Links / URLs in a usenet message

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Daan, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. Daan

    Daan Guest

    Not directly related to html, but I was curious about the following.
    When you want to include the URL of a page in a usenet message, some
    people add less-then and greater-then signs to the URL (like this:
    <http://www.example.com>), others don't (like this:
    http://www.example.com). What is the meaning of this, if any, or what is
    accepted etiquette for the use of them?

    --
    Daan
     
    Daan, Aug 4, 2004
    #1
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  2. Daan

    Kris Guest

    In article <cerja2$irf$>,
    Daan <> wrote:

    > Not directly related to html, but I was curious about the following.
    > When you want to include the URL of a page in a usenet message, some
    > people add less-then and greater-then signs to the URL (like this:
    > <http://www.example.com>), others don't (like this:
    > http://www.example.com). What is the meaning of this, if any, or what is
    > accepted etiquette for the use of them?


    AFAIK, those characters cannot be part of a URL, so they are the perfect
    delimiters for a URL in a line of text. Can you spot where the following
    URL is supposed to end?

    foo bar foo bar http://foo.bar/foo, bar.

    --
    Kris
    <> (nl)
     
    Kris, Aug 4, 2004
    #2
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  3. Daan

    Neal Guest

    On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 23:09:17 +0200, Daan <> wrote:

    > Not directly related to html, but I was curious about the following.
    > When you want to include the URL of a page in a usenet message, some
    > people add less-then and greater-then signs to the URL (like this:
    > <http://www.example.com>), others don't (like this:
    > http://www.example.com). What is the meaning of this, if any, or what is
    > accepted etiquette for the use of them?
    >



    My newsreader allows either - but the < and > really don't add anything. I
    would simply add the URL without the brackets.

    BTW, a better way to link is http://www.example.com/ - the terminal / will
    be added anyhow, so including it saves a bit of time and bandwidth.
     
    Neal, Aug 4, 2004
    #3
  4. Daan

    Lois Guest

    "Neal" wrote:
    but the < and > really don't add anything.

    One time after I'd sent out an email with a URL in it to a mailing list, one
    person wrote back to say that she hadn't been able to get the link to open
    when she clicked on it because it had a period at the end. I'd put it at the
    end of a sentence, like this link: www.example.com/page.html. She suggested
    that I put < and > around future links in emails to avoid that problem.

    I'm guessing that the period wouldn't affect most users (?), but it did
    affect at least one.

    Lois
     
    Lois, Aug 5, 2004
    #4
  5. Daan

    Dave Patton Guest

    Daan <> wrote in
    news:cerja2$irf$:

    > Not directly related to html, but I was curious about the following.
    > When you want to include the URL of a page in a usenet message, some
    > people add less-then and greater-then signs to the URL (like this:
    ><http://www.example.com>), others don't (like this:
    > http://www.example.com). What is the meaning of this, if any, or what is
    > accepted etiquette for the use of them?


    http://www.w3.org/Addressing/rfc1738.txt
    RFC 1738 Uniform Resource Locators (URL) December 1994
    APPENDIX: Recommendations for URLs in Context
    URIs, including URLs, are intended to be transmitted through
    protocols which provide a context for their interpretation.

    In some cases, it will be necessary to distinguish URLs from other
    possible data structures in a syntactic structure. In this case, is
    recommended that URLs be preceeded with a prefix consisting of the
    characters "URL:". For example, this prefix may be used to
    distinguish URLs from other kinds of URIs.

    In addition, there are many occasions when URLs are included in other
    kinds of text; examples include electronic mail, USENET news
    messages, or printed on paper. In such cases, it is convenient to
    have a separate syntactic wrapper that delimits the URL and separates
    it from the rest of the text, and in particular from punctuation
    marks that might be mistaken for part of the URL. For this purpose,
    is recommended that angle brackets ("<" and ">"), along with the
    prefix "URL:", be used to delimit the boundaries of the URL. This
    wrapper does not form part of the URL and should not be used in
    contexts in which delimiters are already specified.

