Java vs MS .net, which one is better ?

Discussion in 'Java' started by Mr Alphaque, Jul 28, 2003.

  1. Mr Alphaque

    Mr Alphaque Guest

    Hi
    I am planning to open a software company to develop client-server
    apps and web applications for my client. Now, i am in a difficult
    situation to determine what is the best platform i should use to
    develop the application for the end users. Should I use Java or MS.Net
    technology...

    Basically, I have these criteria in our mind before I decide which
    platform I should adopt :
    1. Ease of use - which one is easy to learn, java or MS .net ?
    2. Speed - which one execute faster Java or .net under a server or a
    PC?
    3. Integration issues, - Can a .JSP web pagejava object call other MS
    COM object, DLL that are written using Visual C++ or VB and vice-versa
    (means a MS ASP page can call to a Java objects ?)
    4. Portability - Can java run in different platform like Unix , MS
    Windows and etc ? I heard MS.Net can do that
    5. Programmer's productivity - Compare to MS .net visual studio, can
    someone develop Java apps easily ? Is there a user development
    environment available for Java developer ?
    6 Debug-ability - how easy to debug a java apps problem compare to MS
    ..Net apps ?

    I would appreciate anyone can give me some idea here..thx in advance

    Regards..
     
    Mr Alphaque, Jul 28, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:36:34 -0700, Mr Alphaque wrote:

    > Hi
    > I am planning to open a software company to develop client-server
    > apps and web applications for my client. Now, i am in a difficult
    > situation to determine what is the best platform i should use to develop
    > the application for the end users. Should I use Java or MS.Net
    > technology...
    >
    > Basically, I have these criteria in our mind before I decide which
    > platform I should adopt :
    > 1. Ease of use - which one is easy to learn, java or MS .net ?


    You are comparing apples and oranges. Java is a language, .net is a
    framework. You could ask which one is easier, Java and C#, or Java and
    VB.net. Or, conversely, you could compare EJBs with corresponding parts of
    ..net. And so on.

    Overall, my guess is that they aren't really all that different in terms
    of the learning curve. I know that Java is fairly easy to learn. The
    biggest decision for you is whether you need flexibility. MS.net only runs
    on a few systems. Java runs on pretty much any system under the sun.

    > 2. Speed - which one execute faster Java or .net under a server or a PC?


    Both execute nearly at native speed. Depends on your application, of
    course.

    > 3. Integration issues, - Can a .JSP web pagejava object call other MS
    > COM object, DLL that are written using Visual C++ or VB and vice-versa
    > (means a MS ASP page can call to a Java objects ?)


    Yes, I have done it both ways. You will need third-party libraries for
    that (I used J-Integra). Also, you will need to use DCOM; plain COM won't
    work here.

    > 4. Portability - Can java run in different platform like Unix , MS
    > Windows and etc ? I heard MS.Net can do that


    Java can. MS.Net cannot. There are ports to other platforms, but Microsoft
    has a history of dropping support for those. So expect MS.Net to disappear
    for anything but Windows in the foreseeable future.

    > 5. Programmer's productivity - Compare to MS .net visual studio, can
    > someone develop Java apps easily ? Is there a user development
    > environment available for Java developer ?


    There are probably more development environments for Java than for MS.Net.
    I think productivity is probably similar.

    > 6 Debug-ability - how easy to debug a java apps problem compare to MS
    > .Net apps ?


    Probably quite similar. The main problem with debugging is that,
    especially in Web applications, quite a few problems are load-related and
    therefore difficult to track down. In that case, only logging will help
    you, not traditional debug tools.

    --
    Keep American Families united! Support H.R. 539 and H.R. 832
    For more information, see http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
     
    Ingo Pakleppa - ingo at kkeane dot com, Jul 28, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Mr Alphaque

    Mark Preston Guest

    On 27 Jul 2003 21:36:34 -0700, (Mr Alphaque)
    wrote:

    > I am planning to open a software company to develop client-server
    >apps and web applications for my client. Now, i am in a difficult
    >situation to determine what is the best platform i should use to
    >develop the application for the end users. Should I use Java or MS.Net
    >technology...
    >

    Different issues - .NET is indeed a platform, but Java is a _language_
    and not a platform. A Java platform, for instance, would be J2EE
    rather than Java itself.
    >
    >1. Ease of use - which one is easy to learn, java or MS .net ?
    >

    Depends what you already know. From scratch, personally I would say
    Java is easier to learn.
    >
    >2. Speed - which one execute faster Java or .net under a server or a
    >PC?
    >

