R
rajujohn100
what is object? what is object reference?
P
Pitch
parts of memory
L
Lew
(e-mail address removed) says...
Given the completeness and accuracy of rossum's answer, one has to wonder why
you bothered to give this useless and actually inaccurate answer twelve hours
later, Pitch.
Given the completeness and accuracy of rossum's answer, one has to wonder why
you bothered to give this useless and actually inaccurate answer twelve hours
later, Pitch.
R
Rzeźnik
Sure, but one still wonders why rossum bothered to give such detailed
answer for questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone. He
must be really patient man. Cheers.
A
Arved Sandstrom
Rzeźnik said:
The original questions didn't come across as rude or arrogant to me.
Written by someone with limited English skills, perhaps, but not rude.
I thought the answer was very good, and maybe rossum decided to do it as
a favour to himself, basically as an exercise in explaining basic
concepts. I'm not sure I could have done it so well.
AHS
L
Lew
(e-mail address removed) says...
The question had a neutral and inquisitive tone, only. Your assessment of the
tone lacks substantiation.
+1
The question had a neutral and inquisitive tone, only. Your assessment of the
tone lacks substantiation.
Arved said:
+1
R
Rzeźnik
Hi
I'll answer you both in one post if you don't mind.
Substantiation mostly belongs to the author of original question, but
nevertheless - how would you react if someone came up on a street and
asked you sth along 'time. what is it?' without any 'excuse me/hi
etc'?
The answer was very good - I never doubted - I'd say it was TOO good.
I think politeness is not a function of language spoken or written.
One should be aware how to be polite in his native language and come
up with something similar in language used in conversation (even if it
was not 100% correct the intention 'd remain), or, find out how to
express it in foreign language. We all have access to dictionaries,
guides etc if in doubt. If the author did not bother, why should we?
Anyway, I think this is EOT because we are drifting away from group's
topic. Thanks for answers.
L
Lew
Rzeźnik said:
That's utter BS, especially in this case, since others did not react as you did.
Burden of proof is on the accuser. The OP has no need to respond to bogus
claims. The fact that others don't see the "apparently rude and arrogant
tone" is sufficient to show that it's your problem, not his. You passed
judgment without justification. Now you should graciously admit your mistake.
Bogus argument, total straw man, and besides, that all depends. If they spoke
haltingly as if unfamiliar with English I'd react as rossum did. I wouldn't
get all snarky and accuse such a person of having an "apparently rude and
arrogant tone" unless it were I being rude and arrogant.
R
Rzeźnik
Yeah, I've been wondering why.
Justification lies in author's words (or their form) - you have to
admit that it was not the most 'elegant' way to ask a question. as for
my mistake - that is how I feel, if you, or anyone else, do not feel
that way, that is fine with me. I have been perhaps arguing too much,
if so, I am sorry. The final note about rudeness I might make here is
that rossum's effort has not been thanked for so far - I am just
wondering whether it will ever be.
What do you mean by these [sic]s?
Maybe yes, maybe no - argument might not be very good indeed, because
when you talk to someone face to face you can judge their behavior by
nonverbal means. But also when writing you have more time to prepare
your sentence, check it with dictionary etc. so your argument can be
declined as well. Anyway, make your judgment, I have made (and stated)
mine already.
L
Lew
Lew said:
Rzeźnik said:What do you mean by these [sic]s?
The standard thing that "sic" means - that the grammatical, spelling and
typographical errors in the quote were from the original and not a
transcription error.
L
Lew
Rzeźnik said:
???
rossum's answer has been multiply acknowledged so far, and thanks are kind of
a waste of newsgroup bandwidth in that they don't really add new information
or insight.
"Given the completeness and accuracy of rossum's answer ..."
- LB
"I thought the answer was very good, and maybe rossum decided to do it as a
favour to himself, basically as an exercise in explaining basic concepts. I'm
not sure I could have done it so well.
- AHS
As for why no one else thought the question was rude besides you, well, it's
because it wasn't.
R
Roedy Green
see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/object.html
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/reference.html
Such basics are best learned from an introductory text book. If you
don't have access to that, there are some material available on line.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
I advocate that super programmers who can juggle vastly more complex balls than average guys can, should be banned, by management, from dragging the average crowd into system complexity zones where the whole team will start to drown.
~ Jan V.
R
Rzeźnik
By (e-mail address removed) not even once.
and thanks are kind of
Are they, really?
You see, there are IMO two ways to express your gratitude for
newsgroups' members answers. The first one, used mostly when you do
not expect long conversation, just one-shot answer, is to write, for
example, 'thanks in advance' in your first post. The second, if long
conversation is expected, you simply add it along the lines somewhere
(for example, "Oh, ok, I did not know that. From now on I'll write
better programs"
). You can argue that it does not add newinformation, neither does spam and our conversation, but it shows that
you treat newsgroup as something more than your homework solver -
especially when you are newbie asking basic questions which you either
should 'google' or learn from a textbook for beginners.
