Just wasted $60 on Borland

Discussion in 'C++' started by Tom Seim, Oct 15, 2004.

  1. Tom Seim

    Tom Seim Guest

    Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
    tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
    think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?

    Don't waste your money on this crap!
    Tom Seim, Oct 15, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "Tom Seim" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
    > tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
    > think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
    >
    > Don't waste your money on this crap!


    Have to wonder why you paid any money for a compiler at all.

    Assuming you are running Windows then free compiler from Microsoft, or free
    compiler from Cygwin.

    John
    John Harrison, Oct 15, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "Tom Seim" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
    > tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!).


    LOL, either the registration process is more tortuous than I can imagine or
    you meant to say 'F**KING try again later'.

    john
    John Harrison, Oct 15, 2004
    #3
  4. [OT]Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland

    Tom Seim wrote:

    > Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
    > tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
    > think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
    >
    > Don't waste your money on this crap!


    Ur...uh... If you can't get it registered, then I will assume you can't run
    it. If you can't run it, then you don't know if it's "crappy"[*] or not.
    Unless of course you already knew that. In that case why would you fork
    over $60 for something you already know is "crap"?

    BTW. what are they selling for $60?

    [*] Just as an historical note. The use of the word crap to denote feces is
    due to the name of the inventor of the toilet being named Crapp(IIRC). See:
    _Unearthing_Atlantis_ by Charles R Pellegrino
    --
    "If our hypothesis is about anything and not about some one or more
    particular things, then our deductions constitute mathematics. Thus
    mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we
    are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true." - Bertrand
    Russell
    Steven T. Hatton, Oct 15, 2004
    #4
  5. John Harrison wrote:
    >
    > "Tom Seim" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
    > > tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
    > > think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
    > >
    > > Don't waste your money on this crap!

    >
    > Have to wonder why you paid any money for a compiler at all.
    >
    > Assuming you are running Windows then free compiler from Microsoft, or free
    > compiler from Cygwin.


    or even free compiler from Borland :)

    --
    Karl Heinz Buchegger
    Karl Heinz Buchegger, Oct 15, 2004
    #5
  6. Tom Seim

    JKop Guest

    Tom Seim posted:

    > Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
    > tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
    > think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
    >
    > Don't waste your money on this crap!


    I've never paid for software.

    ....and I've got WinXP Pro, Microsoft Office, Microsoft Visual Studio 2003
    ..NET, among many many many others.


    -JKop
    JKop, Oct 15, 2004
    #6
  7. Tom Seim

    Tom Widmer Guest

    On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:08:01 GMT, JKop <> wrote:

    >Tom Seim posted:
    >
    >> Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
    >> tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
    >> think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
    >>
    >> Don't waste your money on this crap!

    >
    >I've never paid for software.
    >
    >...and I've got WinXP Pro, Microsoft Office, Microsoft Visual Studio 2003
    >.NET, among many many many others.


    Big man. You're taking food from the mouths of users of this
    newsgroup, many of whom rely on software sales to pay their
    salaries...

    Tom
    Tom Widmer, Oct 15, 2004
    #7
  8. Tom Seim

    JKop Guest


    > Big man. You're taking food from the mouths of users of this
    > newsgroup, many of whom rely on software sales to pay their
    > salaries...



    If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
    World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
    management problem!

    Anyway, I'm only 17. I've only gotten a full-time job within the last few
    months; if I were to pay for all software and books I've used to gain the
    knowledge I now have, then I wouldn't have been able to start learning to
    programme at the age of 12 as I did. I myself believe that that is a bad
    thing. If a 10 year old said to me "I want to programme, but I don't have
    $500 for Visual Studio or money to buy a C++ book.", then all my ill-
    feelings about "stealing" software go out the window. Whip out the CD-R's
    and head down the library.


    -JKop

    Now that I *do* have the money, I wouldn't at all mind paying for software
    and books. But at the same time, if BearShare lists "VisualStudio2003.zip",
    then... hmm... I
    JKop, Oct 15, 2004
    #8
  9. [even more OT] (was: [OT]Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland)

    In message <>, Steven T. Hatton
    <> writes
    >
    >[*] Just as an historical note. The use of the word crap to denote feces is
    >due to the name of the inventor of the toilet being named Crapp(IIRC).


    YRI. Thomas Crapper made some minor improvements to its plumbing. He
    certainly didn't invent it.

    http://www.theplumber.com/crapper.html

    > See:
    >_Unearthing_Atlantis_ by Charles R Pellegrino


    Why?
    --
    Richard Herring
    Richard Herring, Oct 15, 2004
    #9
  10. JKop wrote:
    >
    > > Big man. You're taking food from the mouths of users of this
    > > newsgroup, many of whom rely on software sales to pay their
    > > salaries...

