JS framework

Discussion in 'Javascript' started by Ivan S, May 27, 2009.

  1. Ivan S

    Ivan S Guest

    What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?



    I'll build web application which is "portlet-like" ... I like JQuery,
    but I'm opened to new or better solutions.



    What do you think about Dojo?




    Thanks in advance.






    Ivan
    Ivan S, May 27, 2009
    #1
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  2. Ivan S

    rf Guest

    Ivan S wrote:
    > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?


    Notepad.

    Start typing...
    rf, May 27, 2009
    #2
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  3. Ivan S

    Ivan S Guest

    On 27 svi, 16:05, "rf" <> wrote:
    > Ivan S wrote:
    > > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?

    >
    > Notepad.
    >
    > Start typing...


    I don't think that a good idea. Notepad++ is much better. :)



    Just kidding ... I don't want to code all by my self, it would take me
    a lot of time to develop things that I need (and some frameworks have
    it all done).
    Ivan S, May 27, 2009
    #3
  4. Ivan S wrote:
    > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?


    Yours. It's not that hard to do. In fact, without being presumptuous, I
    don't think one can do worse than what is on the advertised market right
    now. If only I had the time ...


    HTH

    PointedEars
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, May 27, 2009
    #4
  5. Ivan S

    Ricardo Guest

    On 27 maio, 14:26, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <>
    wrote:
    > Ivan S wrote:
    > > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?

    >
    > Yours.  It's not that hard to do.  In fact, without being presumptuous, I
    > don't think one can do worse than what is on the advertised market right
    > now.  If only I had the time ...


    lol
    Ricardo, May 27, 2009
    #5
  6. Ivan S

    David Mark Guest

    On May 27, 4:00 pm, Ricardo <> wrote:
    > On 27 maio, 14:26, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Ivan S wrote:
    > > > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?

    >
    > > Yours.  It's not that hard to do.  In fact, without being presumptuous, I
    > > don't think one can do worse than what is on the advertised market right
    > > now.  If only I had the time ...

    >
    > lol


    Oh, it's the guy who thinks all of the bugs, memory leaks and other
    incompetence in jQuery is an evil bias against jQuery and other
    "frameworks" by this newsgroup. Weren't you just in here whining
    about some bug report? The "attr" method I think. Was explained to
    you in painful detail, but you just scuttled off and did nothing.

    Your whole professional future relies on the kindness of other hacks
    and you are too inept to relay a simple bug report. Ironic,
    considering that community is supposed to be a selling point. I don't
    think a community of inept imbeciles is what the browser scripting
    world needs right now.
    David Mark, May 27, 2009
    #6
  7. Ivan S

    David Mark Guest

    On May 27, 11:27 am, Ivan S <> wrote:
    > On 27 svi, 16:05, "rf" <> wrote:
    >
    > > Ivan S wrote:
    > > > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?

    >
    > > Notepad.

    >
    > > Start typing...

    >
    > I don't think that a good idea. Notepad++ is much better. :)
    >
    > Just kidding ... I don't want to code all by my self, it would take me
    > a lot of time to develop things that I need (and some frameworks have
    > it all done).


    No they do not. Not by a long shot and there aren't enough man-hours
    in the year for them to catch up. Search the archive for more
    information.
    David Mark, May 27, 2009
    #7
  8. Ivan S

    David Mark Guest

    On May 27, 9:44 am, Ivan S <> wrote:
    > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?
    >
    > I'll build web application which is "portlet-like" ... I like JQuery,
    > but I'm opened to new or better solutions.
    >
    > What do you think about Dojo?


    I think that, unlike jQuery and the rest, it has a bright future.
    There are some very smart people involved. I am personally tying some
    things down for them so that even the most grizzled Javascript
    veterans will approve. The next version will leave all of the rest
    behind. You can put that in the bank.

    In a sentence, they are *listening*, which does not describe the other
    efforts at all.
    David Mark, May 28, 2009
    #8
  9. Conrad Lender wrote:
    > On 27/05/09 17:27, Ivan S wrote:
    >> On 27 svi, 16:05, "rf" <> wrote:
    >>> Ivan S wrote:
    >>>> What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?
    >>> Notepad.

