Java sucks, Perl Rules.

Discussion in 'Java' started by atbusbook@aol.com, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. Guest

    in java to set a variable to a string mutable requires using the string
    bulder class. but in perl you can just do this
    $a = "hello";

    in java to print that string you have to do this

    System.out.println(a);

    but in perl you just do this

    print $a;

    java is a staticly typed single pardigram languige thats why it sucks
     
    , Jan 27, 2006
    #1
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  2. wrote in
    news::

    > in java to set a variable to a string mutable requires using the
    > string bulder class.


    When will trolls learn how to spell?

    > java is a staticly typed single pardigram languige thats why it sucks


    Ditto.

    Please don't feed the troll.

    Sinan
    --
    A. Sinan Unur <>
    (reverse each component and remove .invalid for email address)

    comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
    http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
     
    A. Sinan Unur, Jan 27, 2006
    #2
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  3. wrote:
    > in java to set a variable to a string mutable requires using the string
    > bulder class. but in perl you can just do this
    > $a = "hello";
    >
    > in java to print that string you have to do this
    >
    > System.out.println(a);
    >
    > but in perl you just do this
    >
    > print $a;
    >
    > java is a staticly typed single pardigram languige thats why it sucks


    i'll have to direct my manager to this post :).
     
    it_says_BALLS_on_your forehead, Jan 27, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    You nead a 100 meg IDE because the languige is so bad that you nead
    code completion and code check because of a crummy languge
     
    , Jan 27, 2006
    #4
  5. Hal Rosser Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You nead a 100 meg IDE because the languige is so bad that you nead
    > code completion and code check because of a crummy languge
    >

    you must have java mixed up with VB.net
    we (can) use dos edit to write code, compile, and run java programs.

    Anyway, we were all wondering what you thought about java, and by george,
    you were nice enough to post your opinion. Don't forget to tell the other
    99,000+- newsgroups as well, and let us know when you have written an office
    suite in Perl (like OpenOffice.org has in Java). Have fun in your adventures
    in perl.
     
    Hal Rosser, Jan 27, 2006
    #5
  6. Daniel Dyer Guest

    On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:47:20 -0000, Hal Rosser <>
    wrote:

    > Anyway, we were all wondering what you thought about java, and by george,
    > you were nice enough to post your opinion. Don't forget to tell the other
    > 99,000+- newsgroups as well, and let us know when you have written an
    > office
    > suite in Perl (like OpenOffice.org has in Java). Have fun in your
    > adventures
    > in perl.


    Er, your point is sound but your example's not. The majority of
    OpenOffice.org is written in C++. It is possible to write add-ons in
    Java, Python and one or two other languages though.

    Dan.

    --
    Daniel Dyer
    http://www.dandyer.co.uk
     
    Daniel Dyer, Jan 27, 2006
    #6
  7. Hal Rosser Guest


    >
    > Er, your point is sound but your example's not. The majority of
    > OpenOffice.org is written in C++. It is possible to write add-ons in
    > Java, Python and one or two other languages though.
    >
    > Dan.


    oops - my bad. I thought open office.org was written in Java since it
    originated at Sun.
    Yeah I almost tried Jython to check it out.
    OTOH perl is a great language, I especially like its treatment of Regular
    expressions and the way you can throw a variable into a double-quoted
    string. But its not made for the larger projects.
     
    Hal Rosser, Jan 27, 2006
    #7
  8. wrote:
    > in java to set a variable to a string mutable requires using the
    > string bulder class. but in perl you can just do this
    > $a = "hello";


    $a has a special meaning in sort(), therefore it is poor practice to use is
    as a generic variable.
    You may want to pick a different name.

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Jan 27, 2006
    #8
  9. Daniel Dyer Guest

    On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:31:47 -0000, Hal Rosser <>
    wrote:

    >
    >>
    >> Er, your point is sound but your example's not. The majority of
    >> OpenOffice.org is written in C++. It is possible to write add-ons in
    >> Java, Python and one or two other languages though.
    >>
    >> Dan.