    >
    >
    > If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
    > World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
    > management problem!


    Not really.
    I earn my living with programming just as others do with fixing cars.
    And of course I expect my customers to pay me just as my mechanic
    expects me to pay.

    >
    > Anyway, I'm only 17. I've only gotten a full-time job within the last few
    > months; if I were to pay for all software and books I've used to gain the
    > knowledge I now have, then I wouldn't have been able to start learning to
    > programme at the age of 12 as I did. I myself believe that that is a bad
    > thing. If a 10 year old said to me "I want to programme, but I don't have
    > $500 for Visual Studio or money to buy a C++ book.", then all my ill-
    > feelings about "stealing" software go out the window.


    There are free compilers around and also there are free books around.
    Nevertheless what happens to the good old institution called 'library'.
    I spent half of my university time in the library because I could not
    afford the books. For me buying a book ment: cut down food ration.

    One man / One year -> ~ 100000 to 120000 dollar
    So for a product where 3 man work for 2 years (and thats a small
    to midsize project) will cost your company around 600000 dollar or
    more. That will be around 40% of total costs, the other 60% will be needed
    for marketing and distribution. That totals for 1.5 million dollars.
    With 400 bucks per sail, you will need 3750 sailes for this product to
    get at least break even. This totaly ignores: Where do the programmers
    get their food from in those 2 years? The guy (or the bank) giving you
    the money for development wants some interest.

    --
    Karl Heinz Buchegger
    Karl Heinz Buchegger, Oct 15, 2004
    #10
  11. Re: [even more OT] (was: [OT]Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland)

    Richard Herring wrote:


    >> See:
    >>_Unearthing_Atlantis_ by Charles R Pellegrino

    >
    > Why?

    http://www.culture.gr/2/21/211/21121a/e211ua08.html
    --
    "If our hypothesis is about anything and not about some one or more
    particular things, then our deductions constitute mathematics. Thus
    mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we
    are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true." - Bertrand
    Russell
    Steven T. Hatton, Oct 15, 2004
    #11
  12. Tom Seim

    JKop Guest

    Re:

    >> If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
    >> World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
    >> management problem!

    >
    > Not really.
    > I earn my living with programming just as others do with fixing cars.
    > And of course I expect my customers to pay me just as my mechanic
    > expects me to pay.



    I was meremely referring to the fact that...

    I live in Ireland, I can buy 30 eggs for EUR 3.00, that's EUR 0.10 per egg.
    The minimum wage in Ireland is EUR 7.00 per hour. As such, for every hour
    that one works in Ireland at minimum wage, one could potentially purchase 70
    eggs. So let's say that 5 eggs feed you for one day:

    7 days in a week, 5 eggs per day = EUR 3.50 per week

    To earn EUR 3.50 in one week, at minimum wage one has to work at minimum
    wage for 30 minutes per week.

    As such, I would hope that my "stealing" software from his doesn't affect
    his ability to feed himself.

    (Besides that, here in Ireland, we have all sorts of social services. For
    instance, if you walk into the Social Services place and say "I haven't
    eaten all day, I've no food and I've no money to buy any food", then they
    *must* feed you there and then.)

    So when I don't pay for things in the 1st World, I don't feel particularly
    guilty.

    But then if I didn't pay for something off some-one from the 3rd World, and
    on account of that, that person was unable to eat as well as if I'd payed
    him, then yes I'd feel guilty. I'd pay him twice, three times.

    And as regards financial management problems... the minimum weekly wage here
    in Ireland at 40 hours a week is approx. EUR 280.00
    It's possible that a person spends maybe EUR 200.00 a week on cocaine (I
    know one such person who does), so if *he* can't feed himself (no pun
    intended), then it's his own problem and I feel no remorse.


    End of rant.


    -JKop
    JKop, Oct 15, 2004
    #12
  13. Re: [even more OT] (was: [OT]Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland)

    In message <>, Steven T. Hatton
    <> writes
    >Richard Herring wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> See:
    >>>_Unearthing_Atlantis_ by Charles R Pellegrino

    >>
    >> Why?

    >http://www.culture.gr/2/21/211/21121a/e211ua08.html


    Again, why? No references there to Victorian plumbing.

    --
    Richard Herring
    Richard Herring, Oct 15, 2004
    #13
  14. Tom Seim

    Tom Widmer Guest

    On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:47:25 GMT, JKop <> wrote:

    >
    >> Big man. You're taking food from the mouths of users of this
    >> newsgroup, many of whom rely on software sales to pay their
    >> salaries...

