Java Management Insanity

J

JavaEnquirer

I've been assigned to work on a new Java development project. I have a
few years Java development experience but in another organisation. I
think I have started to become institutionalised and have lost my
ability to judge. Please help! We are building for us at least, a large
and complex system spanning 9 months. This is how the project team is
being organised, does it sound sensible?

2 managers ( no Java experience, limited software dev management
experience. One is a system support officer, the other a hands-off
general IT manager )
2 "consultants" ( myself and another with some Java experience )
1 programmer ( 2 years Access )
1 assistant programmer ( wide range of dev experience spanning 20 years
)
1 student ( some Java in college )

As a a group, the seven of us span 5 levels of management hierarchy and
any "significant decisions" i.e. buying a few books, how we organise
training involves a 6th. All capital spending has to go to a 7th level
for ratification.

Has anyone ever come across such a steep management hierarchy before
now in software development?

Can anyone point me towards any documents that address these issues and
recommend how best to organise Java projects? Or, is that too broad a
question?!!

What do you think works best, steep or flat hierarchies?
 
J

jan V

and complex system spanning 9 months. This is how the project team is
being organised, does it sound sensible?

2 managers ( no Java experience, limited software dev management
experience. One is a system support officer, the other a hands-off
general IT manager )
2 "consultants" ( myself and another with some Java experience )
1 programmer ( 2 years Access )
1 assistant programmer ( wide range of dev experience spanning 20 years
)
1 student ( some Java in college )

The person(s) responsible for this setup is an arsehole who knows nothing
about management nor software development.

Go talk to that person, pointing to any software engineering authority
focusing on management aspects of teams (i.e. show him the classic: Fred
Brooks' "Mythical Man Month"). If this guy refuses to thoroughly overhaul
the team structure, just resign in a month or two... that ought to give the
arsehole some negative feedback from which he may or may not learn.. and it
will allow you to join a better firm. You're wasting your precious time
working in such a cloud cuckoo atmosphere.
 
A

Alex

Wow! You are lucky!
My regular project is:
9 managers, 5 manager assitants, 7 writers of requirements, 2 for
scope, 5 testers, 2 configuration managers, 2 architects, 5 dbas, 1 web
designer.
I'm not talking about random people on the meetings.
And me alone to "write" application.
The greates achivement of all meetings (excluding changing manager's
staff) was:
"I had understand that you asked the question and I was proud to myself
that I understood it was technical question!"

I'm not kidding. That's my experience for last 5 years.
 
C

cbongior

This sorta situation is extremely common. I have 5 years into it with
C, C++ and java and the bussiness is the same regardless of the
technology.

My very first project ever consisted of a Nuclear Scientist, a
Elementary Education major, a mechanical engineer, and a couple of EEs
and a CS guy. This was '99 though and if you could spell 'C' you had a
job.

There is simply zero respect for the SW development profession. Get use
to it or get into management. You will never be given any real respect
as a developer.

Christian
http://christian.bongiorno.org/resume.pdf
 
E

Eric Sosman

Alex said:
Wow! You are lucky!
My regular project is:
9 managers, 5 manager assitants, 7 writers of requirements, 2 for
scope, 5 testers, 2 configuration managers, 2 architects, 5 dbas, 1 web
designer.
I'm not talking about random people on the meetings.
And me alone to "write" application.
The greates achivement of all meetings (excluding changing manager's
staff) was:
"I had understand that you asked the question and I was proud to myself
that I understood it was technical question!"

I'm not kidding. That's my experience for last 5 years.

See http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/ozites/oz0336.htm
 
J

Joan

JavaEnquirer said:
I've been assigned to work on a new Java development project. I have a
few years Java development experience but in another organisation. I
think I have started to become institutionalised and have lost my
ability to judge. Please help! We are building for us at least, a large
and complex system spanning 9 months. This is how the project team is
being organised, does it sound sensible?

2 managers ( no Java experience, limited software dev management
experience. One is a system support officer, the other a hands-off
general IT manager )
2 "consultants" ( myself and another with some Java experience )
1 programmer ( 2 years Access )
1 assistant programmer ( wide range of dev experience spanning 20 years
)
1 student ( some Java in college )

As a a group, the seven of us span 5 levels of management hierarchy and
any "significant decisions" i.e. buying a few books, how we organise
training involves a 6th. All capital spending has to go to a 7th level
for ratification.

Has anyone ever come across such a steep management hierarchy before
now in software development?

Can anyone point me towards any documents that address these issues and
recommend how best to organise Java projects? Or, is that too broad a
question?!!

What do you think works best, steep or flat hierarchies?

You are probably not working in a perfect world where the boss can pick
anyone at any cost with immediate availability from anyplace with any
knowledge
and any experience and, as long as were at it, any body shape ;-)

I would say that the people that were chosen were what is available. Be
thankful
that the company doesn't fire you to hire someone else better suited to the
job.
 

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