K&R Wishlist

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by newby2c, Sep 29, 2005.

  1. newby2c

    newby2c Guest

    My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:

    1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!
    2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
    3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.
    4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.
    5. A listing of C related web sites.
    6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.
    7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.
    8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.
    9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).
    10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.
     
    newby2c, Sep 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. "newby2c" <> writes:
    > My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:
    >
    > 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!
    > 2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
    > 3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.
    > 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.


    Umm, ok.

    > 5. A listing of C related web sites.


    I don't think a hardcopy book is the best place for a list of web
    sites. There's already a web page for the book.

    > 6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.
    > 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.


    That's not really C, but it has a chapter on Unix so I guess I
    wouldn't mind.

    > 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.
    > 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).


    Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
    exercises. I've seen a "C Answer Book"; putting the anwers in a
    separate book seems like a good compromise.

    > 10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.


    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
    We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
     
    Keith Thompson, Sep 29, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. newby2c

    Eric Sosman Guest

    newby2c wrote:

    > My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:
    >
    > 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!
    > 2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
    > 3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.
    > 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.
    > 5. A listing of C related web sites.
    > 6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.
    > 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.
    > 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.
    > 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).
    > 10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.


    Sounds wonderful. After Mr. K. and Mr. R. have done all
    the work to produce this marvelous new thing, please tell me
    where I can download it for free. In Urdu, if possible.

    --
    Eric Sosman
    lid
     
    Eric Sosman, Sep 29, 2005
    #3
  4. newby2c

    Chris Hills Guest

    In article <>,
    newby2c <> writes
    > My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:
    >
    > 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!

    There are other books out there already.

    When K&R did V 1 it was their language.

    When they did V2 they were major players in the panel that did it.

    Now C99 is produced by a world wide group of panels... so a K&R3 would
    be no more authoritative than many other books.

    > 2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
    > 3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.

    OK but there are no widely used compilers working to this.

    > 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.

    Here is the competition, buy these? Besides new books come put all the
    time and other go out of print all the time.

    > 5. A listing of C related web sites.

    These change daily. As do their content and accuracy

    > 6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.

    OK

    > 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.


    Why? A waste of paper. This is available "everywhere"

    > 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.


    That is already a separate book by some one else.

    > 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).

    No thanks. It is a reference book No questions let alone answers.

    >10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.

    "Everything" in half the size.

    Don't want much do you?



    --
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
    \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
    /\/\/ www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
     
    Chris Hills, Sep 29, 2005
    #4
  5. newby2c

    newby2c Guest

    Keith Thompson wrote:

    > > 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).

    >
    > Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
    > exercises.


    That's a good point.

    newby2c
     
    newby2c, Sep 29, 2005
    #5
  6. newby2c

    newby2c Guest

    Chris Hills wrote:

    > >
    > > 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!

    > There are other books out there already.


    And this is why a 3rd edition should not be published? According to
    your statement then, you think the 2nd edition should not have been
    published.

    > When K&R did V 1 it was their language.
    >
    > When they did V2 they were major players in the panel that did it.
    >
    > Now C99 is produced by a world wide group of panels... so a K&R3 would
    > be no more authoritative than many other books.


    That may be true, but I still don't see why a 3rd edition could not be
    done.

    > > 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.

    > Here is the competition, buy these? Besides new books come put all the
    > time and other go out of print all the time.


    This is a joke, right? 99.9% of the books I own, have references to
    other texts within them.

    > > 5. A listing of C related web sites.

    > These change daily. As do their content and accuracy


    Good point.

    > > 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.

    >
    > Why? A waste of paper. This is available "everywhere"


    Yes. However, it would be nice if the information needed could be found
    in one source. Remember, this is *my* wishlist. Yours would, quite
    naturally, be different.

    > > 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.

    >
    > That is already a separate book by some one else.


    Again, it would be nice to have the info in *one* text.

    > > 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).

    > No thanks. It is a reference book No questions let alone answers.


    Ok, that's a personal preference. But if a book has questions (like K&R
    does), then there should be answers.

    > >10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.

    > "Everything" in half the size.
    >
    > Don't want much do you?


    Again, this is *my* personal wishlist.

    newby2c
     
    newby2c, Sep 29, 2005
    #6
  7. newby2c

    Chris Hills Guest

    In article <>,
    newby2c <> writes
    >
    >Chris Hills wrote:
    >
    >> >
    >> > 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!

    >> There are other books out there already.

    >
    >And this is why a 3rd edition should not be published? According to
    >your statement then, you think the 2nd edition should not have been
    >published.


    No. The second edition came out before the standard and was the first
    book on C90. Now there are many books on C.

