<marquee> alternative

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Marc Bradshaw, May 10, 2009.

  1. A client has asked for, effectively, a <marquee> at the top of each page
    to draw attention to promotion of his latest offers.

    My view is that these look somewhat old-fashioned and that the tag was
    obviously depreciated for a reason. So as, a compromise, I put in a
    <ul> and wrote javascript to fade the <li>s in and out, meaning that if
    javascript wasn't available the <ul> would display as a plain list, and
    there was also a button to change it back to a plain list.

    The customer didn't like this and still wants having scrolling text of
    some sort. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions, or can point
    me towards some pre-written scripts that might be what I'm looking for?

    --
    Marc Bradshaw
    BEA Solutions Ltd.

    Portsmouth, UK
     
    Marc Bradshaw, May 10, 2009
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Marc Bradshaw wrote:

    > A client has asked for, effectively, a <marquee> at the top of each
    > page to draw attention to promotion of his latest offers.


    Good for his competitors.

    > My view is that these look somewhat old-fashioned


    Right, and they don't work the intended way. People just don't wait to see
    what's coming. People may even actively ignore all animation that looks like
    advertisement.

    > and that the tag was
    > obviously depreciated for a reason.


    It was never part of any HTML spec. "Deprecated" means, in HTML parlance, a
    feature that browsers are required to support but authors are discouraged
    from using.

    > So as, a compromise, I put in a
    > <ul> and wrote javascript to fade the <li>s in and out, meaning that
    > if javascript wasn't available the <ul> would display as a plain
    > list, and there was also a button to change it back to a plain list.


    Why? It's the same bad idea implemented in a clumsier and less reliable
    manner.

    > The customer didn't like this and still wants having scrolling text of
    > some sort.


    Your call. Do it if you just want to get paid. If you respect the customer,
    tell him why the idea is bad.

    There are other methods of animation that may work reasonably well. Using
    Flash probably gives maximal flexibility. Simple animation like text that
    gets replaced by other text could be implemented as an animated GIF or using
    simple timed JavaScript. But the customer should first decide what he really
    wants. This also depends on the page as a whole.

    Animated content tends to either get ignored (as I wrote) or to draw all of
    the user's attention, so that nothing else on the page really matters. So
    animation could make sense e.g. on an error message page where it highlights
    a button for getting online help with the error situation.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, May 10, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Marc Bradshaw

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    On May 10, 11:37 am, Marc Bradshaw <> wrote:
    > A client has asked for, effectively, a <marquee> at the top of each page
    > to draw attention to promotion of his latest offers.
    >
    > My view is that these look somewhat old-fashioned and that the tag was
    > obviously depreciated for a reason.  So as, a compromise, I put in a
    > <ul> and wrote javascript to fade the <li>s in and out, meaning that if
    > javascript wasn't available the <ul> would display as a plain list, and
    > there was also a button to change it back to a plain list.


    > The customer didn't like this and still wants having scrolling text of
    > some sort.  Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions, or can point
    > me towards some pre-written scripts that might be what I'm looking for?


    Marquee comes from the browser war era when IE had marquee and
    Netscape had flashing text. Although not part of modern W3C html,
    marquee will still be displayed on many browsers now in use.

    What you do to please your client is your call. However if you will go
    to http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex2/index.html you will find
    a glut of free scripts for all sorts of moving text. There are demos
    of most and what browsers the scripts work on is pointed out. Using
    the scripts is mainly a matter of copy and paste. You could show some
    of these effects that strike your fancy to your client and let him or
    her choose one with little effort. A few still turn script off, so you
    might want to include a no script path if that is of concern.
     
    cwdjrxyz, May 10, 2009
    #3
  4. Marc Bradshaw

    Gus Richter Guest

    Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    > Marc Bradshaw wrote:
    >
    >> ...... the tag was
    >> obviously depreciated for a reason.

    >
    > It was never part of any HTML spec.



    But it will be part of HTML5.
    All browsers of today support marquee and have supported it for quite
    some time already. If I recall correctly, Mozilla decided to support it
    a few years back because of the popularity of this IE proprietary
    element in the Chinese market.

    --
    Gus
     
    Gus Richter, May 10, 2009
    #4
  5. Marc Bradshaw

    dorayme Guest

    In article <gu79tq$80p$>,
    Gus Richter <> wrote:

    > Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    > > Marc Bradshaw wrote:
    > >
    > >> ...... the tag was
    > >> obviously depreciated for a reason.