    > ...
    >> I don't want to code all by my self, it would take me a lot of time
    >> to develop things that I need (and some frameworks have it all done).

    >
    > You're not likely to get any recommendations for libraries or frameworks
    > in cljs. From the FAQ [1]: "No javascript libraries are endorsed by this
    > group.


    Should links to reviews be in the FAQ? If so, only the best reviews
    should be linked. Best=highest s/n, least rudeness.

    If you agree, find a link and post up. Maybe it goes in the FAQ.

    Garrett
    Garrett Smith, May 28, 2009
    #9
  10. Ivan S

    David Mark Guest

    On May 28, 2:23 am, Garrett Smith <> wrote:
    > Conrad Lender wrote:
    > > On 27/05/09 17:27, Ivan S wrote:
    > >> On 27 svi, 16:05, "rf" <> wrote:
    > >>> Ivan S wrote:
    > >>>> What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?
    > >>> Notepad.

    > > ...
    > >> I don't want to code all by my self, it would take me a lot of time
    > >> to develop things that I need (and some frameworks have it all done).

    >
    > > You're not likely to get any recommendations for libraries or frameworks
    > > in cljs. From the FAQ [1]: "No javascript libraries are endorsed by this
    > > group.

    >
    > Should links to reviews be in the FAQ? If so, only the best reviews
    > should be linked. Best=highest s/n, least rudeness.


    Yes, but never mind judging "rudeness." Replies can be rude (like
    Resig's various lame attempts to head off criticism), but reviews are
    not replies to anyone, just the expression of opinions, hopefully
    buttressed with facts. Are movie critics rude when they savage the
    latest Hollywood monstrosity?

    Nest = more controversy = more readers = more enlightenment. If
    people can't deal with harsh criticism, they should seek careers out
    of the spotlight. I am sick and tired of hearing that outrageous
    incompetence and waste - not to mention outright fraud - is justified
    and criticism is socially unacceptable. As for harshness, it is
    required as nobody seems to hear whispers of mild encouragement.

    >
    > If you agree, find a link and post up. Maybe it goes in the FAQ.


    Ah, you know where the significant ones are. I believe jQuery,
    MooTools and Cappuccino have been sufficiently debunked in the last
    year or so. Not just reviewed, but dissected to show that there's
    nothing proficient or maintainable inside. Is it rude to say
    Cappuccino is worthless? Perhaps those who worked on it may think so,
    but it's a nice gesture for all of the people who will save time by
    avoiding it. I hear from those people occasionally. It makes it all
    worthwhile. Well, that and all the publicity. :)
    David Mark, May 28, 2009
    #10
  11. Ivan S

    David Mark Guest

    On May 28, 3:05 am, David Mark <> wrote:
    > On May 28, 2:23 am, Garrett Smith <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Conrad Lender wrote:
    > > > On 27/05/09 17:27, Ivan S wrote:
    > > >> On 27 svi, 16:05, "rf" <> wrote:
    > > >>> Ivan S wrote:
    > > >>>> What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?
    > > >>> Notepad.
    > > > ...
    > > >> I don't want to code all by my self, it would take me a lot of time
    > > >> to develop things that I need (and some frameworks have it all done)..

    >
    > > > You're not likely to get any recommendations for libraries or frameworks
    > > > in cljs. From the FAQ [1]: "No javascript libraries are endorsed by this
    > > > group.

    >
    > > Should links to reviews be in the FAQ? If so, only the best reviews
    > > should be linked. Best=highest s/n, least rudeness.

    >
    > Yes, but never mind judging "rudeness."  Replies can be rude (like
    > Resig's various lame attempts to head off criticism), but reviews are
    > not replies to anyone, just the expression of opinions, hopefully
    > buttressed with facts.  Are movie critics rude when they savage the
    > latest Hollywood monstrosity?
    >
    > Nest = more controversy = more readers = more enlightenment.  If

    ^^^^

    "Best" was intended.
    David Mark, May 28, 2009
    #11
  12. Ivan S

    Ivan S Guest

    On 28 svi, 02:06, David Mark <> wrote:
    > On May 27, 9:44 am, Ivan S <> wrote:
    >
    > > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?

