Layout and images at IE and Firefox

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

I have noticed that both the quality of the images on my website and the
layout of the menu on the left looks much better if I browse my website at
IE than at Firefox.
What does it depend on?
Does IE improve the layout automatically or does Firefox make it look worse?
Which one renders better the requirements from W3 and why?

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

I have noticed that both the quality of the images on my website and
the layout of the menu on the left looks much better if I browse my
website at IE than at Firefox.

Then you have mistakes. Images will look distorted when you put height
and width in the HTML that is not equal to the exact size of the image.

https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/bilder/oen-elba.jpg
Width: 230px, Height: 230px
Physical Width: 200px, Physical Height: 200px

You also have errors in your CSS file.
https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/default.css

Go here http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/csscheck/
and paste in your css. Browsers are free to ignore your CSS when they
encounter an error.

What does it depend on?

It depends on how well you construct the pages.

Does IE improve the layout automatically or does Firefox make it look worse?

Luigi, if you read threads other than your own, you would know that IE
is very broken. You would also know that Firefox is a
standards-conforming browser, rather than a browser that attempts to
guess what you want, as IE does.

Which one renders better the requirements from W3 and why?

Firefox, of course. Why? Ask Microsoft why they chose not to abide by
the standards.

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Then you have mistakes. Images will look distorted when you put height
and width in the HTML that is not equal to the exact size of the image.

I know that.
I am going to check up later or more probably some other day.

https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/bilder/oen-elba.jpg
Width: 230px, Height: 230px
Physical Width: 200px, Physical Height: 200px

You also have errors in your CSS file.
https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/default.css

Go here http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/csscheck/
and paste in your css. Browsers are free to ignore your CSS when they
encounter an error.
Ok

It depends on how well you construct the pages.
worse?

Luigi, if you read threads other than your own, you would know that IE
is very broken.

Sometimes I read them ( in most cases I have not had the time because I
already get many answers in so many different Ngs and different languages
and I do not like sitting and writing in the NG the whole time either) and
yes, I had probably read something like that. However, I am confident that
you understand that people can also be interested to support the idea of a
browser being better than an other...(as in politics there are different
opinions as well)
and many of those who write in the
NGs do not even write their real name, so ..
Both Firefox and IE have had problems, the only real difference which I can
see is that IE at the moment has some problem which Microsoft has not
solved yet.

You would also know that Firefox is a

standards-conforming browser, rather than a browser that attempts to
guess what you want, as IE does.

Again, I think that I have read or heard that but that does not mean that
everyone thinks the same way.

Firefox, of course. Why? Ask Microsoft why they chose not to abide by
the standards.

If that is really the case, perhaps it depends on that Microsoft prefers
browser which correct design mistakes.

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero

Again, I think that I have read or heard that but that does not mean that
everyone thinks the same way.

Which browser is better is a matter of opinion. Which browser is more
standards-compliant is a simple fact.

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero


Which browser is better is a matter of opinion. Which browser is more
standards-compliant is a simple fact.

CSS1 or CSS2?
See
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html
Which standards are we talking about?

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero

Which standards are we talking about?

CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html

 

[Leonard Blaisdell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero


CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html

Move iCab very significantly into the green zone with iCab 3+. It's too
bad that there isn't a six-monthly revision of lists like this to state
the obvious. IE needs major revision to conform to any standards but its
own.

leo

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero



CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html

I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)

To some extent...
IE depends on Windows, doesn´t it?

Back to Beauregard T. Shagnasty´s suggestions,
the validator has a note:
Note: CSSCheck is primarily a CSS1 checker. Many CSS2 properties are
supported, but new CSS2 selectors will generate errors.
http://www.htmlhelp.com/cgi-bin/csscheck.cgi
Anyway I get several warnings for

http://www.htmlhelp.com/cgi-bin/csscheck.cgi
and some errors.
"Error: Classes may contain only the characters A-Z, a-z, 0-9, Unicode
161-255, hyphens, or escaped Unicode characters as numeric codes."

But
no error
with CSS validator from W3
by direct input

Why?

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero


CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html

Interesting table.
Is it updated?

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero

Is it updated?

