K&R Wishlist

N

newby2c

My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:

1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!
2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.
4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.
5. A listing of C related web sites.
6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.
7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.
8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.
9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).
10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.
 
K

Keith Thompson

newby2c said:
My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:

1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!
2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.
4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.

Umm, ok.
5. A listing of C related web sites.

I don't think a hardcopy book is the best place for a list of web
sites. There's already a web page for the book.
6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.
7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.

That's not really C, but it has a chapter on Unix so I guess I
wouldn't mind.
8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.
9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).

Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
exercises. I've seen a "C Answer Book"; putting the anwers in a
separate book seems like a good compromise.
 
E

Eric Sosman

newby2c said:
My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:

1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!
2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.
4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.
5. A listing of C related web sites.
6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.
7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.
8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.
9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).
10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.

Sounds wonderful. After Mr. K. and Mr. R. have done all
the work to produce this marvelous new thing, please tell me
where I can download it for free. In Urdu, if possible.
 
C

Chris Hills

My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:

1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!
There are other books out there already.

When K&R did V 1 it was their language.

When they did V2 they were major players in the panel that did it.

Now C99 is produced by a world wide group of panels... so a K&R3 would
be no more authoritative than many other books.
2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.
OK but there are no widely used compilers working to this.
4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.
Here is the competition, buy these? Besides new books come put all the
time and other go out of print all the time.
5. A listing of C related web sites.
These change daily. As do their content and accuracy
6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text. OK

7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.

Why? A waste of paper. This is available "everywhere"
8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.

That is already a separate book by some one else.
9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).
No thanks. It is a reference book No questions let alone answers.
10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.
"Everything" in half the size.

Don't want much do you?
 
N

newby2c

Chris said:
There are other books out there already.

And this is why a 3rd edition should not be published? According to
your statement then, you think the 2nd edition should not have been
published.
When K&R did V 1 it was their language.

When they did V2 they were major players in the panel that did it.

Now C99 is produced by a world wide group of panels... so a K&R3 would
be no more authoritative than many other books.

That may be true, but I still don't see why a 3rd edition could not be
done.
Here is the competition, buy these? Besides new books come put all the
time and other go out of print all the time.

This is a joke, right? 99.9% of the books I own, have references to
other texts within them.
These change daily. As do their content and accuracy

Good point.
Why? A waste of paper. This is available "everywhere"

Yes. However, it would be nice if the information needed could be found
in one source. Remember, this is *my* wishlist. Yours would, quite
naturally, be different.
That is already a separate book by some one else.

Again, it would be nice to have the info in *one* text.
No thanks. It is a reference book No questions let alone answers.

Ok, that's a personal preference. But if a book has questions (like K&R
does), then there should be answers.
"Everything" in half the size.

Don't want much do you?

Again, this is *my* personal wishlist.

newby2c
 
C

Chris Hills

And this is why a 3rd edition should not be published? According to
your statement then, you think the 2nd edition should not have been
published.

No. The second edition came out before the standard and was the first
book on C90. Now there are many books on C.
That may be true, but I still don't see why a 3rd edition could not be
done.


This is a joke, right? 99.9% of the books I own, have references to
other texts within them.

Not a joke. The references are just that. Reference the text make to
other books. Usually to a specific edition and page. It is not a list of
"other books".

All books have references to other material they cite. If they don't
reference other works directly then they don't list them.

What are you asking for? lists of other books on c that are not
specifically referenced in the text? Then my point stands.

Good point.


Yes. However, it would be nice if the information needed could be found
in one source. Remember, this is *my* wishlist. Yours would, quite
naturally, be different.

OK.

Again, it would be nice to have the info in *one* text.

Then you want two books in one volume?

Ok, that's a personal preference. But if a book has questions (like K&R
does), then there should be answers.

Agreed.
Though I prefer not questions at all.
 
S

Stan Milam

Keith said:
Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
exercises. I've seen a "C Answer Book"; putting the anwers in a
separate book seems like a good compromise.

The instructors should come up with their own damn problems for students
to solve!
 
R

Randy Howard

Stan Milam wrote
(in article said:
The instructors should come up with their own damn problems for students
to solve!

We've seen plenty of examples of what happens when instructors
make up their own questions. They get posted here, then railed
on for being completely in violation of the holy C standard.
Given the quality of what is being taught today, they should
just stop bothering altogether.
 
M

Mabden

Randy Howard said:
We've seen plenty of examples of what happens when instructors
make up their own questions. They get posted here, then railed
on for being completely in violation of the holy C standard.
Given the quality of what is being taught today, they should
just stop bothering altogether.
"They should just stop bothering."


Perhaps we need to create a fund to pay people who can teach, the money
it is worth to do it. I would call it "taxes", but that has already been
taken.

Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead Sea
Linguistics" at a local Community College.
 
K

Keith Thompson

Mabden said:
Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead Sea
Linguistics" at a local Community College.

Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
your "humor". Followups redirected.
 
M

Mabden

Keith Thompson said:
Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
your "humor".
Followups redirected.
coward. Denigratenator. And such.

Keith,

I respect you are a very knowledgeable person who knows more about C
minutia than me. I study C and your input and converse is part of why I
consider myself expert (yes, I really do...). However, your opinions
change my coding style and content for the better.

You need to realize that you are responding to my posts with negative
comments. You are the mostly the FIRST poster. Why can you not just wait
a day or three, and let others post first. I am not writing personal
messages to you on the newsgroup. It's OK to ignore ones you don't like.
Let some others post before you chime in and "poison the well" with your
negative comments, please.

