Javascript Libraries

  • Thread starter Matt Silberstein
  • Start date
M

Matt Silberstein

To do what?

Yeah, I know, I should have said a bit more. I have in mind a consumer
oriented service site, so I have lots of general needs. I would much
rather use a well developed library than write my own so I can
concentrate on the, I hope, original stuff. So I am looking for a
variety of things. I have a vague need, vague responses are probably
good enough.

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
M

Matt Kruse

Matt said:
Thanks, somehow I did not have that one.

Check back in the coming weeks, too, as I am nearly done creating the new
site from scratch and improving on much of the code.
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

Matt said:
To do what?

Yeah, I know, I should have said a bit more. I have in mind a consumer
oriented service site, [...]

First of all, a consumer-oriented service site does not _depend_ on
client-side JS/ECMAScript support.


PointedEars
 
R

Randy Webb

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn said the following on 1/9/2006 4:12 PM:
Matt Silberstein wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

Are there any good qualities libraries out there, free or for
"reasonable" cost?

To do what?

Yeah, I know, I should have said a bit more. I have in mind a consumer
oriented service site, [...]


First of all, a consumer-oriented service site does not _depend_ on
client-side JS/ECMAScript support.

Question: What does that have to do with anything in this thread?
Answer: Nothing.
Question: Why does TL post such unrelated gibberish?
Answer: He knows no better yet?
 
M

Matt Kruse

Thomas said:
First of all, a consumer-oriented service site does not _depend_ on
client-side JS/ECMAScript support.

Oops, you forgot to write "in my opinion".

A web site depends on whatever the hell it wants to, whether you agree with
it or not.
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

Matt said:
Oops, you forgot to write "in my opinion".

No, I did not. Forcing consumers to have client-side JS/ECMAScript support
to use the service is _not_ consumer-oriented, from a very objective point
of view.


PointedEars
 
V

VK

Matt said:
Yeah, I know, I should have said a bit more. I have in mind a consumer
oriented service site, so I have lots of general needs. I would much
rather use a well developed library than write my own so I can
concentrate on the, I hope, original stuff. So I am looking for a
variety of things. I have a vague need, vague responses are probably
good enough.

Then another must in your collection should be "prototype.js" library
From my personal experience a lot of home-developers are using it. It
is based on how many times my shortcut function $(id) for
document.getElementById had clinched in someone's environment (because
prototype.js has it's own of the same kind).
Actually the absence of package namespaces is a killer in JavaScript.
That would be a project for the good of humanity :) to collect all
most popular libraries and get the list of used function/glob variable
names from them. Spice it up with the list of "top 20 tasty names" like
IE, FF, NN etc. which should be presumed by anyone's library to be
occupied in the global scope. Add window own properties atop of it
(like "self"). All together it would be a must-have table for any
JavaScript programmer, I think.
 
M

Matt Kruse

Thomas said:
No, I did not. Forcing consumers to have client-side JS/ECMAScript
support to use the service is _not_ consumer-oriented, from a very
objective point of view.

Sure it is. Just not to your standards, which you are generalizing to be the
standards that everyone should follow. How nice of you.

There is always a "minimum requirement" to use any type of software. If you
buy software off the shelf today, surely you wouldn't expect to use it on
your old 486 running Windows 3.1. If that was your computer, you would have
limited options. But the software maker surely would not be criticized for
making software that is not "consumer oriented".

If a site decides to require javascript (or flash, or SSL, or CSS, or a
browser newer than Mosaic 1.0, etc) then they have purposely limited their
potential audience. This is not a bad thing. It just has consequences. If
the site builders are okay with the consequences, then that's their
perogative. I'm a consumer, and I don't mind sites that require javascript
at all. Clearly your generalization is just your opinion.
 
J

Jonas Raoni

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn escreveu:
VK said:
Matt said:
I would much rather use a well developed library than write my own so I can
concentrate on the, I hope, original stuff.[...]
Then another must in your collection should be "prototype.js" library
<http://prototype.conio.net/>

No, it should not. But I am not surprised that you recommend it.

I took a look on this code one month ago and I didn't liked too, the
guy prototyped even the Object, which killed the "for..in" loop.

In my opinion most of those functions just complicates what was so
supposed to be very easy... Some of them are handy, but since he's
writing a library that's used by a lot of people, he should write
better things and for sure avoid global objects, anyway, it's not my
problem ;]
It is based on how many times my shortcut function $(id) for
document.getElementById had clinched in someone's environment (because
prototype.js has it's own of the same kind).

I also had problems with this Prototype library, but it was due to the
"for..in" death, I sent an email to the creator and he said that was
going to correct.
Actually the absence of package namespaces is a killer in JavaScript.

But you can create your namespaces, it won't avoid such problems, but
if you choose a nice name the chances of breaking your code will really
decrease, and if it get overwritten by another developer, at least it
will be easier for you to find the problem as nothing will work :)

JonasStuffs = {
a: function(){},
b: 123
};

You can even make something in a java style haha:

com = {jonasraoni: {etc: {
a: function(){},
b: 123
}}};

Sure it doesn't need to look so ugly...
 
J

Jim Ley

Actually the absence of package namespaces is a killer in JavaScript.
That would be a project for the good of humanity :) to collect all
most popular libraries and get the list of used function/glob variable
names from them.

Surely any competent library that you wanted to integrate would only
use one global name?

Jim.
 
V

VK

Randy said:
VK said the following on 1/10/2006 12:16 PM:

Then why would you need a "list of global variables"?

Because you cannot count on everyone else.
I thought the OP's idea was to "urbi et orbi", not just sharing
experience between a group of "selected people" (I'm aside). There are
rather popular libraries which overload or extend host object methods
(window or document) and which have some global variables like
"isSomething". It is terrible, incorrect, errorneous, false, profanic,
obscene, sacrilegious, amateurish, dilettantish, jackleg, jackass and
mf b.s.

The problem remains that a lot of people are not aware of it or do not
give a tea-spoon of the substance for this matter ;-)

So rather then pretend that the problem do not exists it is better to
get a fair picture of what obstacles can be met by academically correct
libraries in the imperfect surrounding.

IMHighlyHO
 
M

Matt Silberstein

Matt said:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
Are there any good qualities libraries out there, free or for
"reasonable" cost?
To do what?

Yeah, I know, I should have said a bit more. I have in mind a consumer
oriented service site, [...]

First of all, a consumer-oriented service site does not _depend_ on
client-side JS/ECMAScript support.

You are, of course, welcome to your own private definitions. I am, of
course, free to make an attempt to produce a product. The product I
have in mind would provide consumer value and requires JavaScript (or
functional equivalent) for implementation. I don't want to package it
as a stand alone application, that would not make sense for the stuff.
So I am willing to exclude some X % that has JavaScript turned off. I
would, of course, make that as clear as is reasonable.


--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
 
V

VK

Matt said:
So I am willing to exclude some X % that has JavaScript turned off. I
would, of course, make that as clear as is reasonable.

May be consider as highly trolling, but these "users with JavaScript
turned off" for me still remain kind of Bigfoot or Flying Soucer.
Anyone knows about them, many believes in them, knows stories about
them, someone even personally met... another person who sees them by
own eyes. I'm just kinda staying out of luck I guess. Between me and my
colleges we have over 30 traps set all around the area (web-servers
with visitors stats) and no one damn bell buzzed for many years. Maybe
we should try in Oregon?
 

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