    > >
    > > It was never part of any HTML spec.

    >
    >
    > But it will be part of HTML5.
    > All browsers of today support marquee and have supported it for quite
    > some time already. If I recall correctly, Mozilla decided to support it
    > a few years back because of the popularity of this IE proprietary
    > element in the Chinese market.


    The validator at validator.w3.org, when including the marquee element
    marks the doc invalid and remarks:

    "by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "<spacer>" or
    "<marquee>" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired
    effect instead)".

    In the OP's case, not so simple to just use "CSS". OP might be able to
    persuade client to use the loop attribute to limit the annoyance? Use an
    odd number if you want the text to end up on the left!

    I suggest as a controlled annoying:

    <marquee behavior="alternate" loop="3">This is some text</marquee>

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 10, 2009
    #5
  6. Marc Bradshaw

    rf Guest

    Marc Bradshaw wrote:
    > A client has asked for, effectively, a <marquee> at the top of each
    > page to draw attention to promotion of his latest offers.


    Tell the client no.

    > My view is that these look somewhat old-fashioned and that the tag was
    > obviously depreciated for a reason.


    Because it's a stupid thing to do. But it was not _deprecated_, it was never
    part of any HTML specification.

    > So as, a compromise, I put in a
    > <ul> and wrote javascript to fade the <li>s in and out, meaning that
    > if javascript wasn't available the <ul> would display as a plain
    > list, and there was also a button to change it back to a plain list.


    Equally bad.

    > The customer didn't like this and still wants having scrolling text of
    > some sort.


    Fortunately I can choose my clients. If one of them wants, for example, a
    marquee I tell them no, and then attempt to educate them in the error or
    their ways.

    If they insist I suggest they might be happier with some *other* developer.

    > Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions, or can point
    > me towards some pre-written scripts that might be what I'm looking
    > for?


    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=marquee scripts

    Pick any one of the quarter of a million hits. Then pick one of the one
    point eight million hits for

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why marquee is bad :)
     
    rf, May 10, 2009
    #6
  7. Thanks for everyone's comments.

    Ben C wrote:
    > The behaviour is in CSS3, so presumably the idea is the default
    > stylesheet will just set the new properties on marquee elements.
    >
    > But it is at least defined properly in CSS3. IE marquee is totally
    > weird. Inline but the full width of the container by default (and other
    > strange things no-one understands).


    Yeah, I found this: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-marquee/

    It seems it can be applied to static text as a presentation format.
    Does anyone know how widely this is supported yet?

    I also found this which is a javascript (jQuery) script which makes the
    <marquee> tag scroll more smoothly and slower. But I suppose at the end
    of the day it is still scrolling text.

    http://remysharp.com/2008/09/10/the-silky-smooth-marquee/

    At the end of the day, I understand my client's reasons - he wants to
    draw attention to this text more so than the rest of his page. Thus
    being distracting is his objective. I just don't want to cause
    accessibility issues and I very rarely put live a page which doesn't
    validate, and I'd hate to ignore the HTML specifications for the sake of
    some scrolling text.

    --
    Marc Bradshaw
    BEA Solutions Ltd.

    Portsmouth, UK
     
    Marc Bradshaw, May 11, 2009
    #7
  8. Hi cwdjrxyz,

    cwdjrxyz wrote:
    > What you do to please your client is your call. However if you will go
    > to http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex2/index.html you will find
    > a glut of free scripts for all sorts of moving text. There are demos
    > of most and what browsers the scripts work on is pointed out. Using
    > the scripts is mainly a matter of copy and paste. You could show some
    > of these effects that strike your fancy to your client and let him or
    > her choose one with little effort. A few still turn script off, so you
    > might want to include a no script path if that is of concern.


    Yeah, I saw that. The problem is that most of those scripts are ancient
    - the newest I found was 2002 - and none of them use semantic mark-up.
    Some even rely on the scrolling text content being in the javascript!

    If I'm going to give him a marquee of some sort, I'd at least like it to
    follow basic accessibility good practice so that if they have javascript
    disabled the existing HTML will work just fine, thus my <ul>.

    --
    Marc Bradshaw
    BEA Solutions Ltd.

