    > same surveys show that while Java use is climbing in Asia, it's on the
    > decline in Europe.
    >
    > Meanwhile, .NET usage increased to 54.1% from 40.3% in the same period in
    > North America, and exceeded Java use in Europe and Asia. In a different
    > survey series, the use of PHP in North America grew to 36.1% this fall,
    > from 26% in the fall of 2003. It grew almost as quickly in Europe and
    > Asia. "There's more competition out there," says Evans President John
    > Andrews. "These other technologies are catching hold. They're biting away
    > at [Java's] share."
    Lloyd Dupont, Dec 14, 2005
    #2
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  3. John A. Bailo

    baalbek Guest

    John A. Bailo wrote:
    < snip load of tripe >

    Unix, its so Seventies!

    Microsoft, its so Eighties!

    Linux, its so Ninieties!

    C++, its so Eighties!

    Ruby, its so Nineties!

    Shakespeare, its so Sixteen Centuryish!

    Beethoven, its so Eighteen Centuryish!

    Our daily bread, its so now!

    Our last fall-out with our girl frien, its so yesterday!
    baalbek, Dec 14, 2005
    #3
  4. John A. Bailo

    Viator Guest

    The data you have produced is not strange because outsourcing is
    shifting the focus towards asian countries.

    Amit :)
    Viator, Dec 14, 2005
    #4
  5. John A. Bailo

    BearItAll Guest

    On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:01:02 -0800, John A. Bailo wrote:

    >
    > http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2005/tc20051213_042973.htm
    >
    > "Reports by Evans Data Corp., which does annual surveys of the
    > activities of software developers, show Java use is slipping as LAMP and
    > Microsoft's (MSFT) .NET technology gain traction. In North America, the
    > percentage of developers who use Java as one of their principal
    > programming languages declined to 47.9 in Evans' fall survey, vs. 51.4%
    > in the fall of 2002. The same surveys show that while Java use is
    > climbing in Asia, it's on the decline in Europe.
    >
    > Meanwhile, .NET usage increased to 54.1% from 40.3% in the same period
    > in North America, and exceeded Java use in Europe and Asia. In a
    > different survey series, the use of PHP in North America grew to 36.1%
    > this fall, from 26% in the fall of 2003. It grew almost as quickly in
    > Europe and Asia. "There's more competition out there," says Evans
    > President John Andrews. "These other technologies are catching hold.
    > They're biting away at [Java's] share."


    I haven't used .NET for real except to try it out, but I can see it's
    attraction for programmers that have only used the likes of visual basic
    or C++ on a MS Windows platform. You can almost go ahead and write your
    application ignorant of the actual Interface. I know the .NET engine had
    security problems, I don't know if all of them have been solved.

    However, php is free. Very easy to learn and write with and you don't end
    up with bloated code in your web space. There are a lot of open source
    modules, example code, tutorials. But more important is that when you look
    arround the various php code sites what you see is the enthusiasm and
    inovation that I thought the programming world had lost.

    ..NET may well be easy to use, but I think it is very unlikely to inspire
    new generations of programmers to new heights simply because the
    programmer is too far removed from the engine. PHP can and does inspire.
    It isn't the end of all languages, it is simply that the programmer can
    get closer to the engine, feel his/her way around, but with the helping
    hand of pre-written modules and a good open communitee if you have
    problems.
    BearItAll, Dec 14, 2005
    #5
  6. BearItAll wrote:
    > I know the
    > .NET engine had security problems, I don't know if all of them have
    > been solved.


    cite?

    > However, php is free. Very easy to learn and write with and you don't
    > end up with bloated code in your web space. There are a lot of open
    > source modules, example code, tutorials. But more important is that
    > when you look arround the various php code sites what you see is the
    > enthusiasm and inovation that I thought the programming world had
    > lost.


    Java is free, .NET is free, in both cases the SDK and compilers are free
    too: you just pay for the development 'environment'. As we all know,
    real developers do not need fancy RAD designers <g>.