    --
    Dave Patton
    Canadian Coordinator, Degree Confluence Project
    http://www.confluence.org/
    My website: http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
     
    Dave Patton, Aug 5, 2004
    #5
  6. Daan

    Neal Guest

    On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:41:09 -0700, Lois <>
    wrote:

    > "Neal" wrote:
    > but the < and > really don't add anything.
    >
    > One time after I'd sent out an email with a URL in it to a mailing list,
    > one
    > person wrote back to say that she hadn't been able to get the link to
    > open
    > when she clicked on it because it had a period at the end. I'd put it at
    > the
    > end of a sentence, like this link: www.example.com/page.html. She
    > suggested
    > that I put < and > around future links in emails to avoid that problem.
    >
    > I'm guessing that the period wouldn't affect most users (?), but it did
    > affect at least one.


    It can. But I have the habit of putting a space around the URLs anyhow. So
    even if I end a phrase with http://www.example.com/ , I'll add a space to
    keep the punctuation out of it. Same with a sentence ending with
    http://www.example.com/ . Seems to work universally AFAIK.
     
    Neal, Aug 5, 2004
    #6
  7. In article <xpeQc.244$>,
    "Lois" <> wrote:

    > "Neal" wrote:
    > but the < and > really don't add anything.
    >
    > One time after I'd sent out an email with a URL in it to a mailing list, one
    > person wrote back to say that she hadn't been able to get the link to open
    > when she clicked on it because it had a period at the end.


    Alright, newsreader check.

    If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    to a custom 404 page: http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm.

    If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    to a custom 404 page: <http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm>.

    Interested but slightly bored minds want to know.

    --
    Joel.

    http://www.cv6.org/
    "May she also say with just pride:
    I have done the State some service."
     
    Joel Shepherd, Aug 5, 2004
    #7
  8. Daan

    Neal Guest

    On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 04:53:12 GMT, Joel Shepherd <>
    wrote:

    > Alright, newsreader check.
    >
    > If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    > to a custom 404 page: http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm.


    Butternut.

    > If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    > to a custom 404 page: <http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm>.


    Butternut.
     
    Neal, Aug 5, 2004
    #8
  9. Daan

    Dave Patton Guest

    Joel Shepherd <> wrote in
    news::

    > Alright, newsreader check.
    >
    > If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    > to a custom 404 page: http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm.
    >
    > If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    > to a custom 404 page: <http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm>.
    >
    > Interested but slightly bored minds want to know.


    My newsreader, Xnews, doesn't highlight either of them,
    but both are handled properly(as the URL, not the 404 page)
    if I click on them.

    --
    Dave Patton
    Canadian Coordinator, Degree Confluence Project
    http://www.confluence.org/
    My website: http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
     
    Dave Patton, Aug 5, 2004
    #9
  10. Daan

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Daan wrote:

    > Not directly related to html, but I was curious about the following.
    > When you want to include the URL of a page in a usenet message, some
    > people add less-then and greater-then signs to the URL


    There is certainly an advantage of using '<URL:' and '>' to delimit a URL:
    many smart readers can use these hints to know where the URL begins and
    ends, even over line breaks. For example, in Opera you have <URL:http://www.
    google.com/> (with the line break!) and still be able to click on it and
    get to Google!

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Aug 5, 2004
    #10
  11. Daan

    Arondelle Guest

    Joel Shepherd wrote:
    > Alright, newsreader check.


    Netscape Mail 7.1

    > If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    > to a custom 404 page: http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm.


    No. It takes me to a page on the "Butternut"

    > If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    > to a custom 404 page: <http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm>.


    No. It *also* me to a page on the "Butternut"

    > Interested but slightly bored minds want to know.