The table? Looks a little out of date - only Opera 7 there (current is
8.5). But since IE hasn't been updated since 2001 (IIRC), updating it
would just mean more of a difference between IE and the other browsers
listed.

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero


The table? Looks a little out of date - only Opera 7 there (current is
8.5). But since IE hasn't been updated since 2001 (IIRC), updating it
would just mean more of a difference between IE and the other browsers
listed.

It would be nice to have an updated table.

 

[Nije Nego]

: Mark Parnell wrote:
: > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
: > <[email protected]> spouted in alt.html:
: >
: >
: >>Which standards are we talking about?
: >
: >
: > CSS1, CSS2, HTML, XHTML, whatever. CSS in particular. IE is behind just
: > about every other relatively modern browser on all counts (except e.g.
: > non-CSS browsers of course). Have a look at any compatibility chart,
: > e.g. http://macedition.com/cb/resources/abridgedcsssupport.html
: >
:
: I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)
:

Creating sites just for IE, and writting poems about it is just a poor
excuse for lack of knowledge, or care.

 

[Nije Nego]

:
: "Mark Parnell" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
: : > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
: > <[email protected]> spouted in alt.html:
: >
: > > Is it updated?
: >
: > The table? Looks a little out of date - only Opera 7 there (current is
: > 8.5). But since IE hasn't been updated since 2001 (IIRC), updating it
: > would just mean more of a difference between IE and the other browsers
: > listed.
:
: It would be nice to have an updated table.
:
: --

It would also be nice to have an updated browser.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

: I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)
:

Creating sites just for IE, and writting poems about it is just a poor
excuse for lack of knowledge, or care.

Actually this was part of a running joke for a few of us tangled in
Luigi's web, I was in no way endorsing IE!

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

: It would be nice to have an updated table.
:
: --

It would also be nice to have an updated browser.

Touché! Just consider that only after the first 3 columns is the table
obsolete

 

[Nije Nego]

: Nije Nego wrote:
:
: > : I dunno Mark IE is the browser for independent thinking people ;-)
: > :
: >
: > Creating sites just for IE, and writting poems about it is just a poor
: > excuse for lack of knowledge, or care.
: >
:
: Actually this was part of a running joke for a few of us tangled in
: Luigi's web, I was in no way endorsing IE!
:

No problem, I replied to you, but I wrote it to the world.

 

[Patient Guy]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello


Which browser is better is a matter of opinion. Which browser is more
standards-compliant is a simple fact.

Of course, when you're Microsoft and you believe you ARE the standard, and
it's all others who should conform to you, then you have the better,
standard-setting browser rolled into one.

 

[Patient Guy]

Then you have mistakes. Images will look distorted when you put height
and width in the HTML that is not equal to the exact size of the
image.

https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/bilder/oen-elba.jpg
Width: 230px, Height: 230px
Physical Width: 200px, Physical Height: 200px

You also have errors in your CSS file.
https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/default.css

Go here http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/csscheck/
and paste in your css. Browsers are free to ignore your CSS when they
encounter an error.


It depends on how well you construct the pages.


Luigi, if you read threads other than your own, you would know that IE
is very broken. You would also know that Firefox is a
standards-conforming browser, rather than a browser that attempts to
guess what you want, as IE does.


Firefox, of course. Why? Ask Microsoft why they chose not to abide by
the standards.

There actually IS one standard that I wish Firefox WOULD adhere to that IE
actually does adhere to.

For a while now, I have been complaining that FF's table caption styling
is broken and is improperly separated from the edge of the first row of
table cells. This occurs when the table top margin is set. The caption
IS part of the table and so should not be separated from the top
edge/border of the first row of table cells.

This annoying behavior is easily seen by setting a dark-colored background
and light-colored text to the caption, and then putting margin-top in the
table. Vary the margin-top to see the caption go up and down in FF. IE
properly renders the table with the caption ALWAYS adjoined to the top
edge of the first row of table cells.

I am really surprised that this nonsense has been going on for that long a
time and no one has seen it or seen fit to say something about it. The
CSS specification is quite clear on the concept. Given that the use of
captions in tables is as common as a P element or a character entity
reference, well....