java

Discussion in 'Java' started by rajujohn100@gmail.com, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. Guest

    what is object? what is object reference?
    , Oct 10, 2009
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Pitch Guest

    In article <6659af75-3099-4e86-a80c-ed293f3cadb7
    @u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>, says...
    >
    > what is object? what is object reference?


    parts of memory


    --
    stirr your cofee properly
    Pitch, Oct 11, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Lew Guest

    says...
    >> what is object? what is object reference?


    Pitch wrote:
    > parts of memory


    Given the completeness and accuracy of rossum's answer, one has to wonder why
    you bothered to give this useless and actually inaccurate answer twelve hours
    later, Pitch.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Oct 11, 2009
    #3
  4. Rzeźnik Guest

    On 11 Paź, 06:11, Lew <> wrote:
    > says...
    >
    > >> what is object? what is object reference?

    > Pitch wrote:
    > > parts of memory

    >
    > Given the completeness and accuracy of rossum's answer, one has to wonder why
    > you bothered to give this useless and actually inaccurate answer twelve hours
    > later, Pitch.
    >
    > --
    > Lew


    Sure, but one still wonders why rossum bothered to give such detailed
    answer for questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone. He
    must be really patient man. Cheers.
    Rzeźnik, Oct 11, 2009
    #4
  5. Rzeźnik wrote:
    > On 11 Paź, 06:11, Lew <> wrote:
    >> says...
    >>
    >>>> what is object? what is object reference?

    >> Pitch wrote:
    >>> parts of memory

    >> Given the completeness and accuracy of rossum's answer, one has to wonder why
    >> you bothered to give this useless and actually inaccurate answer twelve hours
    >> later, Pitch.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Lew

    >
    > Sure, but one still wonders why rossum bothered to give such detailed
    > answer for questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone. He
    > must be really patient man. Cheers.


    The original questions didn't come across as rude or arrogant to me.
    Written by someone with limited English skills, perhaps, but not rude.

    I thought the answer was very good, and maybe rossum decided to do it as
    a favour to himself, basically as an exercise in explaining basic
    concepts. I'm not sure I could have done it so well.

    AHS
    Arved Sandstrom, Oct 11, 2009
    #5
  6. Lew Guest

    says...
    >>>>> what is object? what is object reference?


    Pitch wrote:
    >>>> parts of memory


    Lew wrote:
    >>> Given the completeness and accuracy of rossum's answer,
    >>> one has to wonder why you bothered to give this useless
    >>> and actually inaccurate answer twelve hours later ...


    Rzeźnik wrote:
    >> Sure, but one still wonders why rossum bothered to give such detailed
    >> answer for questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone. He
    >> must be really patient man. Cheers.


    The question had a neutral and inquisitive tone, only. Your assessment of the
    tone lacks substantiation.

    Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > The original questions didn't come across as rude or arrogant to me.
    > Written by someone with limited English skills, perhaps, but not rude.
    >
    > I thought the answer was very good, and maybe rossum decided to do it as
    > a favour to himself, basically as an exercise in explaining basic
    > concepts. I'm not sure I could have done it so well.


    +1

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Oct 11, 2009
    #6
  7. Rzeźnik Guest

    On 11 Paź, 17:00, Lew <> wrote:
    > Rzeźnik wrote:
    > >> Sure, but one still wonders why rossum bothered to give such detailed
    > >> answer for questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone. He
    > >> must be really patient man. Cheers.

    >
    > The question had a neutral and inquisitive tone, only.  Your assessment of the
    > tone lacks substantiation.


    Hi
    I'll answer you both in one post if you don't mind.
    Substantiation mostly belongs to the author of original question, but
    nevertheless - how would you react if someone came up on a street and
    asked you sth along 'time. what is it?' without any 'excuse me/hi
    etc'?

    >
    > Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > > The original questions didn't come across as rude or arrogant to me.
    > > Written by someone with limited English skills, perhaps, but not rude.

    >
    > > I thought the answer was very good, and maybe rossum decided to do it as
    > > a favour to himself, basically as an exercise in explaining basic
    > > concepts. I'm not sure I could have done it so well.

    >
    > +1


    The answer was very good - I never doubted - I'd say it was TOO good.
    I think politeness is not a function of language spoken or written.
    One should be aware how to be polite in his native language and come
    up with something similar in language used in conversation (even if it
    was not 100% correct the intention 'd remain), or, find out how to
    express it in foreign language. We all have access to dictionaries,
    guides etc if in doubt. If the author did not bother, why should we?
    Anyway, I think this is EOT because we are drifting away from group's
    topic. Thanks for answers.