Ok, let it be. By the way, have you seen a once famous thread on one
of Java Sun Forums about media players? Let me quote few excerpts:
"hi i need a complete source code for a video media player.... "
"I want code of media player in java if possible plz send to me "
.... here someone sends some basic code for playing media files in
Java ...
"i need complete source code for Media Player in Java "
"thank u
Please send a complete source code for MediaPlayer which will be run
in JDK1.5.0 "
So, what we have here? "a neutral and inquisitive tone, only",
right? ;-)
And I'm sincerely sorry for quoting your sig
)
L
Lew
Rzeźnik said:And I'm sincerely sorry for quoting your sig
Hey, I'm just playing with you.
If anyone is rude and arrogant, well, I can definitely relate.
R
Rzeźnik
I noticed, see *smileys*
Sure, but I can't help but think that your attitude somehow leaves the
door open for aforementioned anti-social behavior
[Here goes the sig which I am not gonna quote]
J
John B. Matthews
Re: "... questions asked in apparently rude and arrogant tone."
The OP's question, "what is object? what is object reference?" was
certainly terse, perhaps even abrupt, but not intrinsically rude or
arrogant. The writer's name and diction suggest a native language other
than English. In particular, the indefinite article has been elided. A
native speaker might have asked, "What is an object? What is an object
reference?"
Similarly, I infer that your native language is not English, yet I see
from your contribution* in another thread that you take considerable
care to write clear, idiomatic English. I sense that you set a high
standard for yourself. Possibly, this biased your perception.
Several others have acknowledged rossum's contribution. I would add that
his clear explication is foundational to understanding a very frequently
asked question: How does Java pass arguments?
I look forward to referencing his diagram, although I will probably
substitute an inferior automotive analogy.
*<http://code.google.com/p/coroutines/w/list>
The OP's question, "what is object? what is object reference?" was
certainly terse, perhaps even abrupt, but not intrinsically rude or
arrogant. The writer's name and diction suggest a native language other
than English. In particular, the indefinite article has been elided. A
native speaker might have asked, "What is an object? What is an object
reference?"
Similarly, I infer that your native language is not English, yet I see
from your contribution* in another thread that you take considerable
care to write clear, idiomatic English. I sense that you set a high
standard for yourself. Possibly, this biased your perception.
Several others have acknowledged rossum's contribution. I would add that
his clear explication is foundational to understanding a very frequently
asked question: How does Java pass arguments?
I look forward to referencing his diagram, although I will probably
substitute an inferior automotive analogy.
*<http://code.google.com/p/coroutines/w/list>
R
Rzeźnik
Yes, I noticed and I brought forward my answer in one of previous
posts:
"I think politeness is not a function of language spoken or written.
One should be aware how to be polite in his native language and come
up with something similar in language used in conversation (even if it
was not 100% correct the intention 'd remain), or, find out how to
express it in foreign language. We all have access to dictionaries,
guides etc if in doubt."
You are right
yet I see
Thank you very much, I am delighted to hear your compliment.
Yet I do not think that 'standards' explain everything. I am not a
linguistic genius at all, you can tell seeing all the mistakes I've
made, but when I write for English-speaking audience or to English-
speaking newsgroup I try to do my best 'cause I want to be understood
and, also, to show respect for all readers (especially when it is a
question). That's basic thing. Having written that I came to
conclusion that maybe my accusation of rudeness was too harsh. You are
right, rudeness is more contrived. It is merely laziness.
I was talking about the OP, he should be the most thankful one.
I would add that
Yes, I've seen the frequent mistake of mixing up notions of pass-by-
value and pass-by-reference when it comes to Java. Perhaps it is
because you can modify properties of an object via passed reference,
so it vaguely looks like pass-by-reference (because you can 'touch'
something on the outside
). The unnatural distinction between reference types and primitives
does not help either. But I think very simple experiment can solve all
doubts - it suffices to try to modify the _reference_ inside a
function so that it points to sth else and observe what's happening
when function is exited.
I look forward to referencing his diagram, although I will probably
substitute an inferior automotive analogy.
What is it?
M
Mike Schilling
Rzeznik said:
Or he let one of his Universal Robots answer.
P
Pitch
It may halp th op. And it's not inaccurate. Objects are data. Data is
memory. Object variables (references) are named memory locations which
contain address of object's data.
J
John B. Matthews
Rzeênik said:What is it?
It's an uninformative comparison to an unrelated industry, but that's
not important now.
See also, Airplane! <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airplane!>:
Jimmy: Can I ask you a question?
Striker: What is it?
Jimmy: It's an interrogative statement used to test knowledge, but
that's not important now...
<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080339/quotes>
<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083530/quotes>
Or maybe <http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/autos.asp>.