layers and tables

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Tom, Jan 3, 2005.

  1. Tom

    Tom Guest

    Can someone help?

    I have an html page with a large image sliced up into tables. If I add text
    to the page using layers. where in the page do i put the code for the layer.
    Or to put this another way can it be put anywhere. I am using dreamweaver
    and can't find anything in their help menu.

    Also should i set the sliceed images to "img src" or "background" - which
    is the best for compatibility

    thanks in advance
     
    Tom, Jan 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:08:56 -0000, Tom <> wrote:

    > I have an html page with a large image sliced up into tables. If I add text
    > to the page using layers. where in the page do i put the code for the layer.
    > Or to put this another way can it be put anywhere. I am using dreamweaver
    > and can't find anything in their help menu.


    Ah, I see. Well, had you been using html, I might have been able to help out.
    Since you're using dreamweaver, news:alt.macromedia.dreamweaver is probably the
    better place to be.



    --
    ,-- --<--@ ---- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: -----------.
    | weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html> |
    | webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html> |
    | zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html> |
    `----------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Jan 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. Tom wrote:
    > Can someone help?


    Depends what your definition of "help" is.

    > I have an html page with a large image sliced up into tables.


    Ok, you probably want to stop doing that. There is little advantage to
    slicing and putting into tables. A quick google of slice and tables
    will reveal both sides of that argument.

    >I am using dreamweaver
    > and can't find anything in their help menu.


    There is the first issue, you are relying on Dreamweaver to know the
    answers. It doesn't. It is only an editor slightly more complex than
    notepad. Hit up some tutorials and learn HTML and CSS. That is your
    best answer.


    > Also should i set the sliceed images to "img src" or "background" - which
    > is the best for compatibility


    Depending on the design, a single background image usually works best.
    But learn HTML, CSS and how to design without tables. In the long run
    that will be your best answer.

    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 3, 2005
    #3
  4. Tom

    Tom Guest

    Hi there

    I use dreamweaver, as do many others, come on this is a code question i'm
    looking for an answer to, if it helps, I can't find any help in my HTML
    reference book either.

    "Barbara de Zoete" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:psj1mlvepx5vgts@zoete_b...
    > On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:08:56 -0000, Tom <> wrote:
    >
    >> I have an html page with a large image sliced up into tables. If I add
    >> text
    >> to the page using layers. where in the page do i put the code for the
    >> layer.
    >> Or to put this another way can it be put anywhere. I am using
    >> dreamweaver
    >> and can't find anything in their help menu.

    >
    > Ah, I see. Well, had you been using html, I might have been able to help
    > out. Since you're using dreamweaver, news:alt.macromedia.dreamweaver is
    > probably the better place to be.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > ,-- --<--@ ---- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele
    > interesses: -----------.
    > | weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
    > |
    > | webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    > |
    > | zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
    > |
    > `----------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
     
    Tom, Jan 3, 2005
    #4
  5. Tom wrote:
    > I use dreamweaver, as do many others, come on this is a code question i'm
    > looking for an answer to, if it helps, I can't find any help in my HTML
    > reference book either.


    The short answer is background. The long answer is lose the tables and
    spliced images.


    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 3, 2005
    #5
  6. Tom

    Jeff Thies Guest

    Tom wrote:
    > Hi there
    >
    > I use dreamweaver, as do many others,



    That's not an asset!

    come on this is a code question i'm
    > looking for an answer to, if it helps, I can't find any help in my HTML
    > reference book either.


    No, it's a dreamweaver question there hasn't been anything called a
    layer since Netscape 4.

    You need ask someone who uses dreamweaver what you mean.

    If you were using absolutely positioned divs, you would put them
    anywhere you wanted, as long as the zIndex is higher than your image.
    But that wouldn't be proper html either.

    You're going to have trouble on usenet until you learn proper posting
    style. Start by not top posting, trimming extraneous content and posting
    to the most appropriate group.

    Jeff
    >
    >
     
    Jeff Thies, Jan 3, 2005
    #6
  7. On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:19:36 -0000, Tom <> wrote:

    > Hi there
    >


    Please don't top-quote. Quote the parts of the text you reply to and reply
    beneith it.

    [rest of the top-quote fixed]

    > "Barbara de Zoete" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek:psj1mlvepx5vgts@zoete_b...
    >> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:08:56 -0000, Tom <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have an html page with a large image sliced up into tables. If I add
    >>> text
    >>> to the page using layers. where in the page do i put the code for the
    >>> layer.
    >>> Or to put this another way can it be put anywhere. I am using
    >>> dreamweaver
    >>> and can't find anything in their help menu.

