Java sucks, Perl Rules.

R

Robert M. Gary

There are benefits of a lossly typed langauge, of course there are
costs too. Slower performance, less error detecting ability, less
ability to have robust datatype. Its a cost/benefit decision. In some
cases, Perl is the best choice, in others, Java is the best choice, in
others assembly is the best choice. It just depends on what you are
doing.

-Robert
 
M

Michael Redlich

Robert said:
There are benefits of a lossly typed langauge, of course there are
costs too. Slower performance, less error detecting ability, less
ability to have robust datatype. Its a cost/benefit decision. In some
cases, Perl is the best choice, in others, Java is the best choice, in
others assembly is the best choice. It just depends on what you are
doing.

Hi Robert:

Thank you! I was trying to point that out with my very first post
(January 28) in this extremely long-winded thread:

"It all boils down to selecting the best language to solve a particular
task."

I feel much better knowing that someone else understands this!
Bartender, a Sam Adams for Robert and me! I'm buyin'...

It's not about which language is *better* than the other, it's all
about knowing the benefits that each language brings to the table.
Isn't this why most of know more than one language???

Sincerely,

Mike.
A "senior," i.e., 44-year old, non-Perl programmer. :)
--- ACGNJ Java Users Group (http://www.javasig.org/)
 
M

Matt Garrish

Michael Redlich said:
"It all boils down to selecting the best language to solve a particular
task."

It's not about which language is *better* than the other, it's all
about knowing the benefits that each language brings to the table.
Isn't this why most of know more than one language???

Then perhaps in the future you might take your own words to heart and learn
a few things about a language before pronouncing what it is and is not. That
no one language is perfect in every situation was never under debate, only
your misstatement about Perl.

Matt
 
M

Michael Redlich

Matt said:
Then perhaps in the future you might take your own words to heart and learn
a few things about a language before pronouncing what it is and is not. That
no one language is perfect in every situation was never under debate, only
your misstatement about Perl.

Here we go again...

Do I need to slap myself on the wrist again? I did that already,
remember? Guilty as charged, 30 lashes with a wet noodle! Are we
happy?

And to be honest, there were some childish remarks thrown about within
this long-winded thread. Go back and read some of them...

I felt I knew enough about Perl to make my original point. My
apologies for not providing an appropriate dissertation about Perl.

The computer club that sponsors my Java Users Group could use a Perl
Users Group. Are any of you Perl folks living in the New Jersey area
interested in leading it? I'd be happy to attend meetings to learn
more about the language. I am being totally serious here. Send me an
e-mail off-line to (e-mail address removed) if you're interested in learning
more...

Mike.

--- ACGNJ Java Users Group (http://www.javasig.org/)
 
R

Robert Klemme

Michael said:
Thank you! I was trying to point that out with my very first post
(January 28) in this extremely long-winded thread:

"It all boils down to selecting the best language to solve a
particular task."

Without reading the whole thread: the subject doesn't seem to fit well
with this statement. Just a hint for next time.

Cheers

robert
 
B

Bernard El-Hagin

Robert Klemme said:
Without reading the whole thread: the subject doesn't seem to fit
well with this statement. Just a hint for next time.


Michael Redlich neither started this thread, nor devised its Subject. Being able to follow who wrote
what in a thread is a useful ability to possess. Just a hint for next time.
 
R

Robert Klemme

Bernard said:
Michael Redlich neither started this thread, nor devised its Subject.
Being able to follow who wrote what in a thread is a useful ability
to possess. Just a hint for next time.

That's why I added the disclaimer but of course you are right. Being to
lazy to read a whole thread is indeed a bad excuse. I'm sorry.

Regards

robert
 
J

jboadas

Please anyone can tell me how to make a Perl Applet.?
Perl web start ?
Perl Virtual Machine ?

Comparing perl with java doesnt make sense, maybe compare perl vs
python and python has much better in everything that Perl.
 