    >
    > --
    > Lew
    Rzeźnik, Oct 11, 2009
    #7
  8. Lew Guest

    Rzeźnik wrote:
    >>>> Sure, but one still wonders why rossum bothered to give such detailed
    >>>> answer for questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone. He
    >>>> must be really patient man. Cheers.


    Lew wrote:
    >> The question had a neutral and inquisitive tone, only. Your assessment of the
    >> tone lacks substantiation.


    Rzeźnik wrote:
    > I'll answer you both in one post if you don't mind.
    > Substantiation mostly belongs to the author of original question, but


    That's utter BS, especially in this case, since others did not react as you did.

    Burden of proof is on the accuser. The OP has no need to respond to bogus
    claims. The fact that others don't see the "apparently rude and arrogant
    tone" is sufficient to show that it's your problem, not his. You passed
    judgment without justification. Now you should graciously admit your mistake.

    > nevertheless - how would you react if someone came up on a street and
    > asked you sth [sic] along [sic] 'time. what is it?' without any 'excuse me/hi
    > etc' [sic]?


    Bogus argument, total straw man, and besides, that all depends. If they spoke
    haltingly as if unfamiliar with English I'd react as rossum did. I wouldn't
    get all snarky and accuse such a person of having an "apparently rude and
    arrogant tone" unless it were I being rude and arrogant.

    --
    Lew
    Do not quote the sig.
    Lew, Oct 11, 2009
    #8
  9. Rzeźnik Guest

    On 11 Paź, 19:06, Lew <> wrote:
    > Rzeźnik wrote:
    > >>>> Sure, but one still wonders why rossum bothered to give such detailed
    > >>>> answer for questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone. He
    > >>>> must be really patient man. Cheers.

    > Lew wrote:
    > >> The question had a neutral and inquisitive tone, only.  Your assessment of the
    > >> tone lacks substantiation.

    > Rzeźnik wrote:
    > > I'll answer you both in one post if you don't mind.
    > > Substantiation mostly belongs to the author of original question, but

    >
    > That's utter BS, especially in this case, since others did not react as you did.


    Yeah, I've been wondering why.

    >
    > Burden of proof is on the accuser.  The OP has no need to respond to bogus
    > claims.  The fact that others don't see the "apparently rude and arrogant
    > tone" is sufficient to show that it's your problem, not his.  You passed
    > judgment without justification.  Now you should graciously admit your mistake.


    Justification lies in author's words (or their form) - you have to
    admit that it was not the most 'elegant' way to ask a question. as for
    my mistake - that is how I feel, if you, or anyone else, do not feel
    that way, that is fine with me. I have been perhaps arguing too much,
    if so, I am sorry. The final note about rudeness I might make here is
    that rossum's effort has not been thanked for so far - I am just
    wondering whether it will ever be.

    >
    > > nevertheless - how would you react if someone came up on a street and
    > > asked you sth [sic] along [sic] 'time. what is it?' without any 'excuse me/hi
    > > etc' [sic]?

    >


    What do you mean by these [sic]s? :)


    > Bogus argument, total straw man, and besides, that all depends.  If they spoke
    > haltingly as if unfamiliar with English I'd react as rossum did.  I wouldn't
    > get all snarky and accuse such a person of having an "apparently rude and
    > arrogant tone" unless it were I being rude and arrogant.
    >


    Maybe yes, maybe no - argument might not be very good indeed, because
    when you talk to someone face to face you can judge their behavior by
    nonverbal means. But also when writing you have more time to prepare
    your sentence, check it with dictionary etc. so your argument can be
    declined as well. Anyway, make your judgment, I have made (and stated)
    mine already.

    > --
    > Lew
    > Do not quote the sig.
    Rzeźnik, Oct 11, 2009
    #9
  10. Lew Guest

    Lew wrote:
    >>> nevertheless - how would you react if someone came up on a street and
    >>> asked you sth [sic] along [sic] 'time. what is it?' without any 'excuse me/hi
    >>> etc' [sic]?


    Rzeźnik wrote:
    > What do you mean by these [sic]s? :)


    The standard thing that "sic" means - that the grammatical, spelling and
    typographical errors in the quote were from the original and not a
    transcription error.
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic>

    >> --
    >> Lew
    >> Do not quote the sig.


    --
    Lew
    This sig (signature passage) copyright (c) 2009 by Lew Bloch. Reproduction of
    this sig in any form electronic or otherwise is strictly forbidden without the
    express written permission of the author.
    Lew, Oct 11, 2009
    #10
  11. Lew Guest

    Rzeźnik wrote:
    > The final note about rudeness I might make here is
    > that rossum's effort has not been thanked for so far - I am just
    > wondering whether it will ever be.


    ???

    rossum's answer has been multiply acknowledged so far, and thanks are kind of
    a waste of newsgroup bandwidth in that they don't really add new information
    or insight.