Here are the comments you make on my posts. Note that there is less
content than my post:
=====
"Please consider increasing your signal-to-noise ratio."
"Let us know when you have something useful to add to the discussion."
"No."
"I see you've been posting a lot today. Unless I've missed something,
you have said *nothing* topical. A little joking around is ok, but
could you *try* to talk about C? Maybe you could start by shooting for
a 50% topicality ratio"
"Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
your "humor"." (note: it was not you or your name that was used, but
someone else. In fact I doubt your father was even named Thomp!)
=====
Keith, I don't drag you in - you butted in! This forum is just a Q & A
session amongst friends. Stop trying to control the content of
professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework questions
from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job! You are too
sensitive, and too controlling. You are wrong and you are anal.

Please stop harassing me with negative comments.

Any comments about mistakes are VERY welcome; I value your input. I care
NOT about your criticism about whether my post is "funny", "amusing",
"on [or off] topic", or any other negative comment. I get it! You don't
like some of my posts.

Here's a chart to spell it out:

A. Don't read them
B. Shut up!
C. Have I been WRONG??? Am I putting out bad info????
D. Are you NUTS?
e. There is no e.
F. **** You - it's the Internet! Stop following me!
G. Get a Life
H. + double hockey sticks. The place I will see you in after you die
I. The REAL problem here! - hey wait!
J. Joke implies a sense humor which you don't seem to posssesss (how do
you spell that anyways?)
K. Killfile (but really, please don't - I respect your opinion when you
aren't menstruating)
L. Lame posts.
M. ME. I look for info to help ME. Homework does not help ME.
N. Newbies don't interest ME. See above.
O. Oh, you got this far? Well, then you got to the end.
 
N

Nick Keighley

Mabden said:
coward. Denigratenator. And such.

isn't this getting a tad personal?


This forum is just a Q & A session amongst friends.

where is it written that we have to be friends?

Stop trying to control the content of
professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework questions
from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job! You are too
sensitive, and too controlling. You are wrong and you are anal.

this is a technical forum, pleasde try to keep the politics to a dull
roar. We are not all American.

<snip>


PLONK!
 
M

Mabden

Nick Keighley said:
isn't this getting a tad personal?

Well, I think that's my point. Every time (almost - don't invoke the KT
corrector) I post a comment, I get a KT comment.
where is it written that we have to be friends?

Hey, great way to miss the point! Good one! You're really helping...
this is a technical forum, pleasde try to keep the politics to a dull
roar. We are not all American.

**** off - I am not American!

OH!!! Only Americans are losing jobs to outsourcing! You don't by any
chance run WindowsErie or Fenettre or WindowsChocolate do you???!

You have never in [country you exist in] dialed a telephone?!!

I am NOT American, asshole! I mean, I am not an American asshole! Well,
I might be an asshole, but I'm not American!!! But, well, you figure it
out, Dicknose.

Sorry, your plonk is restricted to USA DNS ISP CIA ISM.

I nicked a keighley once, but it weren't worth shit.
 
M

Michael Mair

<snip: Insults interspersed with pseudo-objective drivel>

You have more than once stated that you want to annoy people into
whatever. Now that Keith seems to get under your skin, you seem
to have a problem with that.
Maybe, if you stopped to try to be funny and if Keith turned down
his level of what you seem to perceive as his policing you, then
you could coexist and both enjoy the exchange round here.

Otherwise, I look at the usefulness of the respective messages.
The stats are IMO against you, Mabden.


Cheers
Michael
 
W

Walter Roberson

This forum is just a Q & A
session amongst friends.

I'd be hard-pressed to name a single personal thing about any of
the regular posters (other than a -little- about the work history of
one or two posters.) I -suspect- I've met a small number of the lurkers,
but that's about it. I doubt any of the posters or lurkers even knows
what my favorite kind of beer is.
Stop trying to control the content of
professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework questions
from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job!

I work for a scientific research organization filled with scientists.
The historical culture of science is the *sharing* of knowledge.
Sometimes we end up with a patent along the way, but whether we do or
not, we publish the research papers! "Knowledge transfer" is one of the
mandates of our organization. We actively work with and train
researchers and medical establishments in other countries.

When I am posting a reply, where the original poster is from matters
to me only if knowing that helps me to understand their English --
or if the topic turns towards legalities and matters of jurisdiction
come up.

If someone in a "third world country" wants to "steal my job"
by posting tens of thousands of considered and researched technical
messages, then perhaps I could squeeze in a few days of holidays before
turning my attention to something else.
 
P

pete

Mabden said:
"Keith Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
Here are the comments you make on my posts. Note that there is less
content than my post:
=====
"Please consider increasing your signal-to-noise ratio."
"Let us know when you have something useful to add to the discussion."
"I see you've been posting a lot today. Unless I've missed something,
you have said *nothing* topical. A little joking around is ok, but
could you *try* to talk about C? Maybe you could start by shooting
for a 50% topicality ratio"

I have opinions similar to Keith Thompson's,
but it's tedious to enforce topicality all of the time.

Thank you Keith.
 
M

Mabden

Walter Roberson said:
I'd be hard-pressed to name a single personal thing about any of
the regular posters (other than a -little- about the work history of
one or two posters.) I -suspect- I've met a small number of the lurkers,
but that's about it. I doubt any of the posters or lurkers even knows
what my favorite kind of beer is.

Newcastle on occasion. Generally Bass because it is available.
 
R

Randy Howard

Mabden wrote
(in article said:
Here's a chart to spell it out:

That's enough whining and cursing. I *used* to recommend that
young student programmers hang out here and lurk to pick up
useful information, but can no longer do that with a clean
conscience. People like you have made Usenet the "MTV" of the
internet.

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen, but this
is not alt.flame.

*plonk*
 
M

Mabden

Randy Howard said:
Mabden wrote


That's enough whining and cursing.

I agree. Sorry. I just get annoyed when I can't say anything without a
KT comment afterwards...
 

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