    No real difference.
    >
    >3. Integration issues, - Can a .JSP web pagejava object call other MS
    >COM object, DLL that are written using Visual C++ or VB and vice-versa
    >(means a MS ASP page can call to a Java objects ?)
    >

    Integration with Windows - .NET is integrated, Java is not. However,
    Java does provide integration tools such as JINI.
    >
    >4. Portability - Can java run in different platform like Unix , MS
    >Windows and etc ? I heard MS.Net can do that
    >

    Opposite side of the coin to integration - Java is portable, .NET is
    not. In this case though, .NET does _not_ have the tools to make is
    portable either.
    >
    >5. Programmer's productivity - Compare to MS .net visual studio, can
    >someone develop Java apps easily ? Is there a user development
    >environment available for Java developer ?
    >

    Dear god, yes. Java is far better equipped with a huge range of
    developer tools rather than the not-quite-ready-really state of .NET.
    >
    >6 Debug-ability - how easy to debug a java apps problem compare to MS
    >.Net apps ?
    >

    Again, a bit apples and oranges. IMHO, Java is far easier to debug -
    but others may well differ.
    --
    Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
    Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk
     
    Mark Preston, Jul 28, 2003
    #3
  4. On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:27:28 -0400, Sudsy wrote:

    > Mr Alphaque wrote:
    >> Hi

    > <snip>
    >> 4. Portability - Can java run in different platform like Unix , MS
    >> Windows and etc ? I heard MS.Net can do that

    > <snip>
    >
    > I think you've got it backwards. Java is platform-agnostic, .NET is
    > limited to M$ platforms. I don't expect to see .NET for Linux or HP-UX
    > or MVS any time soon ... ;-)


    That actually exists - Microsoft actually encouraged these open source
    projects. The catch is, who knows how long M$ will continue to do that?
    Quite possibly, they'll pull the plug as soon as .Net has caught on.

    --
    Keep American Families united! Support H.R. 539 and H.R. 832
    For more information, see http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
     
    Ingo Pakleppa - ingo at kkeane dot com, Jul 28, 2003
    #4
  5. Mr Alphaque

    Grant Wagner Guest

    Mark Preston wrote:

    > >5. Programmer's productivity - Compare to MS .net visual studio, can
    > >someone develop Java apps easily ? Is there a user development
    > >environment available for Java developer ?
    > >

    > Dear god, yes. Java is far better equipped with a huge range of
    > developer tools rather than the not-quite-ready-really state of .NET.


    Java may have a huge range of developer tools, but .NET is hardly
    "not-quite-ready-really" with VS.NET. The Visual Studio .NET environment is
    a robust and productive development environment.

    <url: http://www.activewin.com/reviews/software/devl/vsnet2003/index.shtml
    /> provides a good overview of the latest enhancements to VS.NET 2003.

    > >6 Debug-ability - how easy to debug a java apps problem compare to MS
    > >.Net apps ?
    > >

    > Again, a bit apples and oranges. IMHO, Java is far easier to debug -
    > but others may well differ.


    Again, Visual Studio .NET provides a built-in debugger that makes the
    process of debugging entirely painless.

    --
    | Grant Wagner <>
     
    Grant Wagner, Jul 28, 2003
    #5
  6. Mr Alphaque

    Anonymous Guest

    Please bear in mind the comments so far have been more or less from Java
    supporters. I would consider myself neutral.
    I've done seven years of Java and two of C#.

    > > I am planning to open a software company to develop client-server
    > >apps and web applications for my client. Now, i am in a difficult
    > >situation to determine what is the best platform i should use to
    > >develop the application for the end users. Should I use Java or MS.Net
    > >technology...
    > >

    > Different issues - .NET is indeed a platform, but Java is a _language_
    > and not a platform. A Java platform, for instance, would be J2EE
    > rather than Java itself.
    > >
    > >1. Ease of use - which one is easy to learn, java or MS .net ?
    > >

    > Depends what you already know. From scratch, personally I would say
    > Java is easier to learn.


    Of course if you want to program for .NET just learn Visual Basic .Net, Java
    (sorry J#), or C#..... which would you like to learn?
    I would say the Microsoft platform is easier, especially with the GUI
    wizards built into SharpDevelop (GPL) or Microsoft Visual Studio....

    > >
    > >2. Speed - which one execute faster Java or .net under a server or a
    > >PC?
    > >

    > No real difference.


    True.

    > >
    > >3. Integration issues, - Can a .JSP web pagejava object call other MS
    > >COM object, DLL that are written using Visual C++ or VB and vice-versa
    > >(means a MS ASP page can call to a Java objects ?)
    > >

    > Integration with Windows - .NET is integrated, Java is not. However,
    > Java does provide integration tools such as JINI.


