layers

Discussion in 'HTML' started by frank, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. frank

    frank Guest

    s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    example of layers in use. any suggestions?
    frank, Feb 17, 2008
    #1
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  2. frank wrote:

    > s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    > example of layers in use. any suggestions?


    "Layers" is an antiquated term used first, I believe, by ancient
    versions of Netscape. Somewhere way back in the Dark Ages. If your
    instructor is using that term, please advise hir to kindly move forward.
    Or get a refund from the course.

    You probably want to learn about "<div>".

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Vista
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Feb 17, 2008
    #2
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  3. Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > frank wrote:
    >
    >> s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    >> example of layers in use. any suggestions?

    >
    > "Layers" is an antiquated term used first, I believe, by ancient
    > versions of Netscape. Somewhere way back in the Dark Ages. If your
    > instructor is using that term, please advise hir to kindly move forward.
    > Or get a refund from the course.
    >
    > You probably want to learn about "<div>".


    And CSS positioning.
    Harlan Messinger, Feb 17, 2008
    #3
  4. frank

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    On Feb 17, 12:22 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:
    > frank wrote:
    > > s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    > > example of layers in use. any suggestions?

    >
    > "Layers" is an antiquated term used first, I believe, by ancient
    > versions of Netscape. Somewhere way back in the Dark Ages. If your
    > instructor is using that term, please advise hir to kindly move forward.
    > Or get a refund from the course.
    >
    > You probably want to learn about "<div>".



    It is very difficult to find "layers" code anymore. You can still find
    it on some of the dhtml sites with code that has not been updated in a
    very long time. So far as I know, Netscape, which developed layers
    code, quit supporting it after 4 versions of their browser, and so far
    as I know, no recent browser supports layers. Back in the days of
    Netscape 4 and IE 4, much dhtml code used browser detection and took a
    layers path if Netscape was detected and a document.all path if IE was
    detected. Of course browser detection no longer is reliable for modern
    browsers. Shortly after Netscape came out with their 6 version
    browser, much dhtml code had 3 paths, the 2 mentioned before and the
    modern w3c. document.getElementByID path that soon started to be used.
    Netscape used only this path from their version 6 on browsers. Soon IE
    also supported it, and I believe still support, their old unofficial
    document.all.
    See http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex3/light.htm for an
    example of dhtml code that still has layers in it, although it is not
    mentioned that it still supports Netscape 4 in the description. This
    code has been updated to support newer browsers over the years. This
    type of dhtml effect is not very popular anymore, and seeing it on a
    commercial web page is likely to make many here turn red in the face,
    have an increase in blood pressure, and reply in language not suited
    for children :) .
    cwdjrxyz, Feb 17, 2008
    #4
  5. frank wrote:
    > s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    > example of layers in use. any suggestions?


    Reserved for cakes not web pages.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 17, 2008
    #5
  6. On Feb 17, 1:22 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:
    > frank wrote:
    > > s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    > > example of layers in use. any suggestions?

    >
    > "Layers" is an antiquated term used first, I believe, by ancient
    > versions of Netscape. Somewhere way back in the Dark Ages. If your
    > instructor is using that term, please advise hir to kindly move forward.
    > Or get a refund from the course.
    >
    > You probably want to learn about "<div>".
    >
    > --
    > -bts
    > -Friends don't let friends drive Vista


    bts? bind/torture/strangle?
    Travis Newbury, Feb 17, 2008
    #6
  7. frank

    Neredbojias Guest

    Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:05:23 GMT
    frank scribed:

    > s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    > example of layers in use. any suggestions?


    http://www.thefarm.org/charities/i4at/lib2/chickens.htm

    --
    Neredbojias
    Riches are their own reward.
    Neredbojias, Feb 17, 2008
    #7
  8. frank

    Bergamot Guest

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > frank wrote:
    >
    >> s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    >> example of layers in use. any suggestions?

    >
    > "Layers" is an antiquated term


    but perpetuated by Dreamweaver.

    I believe it uses that term for any absolutely positioned div. Evil
    things they are, too, at least in the wrong hands.

    --
    Berg
    Bergamot, Feb 18, 2008
    #8
  9. frank

    Jeff Guest

    Bergamot wrote:
    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> frank wrote:
    >>
    >>> s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    >>> example of layers in use. any suggestions?

    >> "Layers" is an antiquated term

    >
    > but perpetuated by Dreamweaver.
    >
    > I believe it uses that term for any absolutely positioned div. Evil
    > things they are, too, at least in the wrong hands.


    Which brings up that there must be some good uses also. The most
    common I can think of would be for javascript "flyout" navigation which
    is fairly ubiquitous (and not bad if there is a non js alternative). But
    I think the OPs teacher means "layering" everything. Pretty much once
    you start, you can't stop. I can't think of a mainstream site that does
    that, after all, if you want such "control" you would use Flash.