    >
    >> When K&R did V 1 it was their language.
    >>
    >> When they did V2 they were major players in the panel that did it.
    >>
    >> Now C99 is produced by a world wide group of panels... so a K&R3 would
    >> be no more authoritative than many other books.

    >
    >That may be true, but I still don't see why a 3rd edition could not be
    >done.
    >
    >> > 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.

    >> Here is the competition, buy these? Besides new books come put all the
    >> time and other go out of print all the time.

    >
    >This is a joke, right? 99.9% of the books I own, have references to
    >other texts within them.


    Not a joke. The references are just that. Reference the text make to
    other books. Usually to a specific edition and page. It is not a list of
    "other books".

    All books have references to other material they cite. If they don't
    reference other works directly then they don't list them.

    What are you asking for? lists of other books on c that are not
    specifically referenced in the text? Then my point stands.


    >
    >> > 5. A listing of C related web sites.

    >> These change daily. As do their content and accuracy

    >
    >Good point.
    >
    >> > 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.

    >>
    >> Why? A waste of paper. This is available "everywhere"

    >
    >Yes. However, it would be nice if the information needed could be found
    >in one source. Remember, this is *my* wishlist. Yours would, quite
    >naturally, be different.


    OK.


    >> > 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.

    >>
    >> That is already a separate book by some one else.

    >
    >Again, it would be nice to have the info in *one* text.


    Then you want two books in one volume?


    >
    >> > 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).

    >> No thanks. It is a reference book No questions let alone answers.

    >
    >Ok, that's a personal preference. But if a book has questions (like K&R
    >does), then there should be answers.


    Agreed.
    Though I prefer not questions at all.

    >> >10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.

    >> "Everything" in half the size.
    >>
    >> Don't want much do you?

    >
    >Again, this is *my* personal wishlist.
    >
    >newby2c
    >


    --
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
    \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
    /\/\/ www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
     
    Chris Hills, Sep 29, 2005
    #7
  8. newby2c

    Stan Milam Guest

    Keith Thompson wrote:
    > "newby2c" <> writes:


    >> 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).

    >
    >
    > Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
    > exercises. I've seen a "C Answer Book"; putting the anwers in a
    > separate book seems like a good compromise.
    >


    The instructors should come up with their own damn problems for students
    to solve!
     
    Stan Milam, Sep 30, 2005
    #8
  9. newby2c

    Randy Howard Guest

    Stan Milam wrote
    (in article <ox2%e.1478$>):

    > Keith Thompson wrote:
    >> "newby2c" <> writes:

    >
    >>> 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).

    >>
    >>
    >> Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
    >> exercises. I've seen a "C Answer Book"; putting the anwers in a
    >> separate book seems like a good compromise.
    >>

    >
    > The instructors should come up with their own damn problems for students
    > to solve!


    We've seen plenty of examples of what happens when instructors
    make up their own questions. They get posted here, then railed
    on for being completely in violation of the holy C standard.
    Given the quality of what is being taught today, they should
    just stop bothering altogether.



    --
    Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
     
    Randy Howard, Oct 1, 2005
    #9
  10. newby2c

    Mabden Guest

    "Randy Howard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > We've seen plenty of examples of what happens when instructors
    > make up their own questions. They get posted here, then railed
    > on for being completely in violation of the holy C standard.
    > Given the quality of what is being taught today, they should
    > just stop bothering altogether.
    >

    "They should just stop bothering."


    Perhaps we need to create a fund to pay people who can teach, the money
    it is worth to do it. I would call it "taxes", but that has already been
    taken.

    Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
    topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead Sea
    Linguistics" at a local Community College.

    --
    Mabden
     
    Mabden, Oct 2, 2005
    #10
  11. "Mabden" <mabden@sbc_global.net> writes:
    [...]
    > Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
    > topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead Sea
    > Linguistics" at a local Community College.


    Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
    your "humor". Followups redirected.

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
    We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
     
    Keith Thompson, Oct 2, 2005
    #11
  12. newby2c

    Mabden Guest

    KeithT is Trolling me.

    "Keith Thompson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Mabden" <mabden@sbc_global.net> writes:
    > [...]
    > > Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
    > > topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead

    Sea
    > > Linguistics" at a local Community College.

    >
    > Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
    > your "humor".


    > Followups redirected.

    coward. Denigratenator. And such.

    Keith,

    I respect you are a very knowledgeable person who knows more about C
    minutia than me. I study C and your input and converse is part of why I
    consider myself expert (yes, I really do...). However, your opinions
    change my coding style and content for the better.

    You need to realize that you are responding to my posts with negative
    comments. You are the mostly the FIRST poster. Why can you not just wait
    a day or three, and let others post first. I am not writing personal
    messages to you on the newsgroup. It's OK to ignore ones you don't like.
    Let some others post before you chime in and "poison the well" with your
    negative comments, please.

