Linking to a Targeted Browser Window

Discussion in 'HTML' started by randau, May 9, 2005.

  1. randau

    randau Guest

    Linking to a Targeted Browser Window

    I'd like to open reference links to other web sites in a
    separate browser window from the browser window hosting my
    own web site pages. The Link Target reserve word "_blank"
    opens a blank new browser window for every link, which can
    sometimes result in a lot of open browser windows.

    Is there no way to "reuse" a previously linked browser
    window and have it load the new web page in Foreground
    instead of loading it in Background? When it loads in
    Background, it appears to users like nothing happened when
    they don't know they should look in the background browser
    window.

    My current understanding of the use of the TARGET attribute
    within Link html tags is shown below.

    Link:
    ---------------------------------------
    <A HREF="http://www.site.com/page.html"
    TARGET="window ID name or reserved Value">
    Displayed Text</A>
    ---------------------------------------
    Reserved Values for TARGET:
    "_blank" Loads the link into a new blank window.
    "_parent" Loads the link into the immediate parent of the
    document the link is in.
    "_self" Loads the link into the same window. (default)
    "_top" Loads the link into the full body of the current
    window.

    --
    randau
    Oregon, USA

    I read and post from the Google Groups web site using a Spam
    collecting email address that I don't use for anything else.
    So if someone wants to contact me, please cleanup and use
    the Spam resistant Email address below.

    randau2...(at)...proaxis.com
     
    randau, May 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. randau wrote:

    > I'd like to open reference links to other web sites in a
    > separate browser window from the browser window hosting my
    > own web site pages. The Link Target reserve word "_blank"
    > opens a blank new browser window for every link, which can
    > sometimes result in a lot of open browser windows.
    >
    > Is there no way to "reuse" a previously linked browser
    > window and have it load the new web page in Foreground
    > instead of loading it in Background?


    I guess you could use JavaScript - window.focus, or whatever. For visitors
    without JavaScript enabled, _blank might be a reasonable compromise.

    Follow-ups narrowed.

    Thor

    --
    http://www.anta.net/OH2GDF
     
    Thor Kottelin, May 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. randau

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 9 May 2005 11:10:38 -0700, "randau" <>
    wrote:

    >Is there no way to "reuse" a previously linked browser
    >window and have it load the new web page in Foreground
    >instead of loading it in Background?


    target="_foo"
    target="_bar"
    target="_bat"

    A leading underscore in the target name triggers a new window (in most
    browsers), but it'll be re-used if you select another link with the same
    target.
     
    Andy Dingley, May 10, 2005
    #3
  4. randau

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Previously in
    alt.html,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html,microsoft.public.webdesign.html,
    randau <> said:

    [f'ups set to alt.html]
    > I'd like to open reference links to other web sites in a
    > separate browser window


    Then use the appropriate measures built into your browser to do so
    (usually holding down a key on the keyboard, e.g. Shift, while clicking
    the link, clicking on the link with the middle mouse button, right
    clicking and selecting "Open Link in New Window", etc.).

    IOW:

    It's Not About What You Want, It's About What Your Visitor Wants[TM]

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    alt.html FAQ :: http://html-faq.com/
     
    Mark Parnell, May 10, 2005
    #4
  5. randau

    Lachlan Hunt Guest

    Andy Dingley wrote:
    > On 9 May 2005 11:10:38 -0700, "randau" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Is there no way to "reuse" a previously linked browser
    >>window and have it load the new web page in Foreground
    >>instead of loading it in Background?

    >
    > target="_foo"
    > target="_bar"
    > target="_bat"
    >
    > A leading underscore in the target name triggers a new window


    A leading underscore for any target name, other than the four predefined
    values: _blank, _top, _parent and _self, is non-conformant [1].

    Except for the reserved names listed below, frame target names
    (%FrameTarget; in the DTD) must begin with an alphabetic character
    (a-zA-Z). User agents should ignore all other target names.

    Using any value will, in most browsers, open a new window with that name
    assigned; unless a frame or window with that name already exists, in
    which case, it will reuse the same window/frame.

    However, please don't open new windows, it's really irritating for
    user's and has accessibility issues [2].