    >>
    >> Ah, I see. Well, had you been using html, I might have been able to help
    >> out. Since you're using dreamweaver, news:alt.macromedia.dreamweaver is
    >> probably the better place to be.
    >>


    > I use dreamweaver, as do many others, come on this is a code question i'm
    > looking for an answer to, if it helps, I can't find any help in my HTML
    > reference book either.
    >


    Well, first of all, this is not really a help desk, neither for Dreamweaver, nor
    for html. But, since you seem to insist:

    - First of all, stop slicing your images:
    <http://www.google.com/search?q=slice+image+table> will tell you why (and a bit
    of why you should also).
    - Second, stop using tables for lay-out:
    <http://www.google.com/search?q=%22tableless+design%22> explaines that bit.
    - Third, start learning proper html for your pages and some css for the general
    design of the elements and lay-out of the pages:
    o html starters:
    <http://www.w3schools.org/>,
    <http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Guide/>,
    <http://www.htmlhelp.org/faq/html/all.html>
    o css starters:
    <http://www.w3schools.org/>,
    <http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Guide/Style.html>

    Do yourself a favour and quit using Dreamweaver until you understand what you do
    and it does.

    >> --
    >> ,-- --<--@ ---- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele


    Please delete any sig's that your crappy newsclient leaves in the reply. Or get
    yourself a less crappy newsclient.


    --
    ,-- --<--@ ---- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: -----------.
    | weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html> |
    | webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html> |
    | zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html> |
    `----------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Jan 3, 2005
    #7
  8. Tom

    Tom Guest

    thanks for the reply

    can you send a url of a page showing a good example of layout without
    tables. I'm assuming I should use CSS and layers?


    "Travis Newbury" <> wrote in message
    news:V6iCd.36397$...
    > Tom wrote:
    >> I use dreamweaver, as do many others, come on this is a code question
    >> i'm looking for an answer to, if it helps, I can't find any help in my
    >> HTML reference book either.

    >
    > The short answer is background. The long answer is lose the tables and
    > spliced images.
    >
    >
    > --
    > -=tn=-
     
    Tom, Jan 3, 2005
    #8
  9. Tom

    Tom Guest

    Thanks for all the positive comments! Please post urls of your expert work,
    so i may learn.
     
    Tom, Jan 3, 2005
    #9
  10. On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:40:02 -0000, Tom <> wrote:

    > Thanks for all the positive comments! Please post urls of your expert work,
    > so i may learn.
    >


    Forgive my impatience with idiots: *ploink*


    --
    ,-- --<--@ ---- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: -----------.
    | weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html> |
    | webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html> |
    | zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html> |
    `----------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Jan 3, 2005
    #10
  11. Tom

    Neal Guest

    Tom <> wrote:

    > Can someone help?
    >
    > I have an html page with a large image sliced up into tables.


    Did you know that it'll take significantly longer to d/l the pieces
    than one large whole? Doing that is indicative of a flawed design
    technique.

    > If I add text
    > to the page using layers. where in the page do i put the code for
    > the layer.


    What kind of layer are we talking about? Try to avoid that word, it
    refers to too many things in web design.

    > Or to put this another way can it be put anywhere. I am using
    > dreamweaver


    Ah, that layer. I don't use DW so I won't be able to offer concrete
    help on that, sorry.

    > and can't find anything in their help menu.
    >
    > Also should i set the sliceed images to "img src" or "background" -
    > which
    > is the best for compatibility


    Images which are content should be <img>. Images which are decorative
    should be backgrounds. I've overgeneralized here, but that's
    essentially my line of thinking.
     
    Neal, Jan 3, 2005
    #11
  12. Tom

    Tom Guest


    >> Thanks for all the positive comments! Please post urls of your expert
    >> work,
    >> so i may learn.
    >>

    >
    > Forgive my impatience with idiots: *ploink*
    >
    >
    > --
    > ,-- --<--@ ---- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele
    > interesses: -----------.
    > | weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
    > |
    > | webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    > |
    > | zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
    > |
    > `----------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'


    Are you serious? Please Barbara post a link, and not the joke wanadoo ones.
    I am looking for some serious help.
     
    Tom, Jan 3, 2005
    #12
  13. Tom

    Neal Guest

    Tom <> wrote:
    > thanks for the reply
    > can you send a url of a page showing a good example of layout without
    > tables. I'm assuming I should use CSS and layers?
    > "Travis Newbury" <> wrote
    >> Tom wrote:
    >>> I use dreamweaver, as do many others, come on this is a code
    >>> question
    >>> i'm looking for an answer to, if it helps, I can't find any help
    >>> in my
    >>> HTML reference book either.

    >> The short answer is background. The long answer is lose the tables
    >> and
    >> spliced images.