    Here are the comments you make on my posts. Note that there is less
    content than my post:
    =====
    "Please consider increasing your signal-to-noise ratio."
    "Let us know when you have something useful to add to the discussion."
    "No."
    "I see you've been posting a lot today. Unless I've missed something,
    you have said *nothing* topical. A little joking around is ok, but
    could you *try* to talk about C? Maybe you could start by shooting for
    a 50% topicality ratio"
    "Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
    your "humor"." (note: it was not you or your name that was used, but
    someone else. In fact I doubt your father was even named Thomp!)
    =====
    Keith, I don't drag you in - you butted in! This forum is just a Q & A
    session amongst friends. Stop trying to control the content of
    professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework questions
    from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
    yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job! You are too
    sensitive, and too controlling. You are wrong and you are anal.

    Please stop harassing me with negative comments.

    Any comments about mistakes are VERY welcome; I value your input. I care
    NOT about your criticism about whether my post is "funny", "amusing",
    "on [or off] topic", or any other negative comment. I get it! You don't
    like some of my posts.

    Here's a chart to spell it out:

    A. Don't read them
    B. Shut up!
    C. Have I been WRONG??? Am I putting out bad info????
    D. Are you NUTS?
    e. There is no e.
    F. **** You - it's the Internet! Stop following me!
    G. Get a Life
    H. + double hockey sticks. The place I will see you in after you die
    I. The REAL problem here! - hey wait!
    J. Joke implies a sense humor which you don't seem to posssesss (how do
    you spell that anyways?)
    K. Killfile (but really, please don't - I respect your opinion when you
    aren't menstruating)
    L. Lame posts.
    M. ME. I look for info to help ME. Homework does not help ME.
    N. Newbies don't interest ME. See above.
    O. Oh, you got this far? Well, then you got to the end.


    --
    Mabden
     
    Mabden, Oct 3, 2005
    #12
  13. Re: KeithT is Trolling me.

    Mabden wrote:
    > "Keith Thompson" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > "Mabden" <mabden@sbc_global.net> writes:


    > > > Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
    > > > topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead
    > > > Sea Linguistics" at a local Community College.

    > >
    > > Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
    > > your "humor".

    >
    > > Followups redirected.

    > coward. Denigratenator. And such.


    isn't this getting a tad personal?


    <snip rant>

    > This forum is just a Q & A session amongst friends.


    where is it written that we have to be friends?


    > Stop trying to control the content of
    > professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework questions
    > from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
    > yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job! You are too
    > sensitive, and too controlling. You are wrong and you are anal.


    this is a technical forum, pleasde try to keep the politics to a dull
    roar. We are not all American.

    <snip>


    PLONK!


    --
    Nick Keighley
     
    Nick Keighley, Oct 3, 2005
    #13
  14. newby2c

    Mabden Guest

    I nicked an asshole

    "Nick Keighley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mabden wrote:
    > > "Keith Thompson" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > "Mabden" <mabden@sbc_global.net> writes:

    >
    > > > > Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing

    humor (a
    > > > > topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on

    "Dead
    > > > > Sea Linguistics" at a local Community College.
    > > >
    > > > Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name

    into
    > > > your "humor".

    > >
    > > > Followups redirected.

    > > coward. Denigratenator. And such.

    >
    > isn't this getting a tad personal?


    Well, I think that's my point. Every time (almost - don't invoke the KT
    corrector) I post a comment, I get a KT comment.
    >
    > > This forum is just a Q & A session amongst friends.

    >
    > where is it written that we have to be friends?


    Hey, great way to miss the point! Good one! You're really helping...

    >
    > > Stop trying to control the content of
    > > professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework

    questions
    > > from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
    > > yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job! You are

    too
    > > sensitive, and too controlling. You are wrong and you are anal.

    >
    > this is a technical forum, pleasde try to keep the politics to a dull
    > roar. We are not all American.


    **** off - I am not American!

    OH!!! Only Americans are losing jobs to outsourcing! You don't by any
    chance run WindowsErie or Fenettre or WindowsChocolate do you???!

    You have never in [country you exist in] dialed a telephone?!!

    I am NOT American, asshole! I mean, I am not an American asshole! Well,
    I might be an asshole, but I'm not American!!! But, well, you figure it
    out, Dicknose.

    >
    > PLONK!
    >


    Sorry, your plonk is restricted to USA DNS ISP CIA ISM.

    >
    > --
    > Nick Keighley
    >


    I nicked a keighley once, but it weren't worth shit.
     
    Mabden, Oct 3, 2005
    #14
  15. newby2c

    Michael Mair Guest

    Re: KeithT is Trolling me.