P

Paul Lalli

Michael said:
The computer club that sponsors my Java Users Group could use a Perl
Users Group. Are any of you Perl folks living in the New Jersey area
interested in leading it? I'd be happy to attend meetings to learn
more about the language. I am being totally serious here. Send me an
e-mail off-line to (e-mail address removed) if you're interested in learning
more...

Er, I think CLPM's own Jeff 'japhy' Pinyan already leads a NJ Perl
Mongers group, no?

http://princeton.pm.org/

Paul Lalli
 
M

Michael Redlich

Paul said:
Er, I think CLPM's own Jeff 'japhy' Pinyan already leads a NJ Perl
Mongers group, no?

http://princeton.pm.org/

Paul:

Thanks for making me aware of that user group. I don't see why there
can't be more than one Perl Users Group in New Jersey.

The Java Users Group that I facilitate has been around for five years,
and is sponsored by a non-profit organization, ACGNJ (which has been
around for 30 years). The meetings are located in Scotch Plains, NJ.

There was a Central Jersey Java Users Group (http://www.cjjug.com/)
around for about a year-and-a-half (11/2002 - 5/2004), but they
disbanded due to conditions about their meeting place. They were
holding meetings in Bridgewater, NJ, about 20 minutes west of Scotch
Plains. However, their presentations were more abstract, that is, they
didn't review/analyze code like we do. The web site is still up and
running in case you're interested.

Yakov Fain (http://java.sys-con.com/author/2514fain.htm) just started a
Java Users Group in Princeton, right near where Jeff Pinyan is/was
(their last meeting was this past September) running his Perl Users
Group. This is about an hour away from Scotch Plains, so this makes
things flexible geographically.

So a complimentary Perl Users Group sponsored by ACGNJ in Scotch Plains
would be a nice addition to the variety of ACGNJ-sponsored user groups.

Whadda y'all think???

I'm also on the ACGNJ board of directors, so I can bring up this idea
as new business at the next board meeting (assuming, of course, someone
is interested in leading it.

Mike.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ACGNJ Java Users Group
http://www.javasig.org/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
M

Matt Garrish

jboadas said:
Please anyone can tell me how to make a Perl Applet.?

Applets? I thought Flash had finally buried those things... : )
Perl web start ?

Until Microsoft takes interest in knocking it off it's not worth paying
attention to...
Perl Virtual Machine ?
Parrot...


Comparing perl with java doesnt make sense, maybe compare perl vs
python and python has much better in everything that Perl.

Right and Python's no Ruby, and Ruby's no <insert Perl knockoff here>... : )

If you're going to troll, at least try and put some effort in it.

Matt
 
R

rcyoung

Python, Java, Perl, LISP, Algol, Pascal, RPG, PL/1, Basic, Fortran,
Cobol, Assembly...does it really matter? If you can do the job, no
matter what the language used, does it really matter what you use so
long as mandated requirements of speed, maintainability, size,
platform, etc are met? People get so "tied up" is their own little
"box" ...I've been tinkering in IT/techie stuff for 53 yrs, and I have
learned over this time that the one mantra which is eternally true is
"the more things change, the more they stay the same".
 
T

Tail_Spin

Ya perl might be good but I'd like to see you create an applet with it,
lmao.
I'm not much on java but I do like the fact that you can make applets which
are a
very powerful tool IMHO.
I've not done any programming in perl but coming from a lot of C programming
I've
jumped right into PHP and from what I can see, PHP blows away PERL as far as
server side programming languages go.

I think the apples to oranges comparison is appropriate here, PERL and Java
are two
languages that are so totally different in their intended purpose,
functionality and reason for existence
that it is senseless to try and compare the two of them. All languages have
their strong points
and situations that they are best at. Instead of useless comparisons, why
not just use a specific language for the programming situation that it is
best suited for. I just wrote a little ticker (like a stock ticker) for a
website. I used
PHP to parse info and write a data file on the server, from some third party
HTML files, used javaScript to determine which of two differing applet
versions to load in a webpage, used a Java applet (downloaded to the client
computer
so it would run fast) to read the PHP data file. Three different languages,
all doing tasks that they are best suited for,
and all functioning to produce a product that the customer likes and
couldn't give two bits about what language you used
to get the job done!!!