    Portsmouth, UK
     
    Marc Bradshaw, May 11, 2009
    #8
  9. Marc Bradshaw

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 10 May, 17:37, Marc Bradshaw <> wrote:
    > A client has asked for, effectively, a <marquee> at the top of each page
    > to draw attention to promotion of his latest offers.


    Fair enough. Just make sure that you present it in a way that's not
    especially annoying, is just about readable, and most importantly that
    you address accessibility in general by only using it to show content
    that's already available by other means.

    I wouldn't mark it up with <marquee>, for two reasons:

    * The default presentation of <marquee> is generally poor (over-
    irritating), even when it is supported. You ought to implement marquee-
    like behaviour with your own JavaScript (or Flash, or even JavaFX) and
    so there's no _need_ to use <marquee> as content markup.

    * <marquee> is purely presentational markup, no describing the
    structure of the content. So even notwithstanding the question of
    whether it's permitted under your chosen HTML doctype, it's not a
    great piece of markup anyway. As you've seemingly already done, a list
    is a good way to markup the content (wrap it up with display: none; to
    hide it generally, after all you're only duplicating existing
    accessible content).

    The rest is JavaScript frog-work, and a bit of design creativity to
    keep your client happy (fixated on one idea, looks at the same page
    too often) whilst retaining good usability for your site visitors
    (never been to the site before, have a goal-centred task in mind,
    don't want to be distracted by rubbish in the meantime)

    You might find looking at the BBS News site and their ticker
    interesting.

    If your marquee is a series of clickable links (and I can't think of a
    justification for one that isn't) then make sure they're easily
    clickable, without having to play a game of "whack-a-mole" to select
    the link. Maybe slow them, stop them, or even skip backwards slightly
    when you hover the mouse over. The BBC's marquee looks nice, but it's
    hard to select for navigation.
     
    Andy Dingley, May 11, 2009
    #9
  10. Marc Bradshaw

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    On May 11, 4:15 am, Marc Bradshaw <> wrote:
    > Hi cwdjrxyz,
    >
    > cwdjrxyz wrote:
    > > What you do to please your client is your call. However if you will go
    > > tohttp://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex2/index.htmlyou will find
    > > a glut of free scripts for all sorts of moving text. There are demos
    > > of most and what browsers the scripts work on is pointed out. Using
    > > the scripts is mainly a matter of copy and paste. You could show some
    > > of these effects that strike your fancy to your client and let him or
    > > her choose one with little effort. A few still turn script off, so you
    > > might want to include a no script path if that is of concern.

    >
    > Yeah, I saw that.  The problem is that most of those scripts are ancient
    > - the newest I found was 2002 - and none of them use semantic mark-up.
    > Some even rely on the scrolling text content being in the javascript!


    If you think some of these scripts are ancient, you should have seen
    some of them just a few years ago when they had to use 3 paths to
    support IE4 (document.all), NN4 (layers), and (getElementBy ID) for
    more modern browsers. In many cases these scripts have been changed to
    support modern browsers, and often support for such as IE4 and NN4 has
    been dropped resulting in much shorter scripts. Usually just a few
    minor changes will bring the script up to modern standards. If you
    write in any version of xhtml, scripts may contain code that causes
    xml errors and hence throw errors in the xhtml validation. The most
    easy way to overcome this is to use the script as an external script.
    Also you now use <script type="text/javascript">. Some of the older
    scripts may use language only instead of this, and that throws an
    error on html validation. Other than that, the nuts and bolts of
    script have not changed so much over several years. Scripts that use
    evaluate( ) a lot often are quite old, but still often work. The
    people over at the javascript groups are more than happy to point out
    what is wrong with depending on evaluate in most cases. I see nothing
    wrong with having the scrolling text content within the script. You
    just have to have some text message in the noscript path in case
    script is turned off, and that message might not be the same as for
    the scrolling text.

    > If I'm going to give him a marquee of some sort, I'd at least like it to
    > follow basic accessibility good practice so that if they have javascript
    > disabled the existing HTML will work just fine, thus my <ul>.
     
    cwdjrxyz, May 11, 2009
    #10
  11. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Ben C <> writing
    in news::

    > On 2009-05-11, Andy Dingley <> wrote:
    > [...]
    >> * <marquee> is purely presentational markup, no describing the
    >> structure of the content.