    Jeff


    >
    Jeff, Feb 18, 2008
    #9
  10. frank

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 18 Feb, 05:38, Bergamot <> wrote:

    > but perpetuated by Dreamweaver.
    >
    > I believe it uses that term for any absolutely positioned div. Evil
    > things they are, too, at least in the wrong hands.


    So would you go so far as to say not only that "Layers is an obsolete
    term", but even that "a good
    example of layers in use" is an a priori impossibility? (Asssuming
    that we regard any and all teaching of absolute positioning in initial
    web design classes to be a bad thing).
    Andy Dingley, Feb 18, 2008
    #10
  11. frank

    Jeff Guest

    Andy Dingley wrote:
    > On 18 Feb, 05:38, Bergamot <> wrote:
    >
    >> but perpetuated by Dreamweaver.
    >>
    >> I believe it uses that term for any absolutely positioned div. Evil
    >> things they are, too, at least in the wrong hands.

    >
    > So would you go so far as to say not only that "Layers is an obsolete
    > term", but even that "a good
    > example of layers in use" is an a priori impossibility? (Asssuming
    > that we regard any and all teaching of absolute positioning in initial
    > web design classes to be a bad thing).


    I think we've all seen newbie web designs that are all absolutely
    positioned. The newb is typically delighted with them and it is a hard
    habit to break once instilled.

    Now, I think some of the three equal height column layouts use an
    absolute positioned "cludge" but that is hardly for a newbie.

    All this speaks volumes about the teacher.

    Jeff
    Jeff, Feb 18, 2008
    #11
  12. Bergamot wrote:

    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> frank wrote:
    >>> s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a
    >>> good example of layers in use. any suggestions?

    >>
    >> "Layers" is an antiquated term

    >
    > but perpetuated by Dreamweaver.


    Yet another reason to use a tool less costly, eh?

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Vista
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Feb 18, 2008
    #12
  13. frank

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 18 Feb, 10:47, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:

    > > I believe it uses that term for any absolutely positioned div. Evil
    > > things they are, too, at least in the wrong hands.

    >
    > Which brings up that there must be some good uses also. The most
    > common I can think of would be for javascript "flyout" navigation


    Although this is a "layer" in that it's a conceptual layer at a
    distinct Z-index, it doesn't mean that you have to (or should) switch
    to absolute positioning.

    AIUI, When DW starts designing "layers" it also strongly implies the
    use of absolute positioning with pixel units, both of which are bad
    and unnecessary.
    Andy Dingley, Feb 18, 2008
    #13
  14. frank

    Bergamot Guest

    Jeff wrote:
    > Andy Dingley wrote:
    >>
    >> So would you go so far as to say not only that "Layers is an obsolete
    >> term", but even that "a good
    >> example of layers in use" is an a priori impossibility?

    >
    > I think we've all seen newbie web designs that are all absolutely
    > positioned.


    Not just newbies, but that is a problem. DW makes it so easy, too,
    though it is not the only authoring tool that does. Absolutely
    positioning every element is a feature of many so-called WSIWYG editors
    these days.

    A pox on all their houses :(

    --
    Berg
    Bergamot, Feb 19, 2008
    #14
  15. frank

    Guest

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > frank wrote:
    >
    >> s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    >> example of layers in use. any suggestions?

    >
    > "Layers" is an antiquated term used first, I believe, by ancient
    > versions of Netscape. Somewhere way back in the Dark Ages. If your
    > instructor is using that term, please advise hir to kindly move forward.
    > Or get a refund from the course.
    >
    > You probably want to learn about "<div>".
    >



    Oh dear! I haven't been to this newsgroup (nor any other newsgroup) in
    at least 5-6 years. The same people are here...and being just as rude as
    I remember them:) Don't answer the guy...just make fun of his teacher=/

    Jeez.

    Ummm...was it Reply? Or Reply All?

    Carla
    , Feb 25, 2008
    #15
  16. frank

    Carla Guest

    Beauregard,

    If you promise to go easy on me, I have a question about layers, too. I
    don't even know what a layer is, but I want you to look at a website
    (maybe two) and just give me the correct terminology for what they are
    doing. Is posting of links to sites allowed?

    I believe it's done in FLASH, so maybe you can suggest a different
    newsgroup instead.

    And, can someone please remove my email addy?

    Thank you so much. I'll send the links after I get the ok from you.

    Carla
    Carla, Feb 25, 2008
    #16
  17. frank

    John Hosking Guest

    cthornquist [etc.] wrote:
    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> frank wrote:
    >>
    >>> s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    >>> example of layers in use. any suggestions?

