Layout and images at IE and Firefox

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. I have noticed that both the quality of the images on my website and the
    layout of the menu on the left looks much better if I browse my website at
    IE than at Firefox.
    What does it depend on?
    Does IE improve the layout automatically or does Firefox make it look worse?
    Which one renders better the requirements from W3 and why?



    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/italien/italien-ligurien/la-spezia/riomaggiore/
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 5, 2006
    #1
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  2. Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:

    > I have noticed that both the quality of the images on my website and
    > the layout of the menu on the left looks much better if I browse my
    > website at IE than at Firefox.


    Then you have mistakes. Images will look distorted when you put height
    and width in the HTML that is not equal to the exact size of the image.

    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/bilder/oen-elba.jpg
    Width: 230px, Height: 230px
    Physical Width: 200px, Physical Height: 200px

    You also have errors in your CSS file.
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/default.css

    Go here http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/csscheck/
    and paste in your css. Browsers are free to ignore your CSS when they
    encounter an error.

    > What does it depend on?


    It depends on how well you construct the pages.

    > Does IE improve the layout automatically or does Firefox make it look worse?


    Luigi, if you read threads other than your own, you would know that IE
    is very broken. You would also know that Firefox is a
    standards-conforming browser, rather than a browser that attempts to
    guess what you want, as IE does.

    > Which one renders better the requirements from W3 and why?


    Firefox, of course. Why? Ask Microsoft why they chose not to abide by
    the standards.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 5, 2006
    #2
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  3. "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:mryis7pxkmu5.xymtgfji28x0$...
    > Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:
    >
    > > I have noticed that both the quality of the images on my website and
    > > the layout of the menu on the left looks much better if I browse my
    > > website at IE than at Firefox.

    >
    > Then you have mistakes. Images will look distorted when you put height
    > and width in the HTML that is not equal to the exact size of the image.



    I know that.
    I am going to check up later or more probably some other day.

    > https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/bilder/oen-elba.jpg
    > Width: 230px, Height: 230px
    > Physical Width: 200px, Physical Height: 200px
    >
    > You also have errors in your CSS file.
    > https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/default.css



    > Go here http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/csscheck/
    > and paste in your css. Browsers are free to ignore your CSS when they
    > encounter an error.


    Ok
    > > What does it depend on?

    >
    > It depends on how well you construct the pages.
    >
    > > Does IE improve the layout automatically or does Firefox make it look

    worse?
    >
    > Luigi, if you read threads other than your own, you would know that IE
    > is very broken.

    Sometimes I read them ( in most cases I have not had the time because I
    already get many answers in so many different Ngs and different languages
    and I do not like sitting and writing in the NG the whole time either) and
    yes, I had probably read something like that. However, I am confident that
    you understand that people can also be interested to support the idea of a
    browser being better than an other...(as in politics there are different
    opinions as well)
    and many of those who write in the
    NGs do not even write their real name, so ..
    Both Firefox and IE have had problems, the only real difference which I can
    see is that IE at the moment has some problem which Microsoft has not
    solved yet.

    You would also know that Firefox is a
    > standards-conforming browser, rather than a browser that attempts to
    > guess what you want, as IE does.

    Again, I think that I have read or heard that but that does not mean that
    everyone thinks the same way.

    > > Which one renders better the requirements from W3 and why?

    >
    > Firefox, of course. Why? Ask Microsoft why they chose not to abide by
    > the standards.


    If that is really the case, perhaps it depends on that Microsoft prefers
    browser which correct design mistakes.

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/italien/italien-ligurien/la-spezia/riomaggiore/
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2006
    #3
  4. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    <> spouted in alt.html:

    > Again, I think that I have read or heard that but that does not mean that
    > everyone thinks the same way.


    Which browser is better is a matter of opinion. Which browser is more
    standards-compliant is a simple fact.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    =====================================================
    Att. Google Groups users - this is your last warning:
    http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
     
    Mark Parnell, Jan 6, 2006
    #4
  5. "Mark Parnell" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:43bdc677$0$15802$...
    > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    > <> spouted in alt.html:
    >
    > > Again, I think that I have read or heard that but that does not mean

    that
    > > everyone thinks the same way.

    >
    > Which browser is better is a matter of opinion. Which browser is more
    > standards-compliant is a simple fact.



    CSS1 or CSS2?
    See
    http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html
    Which standards are we talking about?