    Can you please not post out of order? It's helpful to follow the
    conventions of a newsgroup. Here we put our words after the words
    we're replying to. And normally we trim unessential quoted material (I
    think it was Jukka who said "a lack of comprehensive snipping is
    indicative of a lack of comprehensive reading") but in this case I
    left things (almost) as is to illustrate the problem in reading.

    Forget "layer" - it's a meaningless word. With CSS you can position an
    element however you like (just about). Sadly, I know of no excellent
    tutorials on it. I'd start with the CSS tutorial at
    <http://www.w3schools.com> and learn as much as you can there, then
    begin experimenting.

    But be advised - having a fancy table saw does not make you a
    carpenter, having a set of law books does not qualify you to be a
    lawyer, and owning a fancy-dancy HTML editor does not mean you can
    make a decent page. In each case, the tools I mention are only useful
    when the person knows the subject thoroughly enough that they could
    get by without the tool.

    My advice - learn HTML and CSS the hard way. Use DW in text editing
    mode only, type it all in. DOn't use the WYSIWYG "feature" - in fact
    it should rightly be called WYSINWYG. Use a few browsers to check your
    rendering - I generally use Firefox, Opera and IE6. And read up on CSS
    elsewhere, like comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets, to learn
    even more. (But please don't post there until you cure your
    top-posting habit, thank you!)
     
    Neal, Jan 3, 2005
    #13
  14. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "Neal" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > Tom <> wrote:
    >
    >> Can someone help?
    >>
    >> I have an html page with a large image sliced up into tables.

    >
    > Did you know that it'll take significantly longer to d/l the pieces than
    > one large whole? Doing that is indicative of a flawed design technique.
    >



    Thanks for the reply Neal.

    I am curious as to why then so many graphics packages, photoshop, fireworks
    etc,. have tutorials etc,. on this as a means to generate images into html.

    Should I layout the image as a large background and position the text using
    css - is this the way forward (and please other readers/posters be positive)
     
    Tom, Jan 3, 2005
    #14
  15. Tom

    Neal Guest

    Tom <> wrote:

    > I am curious as to why then so many graphics packages, photoshop,
    > fireworks
    > etc,. have tutorials etc,. on this as a means to generate images
    > into html.


    Outdated materials, developers who may not have actually made a site
    in 5 years, I can't say. Perhaps even a marketing strategy - if they
    make it seem so easy to make a site, and that the product will do all
    the thinking and work for you, sales are better.

    > Should I layout the image as a large background and position the
    > text using
    > css - is this the way forward (and please other readers/posters be
    > positive)


    Perhaps. It's really hard to say without seeing it. One issue you'll
    face with that is it can lock you into a fixed-width design when fluid
    might be better. There are ways around that, most notably "repeat-x"
    CSS rules, but depending on the design you're implementing that may or
    may not be practical.

    And thank you for your better reply mode.
     
    Neal, Jan 3, 2005
    #15
  16. Barbara de Zoete wrote:
    > Do yourself a favour and quit using Dreamweaver until you understand
    > what you do and it does.


    I have to disagree, Dreamweaver can be an awesome tool to assist in
    learning HTML and CSS.

    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 3, 2005
    #16
  17. On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:26:33 -0500, Travis Newbury <> wrote:

    > Barbara de Zoete wrote:
    >> Do yourself a favour and quit using Dreamweaver until you understand what you
    >> do and it does.

    >
    > I have to disagree, Dreamweaver can be an awesome tool to assist in learning
    > HTML and CSS.
    >


    Maybe I wasn't clear enough with the 'and it does' bit?

    --
    ,-- --<--@ ---- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: -----------.
    | weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html> |
    | webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html> |
    | zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html> |
    `----------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Jan 3, 2005
    #17
  18. Tom wrote:

    > I am curious as to why then so many graphics packages, photoshop, fireworks
    > etc,. have tutorials etc,. on this as a means to generate images into html.


    Because that _use_ to be the accepted method
    ..
    >
    > Should I layout the image as a large background and position the text using
    > css - is this the way forward (and please other readers/posters be positive)


    Background. (again)

    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 3, 2005
    #18
  19. Tom

    Duende Guest

    While sitting in a puddle Tom scribbled in the mud:

    > can you send a url of a page showing a good example of layout without
    > tables. I'm assuming I should use CSS and layers?


    http://wipkip.biz ;)

    --
    D?
    If it ain't broken fix it anyway.
     
    Duende, Jan 3, 2005
    #19
  20. Barbara de Zoete wrote:
    >>> Do yourself a favour and quit using Dreamweaver until you understand
    >>> what you do and it does.

    >> I have to disagree, Dreamweaver can be an awesome tool to assist in
    >> learning HTML and CSS.

    > Maybe I wasn't clear enough with the 'and it does' bit?


    Nope you weren't. The wording of your post implied the oposite.


    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 3, 2005
    #20
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