Learning C online?

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Zach, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. Zach

    Zach Guest

    Zach, Mar 12, 2008
    #1
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  2. Zach

    Ian Collins Guest

    Zach wrote:
    > What are the best websites (or HTML or PDF free books available for
    > download and if so where) for learning C?
    >

    This question is asked here often, even this week. Search through the
    archives for 'tutorial'

    --
    Ian Collins.
    Ian Collins, Mar 12, 2008
    #2
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  3. Zach

    jacob navia Guest

    Zach wrote:
    > What are the best websites (or HTML or PDF free books available for
    > download and if so where) for learning C?
    >
    > Is this a good site:
    > http://www.space.unibe.ch/comp_doc/c_manual/C/cref.html
    >
    > Zach


    You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    and I try to explain things from the ground up.

    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32


    --
    jacob navia
    jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
    logiciels/informatique
    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    jacob navia, Mar 12, 2008
    #3
  4. Zach

    Richard Guest

    Ian Collins <> writes:

    > Zach wrote:
    >> What are the best websites (or HTML or PDF free books available for
    >> download and if so where) for learning C?
    >>

    > This question is asked here often, even this week. Search through the
    > archives for 'tutorial'


    So are 99% of the questions. What is your point?
    Richard, Mar 12, 2008
    #4
  5. Zach

    Zach Guest

    On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    >
    > You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    > It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    > and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    >
    > http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32


    Hi Jacob,

    I use a Linux OS.

    Zach
    Zach, Mar 13, 2008
    #5
  6. Zach

    WANG Cong Guest

    On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:43:22 -0700,Zach wrote:

    > What are the best websites (or HTML or PDF free books available for
    > download and if so where) for learning C?
    >


    I recommend The C Book, which is available at:
    http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/

    --
    Hi, I'm a .signature virus, please copy/paste me to help me spread
    all over the world.
    WANG Cong, Mar 13, 2008
    #6
  7. Zach said:

    > What are the best websites (or HTML or PDF free books available for
    > download and if so where) for learning C?
    >
    > Is this a good site:
    > http://www.space.unibe.ch/comp_doc/c_manual/C/cref.html


    No, it isn't.

    If you'd like a list of reasons, let me know. If you'd rather save time and
    just have the answer to your original question, check these out:

    Steve Summit's excellent, and rather gentle, tutorial can be found at
    <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/cclass/>; the serious C student will benefit
    most from this tutorial if he or she has a copy of "The C Programming
    Language", 2nd edition, by Kernighan and Ritchie. Tom Torfs takes a rather
    more austere approach; this doesn't suit everybody, but many people have
    found it extremely helpful. His tutorial can be found at
    <http://cprog.tomsweb.net/cintro.html>.

    Essential reference: "The C Programming Language", 2nd Ed. Kernighan &
    Ritchie. Prentice Hall, 1988. ISBN 0-13-110362-8 (paperback), or
    0-13-110370-9 (hardback) - will pay for itself many times over during the
    course of your programming career.

    --
    Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
    Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Richard Heathfield, Mar 13, 2008
    #7
  8. Zach

    santosh Guest

    WANG Cong wrote:

    > On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:43:22 -0700?Zach wrote?
    >
    >> What are the best websites (or HTML or PDF free books available for
    >> download and if so where) for learning C?
    >>

    >
    > I recommend The C Book, which is available at:
    > http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/


    This isn't suitable for a complete beginner though. IME it's even harder
    than K&R2 for someone new to programming.
    santosh, Mar 13, 2008
    #8
  9. Zach

    santosh Guest

    Zach wrote:

    > On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    >>
    >> You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    >> It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    >> and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    >>
    >> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32

    >
    > Hi Jacob,
    >
    > I use a Linux OS.


    You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.

    <http://www.winehq.org/>
    santosh, Mar 13, 2008
    #9
  10. Zach

    Richard Bos Guest

    santosh <> wrote:

    > Zach wrote:
    >
    > > On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    > >> It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    > >> and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    > >>
    > >> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32

    > >
    > > I use a Linux OS.

    >
    > You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.


    The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines, whether
    you should take that risk.

    Richard
    Richard Bos, Mar 13, 2008
    #10
  11. Zach

    santosh Guest

    Richard Bos wrote:

    > santosh <> wrote:
    >
    >> Zach wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    >> >> It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    >> >> and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    >> >>
    >> >> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    >> >
    >> > I use a Linux OS.

    >>
    >> You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in
    >> Linux.

    >
    > The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    > that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines,
    > whether you should take that risk.


    Yes well, I just mentioned the possibility, no value judgements either
    way. That's up to the OP.
    santosh, Mar 13, 2008
    #11
  12. Zach

    jacob navia Guest

    Richard Bos wrote:
    > santosh <> wrote:
    >
    >> Zach wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    >>>> You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    >>>> It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    >>>> and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    >>> I use a Linux OS.