    >
    > > I'll build web application which is "portlet-like" ... I like JQuery,
    > > but I'm opened to new or better solutions.

    >
    > > What do you think about Dojo?

    >
    > I think that, unlike jQuery and the rest, it has a bright future.
    > There are some very smart people involved.  I am personally tying some
    > things down for them so that even the most grizzled Javascript
    > veterans will approve.  The next version will leave all of the rest
    > behind.  You can put that in the bank.
    >
    > In a sentence, they are *listening*, which does not describe the other
    > efforts at all.


    Thanks.
    Ivan S, May 28, 2009
    #12
  13. Ivan S

    Guest

    On May 28, 2:06 am, David Mark <> wrote:
    > On May 27, 9:44 am, Ivan S <> wrote:
    >
    > > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?

    >
    > > I'll build web application which is "portlet-like" ... I like JQuery,
    > > but I'm opened to new or better solutions.

    >
    > > What do you think about Dojo?

    >
    > I think that, unlike jQuery and the rest, it has a bright future.
    > There are some very smart people involved. I am personally tying some
    > things down for them so that even the most grizzled Javascript
    > veterans will approve. The next version will leave all of the rest
    > behind. You can put that in the bank.
    >
    > In a sentence, they are *listening*, which does not describe the other
    > efforts at all.
    , May 28, 2009
    #13
  14. Ivan S

    David Mark Guest

    On May 28, 6:55 am, Conrad Lender <> wrote:
    > On 28/05/09 02:06, David Mark wrote:
    >
    > >> What do you think about Dojo?

    >
    > > I think that, unlike jQuery and the rest, it has a bright future.
    > > There are some very smart people involved.  I am personally tying some
    > > things down for them so that even the most grizzled Javascript
    > > veterans will approve.  The next version will leave all of the rest
    > > behind.  You can put that in the bank.

    >
    > Dojo is interesting, but I'm surprised to read what almost sounds like
    > an endorsement from you. The current version of Dojo still relies
    > heavily on browser sniffing via navigator.userAgent. Will all that be
    > gone in the next release?
    >


    Dojo is *very* interesting. Yes, like virtually every script (scripts
    in this case) written since 2005, it relies on the UA string. I said
    it had a bright *future* because:

    - The browser detection is going away (of course.)
    - High degree of modularity and flexibility
    - Fastest by far
    - Well documented and supported
    - Adding state of the art feature testing throughout
    - Lots of ready-made widgets with consistent UI
    - Active community creating add-ons
    - Intelligent and thoughtful people involved
    - Backed by major players and an established foundation

    It's got a bit of a bad rap for being too large, but that's a myth.
    It is certainly expansive, but there is no requirement to use *all* of
    it. Same for the perception that toys like jQuery are easier to use.
    I was surprised to find out that there is a ready-made single file
    version, served via AOL's CDN that can easily replace the toy
    monoliths.

    As for speed, see the TaskSpeed results, which runs tests supplied by
    the each script's author(s). It's not even a horse race. Appears
    jQuery broke down and will have to be destroyed. :)

    If you are going to bet on a horse, I'd definitely pick this one. I'm
    now involved and as for the other contenders:

    - Who would put a penny on John Resig at this point?
    - Prototype is dying, despite the best efforts of Kangax.
    - YUI is nothing but an ongoing public Beta for Yahoo. I find their
    marketing to be disgustingly disingenuous.

    What else is there for those who want/need a toolkit? I don't even
    consider things like jQuery to be toolkits, more like random
    collections of related scripts ranging in "quality" from very bad to
    completely unusable (e.g. jQuery UI, which is only for those bent on
    career suicide.)