    Mabden wrote:
    > "Keith Thompson" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>"Mabden" <mabden@sbc_global.net> writes:
    >>[...]
    >>
    >>>Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
    >>>topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead

    >
    > Sea
    >
    >>>Linguistics" at a local Community College.

    >>
    >>Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
    >>your "humor".

    >
    >>Followups redirected.

    >

    <snip: Insults interspersed with pseudo-objective drivel>

    You have more than once stated that you want to annoy people into
    whatever. Now that Keith seems to get under your skin, you seem
    to have a problem with that.
    Maybe, if you stopped to try to be funny and if Keith turned down
    his level of what you seem to perceive as his policing you, then
    you could coexist and both enjoy the exchange round here.

    Otherwise, I look at the usefulness of the respective messages.
    The stats are IMO against you, Mabden.


    Cheers
    Michael
    --
    E-Mail: Mine is an /at/ gmx /dot/ de address.
     
    Michael Mair, Oct 3, 2005
    #15
  16. Re: [OT] KeithT is Trolling me.

    In article <Vu70f.169$>,
    Mabden <mabden@sbc_global.net> wrote:
    >This forum is just a Q & A
    >session amongst friends.


    I'd be hard-pressed to name a single personal thing about any of
    the regular posters (other than a -little- about the work history of
    one or two posters.) I -suspect- I've met a small number of the lurkers,
    but that's about it. I doubt any of the posters or lurkers even knows
    what my favorite kind of beer is.

    >Stop trying to control the content of
    >professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework questions
    >from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
    >yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job!


    I work for a scientific research organization filled with scientists.
    The historical culture of science is the *sharing* of knowledge.
    Sometimes we end up with a patent along the way, but whether we do or
    not, we publish the research papers! "Knowledge transfer" is one of the
    mandates of our organization. We actively work with and train
    researchers and medical establishments in other countries.

    When I am posting a reply, where the original poster is from matters
    to me only if knowing that helps me to understand their English --
    or if the topic turns towards legalities and matters of jurisdiction
    come up.

    If someone in a "third world country" wants to "steal my job"
    by posting tens of thousands of considered and researched technical
    messages, then perhaps I could squeeze in a few days of holidays before
    turning my attention to something else.
    --
    Programming is what happens while you're busy making other plans.
     
    Walter Roberson, Oct 3, 2005
    #16
  17. newby2c

    pete Guest

    Re: KeithT is Trolling me.

    Mabden wrote:
    >
    > "Keith Thompson" <> wrote in message


    > Here are the comments you make on my posts. Note that there is less
    > content than my post:
    > =====
    > "Please consider increasing your signal-to-noise ratio."


    > "Let us know when you have something useful to add to the discussion."


    > "I see you've been posting a lot today. Unless I've missed something,
    > you have said *nothing* topical. A little joking around is ok, but
    > could you *try* to talk about C? Maybe you could start by shooting
    > for a 50% topicality ratio"


    I have opinions similar to Keith Thompson's,
    but it's tedious to enforce topicality all of the time.

    Thank you Keith.

    --
    pete
     
    pete, Oct 3, 2005
    #17
  18. newby2c

    Mabden Guest

    Re: [OT] KeithT is Trolling me.

    "Walter Roberson" <-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
    news:dhrbks$j71$...
    > In article <Vu70f.169$>,
    > Mabden <mabden@sbc_global.net> wrote:
    > >This forum is just a Q & A
    > >session amongst friends.

    >
    > I'd be hard-pressed to name a single personal thing about any of
    > the regular posters (other than a -little- about the work history of
    > one or two posters.) I -suspect- I've met a small number of the

    lurkers,
    > but that's about it. I doubt any of the posters or lurkers even knows
    > what my favorite kind of beer is.


    Newcastle on occasion. Generally Bass because it is available.

    --
    Mabden
     
    Mabden, Oct 3, 2005
    #18
  19. newby2c

    Randy Howard Guest

    Re: KeithT is Trolling me.

    Mabden wrote
    (in article <Vu70f.169$>):

    > Here's a chart to spell it out:


    That's enough whining and cursing. I *used* to recommend that
    young student programmers hang out here and lurk to pick up
    useful information, but can no longer do that with a clean
    conscience. People like you have made Usenet the "MTV" of the
    internet.

    If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen, but this
    is not alt.flame.

    *plonk*

    --
    Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
     
    Randy Howard, Oct 3, 2005
    #19
  20. newby2c

    Mabden Guest

    Re: KeithT is Trolling me.

    "Randy Howard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mabden wrote
    > (in article <Vu70f.169$>):
    >
    > > Here's a chart to spell it out:

    >
    > That's enough whining and cursing.


    I agree. Sorry. I just get annoyed when I can't say anything without a
    KT comment afterwards...

    --
    Mabden
     
    Mabden, Oct 3, 2005
    #20
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