    >
    > How is it any more presentational than, say, <h1> or <p>?
    >


    H1 is a heading, P is a paragraph, they are structural elements.

    Marquee, like B, I and U are purely presentational.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, May 11, 2009
    #11
  12. Ben C wrote:
    > On 2009-05-11, Adrienne Boswell <> wrote:
    >> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Ben C <> writing
    >> in news::
    >>
    >>> On 2009-05-11, Andy Dingley <> wrote:
    >>> [...]
    >>>> * <marquee> is purely presentational markup, no describing the
    >>>> structure of the content.
    >>> How is it any more presentational than, say, <h1> or <p>?
    >>>

    >> H1 is a heading, P is a paragraph, they are structural elements.
    >>
    >> Marquee, like B, I and U are purely presentational.

    >
    > But it's not like B, I or U. The word "marquee" does not describe
    > anything to do with text presentation. It means a tent, but also the
    > awning or canopy in front of a hotel, and by extension any kind of
    > banner designed to attract attention. It is similar to a heading only
    > grander.


    No, <h1> & <p> as Adrienne states have a particular function, H1 is a
    heading, P is a paragraph they may have different styling but their
    function to the document remains the same.

    Marquee describes a particular "look" or style where the text ticks
    across the screen. It may be a heading, but it may not. A marquee will
    not be a marquee if in its appearance is does not tick across like a
    marquee. In contrast a heading will still be a heading even if it does
    not have the default "look" of being bolder, bigger, and with and
    vertical margin...

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, May 11, 2009
    #12
  13. Marc Bradshaw

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 11 May, 14:40, Ben C <> wrote:
    > On 2009-05-11, Andy Dingley <> wrote:
    > [...]
    >
    > > *  <marquee> is purely presentational markup, no describing the
    > > structure of the content.

    >
    > How is it any more presentational than, say, <h1> or <p>?


    Because <h1> is a heading and is (by and large) used for such a
    purpose fairly consistently.

    <marquee> is used for scrolling tickers, where the fundamental
    defining characteristic is sideways scrolling. Although you construct
    a logically plausible interpretation as, "by extension any kind of
    banner designed to attract attention. It is similar to a heading only
    grander. " this isn't widely followed.

    Take http://news.bbc.co.uk/ as an example

    There area huge "BBC" and "News" banners that are comparable to a
    couple of <h1>, but are used as branding rather than heading. You
    might not even have noticed they were there any more, they're so
    familiarly ignored.

    The lead news story is highlighted with the next-largest heading on
    the page, but this is only slightly bigger than the headings for other
    stories. There's no strong "MAIN STORY" theme here, it's a newspaper
    approach like the old Times and the group of stories is given broadly
    similar precedence. The related magazine http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/default.stm
    highlights its single main story slightly more heavily.

    So there's a pretty serious site with a lot of effort and re-work gone
    into it. Their overall banner is a worthless sacrifice to the fetishes
    of brand-marketing, their changing headings are a fairly large number
    of very similar weighting. There just isn't "one big headline" like a
    Gotcha! or a Freddy Starr Ate My Hamster.

    Now to the marquee. It does, as you suggest, try to grab attention.
    However it's also scrolling through a number of equal-weight stories,
    which frequently aren't the top-level main story. Its primary function
    is to re-use screen space. Web pages don't need single eye catchers
    to draw you to the page, you're already there. What they need is ways
    to fit a quart into a pint pot, marquee does this by time-slicing
    their screen area.
     
    Andy Dingley, May 11, 2009
    #13
  14. Ben C wrote:
    > On 2009-05-11, Jonathan N. Little <> wrote:


    >> Marquee describes a particular "look" or style where the text ticks
    >> across the screen.

    >
    > No it doesn't (any more than h1 describes a particular look or style
    > involving a large or bold font).


    It does with respect to MS when they made the element up.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms535851(VS.85).aspx
    marquee Object


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, May 11, 2009
    #14
  15. Marc Bradshaw

    Neredbojias Guest

    On 11 May 2009, Ben C <> wrote:

    > On 2009-05-11, Jonathan N. Little <> wrote:
    >> Ben C wrote:
    >>> On 2009-05-11, Adrienne Boswell <> wrote:
    >>>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Ben C <>
    >>>> writing in news::
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2009-05-11, Andy Dingley <> wrote:
    >>>>> [...]
    >>>>>> * <marquee> is purely presentational markup, no describing the
    >>>>>> structure of the content.
    >>>>> How is it any more presentational than, say, <h1> or <p>?
    >>>>>
    >>>> H1 is a heading, P is a paragraph, they are structural elements.
    >>>>
    >>>> Marquee, like B, I and U are purely presentational.
    >>>
    >>> But it's not like B, I or U. The word "marquee" does not describe
    >>> anything to do with text presentation. It means a tent, but also
    >>> the awning or canopy in front of a hotel, and by extension any kind
    >>> of banner designed to attract attention. It is similar to a heading
    >>> only grander.