    I'm not saying it is perfect for everyone. But it seems virtually
    everyone wants something in this mold. The powers that be at Dojo
    have asked me to help out, which is certainly a credit to them and
    will result in lots of improvements over the next few months. Seems
    like that is what the jQuery proponents have been begging me to do for
    years (except with *their* script.) They should have asked in a more
    *polite* manner. :)

    And, of course, you should learn Javascript and basic browser
    scripting techniques, regardless of what is out there.
    David Mark, May 28, 2009
    #14
  15. Ivan S

    Matt Kruse Guest

    On May 28, 11:09 am, David Mark <> wrote:
    > Dojo is *very* interesting.


    After years of you saying no one should ever use a general-purpose
    library and that the entire concept is flawed, you were asked to help
    with one (ego stroke) and suddenly it's not such a bad idea anymore.
    You have been critical of including a script on every page even if you
    aren't going to use most of it, but now it's fine with Dojo because
    its large size "is a myth". You've pointed out the stupidity of
    framework speed comparisons, and now you're pointing to them as
    evidence. You tear apart jQuery and repeatedly point out how bad it is
    because it features browser-sniffing, but can overlook that in your
    script of choice because they are "working on it".

    I would call you a hypocrite, but I'm actually kind of glad that
    you're catching up with the rest of the scripting community and
    realizing the importance of scripting frameworks. I hope you don't
    "search the archives" and read your own posts and convince yourself
    what a bad idea it is again.

    Matt Kruse
    Matt Kruse, May 29, 2009
    #15
  16. Ivan S

    Matt Kruse Guest

    Matt Kruse, May 29, 2009
    #16
  17. Ivan S

    rf Guest

    Matt Kruse wrote:
    > On May 28, 11:09 am, David Mark <> wrote:
    >> Dojo is *very* interesting.

    >
    > From just a few months ago:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/msg/fe6de478b23ddc97
    >
    > "> Can you recommend another library? Dojo looks like an alternative
    >
    > It's crap and general purpose browser scripting libraries are
    > generally a bad idea."
    > -- David Mark


    Good call :)
    rf, May 29, 2009
    #17
  18. Ivan S

    Guest

    On May 27, 9:44 am, Ivan S <> wrote:
    > What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?
    >
    > I'll build web application which is "portlet-like" ... I like JQuery,
    > but I'm opened to new or better solutions.
    >
    > What do you think about Dojo?
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > Ivan


    Yahoo's YUI is also an option. Just do a google search for YUI. It has
    good documentation and examples to get you going.
    , May 29, 2009
    #18
  19. Ivan S

    David Mark Guest

    On May 29, 7:39 am, Matt Kruse <> wrote:
    > On May 28, 11:09 am, David Mark <> wrote:
    >
    > > Dojo is *very* interesting.

    >
    > After years of you saying no one should ever use a general-purpose
    > library and that the entire concept is flawed, you were asked to help
    > with one (ego stroke) and suddenly it's not such a bad idea anymore.


    And, when did I tell you to use a library? Any library?

    > You have been critical of including a script on every page even if you
    > aren't going to use most of it, but now it's fine with Dojo because
    > its large size "is a myth".


    It's modular, stupid. You know, like mine. Did you read my post?

    > You've pointed out the stupidity of
    > framework speed comparisons, and now you're pointing to them as
    > evidence.


    I never said anything about TaskSpeed as it did not exist at the
    time. It's a much better test than the query comparisons.

    > You tear apart jQuery and repeatedly point out how bad it is
    > because it features browser-sniffing, but can overlook that in your
    > script of choice because they are "working on it".


    Again, did you read my post at all? *I* am working on it and it will
    be gone in the next release.

    >
    > I would call you a hypocrite, but I'm actually kind of glad that
    > you're catching up with the rest of the scripting community and
    > realizing the importance of scripting frameworks. I hope you don't
    > "search the archives" and read your own posts and convince yourself
    > what a bad idea it is again.


    I just don't think you can read for comprehension at all.
    David Mark, May 29, 2009
    #19
  20. Ivan S

    David Mark Guest

    On May 29, 8:09 am, Matt Kruse <> wrote:
    > On May 28, 11:09 am, David Mark <> wrote:
    >
    > > Dojo is *very* interesting.

    >
    > From just a few months ago:
    >


    [snip]

    Shut up, idiot. You know better.
    David Mark, May 29, 2009
    #20
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