Marquee For Firefox

D

dorayme

Harlan Messinger said:
A custom DTD that differs from the standard can also be useful for
enforcing in-house standards for a team of developers, so if the house
rules include "WBR is OK, FONT isn't, an explicit width and height must
be provided for all IMG tags, the TBODY must be explicit for all tables,
and any page that would go down as far as H5 is to be broken up into a
collection of smaller documents", there's a simple way to validate
documents produced by anyone on the team against these rules.

This is a very good point and brings out into stark relief one
that TI has made.

To save another post, to calm my fiery and trenchant Australian
critic over prattle indexes, I will mention that TI's spelling
analogy is a bit weaker than it need be, the sorts of things that
validators pick up are more like what I imagine would be the
sturdier parts of ideal spelling *and grammar* checkers for
normal essaying, (there being inherent difficulties in a perfect
grammar checker does not detract from there being some very firm
conservative rules).
 
D

dorayme

"Jukka K. Korpela said:
Scripsit dorayme:


All checkers that I have tested have issued misleading or completely
wrong "warnings" or "error messages" (perhaps in addition to something
useful).

Naturally, you concentrate on the negatives. The positives go
into brackets. At least with iCab and BBEdit there is no perhaps
about it, it picks up things I want picked up due to the non
perfect nature of my performance.
Closing all elements with explicit end tags is useful, but are you sure
your checkers really require that for all elements? And don't issue
misleading messages relating to empty elements?

Neither I nor many others would follow every single thing, silly
or not, that is thrown up. I use judgement as best as I am able
and have time for. This way, the dangers are much reduced.
What a checker "forces" or "invites" might be just a personal idea of
its author, and quite possibly a _bad_ idea.

In case you think a custom DTD would be better, consider that
such a thing would be made by me. I would, in my cluelessness,
add stupid things anyway. So I might as well use one that is made
by other imperfect beings and simply use some judgement as best
as I am able.
 
J

Jukka K. Korpela

Scripsit dorayme:
Naturally, you concentrate on the negatives.

Being the realistic idealist I am, naturally.
The positives go into brackets.

Yes. Well, not brackets but parentheses.

And most users of the checkers cannot tell the correct messages from the
incorrect, so what's the point? Using a validator can be confusing if
you don't understand what's going on, but at least a validator performs
a well-defined, objectively describable job, in an open manner.
In case you think a custom DTD would be better, consider that
such a thing would be made by me. I would, in my cluelessness,
add stupid things anyway.

Then you shouldn't do it. But that shouldn't prevent you from using
someone else's DTD.

Actually I once planned writing a utility that prompts for a choice of
HTML features (which elements to allow etc.) and generates a
corresponding DTD. That way, anyone could use a customized Document Type
Definition without dealing with the technicalities. But I doubt whether
people would actually use it (after all, they would need to understand
the idea of validation, which has currently been obfuscated a lot), and
surely nobody would pay me for doing it. Besides, DTDs aren't really
that expressive, so there would be a great temptation to add other
checks, and there we go...
 
B

Bone Ur

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:05:57
GMT Toby A Inkster scribed:
DOCTYPEs are not essentially pointless, as they provide a route to
validation. Validation is useful as it provides a mechanism to detect
the mark-up equivalent of a speling error.

- But validation to a user-defined "standard"? That's just peachy... If
anyone can establish a model to which he can compare the "validity" of his
page, why have standards in the first place? If it works for you, throw it
in the doctype. Great.
 
B

Bone Ur

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:04:06
GMT Toby A Inkster scribed:
Ultimately, that's what we all do.

You're not going to be arrested if you use <h1> to simply make your
text large, and not for a proper heading; but most of us would refuse
to do this -- we all decide on our internal standards of what is
acceptable markup.

Writing your own DTD is just a way of explicitly codifying those
standards so that you can check your output conforms against them in
an automated manner.

Window-dressing. I'd think it'd be preferable to see the w3c doctype call
an error so the author knows he's doing something "outside the box" when he
reviews the page 6 months later. Anyway, I said doctypes were "pointless",
not "useless". If custom doctypes float your boat, don't let me burst your
bubble. But I'm pretty sure not even 1 percent of the page-authoring
population is ever going to consider them.
 
D

dorayme

Bone Ur said:
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:05:57
GMT Toby A Inkster scribed:


- But validation to a user-defined "standard"? That's just peachy... If
anyone can establish a model to which he can compare the "validity" of his
page, why have standards in the first place? If it works for you, throw it
in the doctype. Great.

Boji, you need to distinguish a couple of things. Making a custom
dtd just to get marquee validated is like spraying perfume in an
outback dunny after the shearers have been through. But if you
look at the sort of things that TI has been mentioning and also a
rather nice example by Harlan if I may say, you might make a more
temperate assessment. I know you are not given to temperance
(except possibly in that quintessentially American teetotaller
way).

From now on, I am considering employing JK instead of Officer
White to deal with you. He is likely to be much fiercer and less
expensive. I have lost an absolute fortune paying White to beat
the crap out of you. Officer White has even been seen poncing
about in a white suit, white leather shoes and driving very
expensive cars with number plates like BOJI. It is driving me
mad! It is my money he is using.
 

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