    ..Net has a huge range of features to port Java to it, vice versa is much
    more difficult.

    > >
    > >4. Portability - Can java run in different platform like Unix , MS
    > >Windows and etc ? I heard MS.Net can do that
    > >

    > Opposite side of the coin to integration - Java is portable, .NET is
    > not. In this case though, .NET does _not_ have the tools to make is
    > portable either.


    Hmmmm this is a falsehood. .Net is portable, just look at the DotGNU and
    go-mono websites for cross platform .NET.
    SharpDevelop is a free IDE to build C# (and VB .NET) with.

    > >
    > >5. Programmer's productivity - Compare to MS .net visual studio, can
    > >someone develop Java apps easily ? Is there a user development
    > >environment available for Java developer ?
    > >

    > Dear god, yes. Java is far better equipped with a huge range of
    > developer tools rather than the not-quite-ready-really state of .NET.
    > >

    Proof .NET is not ready? .NET had XML parsing *built in* before Sun got 1.4
    out of the door.
    Java has a larger range of IDEs yes, but no standardized one (Eclipse,
    Intellij seem to be the best).
    Try and get a free Sun J2ME JRE for Pocket PC... nope impossible. .NET is
    already available for this platform and has been the last 2 years.

    > >6 Debug-ability - how easy to debug a java apps problem compare to MS
    > >.Net apps ?
    > >

    > Again, a bit apples and oranges. IMHO, Java is far easier to debug -
    > but others may well differ.


    Bear in mind this is a personal opinion. I find debugging much easier in
    Visual Studio with C#.

    One drawback .NET does have is it still uses old school coordinate based
    GUIs in Visual Studio, not dynamic layout managers like Java, but this can
    be solved by getting (free) third party layout managers.

    > --
    > Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
    > Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk



    B Brown. Cumbria, Lancaster Uni Computer Science graduate (just thought I'd
    mention I'm in the same region ;)
     
    Anonymous, Jul 28, 2003
    #6
  7. Mr Alphaque

    Tim Tyler Guest

    Ingo Pakleppa - ingo at kkeane dot com <> wrote:
    : On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:27:28 -0400, Sudsy wrote:

    :> I think you've got it backwards. Java is platform-agnostic, .NET is
    :> limited to M$ platforms. I don't expect to see .NET for Linux or HP-UX
    :> or MVS any time soon ... ;-)

    : That actually exists - Microsoft actually encouraged these open source
    : projects. The catch is, who knows how long M$ will continue to do that?
    : Quite possibly, they'll pull the plug as soon as .Net has caught on.

    There's the "Shared Source CLI" - on BSD and OSX.
    ....and there's MONO - which runs on several flavours of Linux.

    None of these are very close to being ".NET", though - and nor do
    they run on HP-UX or MVS.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/
     
    Tim Tyler, Jul 28, 2003
    #7
  8. Mr Alphaque

    Mark Preston Guest

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:16:08 GMT, Grant Wagner
    <> wrote:

    >Java may have a huge range of developer tools, but .NET is hardly
    >"not-quite-ready-really" with VS.NET. The Visual Studio .NET environment is
    >a robust and productive development environment.
    >

    I freely admit to having not tried it - all I am going off is the
    reviews in my monthly journal and the fact that the goalposts keep
    moving. Of course, that may well be more to do with extending already
    good features or with the problem that other (ie. Non-Microsoft)
    companies are having the temerity to make .NET available for other
    platforms - such as Borland, for example.
    >
    >Again, Visual Studio .NET provides a built-in debugger that makes the
    >process of debugging entirely painless.
    >

    A platform is inherently a different issue that a language and the
    language is always easier to debug than a wide-scope platform. I
    seriously doubt that .NET has changed that.
    --
    Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
    Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk
     
    Mark Preston, Jul 29, 2003
    #8
  9. Mr Alphaque

    Tukla Ratte Guest

    On 29 Jul 2003 03:54:35 -0700, (Mr Alphaque)
    wrote:

    > Hi all,
    > thanks for all the advices and sharings here, that really helps me a
    > lot..I welcome any more ideas to flow in.
    > I secured some money to hire some developers to run the software
    > development business,


    A few more developers will be able to buy food soon. That's good to
    hear these days.

    > i just don't know what is the right camp i
    > should join so i can hire a right expertise here, java or .Net ?


    Why don't you tell us what your business goals are? Server
    development? User interfaces? Small or large businesses?
    Cross-platform or Windows-centric? I dunno, stuff like that.