    "Given the completeness and accuracy of rossum's answer ..."
    - LB

    "I thought the answer was very good, and maybe rossum decided to do it as a
    favour to himself, basically as an exercise in explaining basic concepts. I'm
    not sure I could have done it so well.
    - AHS

    As for why no one else thought the question was rude besides you, well, it's
    because it wasn't.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Oct 11, 2009
    #11
  12. Roedy Green Guest

    On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:19:21 -0700 (PDT), ""
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
    said :

    >what is object? what is object reference?


    see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/object.html
    http://mindprod.com/jgloss/reference.html

    Such basics are best learned from an introductory text book. If you
    don't have access to that, there are some material available on line.

    See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    I advocate that super programmers who can juggle vastly more complex balls than average guys can, should be banned, by management, from dragging the average crowd into system complexity zones where the whole team will start to drown.
    ~ Jan V.
    Roedy Green, Oct 11, 2009
    #12
  13. Rzeźnik Guest

    On 11 Paź, 22:24, Lew <> wrote:
    > Rzeźnik wrote:
    > > The final note about rudeness I might make here is
    > > that rossum's effort has not been thanked for so far - I am just
    > > wondering whether it will ever be.

    >
    > ???
    >
    > rossum's answer has been multiply acknowledged so far,


    By not even once.

    and thanks are kind of
    > a waste of newsgroup bandwidth in that they don't really add new information
    > or insight.


    Are they, really?
    You see, there are IMO two ways to express your gratitude for
    newsgroups' members answers. The first one, used mostly when you do
    not expect long conversation, just one-shot answer, is to write, for
    example, 'thanks in advance' in your first post. The second, if long
    conversation is expected, you simply add it along the lines somewhere
    (for example, "Oh, ok, I did not know that. From now on I'll write
    better programs" :) ). You can argue that it does not add new
    information, neither does spam and our conversation, but it shows that
    you treat newsgroup as something more than your homework solver -
    especially when you are newbie asking basic questions which you either
    should 'google' or learn from a textbook for beginners.


    >
    > As for why no one else thought the question was rude besides you, well, it's
    > because it wasn't.


    Ok, let it be. By the way, have you seen a once famous thread on one
    of Java Sun Forums about media players? Let me quote few excerpts:
    "hi i need a complete source code for a video media player.... "
    "I want code of media player in java if possible plz send to me "
    .... here someone sends some basic code for playing media files in
    Java ...
    "i need complete source code for Media Player in Java "
    "thank u
    Please send a complete source code for MediaPlayer which will be run
    in JDK1.5.0 "

    So, what we have here? "a neutral and inquisitive tone, only",
    right? ;-)

    And I'm sincerely sorry for quoting your sig :))
    Rzeźnik, Oct 11, 2009
    #13
  14. Lew Guest

    Rzeźnik wrote:
    > And I'm sincerely sorry for quoting your sig :))


    Hey, I'm just playing with you.

    If anyone is rude and arrogant, well, I can definitely relate.

    --
    Lew
    :)
    Lew, Oct 11, 2009
    #14
  15. Rzeźnik Guest

    On 11 Paź, 23:30, Lew <> wrote:
    > Rzeźnik wrote:
    > > And I'm sincerely sorry for quoting your sig :))

    >
    > Hey, I'm just playing with you.


    I noticed, see *smileys* :)

    >
    > If anyone is rude and arrogant, well, I can definitely relate.
    >


    Sure, but I can't help but think that your attitude somehow leaves the
    door open for aforementioned anti-social behavior

    [Here goes the sig which I am not gonna quote]
    Rzeźnik, Oct 11, 2009
    #15
  16. In article
    <>,
    <> wrote:

    Re: "... questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone."

    > Yeah, I've been wondering why.


    The OP's question, "what is object? what is object reference?" was
    certainly terse, perhaps even abrupt, but not intrinsically rude or
    arrogant. The writer's name and diction suggest a native language other
    than English. In particular, the indefinite article has been elided. A
    native speaker might have asked, "What is an object? What is an object
    reference?"

    Similarly, I infer that your native language is not English, yet I see
    from your contribution* in another thread that you take considerable
    care to write clear, idiomatic English. I sense that you set a high
    standard for yourself. Possibly, this biased your perception.

    > The final note about rudeness I might make here is that rossum's
    > effort has not been thanked for so far - I am just wondering whether
    > it will ever be.


    Several others have acknowledged rossum's contribution. I would add that
    his clear explication is foundational to understanding a very frequently
    asked question: How does Java pass arguments?

    I look forward to referencing his diagram, although I will probably
    substitute an inferior automotive analogy. :)

    *<http://code.google.com/p/coroutines/w/list>
    --
    John B. Matthews
    Please trim signature lines appearing below the "-- ".
    John B. Matthews, Oct 11, 2009
    #16
  17. Rzeźnik Guest

    On 12 Paź, 00:21, "John B. Matthews" <> wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    >
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > Re: "... questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone."
    >
    > > Yeah, I've been wondering why.

