Licensing tool

Discussion in 'Java' started by Ravi, Dec 24, 2007.

  1. Ravi

    Ravi Guest

    Please suggest me best licensing tool/utility to support for the java
    product.
    Any link helps me suggest the differenceies between the licensing
    products
    Ravi, Dec 24, 2007
    #1
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  2. Ravi

    Guest

    On Dec 24, 8:36 am, Ravi <> wrote:
    > Please suggest me best licensing tool/utility to support for the java
    > product.


    The best "licensing tool" to support your software is none at all. The
    software will be much more useful, usable, trustworthy, and valuable
    to your customers if you do not cripple it with code deliberately
    designed to make it sometimes not work, hobble it with spyware, and
    riddle it with back door functionality.
    , Dec 28, 2007
    #2
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  3. Ravi

    Joe Attardi Guest

    wrote:
    > The best "licensing tool" to support your software is none at all. The
    > software will be much more useful, usable, trustworthy, and valuable
    > to your customers if you do not cripple it with code deliberately
    > designed to make it sometimes not work, hobble it with spyware, and
    > riddle it with back door functionality.


    What's wrong with a company (which, presumably, exists to make money)
    trying to make money off of software they create?

    Surely free/open source software and commercial software can coexist
    without conspiracy theories such as deliberately including spyware and
    backdoors?

    Case in point: Eclipse vs IntelliJ IDEA. Personally, I prefer Eclipse
    because it is free. But IDEA is a wonderfully put together application
    as well. No spyware or backdoors, just a really solid Java IDE. It's
    JetBrains' prerogative if they want to charge for it. If I had the money
    to spare, I'd consider buying it. Luckily there are two great free
    alternatives - Eclipse and NetBeans. Not always the case, unfortunately,
    but that doesn't mean commercial software should be discouraged.

    Unless you ask the FSF, of course, and then anything other than
    completely free and open software is the devil's work.
    Joe Attardi, Dec 28, 2007
    #3
  4. Andrew Thompson, Dec 29, 2007
    #4
  5. Ravi

    Guest

    On Dec 28, 1:24 pm, Joe Attardi <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > The best "licensing tool" to support your software is none at all. The
    > > software will be much more useful, usable, trustworthy, and valuable
    > > to your customers if you do not cripple it with code deliberately
    > > designed to make it sometimes not work, hobble it with spyware, and
    > > riddle it with back door functionality.

    >
    > What's wrong with a company (which, presumably, exists to make money)
    > trying to make money off of software they create?


    Why, nothing, of course. But then that wasn't what I was objecting to,
    either.

    > Surely free/open source software and commercial software can coexist
    > without conspiracy theories such as deliberately including spyware and
    > backdoors?


    Surely they can, and indeed they often do. Which makes me wonder why
    the OP wants to include such in the software he's developing.

    > Case in point: Eclipse vs IntelliJ IDEA. Personally, I prefer Eclipse
    > because it is free. But IDEA is a wonderfully put together application
    > as well. No spyware or backdoors, just a really solid Java IDE. It's
    > JetBrains' prerogative if they want to charge for it.


    Sure it is. And its my prerogative if I want to use Eclipse instead,
    and yours if you want to pay and use IDEA instead. But none of this is
    relevant to the original issue, which was an OP wanting to put WGA-
    style user-hostile "functionality" into his product. Apparently he
    hasn't learned from what's happened to Microsoft over WGA, and Sony
    over their rootkit, and the like.

    > If I had the money
    > to spare, I'd consider buying it. Luckily there are two great free
    > alternatives - Eclipse and NetBeans. Not always the case, unfortunately,
    > but that doesn't mean commercial software should be discouraged.


    If I'd been trying to discourage commercial software then you'd have a
    point here. But I'm not. I'm merely trying to discourage particular
    nasty, user-hostile deliberate sabotage of products. That's just plain
    stupid -- wanting users to pay for the privilege of being spied on and
    subjected to a central ability to shut down their productivity, and
    for what?

    It's not like the commercial software business model depends on doing
    such dirty tricks. Microsoft made a mint of Windows 3.1 and Windows
    95/98/ME, without any of those having "license manager" components or
    other evil WGA-like stuff; same with many versions of Office. The most
    they sometimes had was a CD key wanted by the install process. Nothing
    that stayed active, phoning home or meddling with the user's use of
    the software after the fact. Sure, a lot of illicit copies got
    installed, and MS never got paid for those, but MS wouldn't have
    gotten paid for those anyway, and MS DID get paid for a lot of other
    copies, enough to become huge and for the CEO to become the richest
    man on the planet -- BEFORE WGA. So don't tell me that things like WGA
    are at all necessary to having a commercial software business model.

    > Unless you ask the FSF, of course, and then anything other than
    > completely free and open software is the devil's work.


    Of course, the FSF's views are not at issue here either.
    , Dec 31, 2007
    #5
  6. Ravi

    Joe Attardi Guest

    wrote:
    > Surely they can, and indeed they often do. Which makes me wonder why
    > the OP wants to include such in the software he's developing.

    The OP makes no mention of this in the original post. The original post
    said:

    "Please suggest me best licensing tool/utility to support for the java
    product.
    Any link helps me suggest the differenceies between the licensing
    products"

    Given the fact that English is not the OP's first language, it seems a
    safe assumption that the OP is simply asking about a package or library
    to handle serial number/license management. How does this translate to
    spyware and rootkits, exactly?