    >>
    >> "Layers" is an antiquated term used first, I believe, by ancient
    >> versions of Netscape. Somewhere way back in the Dark Ages. If your
    >> instructor is using that term, please advise hir to kindly move forward.
    >> Or get a refund from the course.
    >>

    >
    > Oh dear! I haven't been to this newsgroup (nor any other newsgroup) in
    > at least 5-6 years. The same people are here...and being just as rude as
    > I remember them:) Don't answer the guy...just make fun of his teacher=/


    That wasn't rude. Or did you mean "just as rude" in the same sense as
    "just as friendly" or "just as helpful"?

    Beauregard (and the others) did answer the OP, and part of the answer
    was pointing out the apparent/possible deficiencies of the instructor.

    >
    > Ummm...was it Reply? Or Reply All?


    Delete? What's the question?


    --
    John
    It's not like Thunderbird is actually complicated or anything.
    John Hosking, Feb 25, 2008
    #17
  18. frank

    John Hosking Guest

    Carla wrote:
    > Beauregard,
    >
    > If you promise to go easy on me, I have a question about layers, too. I
    > don't even know what a layer is, but I want you to look at a website
    > (maybe two) and just give me the correct terminology for what they are
    > doing. Is posting of links to sites allowed?


    Did you know that you are allowed to read other posts and old threads,
    and even lurk for a while to see how a NG works? Posting a URL is
    standard practice here (more than lurking, I fear) but posting a URL in
    order to promote traffic to a site is considered spamming by many and
    will provoke flaming and rending of garments.

    >
    > I believe it's done in FLASH, so maybe you can suggest a different
    > newsgroup instead.


    I don't believe there's much connection between the kind of layers the
    OP was asking about and Flash (although Flash has layers of its own).

    I don't do Flash so I don't frequent such groups or know which are good
    ones, but if you right-click your news account in TB and choose
    "Subscribe...", then type "flash" in the "Show items that contain"
    field, you will get some NGs carried by your provider. Subscribe to one
    or more and lurk there.

    alt.macromedia.flash, macromedia.flash, uk.comp.graphics.flash are three
    that I see as likely groups.

    >
    > And, can someone please remove my email addy?


    Only you can remove or change your address, and you can do it only for
    posts in the future; what you've already posted is preserved for the ages.

    >
    > Thank you so much. I'll send the links after I get the ok from you.


    If you were talking about e-mailing directly to Beauregard, then my
    earlier advice is moot. If that's not what you mean, then the verb you
    want to use is "post," not "send."

    Nothing against Beauregard, but why does *he* get to decide eveything
    all of a sudden?


    --
    John
    If there was a coronation, I missed it. ;-)
    John Hosking, Feb 25, 2008
    #18
  19. frank

    Carla Guest

    John Hosking wrote:
    > cthornquist [etc.] wrote:
    >> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >>> frank wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> s a class assignment am looking for a site that would serve as a good
    >>>> example of layers in use. any suggestions?
    >>>

    <snip>

    > Delete? What's the question?
    >
    >


    I just haven't used an email client in a very long time. I needed to
    access newsgroups again, so I tried Thunderbird. It was difficult to
    make it work. I should have tried Mozilla's online newsgroup first, but
    instead talked to support at ATT Yahoo for a couple hours. Finally they
    said they don't support Thunderbird.

    It was just fun seeing the same names here. And ironic, since the only
    term I could think of to describe what I found (and need help with) on a
    couple websites is "layer". Then the first post I saw here was about a
    "layer." Struck me as funny. Especially the comment about a cake.

    I don't know what it's called. Here's the site: http://www.gensler.com.
    They just launched their new site & I'm curious how they made the
    semi-transparent blocks that link. They appear to float atop the page.
    Found something similar here: http://www.cannondesign.com I think it's a
    combination of FLASH and javascript. Anyone know, not how to do it, but
    what it's called?

    Thanks,

    Carla
    Carla, Feb 25, 2008
    #19
  20. frank

    Carla Guest

    John Hosking wrote:
    > Carla wrote:
    >> Beauregard,
    >>
    >> If you promise to go easy on me, I have a question about layers, too.
    >> I don't even know what a layer is, but I want you to look at a website
    >> (maybe two) and just give me the correct terminology for what they are
    >> doing. Is posting of links to sites allowed?


    <snip>

    > If you were talking about e-mailing directly to Beauregard, then my
    > earlier advice is moot. If that's not what you mean, then the verb you
    > want to use is "post," not "send."
    >
    > Nothing against Beauregard, but why does *he* get to decide eveything
    > all of a sudden?
    >
    >


    I remember it being a tight knit group here, so I thought I better suck
    up to the head honcho first=)) Did I get the wrong person?

    I know I can lurk & learn, but I'm kinda in a bind and need info fast.

    Thank you, Mr. Hosking
    Carla, Feb 25, 2008
    #20
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