    >
    > The OP's question, "what is object? what is object reference?" was
    > certainly terse, perhaps even abrupt, but not intrinsically rude or
    > arrogant. The writer's name and diction suggest a native language other
    > than English. In particular, the indefinite article has been elided. A
    > native speaker might have asked, "What is an object? What is an object
    > reference?"


    Yes, I noticed and I brought forward my answer in one of previous
    posts:
    "I think politeness is not a function of language spoken or written.
    One should be aware how to be polite in his native language and come
    up with something similar in language used in conversation (even if it
    was not 100% correct the intention 'd remain), or, find out how to
    express it in foreign language. We all have access to dictionaries,
    guides etc if in doubt."


    >
    > Similarly, I infer that your native language is not English,


    You are right

    yet I see
    > from your contribution* in another thread that you take considerable
    > care to write clear, idiomatic English. I sense that you set a high
    > standard for yourself. Possibly, this biased your perception.
    >


    Thank you very much, I am delighted to hear your compliment.
    Yet I do not think that 'standards' explain everything. I am not a
    linguistic genius at all, you can tell seeing all the mistakes I've
    made, but when I write for English-speaking audience or to English-
    speaking newsgroup I try to do my best 'cause I want to be understood
    and, also, to show respect for all readers (especially when it is a
    question). That's basic thing. Having written that I came to
    conclusion that maybe my accusation of rudeness was too harsh. You are
    right, rudeness is more contrived. It is merely laziness.

    > > The final note about rudeness I might make here is that rossum's
    > > effort has not been thanked for so far - I am just wondering whether
    > > it will ever be.

    >
    > Several others have acknowledged rossum's contribution.


    I was talking about the OP, he should be the most thankful one.

    I would add that
    > his clear explication is foundational to understanding a very frequently
    > asked question: How does Java pass arguments?


    Yes, I've seen the frequent mistake of mixing up notions of pass-by-
    value and pass-by-reference when it comes to Java. Perhaps it is
    because you can modify properties of an object via passed reference,
    so it vaguely looks like pass-by-reference (because you can 'touch'
    something on the outside
    ). The unnatural distinction between reference types and primitives
    does not help either. But I think very simple experiment can solve all
    doubts - it suffices to try to modify the _reference_ inside a
    function so that it points to sth else and observe what's happening
    when function is exited.



    >
    > I look forward to referencing his diagram, although I will probably
    > substitute an inferior automotive analogy. :)
    >


    What is it? :)
    Rzeźnik, Oct 12, 2009
    #17
  18. Rzeznik wrote:
    > Sure, but one still wonders why rossum bothered to give such
    > detailed
    > answer for questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone. He
    > must be really patient man. Cheers.


    Or he let one of his Universal Robots answer.
    Mike Schilling, Oct 12, 2009
    #18
  19. Pitch Guest

    In article <harlss$qnt$>, says...
    >
    > says...
    > >> what is object? what is object reference?

    >
    > Pitch wrote:
    > > parts of memory

    >
    > Given the completeness and accuracy of rossum's answer, one has to wonder why
    > you bothered to give this useless and actually inaccurate answer twelve hours
    > later, Pitch.


    It may halp th op. And it's not inaccurate. Objects are data. Data is
    memory. Object variables (references) are named memory locations which
    contain address of object's data.

    --
    stirr your cofee properly
    Pitch, Oct 12, 2009
    #19
  20. [OT] Re: java

    In article
    <>,
    Rzeênik <> wrote:

    > > I look forward to referencing his diagram, although I will probably
    > > substitute an inferior automotive analogy. :)

    >
    > What is it? :)


    It's an uninformative comparison to an unrelated industry, but that's
    not important now.

    See also, Airplane! <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airplane!>:

    Jimmy: Can I ask you a question?
    Striker: What is it?
    Jimmy: It's an interrogative statement used to test knowledge, but
    that's not important now...

    <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080339/quotes>
    <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083530/quotes>

    Or maybe <http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/autos.asp>.

    --
    John B. Matthews
    trashgod at gmail dot com
    <http://sites.google.com/site/drjohnbmatthews>
    John B. Matthews, Oct 12, 2009
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Novice
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,146
    Mike Schilling
    Jul 19, 2003
  2. Michael Kintner
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    845
    Michael Kintner
    Nov 30, 2003
  3. Ilias Lazaridis
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    569
    Ilias Lazaridis
    Feb 1, 2005
  4. manish sahu
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    1,003
  5. Isaac
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    370
    Isaac
    Jan 20, 2011
Loading...

Share This Page