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/italien/italien-ligurien/la-spezia/riomaggiore/
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2006
    #5
  6. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    <> spouted in alt.html:

    > Which standards are we talking about?


    CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
    about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
    non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
    e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html

    --
    Mark Parnell
    =====================================================
    Att. Google Groups users - this is your last warning:
    http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
     
    Mark Parnell, Jan 6, 2006
    #6
  7. In article
    <43bdcc5f$0$15789$>,
    Mark Parnell <> wrote:

    > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    > <> spouted in alt.html:
    >
    > > Which standards are we talking about?

    >
    > CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
    > about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
    > non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
    > e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html


    Move iCab very significantly into the green zone with iCab 3+. It's too
    bad that there isn't a six-monthly revision of lists like this to state
    the obvious. IE needs major revision to conform to any standards but its
    own.

    leo

    --
    <http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
     
    Leonard Blaisdell, Jan 6, 2006
    #7
  8. Mark Parnell wrote:
    > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    > <> spouted in alt.html:
    >
    >
    >>Which standards are we talking about?

    >
    >
    > CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
    > about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
    > non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
    > e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html
    >


    I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jan 6, 2006
    #8
  9. "Jonathan N. Little" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:43bddefd$0$6439$...
    > Mark Parnell wrote:
    > > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    > > <> spouted in alt.html:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Which standards are we talking about?

    > >
    > >
    > > CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
    > > about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
    > > non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
    > > e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html
    > >

    >
    > I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)


    To some extent...
    IE depends on Windows, doesn´t it?

    Back to Beauregard T. Shagnasty´s suggestions,
    the validator has a note:
    Note: CSSCheck is primarily a CSS1 checker. Many CSS2 properties are
    supported, but new CSS2 selectors will generate errors.
    http://www.htmlhelp.com/cgi-bin/csscheck.cgi
    Anyway I get several warnings for

    http://www.htmlhelp.com/cgi-bin/csscheck.cgi
    and some errors.
    "Error: Classes may contain only the characters A-Z, a-z, 0-9, Unicode
    161-255, hyphens, or escaped Unicode characters as numeric codes."

    But
    no error
    with CSS validator from W3
    by direct input

    Why?

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/italien/italien-ligurien/la-spezia/riomaggiore/
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2006
    #9
  10. "Mark Parnell" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:43bdcc5f$0$15789$...
    > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    > <> spouted in alt.html:
    >
    > > Which standards are we talking about?

    >
    > CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
    > about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
    > non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
    > e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html
    >
    > --
    > Mark Parnell


    Interesting table.
    Is it updated?


    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/italien/italien-ligurien/la-spezia/riomaggiore/
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2006
    #10
  11. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    <> spouted in alt.html:

    > Is it updated?


    The table? Looks a little out of date - only Opera 7 there (current is
    8.5). But since IE hasn't been updated since 2001 (IIRC), updating it
    would just mean more of a difference between IE and the other browsers
    listed.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    =====================================================
    Att. Google Groups users - this is your last warning:
    http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
     
    Mark Parnell, Jan 6, 2006
    #11
  12. "Mark Parnell" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:43bdf1ab$0$15801$...
    > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    > <> spouted in alt.html:
    >
    > > Is it updated?

    >
    > The table? Looks a little out of date - only Opera 7 there (current is
    > 8.5). But since IE hasn't been updated since 2001 (IIRC), updating it
    > would just mean more of a difference between IE and the other browsers
    > listed.


    It would be nice to have an updated table.

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/italien/italien-ligurien/la-spezia/riomaggiore/
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2006
    #12
  13. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Nije Nego Guest

    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    news:43bddefd$0$6439$...
    : Mark Parnell wrote:
    : > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    : > <> spouted in alt.html:
    : >
    : >
    : >>Which standards are we talking about?
    : >
    : >
    : > CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
    : > about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
    : > non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
    : > e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html
    : >
    :
    : I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)
    :

    Creating sites just for IE, and writting poems about it is just a poor
    excuse for lack of knowledge, or care.
     
    Nije Nego, Jan 6, 2006
    #13
  14. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Nije Nego Guest

    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message
    news:9Pyvf.153537$...
    :
    : "Mark Parnell" <> skrev i meddelandet
    : news:43bdf1ab$0$15801$...
    : > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
    : > <> spouted in alt.html:
    : >
    : > > Is it updated?
    : >
    : > The table? Looks a little out of date - only Opera 7 there (current is
    : > 8.5). But since IE hasn't been updated since 2001 (IIRC), updating it
    : > would just mean more of a difference between IE and the other browsers
    : > listed.
    :
    : It would be nice to have an updated table.
    :
    : --

    It would also be nice to have an updated browser.
     
