Just wasted $60 on Borland

J

JKop

Tell your broke (and *lazy*) friend to go and get a job like the rest
of us. If he doesn't have money for a movie, he shouldn't be playing
hide-and-go-seek in your trunk, but should be out working.


Or... alternatively, he could sit in the trunk and go into the movie, watch
it, come home, and continue on with his life.

I really don't understand the moral implications here?

I really don't think there's any point arguing this any further, we're not
going to change on anothers' personalities.

I don't feel in any way immoral when I pirate software, nor would I feel
immoral if I didn't pay into a movie. That's my personality.


-JKop
 
J

JKop

Bob Hairgrove posted:
Law...

The only law I pay major heed to is the laws of physics.

Then I suppose you've heard of this one:
"The higher they climb, the harder they fall."

(source unknown [to me]).


Put it in context and I might pay attention.


-JKop
 
J

JKop

Good, I'll apologize for some of my more acrimonious remarks. Just to
make it clear, violation of copyright is wrong and there's no
justification for it.


In your opinion.


There's plenty of people out there who just simply don't give a shit. I'm
one of them. It's not that I'm saying there's nothing wrong with piracy, or
that I can justify it in some way; what I'm saying is that I just don't give
a shit either - I pirate the software and move on with my life!


-JKop
 
H

Howard

JKop said:
Or... alternatively, he could sit in the trunk and go into the movie,
watch
it, come home, and continue on with his life.

I really don't understand the moral implications here?

I really don't think there's any point arguing this any further, we're not
going to change on anothers' personalities.

I don't feel in any way immoral when I pirate software, nor would I feel
immoral if I didn't pay into a movie. That's my personality.


-JKop

Hmm... I wonder what your priest would say to the matter. (assuming, of
course...)

-Howrad
 
H

Howard

JKop said:
In your opinion.


There's plenty of people out there who just simply don't give a shit. I'm
one of them. It's not that I'm saying there's nothing wrong with piracy,
or
that I can justify it in some way; what I'm saying is that I just don't
give
a shit either - I pirate the software and move on with my life!

Then hopefully one day a lawyer will sue your ass, take what little money
you have, and get on with *his* life! :)
 
J

JKop

Hmm... I wonder what your priest would say to the matter. (assuming,
of course...)


I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in religion.

My opinion is that God is Santa Clause for adults.


-JKop
 
J

JKop

Then hopefully one day a lawyer will sue your ass, take what little
money you have, and get on with *his* life! :)


By the laws of physics he's welcome to try!


-JKop
 
D

Default User

Julie wrote:

Part of the cost of software includes $$ lost due to piracy.

I'm paying for someone else stealing.

Rationalize that one away.

Please see my response to Howard. I in no way condoned the violation. I
merely pointed out that the analogy (stealing a car) was not a good one.
Tell your broke (and lazy) friend to go and get a job like the rest
of us. If he doesn't have money for a movie, he shouldn't be playing
hide-and-go-seek in your trunk, but should be out working.

Please actually READ what I had to say and compare with what you wrote.
Did you see the line that says, "Wrong, yes, definitely"?

As I said to Howard, I can dispute the analogy and some conclusions
without supporting the main action.



Brian Rodenborn
 
M

Mike Wahler

JKop said:
In your opinion.


There's plenty of people out there who just simply don't give a shit. I'm
one of them. It's not that I'm saying there's nothing wrong with piracy, or
that I can justify it in some way; what I'm saying is that I just don't give
a shit either - I pirate the software and move on with my life!

Because of your blatant disregard for and professed violations of
the individual rights of others, I hereby ostracise you and strongly
encourage others to do the same.

*PLONK*

-Mike
 
J

Julie

JKop said:
In your opinion.

There's plenty of people out there who just simply don't give a shit. I'm
one of them.

You, and those types of people aren't welcome in a civilized society.

Have you ever stopped and thought what the world would be like if everyone had
your attitude? The world wouldn't be, and neither would you.
 
O

Old Wolf

Gary Labowitz said:
Your youth is showing. Bringing up this old, and misunderstood, question
shows lack of depth.
The answer to this question is yes or no. And the answer depends on what the
questor means by "make a sound."

If by "make a sound" one means the creation of the imminent cause of sound,
namely the wave produced in the surrounding media by compression and
expansion of the media by a disturbance in the media, then the answer is
yes.

I thought this question was meant to be an illustration of
a principle in quantum physics. During the fall there was
a linear superposition of disturbance-caused and no-disturbance-
caused , which was not resolved by an observation, and could
even still exist. So it is not correct to say that there
was or was not a sound.
 
K

karen

JKop said:
Duane Hebert posted:



Not really. Maybe I'm just a bit selfish?

Maybe?! Ya think?

BTW, just because you don't believe in moral laws and choose to disregard
social laws doesn't mean that they don't exist or don't apply. Your belief
or disbelief in them doesn't affect them at all.

-karen
 
J

JKop

karen posted:
Maybe?! Ya think?

BTW, just because you don't believe in moral laws and choose to
disregard social laws doesn't mean that they don't exist or don't
apply. Your belief or disbelief in them doesn't affect them at all.

-karen


At the end of the day, the laws of physics govern all! If they want to do
something about me, they'll have to do something physical!


-JKop
 
G

glen stark

JKop wrote:
Nice to see some objective reasoning.


-JKop

Yeah, actually that's what pisses me off about you're attitude.
Copyright and 'intelectual property' rights issues are completely out of
control, and a lot of people are doing a lot of good work to try to
combat this, and amoral, self centered little snots like you running
around saying "I just don't give a shit", just gives ammunition to the
other side.