    Richard
    --
    http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk
    Richard Grimes, Dec 14, 2005
    #6
  7. John A. Bailo

    Alun Harford Guest

    "John A. Bailo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2005/tc20051213_042973.htm
    >
    > "Reports by Evans Data Corp., which does annual surveys of the activities
    > of software developers, show Java use is slipping as LAMP and Microsoft's
    > (MSFT) .NET technology gain traction. In North America, the percentage of
    > developers who use Java as one of their principal programming languages
    > declined to 47.9 in Evans' fall survey, vs. 51.4% in the fall of 2002. The
    > same surveys show that while Java use is climbing in Asia, it's on the
    > decline in Europe.
    >
    > Meanwhile, .NET usage increased to 54.1% from 40.3% in the same period in
    > North America, and exceeded Java use in Europe and Asia.


    Java is one of my principle programming languages.
    Therefore I know J#, as does every other Java developer on the planet
    (although some don't know it yet).

    Alun Harford

    (I also know C#, but that's beside the point)
    Alun Harford, Dec 14, 2005
    #7
  8. "Richard Grimes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > BearItAll wrote:
    >> I know the
    >> .NET engine had security problems, I don't know if all of them have
    >> been solved.

    >
    > cite?
    >
    >> However, php is free. Very easy to learn and write with and you don't
    >> end up with bloated code in your web space. There are a lot of open
    >> source modules, example code, tutorials. But more important is that
    >> when you look arround the various php code sites what you see is the
    >> enthusiasm and inovation that I thought the programming world had
    >> lost.

    >
    > Java is free, .NET is free, in both cases the SDK and compilers are free
    > too: you just pay for the development 'environment'. As we all know, real
    > developers do not need fancy RAD designers <g>.


    Ah but suddenly .NET loses its appeal when it doesn't have it's nifty GUI -
    because the appeal has always been having the code made for you :)

    --
    LTP

    :)
    Luc The Perverse, Dec 15, 2005
    #8
  9. John A. Bailo

    -this.com Guest

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy BearItAll <> wrote:
    >
    > I haven't used .NET for real except to try it out, but I can see it's
    > attraction for programmers that have only used the likes of visual basic
    > or C++ on a MS Windows platform. You can almost go ahead and write your
    > application ignorant of the actual Interface. I know the .NET engine had
    > security problems, I don't know if all of them have been solved.


    Most of my consulting work is in C/C++ and Java, but I've tried to
    stay current with .Net just to keep my skill set diverse. The
    expansion of .Net is hardly a surprise, MS has pulled pretty much
    all of their older development technologies into the .Net tent.
    Used to be a VB programmer? Now you're a VB.Net programmer. A
    good strategy actually, and it sets them up for an easier
    transition for when the market forces them to pry their
    application suite off of Windows and go platform-independent.

    As for .Net passing Java in popularity... Dice still shows about
    20 percent more Java jobs than .Net jobs, so I'm not so certain
    those claims hold water.

    Cheers,

    Thad
    -this.com, Dec 15, 2005
    #9
  10. In comp.os.linux.advocacy, -this.com
    <-this.com>
    wrote
    on Thu, 15 Dec 2005 03:03:49 +0000 (UTC)
    <dnqmel$r6p$>:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy BearItAll <> wrote:
    >>
    >> I haven't used .NET for real except to try it out, but I can see it's
    >> attraction for programmers that have only used the likes of visual basic
    >> or C++ on a MS Windows platform. You can almost go ahead and write your
    >> application ignorant of the actual Interface. I know the .NET engine had
    >> security problems, I don't know if all of them have been solved.

    >
    > Most of my consulting work is in C/C++ and Java, but I've tried to
    > stay current with .Net just to keep my skill set diverse. The
    > expansion of .Net is hardly a surprise, MS has pulled pretty much
    > all of their older development technologies into the .Net tent.
    > Used to be a VB programmer? Now you're a VB.Net programmer. A
    > good strategy actually, and it sets them up for an easier
    > transition for when the market forces them to pry their
    > application suite off of Windows and go platform-independent.
    >
    > As for .Net passing Java in popularity... Dice still shows about
    > 20 percent more Java jobs than .Net jobs, so I'm not so certain
    > those claims hold water.