    >
    >
    >If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
    >World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
    >management problem!


    And if you live in the 1st world, then you (or your parents) can
    likely afford to pay for the odd bit of software or the odd book. Are
    you saying that theft is fine in the 1st world?

    >Anyway, I'm only 17.


    Your maturity level is well documented on usenet, and no one cares
    about your actual age (which can't be confirmed in any case).

    I've only gotten a full-time job within the last few
    >months; if I were to pay for all software and books I've used to gain the
    >knowledge I now have, then I wouldn't have been able to start learning to
    >programme at the age of 12 as I did.


    There is plenty of free programming software available, and even a
    well known OS for which most development software is free (including
    the OS itself). Alternatively, Java programming is easy to get into
    for free on any platform, with several of the IDEs being free
    software.

    > I myself believe that that is a bad
    >thing. If a 10 year old said to me "I want to programme, but I don't have
    >$500 for Visual Studio or money to buy a C++ book.", then all my ill-
    >feelings about "stealing" software go out the window. Whip out the CD-R's
    >and head down the library.


    How about install Linux, GCC and a free IDE like KDevelop? Or install
    Windows and Dev-C++? Or Windows and Eclipse or Netbeans?

    >Now that I *do* have the money, I wouldn't at all mind paying for software
    >and books.


    That's big of you.

    Tom
    Tom Widmer, Oct 15, 2004
    #14
  15. Re:

    JKop wrote:
    >
    > >> If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
    > >> World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
    > >> management problem!

    > >
    > > Not really.
    > > I earn my living with programming just as others do with fixing cars.
    > > And of course I expect my customers to pay me just as my mechanic
    > > expects me to pay.

    >
    > I was meremely referring to the fact that...
    >
    > I live in Ireland, I can buy 30 eggs for EUR 3.00, that's EUR 0.10 per egg.
    > The minimum wage in Ireland is EUR 7.00 per hour. As such, for every hour
    > that one works in Ireland at minimum wage, one could potentially purchase 70
    > eggs. So let's say that 5 eggs feed you for one day:
    >
    > 7 days in a week, 5 eggs per day = EUR 3.50 per week
    >
    > To earn EUR 3.50 in one week, at minimum wage one has to work at minimum
    > wage for 30 minutes per week.


    That's not the whole story:
    1) You cannot life from eggs alone :)
    2) What about your loft, electricity, water, garbage, clothing,
    children, heating (oil prices have increased heavily this year), taxes, ...
    All of them cost money.
    And then: life is not only eating, drinking and having an appartment.
    Sometimes we'd love to go to the movies, have a beer with friends,
    children have birthday, for people at my age (~40) retirement insurance
    has become a serious problem: the state system will break down in 20 to
    30 years, so what then? I have to put to the side what I can afford right
    now.

    >
    > As such, I would hope that my "stealing" software from his doesn't affect
    > his ability to feed himself.
    >
    > (Besides that, here in Ireland, we have all sorts of social services. For
    > instance, if you walk into the Social Services place and say "I haven't
    > eaten all day, I've no food and I've no money to buy any food", then they
    > *must* feed you there and then.)


    Among the same here in Austria (as in most european countries). But hand
    to the heart: Don't you think that there is something wrong in Denmark if
    you work hard all day and yet are dependent on others to feed you?
    Besides: All those organizations don't get their money out of thin air.
    It is the other population in your country (or the EU, but that means the
    other population in Europe) paying all of this.

    Nevertheless: A companies duty is not to be a caritative oprganization.
    A companies duty is to earn money to pay their employees.

    But we are way off topic right now. If I could make you think through
    this once again, I've done my job. When you start to
    earn your first money you will be surprised how many fix costs you
    will have. Things get worse when you marry and start to raise children :)

    And yes: I can understand your situation. It's not easy for a 17 year old.

    Keep up your studies. You are doing fine up to now. As we all know:
    education is the key to the future.

    --
    Karl Heinz Buchegger
    Karl Heinz Buchegger, Oct 15, 2004
    #15
  16. Tom Seim

    JKop Guest

    Re:


    > And yes: I can understand your situation. It's not easy for a 17 year
    > old.
    >
    > Keep up your studies. You are doing fine up to now. As we all know:
    > education is the key to the future.



    ....Opps! I left (the Irish equivalent of) high school in my last year. Now
    I'm working fulltime doing all the "computer stuff" for a decent sized
    company.

    There was no chance of me going straight into college in anyway... I wasn't
    going to go from 16 years of school and no money straight into another 4
    years of it. For now all I'm bothered about is getting a car...