The ability to ignore the consequences or implications of your actions
does not justify them. I'm not telling you not to pirate software, I
just wish you wouldn't advertise the fact that you do so, since your
attitude is quite harmful to those of us who are concerned about free
software and the public domain.

Being amoral and self centered isn't something to brag about, and yet so
many people do...
 
J

JKop

glen stark posted:

Yeah, actually that's what pisses me off about you're attitude.
Copyright and 'intelectual property' rights issues are completely out of
control, and a lot of people are doing a lot of good work to try to
combat this, and amoral, self centered little snots like you running
around saying "I just don't give a shit", just gives ammunition to the
other side.

Would you prefer if I were dishonest and said that I actually *did* care and
hadn't been sleeping right since I did it? I prefer not to lie.
The ability to ignore the consequences or implications of your actions
does not justify them. I'm not telling you not to pirate software, I
just wish you wouldn't advertise the fact that you do so, since your
attitude is quite harmful to those of us who are concerned about free
software and the public domain.

I'm not trying to justify my actions. I'm not offering any explanation
whatsoever for my actions. When an adult male lion rips a lion cub apart so
that the female will be forced to mate again, does he offer "justification"?

You wish that I wouldn't advertise the fact that I pirate software (I
actually pirate a lot of things, eg. music, movies); I feel that it would be
more harmful if people were intimidated into not expressing themselves and
were coerced into being dishonest. The truth is that I pirate.
Being amoral and self centered isn't something to brag about, and yet so
many people do...


The concept of "amoral" is subjective. My concept of it is obviously
different from yours. For instance, here's a little look at my personality:

While I wouldn't consider robbing a bank to be amoral, still, if after
robbing the bank, the robber got out and hopped into the get-away car, but
then when he/she was about to pull off, if there was a pregnant mother and a
small child crossing the road, and the robber just accelerated and crashed
straight into and through them and keep going, then I myself would think
that is "amoral".

Other people here may think that robbing a bank is amoral.

Others may think that crashing into the pregnant mother and the small child
is not all amoral.

It's a fundamental part of one's personality.

I myself would rob the bank, but I wouldn't crash into the pedestrians on
the way out.

-JKop
 
M

Mike Wahler

glen stark said:
Being amoral and self centered isn't something to brag about, and yet so
many people do...

Nit:

immoral: not moral

amoral: not applicable to moral issues.

JKop's piracy is immoral (and criminal
in most jurisdictions).

-Mike
 
M

Mabden

Howard said:
I'm not missing the point at all. It's wrong. Period. Using any kind of
analysis to "justify" a wrong action is irrelevant. It's still wrong. It's
theft, according to law (and according to any reasonable ethic, as far as
I'm concerned). You are free to argue what the actual *cost* of a specific
instance of piracy is to a given company, but the fact is that software
piracy does cost the sotware industry a vast amount of money.

A serious problem with your analogy is that when everyone else sees you
sneaking your friend into the drive-in, they do it, too. It has little to
do with inability to pay, it's a matter of thinking "why bother paying if I
can get it free"? So you see all your friends copying music or software for
free, and you do it, too. It multiplies over time.

It's illegal. And it most definitely reduces sales.

Well, yes and no. A fella might have two friends who played games. I - I
mean He - might like puzzle games, while his friend might like flight
simulators, and the other one like FPS. Each wouldn't buy the game the
others' liked, but might like to try out Red Baron or Dragonstrike for a
few missions just to keep one's hand in, so to speak. I - I mean He -
probably didn't play the game any more than a demo would allow,
especially since Dragonstrike was probably too advanced for his system
at the time. And perhaps he didn't play Duke Nukem more than a level or
two, but cause him to buy Shadow Warrior (coool game!) by the same
company.

It's like downloading (stealing?) music. Music is free. I can listen to
all the new songs I want from the radio for free. I can even tape record
them. If I download a song now from some band I would never have heard
of otherwise (Maroon 5 comes to mind), perhaps I will go ahead and buy
it to hear more, or the next one to hear their new effort without
waiting for a download. Or maybe I'll go to a concert because I liked
the downloaded song. It's called advertising.
I have a 30GB hard disk full of songs I got from a friend sitting in a
drawer. I listened to some of it once, but it's all rap and hip hop and
not "my thing". Does the fact that I have music I hate sitting in a
drawer, not connected to a computer constitute a crime? Am I stealing
from Big Ditty Shaka or whomever?! I think not.

All that said, I write software. If you have a color Palm you can
download my free Ishido game here: http://www.sitenook.com/
You have to know how to play, because there's no help (Google will tell
you how), but I have a newer version with more features, but I don't
know how to make any money from it, since anyone who loads it on their
Palm can "beam" it to anyone else. I would like a token amount, like
$3-$10, but I can't see any way to "make / force" people to pay me.

It's a tough issue, and I have no solution, but I can't conclude that
every copy of any media is a theft of actual monetary value.
 
M

Mabden

JKop said:
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in religion.

My opinion is that God is Santa Clause for adults.

Obviously you are completely wrong, once again.

Santa gives presents every year.

God never does - it says in the Bible that we are all sinners, ie Lake
of Fire time, everyone. Smell you later.
 
J

JKop

Mabden posted:
Obviously you are completely wrong, once again.

Santa gives presents every year.

God never does - it says in the Bible that we are all sinners, ie Lake
of Fire time, everyone. Smell you later.


Yeah... but you get the idea.


-JKop
 

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