    >
    > oops - my bad. I thought open office.org was written in Java since it
    > originated at Sun.


    Open Office has its roots in StarOffice, which was originally developed by
    the German company Star Division, who were later purchased by Sun. Star
    Office still exists as a commercial version of Open Office with some added
    features.

    Corel produced a Java office suite in the late 90s. It was not a big
    success. It would be much more feasible now with the huge strides Java
    has made in terms of performance and GUI toolkits, not to mention the much
    more capable machines we have these days.

    Dan.

    --
    Daniel Dyer
    http://www.dandyer.co.uk
     
    Daniel Dyer, Jan 27, 2006
    #9
  10. Pickleman Guest

    > wrote:
    > > in java to set a variable to a string mutable requires using the
    > > string bulder class. but in perl you can just do this
    > > $a = "hello";

    >
    > $a has a special meaning in sort(), therefore it is poor practice to use is
    > as a generic variable.
    > You may want to pick a different name.
    >
    > jue


    Yeah, that's what $foo was designed for.
     
    Pickleman, Jan 28, 2006
    #10
  11. There are benefits to String being immutable. You can concat String
    instances with a + making new String instances along the way.

    As for printing, you can:

    final static private void print(String msg) {
    System.out.println(msg);
    }

    and then write:
    // assuming s is a String
    print(s);

    Opalinski

    http://www.geocities.com/opalpaweb/
     
    opalinski from opalpaweb, Jan 28, 2006
    #11
  12. Guest

    i did not know that how about $foo
     
    , Jan 28, 2006
    #12
  13. Guest

    why dose java have to be so wordy. it is the opisit of lisp and you
    spend more time typeing than thinking
     
    , Jan 28, 2006
    #13
  14. wrote:
    > i did not know that how about $foo


    You did not know _what_?
    If you had quoted an appropriate context -as has been a proven custom for
    two decades- then people might have been able to know what you are talking
    about.

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Jan 28, 2006
    #14
  15. Java is not wordy in the sense of having a large syntax tree with many
    options. C++ is three times larger (i have not checked this, but read
    it in article). Java does use english words instead of single
    character indicators. I like that aspect. It makes java code is
    readable. I like how often java code is readable and reusable, even if
    made by less than mediocre programmers.

    Besides there is little difference in the quantity of key presses
    someone expert at text editing needs to carry out between the various
    languages.

    Opalinski

    http://www.geocities.com/opalpaweb/
     
    opalinski from opalpaweb, Jan 28, 2006
    #15
  16. Patrick May Guest

    " opalinski from opalpaweb" <> writes:
    > Java is not wordy in the sense of having a large syntax tree with
    > many options. C++ is three times larger (i have not checked this,
    > but read it in article).


    Do you have a cite for this? In my experience, for a given
    amount of functionality C++ is somewhat less verbose than Java.

    > Besides there is little difference in the quantity of key presses
    > someone expert at text editing needs to carry out between the
    > various languages.


    This is not the case. C++ and Java are probably of the same
    order of magnitude in terms of verbosity. This is partly due to the
    fact that Java was designed to provide a certain level of comfort to
    attract C++ programmers and partly due to their similar static type
    systems. Perl and other "scripting" languages can be significantly
    less verbose.

    The most expressive language I've used is Common Lisp. This is a
    factor of both its type system and its macro facility that supports
    creation of syntactic abstractions.

    Regards,

    Patrick

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    S P Engineering, Inc. | The experts in large scale distributed OO
    | systems design and implementation.
    | (C++, Java, Common Lisp, Jini, CORBA, UML)
     
    Patrick May, Jan 28, 2006
    #16
  17. Roedy Green Guest

    On 28 Jan 2006 08:04:12 -0800, wrote, quoted or
    indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >why dose java have to be so wordy. it is the opisit of lisp and you
    >spend more time typeing than thinking


    Because it was originally designed to program set-top boxes and the
    guys who designed it were primarily interested in the JVM, not the
    Java language. They were not application programmers. The mindless
    verbosity of Java does not start piling up until you write a gui with
    listeners and you have 10 pages of code to display single screen.