    >> You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.

    >
    > The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    > that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines, whether
    > you should take that risk.
    >
    > Richard


    You are just telling lies.

    You are then, a liar.



    --
    jacob navia
    jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
    logiciels/informatique
    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    jacob navia, Mar 13, 2008
    #12
  13. Zach

    Richard Guest

    santosh <> writes:

    > WANG Cong wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:43:22 -0700?Zach wrote?
    >>
    >>> What are the best websites (or HTML or PDF free books available for
    >>> download and if so where) for learning C?
    >>>

    >>
    >> I recommend The C Book, which is available at:
    >> http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/

    >
    > This isn't suitable for a complete beginner though. IME it's even harder
    > than K&R2 for someone new to programming.


    Sometimes you astonish me Santosh :-;

    It seems only the past couple of days we argued about Knuth's
    suitability for a new programmer ... No. It can't have happened.
    Richard, Mar 13, 2008
    #13
  14. Zach

    Richard Guest

    (Richard Bos) writes:

    > santosh <> wrote:
    >
    >> Zach wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    >> >> It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    >> >> and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    >> >>
    >> >> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    >> >
    >> > I use a Linux OS.

    >>
    >> You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.

    >
    > The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    > that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines, whether
    > you should take that risk.
    >
    > Richard


    What do you mean? Or are you on Jacob's case too now? Why would you
    slander him and his work? Do you provide a free compiler?
    Richard, Mar 13, 2008
    #14
  15. Zach

    jacob navia Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > (Richard Bos) writes:
    >
    >> santosh <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Zach wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    >>>>> You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    >>>>> It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    >>>>> and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    >>>> I use a Linux OS.
    >>> You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.

    >> The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    >> that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines, whether
    >> you should take that risk.
    >>
    >> Richard

    >
    > What do you mean? Or are you on Jacob's case too now? Why would you
    > slander him and his work? Do you provide a free compiler?


    Look,

    In "the other thread" several people started saying that
    "they do not need a debugger", or that "they debug without a debugger".

    I think that those are just "war stories" that they tell us in this
    group since they can't be verified. Then, I said that I doubt that
    anyone can DEBUG code that he/she has NOT seen/written/used when the
    code size exceeds 2000 lines without a debugger.

    THAT has been translated by this liar into:

    "Jacob can't read code beyond 2000 lines"


    --
    jacob navia
    jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
    logiciels/informatique
    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    jacob navia, Mar 13, 2008
    #15
  16. jacob navia said:

    > Richard Bos wrote:
    >> santosh <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Zach wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    >>>>> You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    >>>>> It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    >>>>> and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    >>>> I use a Linux OS.
    >>> You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.

    >>
    >> The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    >> that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines, whether
    >> you should take that risk.
    >>
    >> Richard

    >
    > You are just telling lies.


    "It is impossible for any human to debug a program written by others
    without a debugger, of course if the program has a certain size
    (bigger than, say, 1500 -2000 lines)" - Jacob Navia, in message
    <fr93d2$bpq$>

    It's hard to see how Richard Bos is misrepresenting you.

    > You are then, a liar.


    Richard Bos and I don't always see eye to eye (in fact, I believe I'm in
    his killfile), but he strikes me as being an honorable man, and he is most
    certainly *not* a liar. You owe him an apology. But don't you worry about
    that - just add it to the (rather high and unstable) pile.

    --
    Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
    Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Richard Heathfield, Mar 13, 2008
    #16
  17. Zach

    Richard Bos Guest

    jacob navia <> wrote:

    > Richard Bos wrote:
    > > santosh <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.

    > >
    > > The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    > > that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines, whether
    > > you should take that risk.

    >
    > You are just telling lies.
    >
    > You are then, a liar.


    Leet me quote your very own words:
    # It is impossible for any human to debug a program written by others
    # without a debugger, of course if the program has a certain size
    # (bigger than, say, 1500 -2000 lines)

    If you can read code, you can debug it. If you cannot debug code without
    a debugger, you cannot truly be said to be capable of reading it.
    Glancing at it, perhaps. Browsing it. But reading implies the text going
    through the brain as well as the eyes.

    So now you call me a liar? If I were you, I'd check the slander laws in
    your country.

    Richard
    Richard Bos, Mar 13, 2008
    #17
  18. Zach

    Richard Guest

    Richard Heathfield <> writes:

    > jacob navia said:
    >
    >> Richard Bos wrote:
    >>> santosh <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Zach wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    >>>>>> You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    >>>>>> It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    >>>>>> and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    >>>>> I use a Linux OS.
    >>>> You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.
    >>>
    >>> The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    >>> that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines, whether
    >>> you should take that risk.
    >>>
    >>> Richard

    >>
    >> You are just telling lies.