    That means that the job breakdown is 54.5% Java, 45.5% .NET.
    Remember, however, that .NET isn't nearly as old as Java; it
    might be 3-4 years old at the very most.

    Therefore it's catching up rather fast. Java is The Establishment,
    ..NET the underdog (despite .NET being developed by a certain
    monopoly or near-monopoly). And then there's LAMP and small
    custom C/C++ solutions like dhttp.

    As for security problems in .NET -- I suspect that's par for the course.
    :-/

    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Thad
    >



    --
    #191,
    It's still legal to go .sigless.
    The Ghost In The Machine, Dec 15, 2005
    #10
  11. John A. Bailo

    -this.com Guest

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy The Ghost In The Machine <00suus7038.net> wrote:
    >
    > That means that the job breakdown is 54.5% Java, 45.5% .NET.
    > Remember, however, that .NET isn't nearly as old as Java; it
    > might be 3-4 years old at the very most.


    I'm also not sure how useful a comparison it is, as .Net
    encompasses multiple languages and tools, while Java is
    arguably a single language. Nevertheless, it there is
    certainly plenty of work in both camps, and either or both
    is a good thing to have in your bag of tricks.

    > Therefore it's catching up rather fast. Java is The Establishment,
    > .NET the underdog (despite .NET being developed by a certain
    > monopoly or near-monopoly). And then there's LAMP and small
    > custom C/C++ solutions like dhttp.


    The multi-language nature of .Net and Microsoft's desktop share
    will likely give it the edge in raw deployment numbers, but I
    expect Java will hold the lead in the big SOA / middle tier
    projects for quite some time. MS will lead on the front end
    and Java on the back end. You will probably find plenty of
    environments that will contain an mix of both for the
    foreseeable future.

    Cheers,

    Thad
    -this.com, Dec 15, 2005
    #11
  12. -this.com wrote:

    > The multi-language nature of .Net and Microsoft's desktop share
    > will likely give it the edge in raw deployment numbers, but I
    > expect Java will hold the lead in the big SOA / middle tier
    > projects for quite some time. MS will lead on the front end
    > and Java on the back end. You will probably find plenty of
    > environments that will contain an mix of both for the
    > foreseeable future.


    Very insightful interpretation...one that I will accept.
    John A. Bailo, Dec 15, 2005
    #12
  13. John A. Bailo

    chrisv Guest

    baalbek wrote:

    >John A. Bailo wrote:
    >< snip load of tripe >


    Don't feed the Bailo troll.
    chrisv, Dec 15, 2005
    #13
  14. In comp.os.linux.advocacy, John A. Bailo
    <>
    wrote
    on Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:55:20 -0800
    <>:
    > -this.com wrote:
    >
    >> The multi-language nature of .Net and Microsoft's desktop share
    >> will likely give it the edge in raw deployment numbers, but I
    >> expect Java will hold the lead in the big SOA / middle tier
    >> projects for quite some time. MS will lead on the front end
    >> and Java on the back end. You will probably find plenty of
    >> environments that will contain an mix of both for the
    >> foreseeable future.

    >
    > Very insightful interpretation...one that I will accept.


    Ditto here. :) This is why SOAP and other such efforts
    will be useful, since both Java and .NET support it.

    --
    #191,
    It's still legal to go .sigless.
    The Ghost In The Machine, Dec 15, 2005
    #14
  15. John A. Bailo

    Cos Guest

    Well, in case of Java - you don't need to pay a dime even for
    development environment:
    - there's NetBeans
    - there's Java Stidio Enterprise
    - there's Java Creator for Web apps development
    These are available from Sun with no charge. I believe others do
    similar stuff.

    So, my point is that Java development is getting bigger, especially
    with the open source movement, accepted by big folks developing Java to
    gain some market share :)

    Cos
    Cos, Dec 15, 2005
    #15
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