    The solution is not to maintain such code as ASCII text, but as a tree
    structure where you can open and close various nodes to see detail.
    much would be done by tick-off boxes rather than code. E.g. select
    fonts, colours, borders, icons etc for various components.

    the high level "routine" would be the display itself. You would right
    click on components to get details about them and their events.

    see http://mindprod.com/projects/scid.html
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
     
    Roedy Green, Jan 28, 2006
    #17
  18. > Do you have a cite for this? In my experience, for a given
    > amount of functionality C++ is somewhat less verbose than Java.


    I'm talking about the size of the grammar, the complexity of the
    language. I did not locate the article I read previously but found
    some other comparisons of java and C++ grammars. This is an extract:

    "because development of Java grammar parser is not a simple task (even
    through Java grammar is simpler and less ambiguous than C++ grammar)"

    from

    http://www.ispras.ru/~knizhnik/jlint/ReadMe.htm

    I'm sure java's grammar grew in size with the addition of enums,
    generics, etc. I wonder which grammer is larger now and by how much.


    > This is not the case. C++ and Java are probably of the same
    > order of magnitude in terms of verbosity.


    I'm not talking about the resulting source code's verbosity. I'm
    talking about the amount of keys (raw count) I need to hit in order to
    get a lot of java code characters on screen. I am comparing this
    quantity to the amount of keys I need to hit to get, admitadly shorter,
    perl code. Being a competant user of editors I frequently end up with
    considerably more characters on screen then number of keys hit. I'm
    saying that number of characters and verbosity are very minor
    considerations when it comes to generating code fast.

    Opalinski

    http://www.geocities.com/opalpaweb/
     
    opalinski from opalpaweb, Jan 28, 2006
    #18
  19. wrote:

    > java is a staticly typed single pardigram languige thats why it sucks


    Can someone tell me why we are comparing apples to oranges? If the
    title of this thread was "Java Sucks, C++ Rules," then I can see having
    some kind of intelligent debate.

    Otherwise, silly statements such as:

    "Java is a statically typed language, therefore it sucks."

    are completely stupid IMHO. As Hal pointed out, you wouldn't use Perl
    to write the next version of Star Office, Microsoft Office, or Fred's
    Office. Perl is simply an excellent tool for extracting information
    from files using regular expressions. We all know what can be
    developed using Java.

    It all boils down to selecting the best language to solve a particular
    task.

    So let's send this troll packing, and move on to discussing Java
    issues.

    Go away, troll...

    Mike.

    --- ACGNJ Java Users Group (http://www.javasig.org/)
     
    Michael Redlich, Jan 29, 2006
    #19
  20. Patrick May Guest

    " opalinski from opalpaweb" <> writes:
    > > This is not the case. C++ and Java are probably of the same
    > > order of magnitude in terms of verbosity.

    >
    > I'm not talking about the resulting source code's verbosity. I'm
    > talking about the amount of keys (raw count) I need to hit in order
    > to get a lot of java code characters on screen. I am comparing this
    > quantity to the amount of keys I need to hit to get, admitadly
    > shorter, perl code. Being a competant user of editors I frequently
    > end up with considerably more characters on screen then number of
    > keys hit. I'm saying that number of characters and verbosity are
    > very minor considerations when it comes to generating code fast.


    You're making my point for me: Java is more verbose. The fact
    that you've come up with techniques to avoid some of the negative
    consequences of that verbosity indicates just how bad the situation
    is. If you spent the same amount of time adjusting your editing style
    for Perl, for example, is there any reason why you wouldn't see a
    similar reduction in the amount of typing required to deliver similar
    functionality?

    Regards,

    Patrick

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    S P Engineering, Inc. | The experts in large scale distributed OO
    | systems design and implementation.
    | (C++, Java, Common Lisp, Jini, CORBA, UML)
     
    Patrick May, Jan 29, 2006
    #20
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