    [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/types.html#type-frame-target
    [2] http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html
    --
    Lachlan Hunt
    http://lachy.id.au/
    http://GetFirefox.com/ Rediscover the Web
    http://GetThunderbird.com/ Reclaim your Inbox
     
    Lachlan Hunt, May 10, 2005
    #5
  6. randau

    David Ross Guest

    randau wrote:
    >
    > Linking to a Targeted Browser Window
    >
    > I'd like to open reference links to other web sites in a
    > separate browser window from the browser window hosting my
    > own web site pages. The Link Target reserve word "_blank"
    > opens a blank new browser window for every link, which can
    > sometimes result in a lot of open browser windows.
    >
    > Is there no way to "reuse" a previously linked browser
    > window and have it load the new web page in Foreground
    > instead of loading it in Background? When it loads in
    > Background, it appears to users like nothing happened when
    > they don't know they should look in the background browser
    > window.
    >
    > My current understanding of the use of the TARGET attribute
    > within Link html tags is shown below.
    >
    > Link:
    > ---------------------------------------
    > <A HREF="http://www.site.com/page.html"
    > TARGET="window ID name or reserved Value">
    > Displayed Text</A>
    > ---------------------------------------
    > Reserved Values for TARGET:
    > "_blank" Loads the link into a new blank window.
    > "_parent" Loads the link into the immediate parent of the
    > document the link is in.
    > "_self" Loads the link into the same window. (default)
    > "_top" Loads the link into the full body of the current
    > window.


    DON'T!! See "The Scourge of New Windows" at
    <URL:http://karlcore.com/articles/article.php?id=25>.

    In general, you should let the user decide whether to open a new
    window -- or a new tab within the current window -- when selecting
    the link. Don't take that option away from the user.

    Note that I said "in general". On my own Web site, there is one
    page (out of about 200) for which I launch a new window. It's a
    glossary of terms. Links to it from my other pages are the terms.
    In this one case, I launch a new window because I judged that the
    user might want to keep switching back and forth between the
    glossary page and a page with terms defined in the glossary.

    On the other hand, trying to keep your own page on a user's desktop
    while the user browses pages at other sites is at best annoying.
    Some corporate, news, and other commercial sites do this in hope of
    keeping their brand names in front of the user. Yes, it does keep
    the brand name visible -- so that I can learn what brand is so
    annoying I won't buy it.

    --

    David E. Ross
    <URL:http://www.rossde.com/>

    I use Mozilla as my Web browser because I want a browser that
    complies with Web standards. See <URL:http://www.mozilla.org/>.
     
    David Ross, May 10, 2005
    #6
  7. randau

    randau Guest

    Thanks for all your replies. I'm convinced of your feelings
    about not opening new browser windows, especially after
    reading a couple of your linked articles on the subject.

    I've only recently started doing it. Now I'm convinced
    about its not being a good idea. So I'm going to go back
    and undo the TARGET attributed links used on a few of my
    more recently posted web pages. I wish I'd of asked about
    it earlier.

    My Windows'ME, IE Browser 6 opens new browser windows as
    partial windows (not full size). For myself, I kind of
    liked it when some web sites opened links to other sites in
    new browser windows. That's where I got the idea. But I
    concede, if they're being opened as full screen size windows
    completely hiding the parent window, that could be
    disorienting to a lot of users.

    Thanks again for your replies.
    --
    randau
    Oregon, USA
     
    randau, May 10, 2005
    #7
  8. randau

    randau Guest

    Thanks for all your replies. I'm convinced of your feelings
    about not opening new browser windows, especially after
    reading a couple of your linked articles on the subject.

    I've only recently started doing it. Now I'm convinced
    about its not being a good idea. So I'm going to go back
    and undo the TARGET attributed links used on a few of my
    more recently posted web pages. I wish I'd of asked about
    it earlier.

    My Windows'ME, IE Browser 6 opens new browser windows as
    partial windows (not full size). For myself, I kind of
    liked it when some web sites opened links to other sites in
    new browser windows. That's where I got the idea. But I
    concede, if they're being opened as full screen size windows
    completely hiding the parent window, that could be
    disorienting to a lot of users.

    Thanks again for your replies.
    --
    randau
    Oregon, USA
     
    randau, May 10, 2005
    #8
  9. randau

    randau Guest

    Thanks for all your replies. I'm convinced of your feelings
    about not opening new browser windows, especially after
    reading a couple of your linked articles on the subject.

    I've only recently started doing it. Now I'm convinced
    about its not being a good idea. So I'm going to go back
    and undo the TARGET attributed links used on a few of my
    more recently posted web pages. I wish I'd of asked about
    it earlier.

    My Windows'ME, IE Browser 6 opens new browser windows as
    partial windows (not full size). For myself, I kind of
    liked it when some web sites opened links to other sites in
    new browser windows. That's where I got the idea. But I
    concede, if they're being opened as full screen size windows
    completely hiding the parent window, that could be
    disorienting to a lot of users.

    Thanks again for your replies.
    --
    randau
    Oregon, USA
     
    randau, May 10, 2005
    #9
  10. randau wrote:
    <snip>
    > ... . For myself, I kind of liked it when some
    > web sites opened links to other sites in new
    > browser windows. That's where I got the idea. ...