    Arondelle

    --
    ===========================================================
    To email me, empty the pond with a net
     
    Arondelle, Aug 5, 2004
    #11
  12. Daan

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Joel Shepherd wrote:
    > In article <xpeQc.244$>,
    > "Lois" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Neal" wrote:
    >>but the < and > really don't add anything.
    >>
    >>One time after I'd sent out an email with a URL in it to a mailing list, one
    >>person wrote back to say that she hadn't been able to get the link to open
    >>when she clicked on it because it had a period at the end.

    >
    >
    > Alright, newsreader check.
    >
    > If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    > to a custom 404 page: http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm.
    >
    > If your newsreader highlights the following as a link does it take you
    > to a custom 404 page: <http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/yard/yn4.htm>.
    >
    > Interested but slightly bored minds want to know.
    >


    Both worked.

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
     
    SpaceGirl, Aug 5, 2004
    #12
  13. Daan

    Sam Hughes Guest

    Arondelle <> wrote in news:%woQc.10734$412.6798
    @trndny04:

    > No. It *also* me to a page on the "Butternut"


    You got also'ed too?? Wow I thought I was the only one :D


    --
    Accessible web designs go easily unnoticed;
    the others are remembered and avoided forever.
     
    Sam Hughes, Aug 5, 2004
    #13
  14. Daan

    Sam Hughes Guest

    Daan <> wrote in news:cerja2$irf$1
    @netlx020.civ.utwente.nl:

    > Not directly related to html, but I was curious about the following.
    > When you want to include the URL of a page in a usenet message, some
    > people add less-then and greater-then signs to the URL (like this:
    > <http://www.example.com>), others don't (like this:
    > http://www.example.com). What is the meaning of this, if any, or


    I get sick and tired of worrying about whether browsers will include
    characters like commas and periods in URLs, so I put them in angle
    brackets. Actually, in _every_ instance in which I write out a URL in
    text, I put angle brackets around it, becuase I consider it to be good
    style. In fact, I would say that it _is_ good style to use angle
    brackets, but that's mainly because I like using them myself :).

    > what is
    > accepted etiquette for the use of them?


    There is no accepted etiquette. For there to be an etiquette, or
    netiquette, for their use, there would have to be zealots inflicting this
    netiquette upon other users. And there are none, because it's not an
    issue :). Just make sure you disconnect trailing punctuation from
    messing up URLs like they do in this one:
    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl.


    --
    Accessible web designs go easily unnoticed;
    the others are remembered and avoided forever.
     
    Sam Hughes, Aug 5, 2004
    #14
  15. Neal <> wrote:

    > BTW, a better way to link is http://www.example.com/ - the terminal /
    > will be added anyhow, so including it saves a bit of time and
    > bandwidth.


    No, http://www.example.com and http://www.example.com/ are completely
    equivalent. This is different from http://www.example.com/foo
    which may result in an unneeded negotiation between the browser and the
    server, if it will actually get mapped to http://www.example.com/foo/

    For an explanation see
    http://www.htmlhelp.com/faq/html/basics.html#url-slash

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Aug 5, 2004
    #15
  16. Dave Patton <> wrote:

    > RFC 1738 Uniform Resource Locators (URL) December 1994


    It was obsoleted in matters of generic URL syntax (which we are
    discussing here) in August 1998 by RFC 2396.

    RFC 2396 takes a somewhat different position to "URLs in context", see
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/rfc/2396/full.html#E

    In practice, just leaving white space around a URL is fine. However if
    you need to spit a URL across lines, as in Usenet postings when the URL
    is long, then the <...> syntax, or some other delimiters, is needed.
    There's an example of such usage in RFC2396:

    Yes, Jim, I found it under "http://www.w3.org/Addressing/",
    but you can probably pick it up from <ftp://ds.internic.
    net/rfc/>. Note the warning in <http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/
    ietf/uri/historical.html#WARNING>.

    which isn't such a great example, since it is hardly useful to deploy
    _different_ delimiters, and those particular URLs could each be written
    on one line.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Aug 5, 2004
    #16
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