I love C! Only 32 keywords to the language, tons of libraries to chose from
and very fast. Java on the other hand
seems to require tons of reading and FAQs to find out how to get a specific
API function to work if you are not
familiar with it. And as far as speed goes, ... it sucks the big one!!!
But having said that, I can't imagine trying to
create an applet in C, lol

Garry
 
J

jboadas

Applets? I thought Flash had finally buried those things... : )

Try to access a database from flash....
Try to make standalone app from flash...
You have to make flash dependent to another app: C/C++,Java,Python, Etc

Lately Microsoft Opinion doesnt matter very much, maybe GNU opinion to
me. And I think Microsoft is a giant Troll.

Parror is dead ...

Perl is similar to Python in capabilities but you dont know it...

the seem to you, think before write.
 
U

umptious

I presume you meant to say "didn't".

Indeed. (And also, thank you for a polite and non-defensive answer.)
Perl and C are fundamentally different languages, especially for
example in their approaches to arrays (including strings).

Well, yes. And both are different to Smalltalk, Scheme, Ruby, Python,
CLOS, Haskell, Erlang, Forth, Eiffel, Ada, Java. And all of these are
somewhat different to each other.

But for everyone of these except Perl, the equivalent of the Llama
teaches you what the equivalent of a struct is...

And, come to think of it, so do the Llama's rivals.

Why should the book that is uniquely deficient be the one that is
recommened in the FAQ?
Pointers
are very much required in C to do array manipulation. In Perl
however one can quite happily expand arrays, unshift data to the
start of an array or splice material into the middle of an array
by just using built in functions without any requirement for
references or thoughts of the mechanics of memory allocation.

But you can't create the sort of meaningful, coherent, problem
illuminating data structures that even beginning programmers using
other languages take for granted if you are programming in Perl - not
unless you know what references are.

The Llama book fails it readers in this regard. Being able to build
user defined problem specific data structures is as fundamental tool of
modern programming as defining subroutines. Leaving this out is
abominable - it cheats readers, and makes Perl look like a much less
powerful language than it is.
Such array manipulation features combined with hashes obviates the
need for objects in many cases where C would require structures
and pointers.

I'm sorry - I was talking about data structures: objects are a
different thing again.
To take a trivial example... you have data in the format of a unix
password file and wish to sort, modify, or print different fields.
In C one would automatically think of using an array of structures,
each structure containing an individual entry. Pointers would be
required. In Perl, a simple array of scalars would be sufficient
without any use of references whatsoever (or, if a field such as
'username' was unique to each entry, a hash of scalars).

Yes, one can construct an arbitary trivial example for which user
defined data structures are not necessary to produce a solution. In
fact, one could always do without them - there are Olde Fortran tricks
for this - but no programmer in his right mind would use a programming
language that seeminly lacked them when he could be using Ruby or
Python instead.

I consider the Markov chain example in Kernighan and Pike to be trivial
- and that requires references to have a tolerable solution in Perl.
Thus in teaching the basics of these languages, it is horses for
courses.

Umm... you seem to be arguing that Perl should be confined to being
used for pathetic 20 toy problems like the one above, and that Llama
should reflect this? ...I thought that was PHP was for.

Seriously, the need for data structures using references appears even
in very short programs - the K&P example was only 20 lines.

If Perlers are going to recommend a book that makes it look like Perl
lacks this basic ability, then I still suggest that they at least be
polite when they guests from other language communities reach te
predictable conclusion that Perl is a toy language - and prepare
themselves for more new projects going to technologies other than Perl.
 
M

Monique Y. Mudama

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.java.programmer.] On
2006-02-07, (e-mail address removed) penned:
Umm... you seem to be arguing that Perl should be confined to being
used for pathetic 20 toy problems like the one above, and that Llama
should reflect this? ...I thought that was PHP was for.

Hey now -- leave my beloved PHP out of this!
 

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