    <snip>

    Under most circumstances, if you right-click a link you will often be
    presented with a context menu offering you the option of opening the
    link in a new browser instance/window (and/or a new tab on tabbed
    browsers). You can do that whenever, and exactly when, you want. They
    are very user friendly; web browsers, so long as they arn't messed about
    too much.

    Richard.
     
    Richard Cornford, May 11, 2005
    #10
  11. randau

    jake Guest

    In message <>,
    randau <> writes
    >Thanks for all your replies. I'm convinced of your feelings
    >about not opening new browser windows, especially after
    >reading a couple of your linked articles on the subject.
    >
    >I've only recently started doing it. Now I'm convinced
    >about its not being a good idea. So I'm going to go back
    >and undo the TARGET attributed links used on a few of my
    >more recently posted web pages.


    Pity. Linking to an external Web site via another window is a good
    thing.

    If anything goes wrong with the other site it's much easier to kill the
    window and be automatically returned to the original site, rather than
    have to kill the browser and reload it.

    > I wish I'd of asked about
    >it earlier.


    You might want to reconsider ;-)
    >
    >My Windows'ME, IE Browser 6 opens new browser windows as
    >partial windows (not full size). For myself, I kind of
    >liked it when some web sites opened links to other sites in
    >new browser windows.


    Becoming pretty much a standard approach these days.

    >That's where I got the idea. But I
    >concede, if they're being opened as full screen size windows
    >completely hiding the parent window, that could be
    >disorienting to a lot of users.


    Only for people who've been using the www for less than 5 minutes.
    >
    >Thanks again for your replies.
    >--
    >randau
    >Oregon, USA
    >

    regards.
    --
    Jake
     
    jake, May 11, 2005
    #11
  12. randau

    me Guest

    >>I've only recently started doing it. Now I'm convinced
    >>about its not being a good idea. So I'm going to go back
    >>and undo the TARGET attributed links used on a few of my
    >>more recently posted web pages.

    >
    > Pity. Linking to an external Web site via another window is a good thing.
    >
    > If anything goes wrong with the other site it's much easier to kill the
    > window and be automatically returned to the original site, rather than
    > have to kill the browser and reload it.



    I have to agree with Jake.
    These new windows are much easier to work with. And I think that people say
    they don't like them, is because they remind them of pop-up ad screens which
    is something completly different in my opinion.

    Hans
    Netherlands
     
    me, May 11, 2005
    #12
  13. randau

    randau Guest

    Jake wrote:
    >randau wrote:
    >>But I concede, if they're being opened as full screen size
    >>windows completely hiding the parent window, that could be
    >>disorienting to a lot of users.

    >
    >Only for people who've been using the www for less
    >than 5 minutes.windows


    I agree with most of what you said except for the above.

    However, I would like to have the option of reusing external
    windows and have them display in the Foreground instead of
    loading the new linked web page in Background. To an
    unaware user, it looks like nothing happened.

    The only other alternative seems to be "_blank" which opens
    a new window for every link, which could result in opening
    too many external windows.
     
    randau, May 11, 2005
    #13
  14. randau

    randau Guest

    Richard wrote:
    >Under most circumstances, if you right-click a link you will
    >often be presented with a context menu offering you the
    >option of opening the link in a new browser instance/window
    >(and/or a new tab on tabbed browsers). You can do that
    >whenever, and exactly when, you want. They are very user
    >friendly; web browsers, so long as they arn't messed about
    >too much.


    More often than not, you don't think about doing that till
    after the fact even when you do know how it's done. You
    don't always know whether or not the link is to another
    web site. It may just be an internal link. Then there's
    how many users that don't bother or even know how to open
    links in new windows. These are some of the reasons I
    thought it might be a good idea to do it.
     
    randau, May 11, 2005
    #14
  15. Re: Re: Linking to a Targeted Browser Window

    On Tue, 10 May 2005 01:15:39 GMT, Lachlan Hunt <> wrote:

    >Andy Dingley wrote:
    >> On 9 May 2005 11:10:38 -0700, "randau" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Is there no way to "reuse" a previously linked browser
    >>>window and have it load the new web page in Foreground
    >>>instead of loading it in Background?

    >>
    >> target="_foo"
    >> target="_bar"
    >> target="_bat"
    >>
    >> A leading underscore in the target name triggers a new window

    >
    >A leading underscore for any target name, other than the four predefined
    >values: _blank, _top, _parent and _self, is non-conformant [1].
    >
    > Except for the reserved names listed below, frame target names
    > (%FrameTarget; in the DTD) must begin with an alphabetic character
    > (a-zA-Z). User agents should ignore all other target names.
    >
    >Using any value will, in most browsers, open a new window with that name
    >assigned; unless a frame or window with that name already exists, in
    >which case, it will reuse the same window/frame.
    >
    >However, please don't open new windows, it's really irritating for
    >user's and has accessibility issues [2].
    >
    >[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/types.html#type-frame-target
    >[2] http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html


    Seeing this subject has come up, I thought I'd throw in a related question.