    >>
    >> No, <h1> & <p> as Adrienne states have a particular function, H1 is
    >> a heading, P is a paragraph they may have different styling but
    >> their function to the document remains the same.
    >>
    >> Marquee describes a particular "look" or style where the text ticks
    >> across the screen.

    >
    > No it doesn't (any more than h1 describes a particular look or style
    > involving a large or bold font).
    >
    >> It may be a heading, but it may not. A marquee will not be a marquee
    >> if in its appearance is does not tick across like a marquee.

    >
    > Why couldn't it be surrounded by animated fireworks, for example, or
    > indicated by moving Monty-Python-style cartoon fingers?


    If you consider "marquee" similar to "banner" or "logo", there _is_ a
    structural aspect to it although not the "classical" type such as "p",
    "ul", etc. But this brings up the point wherein there can be (and
    often is) a commingling between so-called structure and presentational
    devices. As recently suggested, a heading is a heading is a heading,
    but what heading is not somehow emphasized (even if only by segregated
    placement) to indicate its status? To me, the current fad stressing
    "layout" vs. "presentation" is really a bit on the ludicrous side
    because correct implimentation of overall page markup does not rely on
    one or the other alone. Some would say a style-less page is "correct"
    if the "structural" html is valid, well-formed, and so forth, but is
    it? The answer is no, not really, and presentation itself is
    structural in a certain sense.

    --
    Neredbojias
    http://www.neredbojias.org/
    http://www.neredbojias.net/
     
    Neredbojias, May 11, 2009
    #15
  16. Marc Bradshaw

    Neredbojias Guest

    On 11 May 2009, Jim Moe <> wrote:

    > On 05/10/09 09:37 am, Marc Bradshaw wrote:
    >> A client has asked for, effectively, a <marquee> at the top of each
    >> page to draw attention to promotion of his latest offers.
    >>

    > Personally I hate marquees. If I cannot hide or disable it, I move
    > on to
    > another site. The same for blinking GIFs or other image types. And
    > Flash.
    > I have noticed a number of sites implement a marquee of some sort;
    > news
    > sites seem to do this regularly. In every case so far, the marquee
    > has disappeared within three months. The implication is that marquess
    > are hugely unpopular.


    Agreed, but should they be banned from (valid) html (or css) like
    "target" was? Personally, I think the banning of "target" from
    non-frames environments was one of the biggest of the w3c's many
    mistakes.

    --
    Neredbojias
    http://www.neredbojias.org/
    http://www.neredbojias.net/
     
    Neredbojias, May 11, 2009
    #16
  17. Marc Bradshaw

    dorayme Guest

    In article <gu9gb0$q2g$>,
    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

    > A marquee will
    > not be a marquee if in its appearance is does not tick across like a
    > marquee. In contrast a heading will still be a heading even if it does
    > not have the default "look" of being bolder, bigger, and with and
    > vertical margin...


    At least this argument is no good. Is a heading that does not look like
    a heading, sound like a heading, feel like a heading or smell like one,
    still nevertheless a heading? I don't think so!

    What is usefully to be described as presentational and what is not
    depends on how deep browsers implement cross medium representation.
    Meaning that if a blind man hears nothing at all or just "New York has
    just been blown up by North Korea" in an ordinary voice used for body
    sentences from a marquee marked up bit of text, it is fair to describe
    it as having no or little of anything semantic cross medium, a limited
    limitation.

    However, if browsers expressed marquee text in a sort of circus master
    of ceremonies voice, louder than the loudest H1, or even equally
    annoyingly repeatedly, - "...Hilary admits to not really forgiving
    Bill...Hilary admits to not really forgiving Bill...Hilary admits to not
    really forgiving Bill" - then there is some sort of justice to what Ben
    has said.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 11, 2009
    #17
  18. dorayme wrote:
    > In article <gu9gb0$q2g$>,
    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:
    >
    >> A marquee will
    >> not be a marquee if in its appearance is does not tick across like a
    >> marquee. In contrast a heading will still be a heading even if it does
    >> not have the default "look" of being bolder, bigger, and with and
    >> vertical margin...

