Learning to program

[master_programmer]

Hi

I hope that I am posting to the right place. I want to learn
programming and am looking at a language too choose. I thought about
C++ but my friend told me thats its old fashioned and will be replaced
by more modern computer languages like Visual Basic and Cold Fusion.

Is it true that not many people use C++ anymore? What is the best
language to learn?

 

[Stefan Rickfjord]

Hi there,

your friend's comment depend on what you want to do. When creating a
big application which has high demands on effective resource management
(i.e. database implementations, CAD-applications or other
calculation-intensive applications) you more or less have to use an
effective language. C/C++ are still among the most widely used in these
applications due to their extremely fast and effective compiled
binaries.

Languages like VB.Net are easy to use and provide a lot of
functionalities that aid the programmer such as memory management but
these languages are not effective enough when making the kinds of
applications I described in the above section.

When considering operating system, you simply can't use an interpreted
language like .NET or Java because they require a virtual computer to
interpret the Java/.Net bytecode created by the compilers in these
languages.

So, my tip to you is actually to begin with C++, maybe C and learn
this. This is probably the biggest threshold to get over. When you are
familiar with these languages, you won't have any problems at all
learning any other (similar) language like VB et.c. By similar I mean
no other imperative and / or objective-oriented language.

C/C++ has features called pointers that are extremely effective, but
also quite dangerous to use if not used properly. They don't exist in
Java/.Net so I believe it's better to start with the hard stuff than to
later on discover that there is a lot of features that you don't know
how to use.

So, if you don't have an unlimited amount of time think about what you
want to do when programming, web-stuff, applications for operating
systems or low level, hardware-controlling applications for operating
systems? Each of these (more or less) should give you a different set
of tools you'd want to use. If you do have an unlimited amount of time,
go for it, learn the basics in C/C++ and just keep on going...

I hope this helped somewhat

Best regards,
Stefan Rickfjord
M.Sc. Software Engineer

 

[Rolf Magnus]

Hi

I hope that I am posting to the right place. I want to learn
programming and am looking at a language too choose.

I guess a more general programming newsgroup like comp.programming might be
better for this question.

I thought about C++ but my friend told me thats its old fashioned and will
be replaced by more modern computer languages like Visual Basic and Cold
Fusion.

Visual Basic is not really modern. And it's also only available under
Windows, while C++ compilers exist for virtually every system that can
differentiate between 0 and 1. It might be a good choice for beginners, but
I'd rather tend to use a more portable language for this, like python.

Is it true that not many people use C++ anymore?
No.

What is the best language to learn?

That pretty much depends on what you want to do. C++ is a general purpose
langage, so you can use it for many things. Still, some tasks are easier in
other languages.

 

[Robert J. Hansen]

I hope that I am posting to the right place. I want to learn

programming and am looking at a language too choose. I thought about
C++ but my friend told me thats its old fashioned and will be replaced
by more modern computer languages like Visual Basic and Cold Fusion.

What does it mean for a computer language to be "old fashioned"?

I'm fond of a language called LISP, which was first developed in the
1950s and is still going strong today. It's literally the first high
level computer language. You don't get older than that--and yet, I
wouldn't say LISP is "old fashioned" at all.

Visual Basic .NET isn't newfangled. The idea of a language that
compiles down to a portable bytecode format dates back to UCSD Pascal
and the 1970s. Should we say VB.NET is "old fashioned"?

The question isn't whether a language is 'modern' or 'old'. The
question is much simpler than that: is the language effective at the
tasks for which it's used? For C++, the answer is clearly yes. And
it's fun to hack in, too, which is just icing on the cake.

Is it true that not many people use C++ anymore? What is the best
language to learn?

The _best_ language for a beginner to learn is: whatever one makes you
happy.

C++ may not make you happy, at least at first. Beginners tend to look
at C++ source code and get scared by all the weird symbols. If this is
true for you, there's no shame in it, and it doesn't mean you have no
potential as a programmer. It just means some other programming
language will make you happy, and you should find it.

On the other hand, if you can look at a page of stuff you don't
understand and see it as a challenge to be overcome, not as an
insurmountable obstacle... then you're in the right place, and we'd
love to help you out. Most of us here love programming in C++. I know
that I do. Here's hoping we can show you why.

 

[Greg Comeau]

I hope that I am posting to the right place. I want to learn
programming and am looking at a language too choose. I thought about
C++ but my friend told me thats its old fashioned and will be replaced
by more modern computer languages like Visual Basic and Cold Fusion.

Is it true that not many people use C++ anymore? What is the best
language to learn?

