Little offtopic "ASP.NET vs. notouch apps"

[Guest]

Not going to happen. period...why? Because there are going to still be web
sites out there that are PHP, JSP, ColdFusion, etc.....

Second, these NO Touch apps are going to be HARD to USE anyway as arrogant
programmers don't bother to ask if what they are doing makes sense.

Third, if you want a RICH CLIENT, the CEO, COO, CTO, CIO and everyone up and
down the line is going to use Macromedia FLASH anyway...they got a
established technology, better graphics and sound people, etc.

Fouth, you have to have a "TRAINING" manual to use that new Win32
app....aghhhh.....not so with web sites.......

The only people who advocate Win No-Touch deployment are the those that are
still dragging and dropping controls and have ZERO web page experience.

Then there is this thing about a URL of which Win apps don't have....Nor can
you diagnose problems like you can with a URL, nor can you send out
e-mails....nor can someone over the Internet see your app without installing
some mess on their computer...

In some companies, they don't even let java app or even some javascript on
their intranet browser...so you can darn well KISS no-touch web app GOODBYE
are those are so easy to hack, or cause someone computer to crash,
information stolen....you name it......virus magnet......

I could see the first company to use no-touch app and the programmers didn't
completely test it and then 50% of the computers go down........

There is ZIPPO advantage.......


So, you can say "no-touch" is NOT going to be TOUCHED by companies.....

 

[Flare]

Hi

I just read and experimented with normal .net GUI apps and deployed them
with notouch deployment strategie as smartclients.

Is it just me, or i this an very neglected topic?

For me it seems like the death of complicatet webpages full of hacks, and
the always present problem with browser incompatibility.

For those who dosent know what notouch deployment is about, its actually a
quite simple concept. Your simply put your compiled .net win32 gui exe file
in a virtual dir on IIS. Now if someone redirects their browser to that URL
they fetch the program and it will automaticly popup, BUT in a safe
envoriment. This safe envoriment can off course be custimized to eg.
intranets. The exe file for at little gui interface is about 20 kb... Your
could of course just place a shortcut on the user desktop, so it would look
like a normal app.

This seems like a great replacement for webpages, and for now, especially
intranets.

The only draw back is that clients need the framework installed, but all XP
dist. is packed with it, so in a year thats seems less problem.

Looking forward to some feedbacks!

Regards
Anders, Denmark

 

[Flare]

So, you can say "no-touch" is NOT going to be TOUCHED by companies.....

Im looking forward to see other inputs on this (thx for yours). Your
oppinons are good, thoug a little shallow, you say they are pure bad
things....

Regards
Anders

 

[Tim Stephenson]

Anders,

Notouch deployment is a very good thing for deploying "smart client" apps.
It's also absolutely ideal if you need to minimise administrative effort for
deploying and updating applications that can either operate within the
confines of an internal network, or across the internet.

Providing the application is signed, you can also create custom application
security groups on the target machines (via a "proper" MSI file) to allow
the
application to do useful stuff like accessing the filesystem if needed.

To address your point about smart clients replacing web pages, yes - smart
clients are now beginning to be used to replace administration type
webpages, often employing HTTP based webservices to allow them to be run
anywhere on the net.

However, these applications will never replace a web application when
cross-platform compatibility is needed or if the client computer's OS /
environment is not known. There are many advantages to using a web based
application for information presentation or site maintenance, but as we all
know the environment is rather limited.
Yes, Flash is an option for presenting content but doesn't by any means
provide all the answers.

If the GUI needs to be complex, and / or include rich windows forms
controls, then a smart client is probably the best option. If however it
will need to run across lots of different platforms, or be accessed by lots
of different devices, then a web application may be a better move. Smart
Client / notouch applications will not replace webapplications or
traditional "thick" clients for general information presentation, though
they are starting to be used to replace admin type web applications etc.

Hope this helps clarify the situation with notouch deployment.

 

[Rajesh.V]

Now flare, i would say no-touch is the thing to use, and i feel they are
goin to end web dominance. Its high time that such a poorly designed
technology, which has been refitted, and outfitted, patched up somuch has
been replaced by something sound. Ofcourse it wud take time but this sort of
reaction is common when anything newcomes.

 

[Guest]

Yes, Flash is an option for presenting content but doesn't by any means
provide all the answers.

Yes, it might not provide all the answers, but it's probably the best answer
overall.

It's got graphics, sounds, speed in download, undateability, animation...
If you tried to do that with a Windows no-touch app, it would take you
forever and it would never compare to the FLASH designers out there in terms
of quality..I have even seen some FLASH in 3-D.

You can easily make changes as well on the fly without having this huge
no-touch download.

Plus, you can play lots and lots of games on FLASH....I would like to see a
non-game programmer do that with a Windows no-touch app......there are tons
of FLASH games on Yahoo right now....

But most business apps are...."give me the answer in simple terms" so rich
clients are not that important. I have seen all these market analysis
packages and they do nothing for the bottom line of the company as customer
want "simple" in the first place. I have seen a lot of these 3d or 4d
Charts and they are so confusing they miss the point, a simple 2-d chart
done right can speak volumes more than a 4-d chart. A lot of the fancy
charts only show executive what they already know in the first place, so you
end up having them use it once and then they never use it anymore afterwards
cause it doesn't tell anything new that they don't already know on the
field.....

Any GUI that is rich or complex is probably headed in the wrong direction
unless it catering to a developer or graphic designer in the first place
that's trying to make something....

People want simple clients NOT rich clients. Look at Yahoo, remember they
have a really simple portal and then Netscape, Excite, Go, Alta Vista,
etc....They all made their portals really fancy with tons and tons of
information....and then guess what? They, finally after 2years, realized
that Yahoo was right.....Look at Google..that's simple as well. PayPal,
blogger, DMOZ, HotOrNot....all simple......

 

[Tim Stephenson]

I think we're coming at this from different ends of the stick....

Notouch applications will NEVER replace general HTML based web sites / web
applications for any situation where information needs to be presented to
the general public, or accessible from an uncontrolled client environment.

However, in known environments (such as a corporate's internal network or
maybe extranet), a no-touch application IS a viable alternative to web
applications for presenting information or providing access to some sort of
administration system.
No-touch allows the use of a rich GUI environment, which simply cannot be
provided by flash or simple HTML.

I'm well aware of Flash's abilities as I'm a professional internet systems
developer. I'm also well aware of its limitations.

 

[Guest]

Macromedia just announced that FLASH is being used in s NNT's DoCoMo cell
phones

http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2003/ntt_docomo.html

FLASH blows away this so called Rich GUI that Windows can give to the user.

If you want to look at the track record of FLASH vs. this Windows Rich GUI,
there is no comparison.

FLASH wins hands down.

The FLASH designers out there will crush any Windows no-touch RICH GUI
business app.

The creativity of FLASH designers in itself if far far better than any
Windows GUI Rich app that I have ever every seen.

You know it, and I know it.

Plus, you can always put FLASH on the web.......

 

[Tim Stephenson]

It really is a shame that you just don't get the whole idea of the "bigger
picture".

Good luck with your flash.