    >
    > At least this argument is no good. Is a heading that does not look like
    > a heading, sound like a heading, feel like a heading or smell like one,
    > still nevertheless a heading? I don't think so!


    Sure. How you your define a heading? Here we have plain text:

    Widgets

    What will follow is an extended description about widgets....


    Doodads

    Also an extended amount of text describing what a doodad is. I can be
    quite lengthy comprising many sentences....

    Am I really a marquee now in plain text?

    "Widgets" and "Doodads" can clearly serve as headings in plain text with
    no definitive styling. They are structured as headings. Can you say the
    same for the marquee line? And I am defining "marquee" in the manor the
    creator, Microsoft, defines the marquee element.



    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, May 11, 2009
    #18
  19. Marc Bradshaw

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    On May 11, 4:37 pm, dorayme <> wrote:
    > In article <gu9gb0$>,
    >  "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:
    >
    > > A marquee will
    > > not be a marquee if in its appearance is does not tick across like a
    > > marquee. In contrast a heading will still be a heading even if it does
    > > not have the default "look" of being bolder, bigger, and with and
    > > vertical margin...

    >
    > At least this argument is no good. Is a heading that does not look like
    > a heading, sound like a heading, feel like a heading or smell like one,
    > still nevertheless a heading? I don't think so!
    >
    > What is usefully to be described as presentational and what is not
    > depends on how deep browsers implement cross medium representation.
    > Meaning that if a blind man hears nothing at all or just "New York has
    > just been blown up by North Korea" in an ordinary voice used for body
    > sentences from a marquee marked up bit of text, it is fair to describe
    > it as having no or little of anything semantic cross medium, a limited
    > limitation.
    >
    > However, if browsers expressed marquee text in a sort of circus master
    > of ceremonies voice, louder than the loudest H1, or even equally
    > annoyingly repeatedly, - "...Hilary admits to not really forgiving
    > Bill...Hilary admits to not really forgiving Bill...Hilary admits to not
    > really forgiving Bill" - then there is some sort of justice to what Ben
    > has said.


    I go to my bank web site quite often to check my balance, etc. I
    seldom bother to read anything else, since it seldom changes. The site
    is a rather proper plain design. However very rarely a huge marquee in
    large red letters scrolls across the page. This does get one's notice.
    You might get such a marquee concerning some problem with the site
    that people need to know about at once. Of course you could get
    attention to a message by using a temporary page to go to when you
    sign in with an auto redirect to the usual page after some selected
    time or when the user clicks a button. Or you could use bright
    flashing text, etc. to get attention.The important point is that the
    marquee or other device used be out of character with the page and
    nearly impossible to avoid. On the other hand, if one has page that is
    usually filled with marquees, flashing text, elaborate moving flash
    ads, etc., a special notice marquee might easily go unnoticed by
    repeat users of the page. In that case you might have to go to extreme
    means to attract attention to a very important special message such as
    by using a script "marquee" that allows images as well as text and
    using scrolling nudes as well as text :). A siren recording added
    also might help :) .
     
    cwdjrxyz, May 11, 2009
    #19
  20. Marc Bradshaw

    dorayme Guest

    In article <gua9au$jp0$>,
    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > In article <gu9gb0$q2g$>,
    > > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> A marquee will
    > >> not be a marquee if in its appearance is does not tick across like a
    > >> marquee. In contrast a heading will still be a heading even if it does
    > >> not have the default "look" of being bolder, bigger, and with and
    > >> vertical margin...

    > >
    > > At least this argument is no good. Is a heading that does not look like
    > > a heading, sound like a heading, feel like a heading or smell like one,
    > > still nevertheless a heading? I don't think so!

    >
    > Sure. How you your define a heading? Here we have plain text:
    >
    > Widgets
    >
    > What will follow is an extended description about widgets....
    >
    >

    Notice how your single line "Widgets" is on a single line, on its own.
    That is *not* what I call 'not looking or smelling or sounding like a
    heading'.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 12, 2009
    #20
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