    Nije Nego, Jan 6, 2006
    #14
  15. Nije Nego wrote:

    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    > : I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)
    > :
    >
    > Creating sites just for IE, and writting poems about it is just a poor
    > excuse for lack of knowledge, or care.
    >


    Actually this was part of a running joke for a few of us tangled in
    Luigi's web, I was in no way endorsing IE!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jan 6, 2006
    #15
  16. Nije Nego wrote:

    > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message
    > : It would be nice to have an updated table.
    > :
    > : --
    >
    > It would also be nice to have an updated browser.
    >


    Touché! Just consider that only after the first 3 columns is the table
    obsolete :)

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jan 6, 2006
    #16
  17. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Nije Nego Guest

    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    news:43bef017$0$10744$...
    : Nije Nego wrote:
    :
    : > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    : > : I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)
    : > :
    : >
    : > Creating sites just for IE, and writting poems about it is just a poor
    : > excuse for lack of knowledge, or care.
    : >
    :
    : Actually this was part of a running joke for a few of us tangled in
    : Luigi's web, I was in no way endorsing IE!
    :

    No problem, I replied to you, but I wrote it to the world.
     
    Nije Nego, Jan 6, 2006
    #17
  18. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Patient Guy Guest

    Mark Parnell <> wrote in
    news:43bdc677$0$15802$:

    > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello
    > Asero <> spouted in alt.html:
    >
    >> Again, I think that I have read or heard that but that does not mean
    >> that everyone thinks the same way.

    >
    > Which browser is better is a matter of opinion. Which browser is more
    > standards-compliant is a simple fact.


    Of course, when you're Microsoft and you believe you ARE the standard, and
    it's all others who should conform to you, then you have the better,
    standard-setting browser rolled into one.
     
    Patient Guy, Jan 7, 2006
    #18
  19. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Patient Guy Guest

    "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote in
    news:mryis7pxkmu5.xymtgfji28x0$:

    > Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:
    >
    >> I have noticed that both the quality of the images on my website and
    >> the layout of the menu on the left looks much better if I browse my
    >> website at IE than at Firefox.

    >
    > Then you have mistakes. Images will look distorted when you put height
    > and width in the HTML that is not equal to the exact size of the
    > image.
    >
    > https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/bilder/oen-elba.jpg
    > Width: 230px, Height: 230px
    > Physical Width: 200px, Physical Height: 200px
    >
    > You also have errors in your CSS file.
    > https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/default.css
    >
    > Go here http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/csscheck/
    > and paste in your css. Browsers are free to ignore your CSS when they
    > encounter an error.
    >
    >> What does it depend on?

    >
    > It depends on how well you construct the pages.
    >
    >> Does IE improve the layout automatically or does Firefox make it look
    >> worse?

    >
    > Luigi, if you read threads other than your own, you would know that IE
    > is very broken. You would also know that Firefox is a
    > standards-conforming browser, rather than a browser that attempts to
    > guess what you want, as IE does.
    >
    >> Which one renders better the requirements from W3 and why?

    >
    > Firefox, of course. Why? Ask Microsoft why they chose not to abide by
    > the standards.


    There actually IS one standard that I wish Firefox WOULD adhere to that IE
    actually does adhere to.

    For a while now, I have been complaining that FF's table caption styling
    is broken and is improperly separated from the edge of the first row of
    table cells. This occurs when the table top margin is set. The caption
    IS part of the table and so should not be separated from the top
    edge/border of the first row of table cells.

    This annoying behavior is easily seen by setting a dark-colored background
    and light-colored text to the caption, and then putting margin-top in the
    table. Vary the margin-top to see the caption go up and down in FF. IE
    properly renders the table with the caption ALWAYS adjoined to the top
    edge of the first row of table cells.

    I am really surprised that this nonsense has been going on for that long a
    time and no one has seen it or seen fit to say something about it. The
    CSS specification is quite clear on the concept. Given that the use of
    captions in tables is as common as a P element or a character entity
    reference, well....
     
    Patient Guy, Jan 7, 2006
    #19
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