C++ is still a top language. Even since its inception people
has been discussing its demise but there is no indication that
it is happening any time soon, and even reasons to believe the
contrary.

BTW, IIRC VB is decades old now too, certainly 1.5 of them.

Anyway, IMO, there is nothing wrong with learning C++ as
a first language, with proper instruction (as would be -- or
at least should be -- the case with any first language).
You don't say what some of your goals etc are so it's unclear
if this is what you should do or not though.

 

[Greg Comeau]

...
C++ may not make you happy, at least at first. Beginners tend to look
at C++ source code and get scared by all the weird symbols. If this is
true for you, there's no shame in it, and it doesn't mean you have no
potential as a programmer. It just means some other programming
language will make you happy, and you should find it.

Clearly it does not have to mean that. Recalling when I first
learned programming, it was _all_ hierogliphics to me, even the
so-called simple stuff.

 

[Robert J. Hansen]

Clearly it does not have to mean that. Recalling when I first

learned programming, it was _all_ hierogliphics to me, even the
so-called simple stuff.

I've had excellent luck using Python as a language to introduce people
to programming, and then shifting to C++ by increments. YMMV, of
course, but there are several languages out there that appear to be far
less intimidating to newcomers.

 

[osmium]

I hope that I am posting to the right place. I want to learn
programming and am looking at a language too choose. I thought about
C++ but my friend told me thats its old fashioned and will be replaced
by more modern computer languages like Visual Basic and Cold Fusion.

Is it true that not many people use C++ anymore? What is the best
language to learn?

There is no "best" language. What are the best tools to have to build a
building? If you are building a skyscraper you want come-alongs and impact
wrenches. If you are building houses you want portable circular saws and
power nailers. Programming presents similar problems, the language of
choice depends on what is going to be done. If you are working for a
paycheck, someone else will most likely make the choice for you. Largely
because of this, most of the people that consider themselves serious
programmers know several languages - with a focus on a particular language
for a period of a few years.

Visual Basic was aimed at hobbyist programmers and grew. It is not "more
modern" than C++, not that being modern is an especially good quality. Java
is probably the most taught course for beginners right now. A few years ago
it was Pascal. If Microsoft has their way, ten years from now it will be
C#.


This link provides a kind of humorous survey of the different languages

http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/abc.html

I wish someone would start a web site similar to that in a more serious
vein. Something like evaluating a quadratic equation would be my favorite
idea.

 

[noone]

What does it mean for a computer language to be "old fashioned"?

..=100h
mov ah,3
lea dx,[hello]
int 21h
int 20h
hello db "hello world!$"

I'm fond of a language called LISP,

You are a sick unit, aren't you? Too many blasted "()"

I'll stick with fortran4 and algol, with a lite sprinkle of APL.
Oh, and let's not forget RPG.

 

[Victor Bazarov]

[..]
Oh, and let's not forget RPG.

Reverse Polish ... <what?>

 

[osmium]

[..]
Oh, and let's not forget RPG.

Reverse Polish ... <what?>

Report Program Generator. Think punched cards. I think of it as a kind of
replacement for a plugboard.

 

[Robert J. Hansen]

You are a sick unit, aren't you? Too many blasted "()"

Honestly, I'm surprised more C++ geeks aren't also LISP geeks. There
are some deep and beautiful parallels between C++ templates and LISP
macros...

 

[Default User]

You are a sick unit, aren't you? Too many blasted "()"

But that's its name! Lots of Idiotic Single Parentheses.




Brian

 

[Greg Comeau]

I've had excellent luck using Python as a language to introduce people
to programming, and then shifting to C++ by increments. YMMV, of
course, but there are several languages out there that appear to be far
less intimidating to newcomers.

As you say YMMV but IME there is no magic bullet and so called easier
languages can be illusory for beginners. I've also found non-language
aspects are often be the actual underlying intimidation with language
features used as the scapegoat. This is not to say that certain
languages are not more complex etc than others.

 

[Jerry Coffin]

[ ... ]

I'll stick with fortran4 and algol, with a lite sprinkle of APL.
Oh, and let's not forget RPG.

Quite the contrary -- please DO let us forget RPG. In fact, for having
reminded us of it, you are hereby sentenced to spend one hour listening
to whichever pop singer is most admired by 14 year-old girls right now.

[Note from the US Supreme Court: we're very sorry to announce that Mr.
Coffin will be absent for some time due to attempting to impose a cruel
and unusual punishment on....wait a minute....did you say RPG?

[some time passes]

Upon review of the full particulars of the case, we find that the
evidence is dispositive, and the punishment was entirely reasonable.]