    > That
    > is the reason i posted this message. BTW, i found out this similar
    > discussion as well from :
    > http://www.javalobby.org/threadMode3.jsp?message=91768602&thread=8436&forum=61
    > It seems like both of them have pros and cons..I am really headache
    > now :-(


    Wait till you start having to manage your developers. <eg>

    --
    Tukla, Squeaker of Chew Toys
    Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism
     
    Tukla Ratte, Jul 29, 2003
    #9
  10. Mr Alphaque

    Jon A. Cruz Guest

    Ingo Pakleppa - ingo at kkeane dot com wrote:
    > On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:27:28 -0400, Sudsy wrote:
    >
    > That actually exists - Microsoft actually encouraged these open source
    > projects. The catch is, who knows how long M$ will continue to do that?


    I've seen nothing to indicate that MS encouraged these efforts. At most,
    they seem to be biding their time, and I've read things from them that
    imply that they'll weigh their options when the time comes.


    > Quite possibly, they'll pull the plug as soon as .Net has caught on.
    >


    Exactly.
     
    Jon A. Cruz, Jul 30, 2003
    #10
  11. On 29 Jul 2003 20:50:03 -0700, Mr Alphaque <> wrote:

    --<snip>--

    > My customers are using different platforms, some of them are using
    >Microsoft (windows centric) and some of them are using cross platforms
    >such as Unix, Linux. Databases they use are mostly MS SQL and Oracle.


    --<snip>--

    I think you start at the wrong abstraction layer. Get you a software
    engineer. Model your requirements and then model your solution. When
    you have the specs generate the code for your target platforms. Look
    at things like MDA instead of focussing too early on the target platform.

    HTH,
    Andreas
     
    Andreas Rueckert, Jul 30, 2003
    #11
  12. Mr Alphaque

    _.-= Guest

    Hi Alphaque!

    If there's one thing Microsoft stands for in development, its cheap
    'labour'. You can get a Microsoft Network Administrator for about half the
    price of a Unix Network Administrator (which may not be the same in the
    region you are in). You can find so many Microsoft solutions development
    professionals that you can even let them develop the whole package for you
    and let one cool-but-geeky dude test it and then pay them the contractual
    amount. You have to make sure you get the contracts right though because you
    have to state that the payment will be after ALL the bugs have been
    eliminated - there are many cases where the developers seem happy with half
    the money and then tend to disappear.

    If you do happen to work in a Unix/Linux environment, introduce a
    Windows-based server and write up everything using ASP. That's a cross
    platform solution for you if you're into 3-tier-development. There just has
    to be a catch though - the licensing for Windows and any development tools
    you may be using.

    With open source solutions, you can still hire some one to get the work done
    but what you save on licensing will have to be spent on salaries,
    considering that the client bears the cost of licensing at the server-side.

    Hope this helps and good luck!

    Best Regards,
    NiCk EvErEady


    "Mr Alphaque" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi Tukla,
    > Actually my business goal is to develop client-server applications
    > and web applications to solve my customer problems. My customers are
    > mainly from manuafacturing compnay (MNC - multinational company),
    > finance institutions and Small-medium enterprises. For manufacturing
    > company, my products are mainly for equipment diagnosis and for
    > finance institutions, my products are for mortgage or loan
    > evaluations. I need to develop the whole application suite for them
    > which include front-end interface, middleware and backends database
    > (3-tiers architecture)
    >
    > My customers are using different platforms, some of them are using
    > Microsoft (windows centric) and some of them are using cross platforms
    > such as Unix, Linux. Databases they use are mostly MS SQL and Oracle.
    >
    > Besides those selection criteria i listed early , I also need to make
    > sure if I deploy my applications to the customers site, they won't be
    > able to view my source codes so in the future , they will still come
    > back to me for any changes they need, with that , i can ensure i will
    > have a continuous source of income.
    >
    > thanks and regards..
    >
    >
    > (Tukla Ratte) wrote in message

    news:<>...
    > > On 29 Jul 2003 03:54:35 -0700, (Mr Alphaque)
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > > Hi all,
    > > > thanks for all the advices and sharings here, that really helps me a
    > > > lot..I welcome any more ideas to flow in.
    > > > I secured some money to hire some developers to run the software
    > > > development business,

    > >
    > > A few more developers will be able to buy food soon. That's good to
    > > hear these days.
    > >
    > > > i just don't know what is the right camp i
    > > > should join so i can hire a right expertise here, java or .Net ?