    >
    > "It is impossible for any human to debug a program written by others
    > without a debugger, of course if the program has a certain size
    > (bigger than, say, 1500 -2000 lines)" - Jacob Navia, in message
    > <fr93d2$bpq$>
    >
    > It's hard to see how Richard Bos is misrepresenting you.


    It's perfectly easy to see how he is misrepresenting him. Reading code
    is NOT the same as debugging code. The fact that I agree with Jacob for
    pretty much all but the most trivial code is not the point. The point is
    that Jacob was talking about debugging largish programs - not reading
    the code.

    In fact from this discussion I would trust Jacob more that Richard since
    he believes in using the right tools for the job rather than some
    reliance on "reading the code" or doing the awful printf and assert
    approach which leads to heisenbugs.

    >
    >> You are then, a liar.

    >
    > Richard Bos and I don't always see eye to eye (in fact, I believe I'm in
    > his killfile), but he strikes me as being an honorable man, and he is most
    > certainly *not* a liar. You owe him an apology. But don't you worry about
    > that - just add it to the (rather high and unstable) pile.


    No he doesn't. Who appointed you judge and jury? Richard is the man
    making allegations about Jacob being "incapable" of reading code. This
    was a lie. Pure and simple.

    So, maybe YOU should apologise?

    Where do you get off slandering Jacob all the time? Amazing.
    Richard, Mar 13, 2008
    #18
  19. Zach

    Richard Guest

    jacob navia <> writes:

    > Richard wrote:
    >> (Richard Bos) writes:
    >>
    >>> santosh <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Zach wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Mar 12, 7:13 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    >>>>>> You can download my tutorial, and the compiler that goes with it.
    >>>>>> It is an easy system to install (6MB download, 30 second install)
    >>>>>> and I try to explain things from the ground up.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    >>>>> I use a Linux OS.
    >>>> You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.
    >>> The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    >>> that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines, whether
    >>> you should take that risk.
    >>>
    >>> Richard

    >>
    >> What do you mean? Or are you on Jacob's case too now? Why would you
    >> slander him and his work? Do you provide a free compiler?

    >
    > Look,
    >
    > In "the other thread" several people started saying that
    > "they do not need a debugger", or that "they debug without a debugger".
    >
    > I think that those are just "war stories" that they tell us in this
    > group since they can't be verified. Then, I said that I doubt that
    > anyone can DEBUG code that he/she has NOT seen/written/used when the
    > code size exceeds 2000 lines without a debugger.
    >
    > THAT has been translated by this liar into:
    >
    > "Jacob can't read code beyond 2000 lines"


    No. I saw. Bos appears to be another arrogant clc prick with delusions
    of grandeur. Killfile him. He's clearly got an agenda to lie and smear
    your name for some reason - at least it's very apparent from his
    slanderous claims about your code reading ability.
    Richard, Mar 13, 2008
    #19
  20. Zach

    Richard Guest

    (Richard Bos) writes:

    > jacob navia <> wrote:
    >
    >> Richard Bos wrote:
    >> > santosh <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> You can still use lcc-win32 (and it's executables) under WINE in Linux.
    >> >
    >> > The right question, given that its author is (by his own admission, in
    >> > that other thread) incapable of reading code beyond 2000 lines, whether
    >> > you should take that risk.

    >>
    >> You are just telling lies.
    >>
    >> You are then, a liar.

    >
    > Leet me quote your very own words:
    > # It is impossible for any human to debug a program written by others
    > # without a debugger, of course if the program has a certain size
    > # (bigger than, say, 1500 -2000 lines)
    >
    > If you can read code, you can debug it. If you cannot debug code
    > without


    Yes you can. With a debugger. or in your head - SOMETIMES.

    > a debugger, you cannot truly be said to be capable of reading it.


    Garbage.

    > Glancing at it, perhaps. Browsing it. But reading implies the text going
    > through the brain as well as the eyes.


    Ye gods, you're an arrogant arse. So if I give you a printout of say
    300,000 lines of C, are you telling me you can "read it" and point out
    all thebugs? No. You could not. Even the mighty you.

    >
    > So now you call me a liar? If I were you, I'd check the slander laws in
    > your country.


    You appear to by lying or twisting the truth in order to slander Jacob
    and his product. Why is this?

    There is NO equivalence between reading code and debugging it.

    None whatsoever. Equivalence that is. Reading does not mean
    simultaneous debugging.

    Clearly you need to be able to read code to debug it. But reading code
    does not mean you are able debug it properly without other tools.
    Richard, Mar 13, 2008
    #20
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