    I have a college place for next year if I want to take it, it's for
    Electronic Engineering. Not sure if I'll take it. I don't want to get
    dragged into the whole "dumbed down" world of computing - Visual Basic, Java
    and the like.

    Time will tell...

    Just one other thing: I wouldn't feel very "enterprising" if I paid $500 for
    a product when I could just download it... maybe one day I'll relate to the
    big-time programmers and choose to pay over to download, but not soon.


    -JKop
    JKop, Oct 15, 2004
    #16
  17. Tom Seim wrote:
    > Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
    > tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
    > think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
    >
    > Don't waste your money on this crap!


    Actually, I believe it is a wonderful compiler. I just have
    issues with their Reliance on Delphi (especially AnsiString).

    My company bought me the Builder compiler. So I installed it
    on my desktop and registered the product. About a month later
    the company upgraded the PC to Win2K and cleared off all the
    applications in the process. I re-installed the compiler.
    It keeps asking me to register. I've tried too many times
    to register it. I can't remember my password for the
    registration. However it does know that somebody by my
    name has registered a product. It just can't send me
    my password (even though it says it can). Thus the registration
    always fails.

    I've sent emails to the address on the web site: no luck.
    I've posted in the newsgroups: still no luck.

    I just tell the compiler that I will register "some time
    later." (Whenever _they_ will fix their system.) So
    far the only difference is that when I minimize the
    application, it won't maximize unless I right click on
    the status bar and select "Restore".

    --
    Thomas Matthews

    C++ newsgroup welcome message:
    http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
    C++ Faq: http://www.parashift.com/c -faq-lite
    C Faq: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/c-faq/top.html
    alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq:
    http://www.comeaucomputing.com/learn/faq/
    Other sites:
    http://www.josuttis.com -- C++ STL Library book
    Thomas Matthews, Oct 15, 2004
    #17
  18. Tom Seim

    P.J. Plauger Guest

    "JKop" <> wrote in message
    news:1VNbd.37085$...

    >> Big man. You're taking food from the mouths of users of this
    >> newsgroup, many of whom rely on software sales to pay their
    >> salaries...

    >
    >
    > If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
    > World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
    > management problem!
    >
    > Anyway, I'm only 17. I've only gotten a full-time job within the last few
    > months; if I were to pay for all software and books I've used to gain the
    > knowledge I now have, then I wouldn't have been able to start learning to
    > programme at the age of 12 as I did. I myself believe that that is a bad
    > thing. If a 10 year old said to me "I want to programme, but I don't have
    > $500 for Visual Studio or money to buy a C++ book.", then all my ill-
    > feelings about "stealing" software go out the window. Whip out the CD-R's
    > and head down the library.


    Most developing countries gleefully ignore IP laws until they
    develop some of their own to sell. Then they suddenly get
    religion and demand protection of *their* IP in other countries.

    Most thieves are pretty proud of their acquisitions until
    somebody starts stealing from them. Your day will come.

    P.J. Plauger
    Dinkumware, Ltd.
    http://www.dinkumware.com
    P.J. Plauger, Oct 15, 2004
    #18
  19. Tom Seim

    Howard Guest

    "JKop" <> wrote in message
    news:5kNbd.37077$...
    > Tom Seim posted:
    >
    >> Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
    >> tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
    >> think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
    >>
    >> Don't waste your money on this crap!

    >
    > I've never paid for software.
    >
    > ...and I've got WinXP Pro, Microsoft Office, Microsoft Visual Studio 2003
    > .NET, among many many many others.
    >
    >
    > -JKop



    Software piracy is a crime. (As it should be.) You've just publicly
    admitted to being a criminal. I hope that makes you proud.

    -Howard
    Howard, Oct 15, 2004
    #19
  20. Tom Seim

    Julie Guest

    Re:

    JKop wrote:
    >
    > > And yes: I can understand your situation. It's not easy for a 17 year
    > > old.
    > >
    > > Keep up your studies. You are doing fine up to now. As we all know:
    > > education is the key to the future.

    >
    > ...Opps! I left (the Irish equivalent of) high school in my last year. Now
    > I'm working fulltime doing all the "computer stuff" for a decent sized
    > company.
    >
    > There was no chance of me going straight into college in anyway... I wasn't
    > going to go from 16 years of school and no money straight into another 4
    > years of it. For now all I'm bothered about is getting a car...


    Going to steal the car as well, I presume. Why not, those big, wealthy
    first-world insurance companies will just compensate the owner.
    Julie, Oct 15, 2004
    #20
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