    I have a page set up with frames (a top bar, side bar & viewing window). It
    all seems to work fins except for one annoyance .....
    The 'viewing window' (or frame) is used to display full size pictures. If I
    view the picture in a separate window, IE will resize any 'too big' pictures to
    fit the window but if I view the picture in the 'viewing window' (or frame) it
    is not resized and you have to pan around to see the whole thing.
    My current work around is the resize all pictures to fit the 'viewing window'
    (frame).

    What am I doing wrong?

    If you want to see what I mean, go yo www.cobracat.com, go to the Photo Gallery
    & look at anything before 2003 and the MacQuarie Innovation pictures (these
    haven't been resized)


    --

    Australia isn't "down under", it's "off to one side"!


    www.cobracat.com (home of the Australian Cobra Catamaran)
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cobra-cat/
     
    Stan Blazejewski, May 12, 2005
    #15
  16. randau

    kchayka Guest

    Stan Blazejewski wrote:
    >
    > The 'viewing window' (or frame) is used to display full size pictures. If I
    > view the picture in a separate window, IE will resize any 'too big' pictures to
    > fit the window but if I view the picture in the 'viewing window' (or frame) it
    > is not resized


    This is an option in IE, see Tools->Internet Options->Advanced, under
    Multimedia

    You cannot control this for your visitors, only for yourself.

    --
    Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
    Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
     
    kchayka, May 12, 2005
    #16
  17. randau

    Dan Guest

    jake wrote:
    > In message <>,
    > randau <> writes
    > >That's where I got the idea. But I
    > >concede, if they're being opened as full screen size windows
    > >completely hiding the parent window, that could be
    > >disorienting to a lot of users.

    >
    > Only for people who've been using the www for less than 5 minutes.


    I've been using the Web for over 10 years, and I strongly dislike sites
    opening new windows on me.

    --
    Dan
     
    Dan, May 12, 2005
    #17
  18. randau

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Re: Re: Linking to a Targeted Browser Window

    Previously in
    alt.html,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html,microsoft.public.webdesign.html,
    Stan Blazejewski <> said:

    [f'ups to alt.html]
    > I have a page set up with frames (a top bar, side bar & viewing window). It
    > all seems to work fins except for one annoyance .....


    The frames?

    > The 'viewing window' (or frame) is used to display full size pictures. If I
    > view the picture in a separate window, IE will resize any 'too big' pictures to
    > fit the window but if I view the picture in the 'viewing window' (or frame) it
    > is not resized and you have to pan around to see the whole thing.


    IIRC IE's Image Resizing Thingy[TM] only works if you access the image
    directly, not if it is part of a web page.

    > What am I doing wrong?


    Using frames.

    http://www.htmlhelp.com/design/frames/whatswrong.html
    http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
    http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
    http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html (see under "Your page uses
    frames")
    http://www.markparnell.com.au/articles/frames.php

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    alt.html FAQ :: http://html-faq.com/
     
    Mark Parnell, May 13, 2005
    #18
  19. randau

    jake Guest

    In message <>, Dan
    <> writes
    >
    >jake wrote:
    >> In message <>,
    >> randau <> writes
    >> >That's where I got the idea. But I
    >> >concede, if they're being opened as full screen size windows
    >> >completely hiding the parent window, that could be
    >> >disorienting to a lot of users.

    >>
    >> Only for people who've been using the www for less than 5 minutes.

    >
    >I've been using the Web for over 10 years, and I strongly dislike sites
    >opening new windows on me.
    >

    You may dislike them, but I doubt that you find them disorienting.

    regards,

    --
    Jake
     
    jake, May 13, 2005
    #19
  20. randau

    kchayka Guest

    jake wrote:
    > In message <>,
    > randau <> writes
    >
    >>if they're being opened as full screen size windows
    >>completely hiding the parent window, that could be
    >>disorienting to a lot of users.

    >
    > Only for people who've been using the www for less than 5 minutes.


    I guess you don't hang around "normal" computer users much.

    I watch my sister work every time I want a reality check. She only uses
    full-size windows on her puny 800x600 screen, and since she can't
    multi-task, there should never be more than 1 app/window open at a time.
    Anything out of the ordinary comes up and she gets real confused.
    However, one thing she does know how to use is the "back" button. New
    windows break this functionality, so it is indeed a source of confusion.
    For her.

    And her kind is probably a lot more common than you think.

    --
    Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
    Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
     
    kchayka, May 13, 2005
    #20
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