    > And its my prerogative if I want to use Eclipse instead,
    > and yours if you want to pay and use IDEA instead.

    You may want to re-read the paragraph you just quoted. Particularly the
    part that says, "I prefer Eclipse"...

    > the original issue, which was an OP wanting to put WGA-
    > style user-hostile "functionality" into his product. Apparently he
    > hasn't learned from what's happened to Microsoft over WGA, and Sony
    > over their rootkit, and the like.

    Again I reiterate - there was nothing in the original post that
    specified WGA-style "user-hostile" functionality...

    > I'm merely trying to discourage particular
    > nasty, user-hostile deliberate sabotage of products. That's just plain
    > stupid -- wanting users to pay for the privilege of being spied on and
    > subjected to a central ability to shut down their productivity, and
    > for what?

    If the OP was inquiring about this style of license management, I'd be
    totally in agreement with you. WGA-style "activation" schemes is
    certainly hostile to the user and _should_ be discouraged! But I
    honestly don't think this is what the OP was asking about here...

    > So don't tell me that things like WGA
    > are at all necessary to having a commercial software business model.

    Oh, no, they are definitely not necessary - that wasn't the point I was
    trying to make - On WGA and the like, you and I are in perfect
    agreement; it is simply wrong.

    I think you misunderstood the OP's original question - or, maybe I did
    instead - we'll never know unless Ravi posts again with more detailed
    information.
    Joe Attardi, Dec 31, 2007
    #6
  7. Ravi

    Guest

    On Dec 31 2007, 2:04 pm, Joe Attardi <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Surely they can, and indeed they often do. Which makes me wonder why
    > > the OP wants to include such in the software he's developing.

    >
    > The OP makes no mention of this in the original post. The original post
    > said:
    >
    > "Please suggest me best licensing tool/utility to support for the java
    > product.
    > Any link helps me suggest the differenceies between the licensing
    > products"
    >
    > Given the fact that English is not the OP's first language, it seems a
    > safe assumption that the OP is simply asking about a package or library
    > to handle serial number/license management. How does this translate to
    > spyware and rootkits, exactly?


    "Licensing tool" brings to mind things like what Adobe recently got
    into hot water over -- it was, more or less, spyware. Simple serial
    number type stuff is not what that term brings to mind for me. Even
    that, I'd say, is unnecessary and user-hostile, though far less so
    than more elaborate copy protection schemes. Plenty of commercial
    software has been released in history that did not use any mechanisms
    like this at all and could easily be copied, yet sold enough for the
    company selling it to survive and make a tidy profit. In fact, studies
    have shown that the ability to get copies for free not only doesn't
    significantly depress sales of such software, but may actually
    increase them, as people who would not pay anyway get copies, and some
    of these recommend it to their friends, or network effects kick in
    such as occur if the "freeloaders" produce documents unreadable by
    other software. (Pirated copies of MSOffice are thought to have
    actually contributed somewhat to M$'s bottom line by such indirect
    mechanisms during the nineties.)

    Ultimately, this stems more generally from the fact that "freeloaders"
    on a nonrival resource don't have the negative impact of freeloaders
    on a limited resource.

    > > the original issue, which was an OP wanting to put WGA-
    > > style user-hostile "functionality" into his product. Apparently he
    > > hasn't learned from what's happened to Microsoft over WGA, and Sony
    > > over their rootkit, and the like.

    >
    > Again I reiterate - there was nothing in the original post that
    > specified WGA-style "user-hostile" functionality...


    Specified? No. Implied? Perhaps. The OP being warned of the
    consequences of using user-hostile methods will do no harm if he never
    intended to, and may be of benefit if he did, but changes his mind as
    a result of the recommendation not to use such methods.

    Other people reading this may also find something useful in this.

    > If the OP was inquiring about this style of license management, I'd be
    > totally in agreement with you. WGA-style "activation" schemes is
    > certainly hostile to the user and _should_ be discouraged!


    That's good.

    > Oh, no, they are definitely not necessary - that wasn't the point I was
    > trying to make - On WGA and the like, you and I are in perfect
    > agreement; it is simply wrong.
    >
    > I think you misunderstood the OP's original question - or, maybe I did
    > instead - we'll never know unless Ravi posts again with more detailed
    > information.


    Which, given that over a week has passed now without further posts by
    Ravi, seems unlikely, for better or worse.

    (Odd -- Joe Attardi being polite and not very confrontational? Maybe a
    positive sign. :))
    , Jan 3, 2008
    #7
  8. Ravi

    Joe Attardi Guest

    wrote:
    > (Odd -- Joe Attardi being polite and not very confrontational? Maybe a
    > positive sign. :))

    I have no quarrel with you in this thread - just in a different one.
    There's no reason to spill it over into this one too (lest we end up
    with another "Great SWT Program") :)
    Joe Attardi, Jan 3, 2008
    #8
  9. Ravi

    Roedy Green Guest


    >> Please suggest me best licensing tool/utility to support for the java
    >> product.


    see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/installer.html

    Simple installers will make your code run for 30 days, thereafter need
    a digitally signed version of the user's name. These could be fairly
    easily defanged, but most users are not up to such hacking.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    The Java Glossary
    http://mindprod.com
    Roedy Green, Jan 9, 2008
    #9
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