    > >
    > > Why don't you tell us what your business goals are? Server
    > > development? User interfaces? Small or large businesses?
    > > Cross-platform or Windows-centric? I dunno, stuff like that.
    > >
    > > > That
    > > > is the reason i posted this message. BTW, i found out this similar
    > > > discussion as well from :
    > > >

    http://www.javalobby.org/threadMode3.jsp?message=91768602&thread=8436&forum=
    61
    > > > It seems like both of them have pros and cons..I am really headache
    > > > now :-(

    > >
    > > Wait till you start having to manage your developers. <eg>
     
    _.-=, Jul 30, 2003
    #12
  13. Mr Alphaque

    _.-= Guest

    Hi Ingo!

    What's the software escrow phenomenon?

    -NiCk EvErEady

    "Ingo Pakleppa - ingo at kkeane dot com" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:50:03 -0700, Mr Alphaque wrote:
    >
    > > Hi Tukla,
    > > Actually my business goal is to develop client-server applications
    > > and web applications to solve my customer problems. My customers are
    > > mainly from manuafacturing compnay (MNC - multinational company),
    > > finance institutions and Small-medium enterprises. For manufacturing
    > > company, my products are mainly for equipment diagnosis and for finance
    > > institutions, my products are for mortgage or loan evaluations. I need
    > > to develop the whole application suite for them which include front-end
    > > interface, middleware and backends database (3-tiers architecture)
    > >
    > > My customers are using different platforms, some of them are using
    > > Microsoft (windows centric) and some of them are using cross platforms
    > > such as Unix, Linux. Databases they use are mostly MS SQL and Oracle.

    >
    > That would strongly point towards using Java.
    >
    > > Besides those selection criteria i listed early , I also need to make
    > > sure if I deploy my applications to the customers site, they won't be
    > > able to view my source codes so in the future , they will still come
    > > back to me for any changes they need, with that , i can ensure i will
    > > have a continuous source of income.

    >
    > Both Java and .NET compile the code. In Java, you can in addition also
    > obfuscate it to foil decompilation attempts (but that is fairly
    > pointless).
    >
    > Also, note that in my experience, access to source code can substantially
    > increase your sales. Customers will want access to the source code unless
    > you can demonstrate the staying power of Microsoft or the like. When it
    > comes to mission critical applications, people tend to not like being
    > stuck with an application and the only company who has the source code
    > went out of business. This is one of the main reasons that Linux is
    > getting so popular.
    >
    > Fortunately, there is a solution for this problem that usually satisfies
    > both parties; it's known as Software Escrow.
    >
    > --
    > Keep American Families united! Support H.R. 539 and H.R. 832
    > For more information, see http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
    >
     
    _.-=, Jul 30, 2003
    #13
  14. _.-=<[ { E v E r E a d y } ]>=-._ wrote:

    > With open source solutions, you can still hire some one to get the work done
    > but what you save on licensing will have to be spent on salaries,


    But you get more "value for money." Better solutions, more
    competent personnel, for lower/same cost.

    > considering that the client bears the cost of licensing at the server-side.


    Clients also bear labour costs, depending on the pricing model.

    Manish

    --
    Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
    phone (work) +91-80-51073488
     
    Manish Jethani, Jul 30, 2003
    #14
  15. Mr Alphaque wrote:
    > Hi
    > I am planning to open a software company to develop client-server
    > apps and web applications for my client. Now, i am in a difficult
    > situation to determine what is the best platform i should use to
    > develop the application for the end users. Should I use Java or MS.Net
    > technology...
    >
    > Basically, I have these criteria in our mind before I decide which
    > platform I should adopt :
    > 1. Ease of use - which one is easy to learn, java or MS .net ?
    > 2. Speed - which one execute faster Java or .net under a server or a
    > PC?
    > 3. Integration issues, - Can a .JSP web pagejava object call other MS
    > COM object, DLL that are written using Visual C++ or VB and vice-versa
    > (means a MS ASP page can call to a Java objects ?)
    > 4. Portability - Can java run in different platform like Unix , MS
    > Windows and etc ? I heard MS.Net can do that
    > 5. Programmer's productivity - Compare to MS .net visual studio, can
    > someone develop Java apps easily ? Is there a user development
    > environment available for Java developer ?
    > 6 Debug-ability - how easy to debug a java apps problem compare to MS
    > .Net apps ?
    >
    > I would appreciate anyone can give me some idea here..thx in advance
    >


    If you do not know the answers to these questions you should not make
    the decision. My best advice -- hire a CTO you can trust and let him or
    her make the decisions about the best technology to use.

    Ray
     
    Raymond DeCampo, Aug 2, 2003
    #15
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Replies:
    8
    Views:
    1,926
  2. ge0rge
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    546
  3. IchBin
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    425
    IchBin
    May 1, 2005
  4. Hal Rosser
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    479
  5. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    249
    Mark Fitzpatrick
    Jun 12, 2007
Loading...

Share This Page