miniJava of my dreams

Discussion in 'Java' started by pickup, Feb 10, 2005.

  1. pickup

    pickup Guest

    after spending the best part of the week struggling to install some
    thing that would run MIDI applets with accurate timing on an old
    windows95 PC (tried javasound086-jsyn-midishare-jsml
    -jdk1.5-jre1.5...) and which i could debug in an IDE (tried bluejay,
    jedit, eclipse, symantec, jgrasp....) the whole process has been a
    nightmare. eventually i got JavaSoundDemo to run (wonkily) using
    jdk1.5.0 but it takes 3 minutes to load, won't loop and feels as if
    the machine is going to have a heart attack. i still haven't got a IDE
    setup to debug this as suggested on sun's developer forum. (my old
    IDE can't deal with the new JVM.)

    anyway i had a dream just now that everything i need to write debug
    compile and run java applications should be able to fit in under 1MB.
    a miniJava for amateurs.

    here's what i need:

    java graphics api
    java midi api
    java events and basic stuff like maths, strings, etc.
    java compiler
    java debugger preferably a simple code editor (simple IDE)
    simplest possible JVM to run them on.

    i want to create simple midi applications/applets.
    if these could be made into window executables that would be a bonus

    what i don't need

    no swing - the applications will be graphical, no buttons
    no beans - i'm just making small things
    i don't care about security
    i don't care about RMI, IDL and the 100 other parts of java that i
    don't understand and will never use.

    exasperated. i just want to code simple applets. why do i need to
    install 200MB to do this.

    any suggestions would be appreciated.
    what is the minimum set of files/apps that i need?
    pickup, Feb 10, 2005
    #1
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  2. pickup

    Rhino Guest

    "pickup" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > after spending the best part of the week struggling to install some
    > thing that would run MIDI applets with accurate timing on an old
    > windows95 PC (tried javasound086-jsyn-midishare-jsml
    > -jdk1.5-jre1.5...) and which i could debug in an IDE (tried bluejay,
    > jedit, eclipse, symantec, jgrasp....) the whole process has been a
    > nightmare. eventually i got JavaSoundDemo to run (wonkily) using
    > jdk1.5.0 but it takes 3 minutes to load, won't loop and feels as if
    > the machine is going to have a heart attack. i still haven't got a IDE
    > setup to debug this as suggested on sun's developer forum. (my old
    > IDE can't deal with the new JVM.)
    >
    > anyway i had a dream just now that everything i need to write debug
    > compile and run java applications should be able to fit in under 1MB.
    > a miniJava for amateurs.
    >
    > here's what i need:
    >
    > java graphics api
    > java midi api
    > java events and basic stuff like maths, strings, etc.
    > java compiler
    > java debugger preferably a simple code editor (simple IDE)
    > simplest possible JVM to run them on.
    >
    > i want to create simple midi applications/applets.
    > if these could be made into window executables that would be a bonus
    >
    > what i don't need
    >
    > no swing - the applications will be graphical, no buttons


    How do you plan to make an application graphical without a GUI?

    > no beans - i'm just making small things
    > i don't care about security
    > i don't care about RMI, IDL and the 100 other parts of java that i
    > don't understand and will never use.
    >
    > exasperated. i just want to code simple applets. why do i need to
    > install 200MB to do this.
    >

    Java is nowhere near that big.

    > any suggestions would be appreciated.


    Get a newer PC running a recent version of Windows (or some other recent
    version of an operating system) with a generous amount of memory (512 MB
    works for me) and a decent sized hard drive (80 GB works for me)? Then you
    can install Java 1.5 on it, as well as a decent IDE and have smooth playback
    of your MIDI files, just like I do.

    You don't REALLY expect someone to construct a special version of Java just
    for the relative handful of people that are still running a Win95 machine do
    you? Why not just ask for a miniJava that will run on a Commodore 64 or an
    Apple 2+? Or your wristwatch?

    Rhino
    Rhino, Feb 10, 2005
    #2
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  3. pickup

    pickup Guest

    On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:33:08 -0500, "Rhino"
    <> wrote:


    >How do you plan to make an application graphical without a GUI?


    just by drawing everything in paint(...) including buttons.
    not pretty but it works.

    >
    >Get a newer PC running a recent version of Windows (or some other recent
    >version of an operating system) with a generous amount of memory (512 MB
    >works for me) and a decent sized hard drive (80 GB works for me)? Then you
    >can install Java 1.5 on it, as well as a decent IDE and have smooth playback
    >of your MIDI files, just like I do.
    >
    >You don't REALLY expect someone to construct a special version of Java just
    >for the relative handful of people that are still running a Win95 machine do
    >you? Why not just ask for a miniJava that will run on a Commodore 64 or an
    >Apple 2+? Or your wristwatch?
    >


    i take your point but that's a $1000 solution.
    i'm really asking people what is the easiest (and smallest) way of
    doing graphics and sound in java. i naively wish sun would create a
    version which just dealt with these things - the fun stuff!
    pickup, Feb 10, 2005
    #3
  4. pickup

    Rhino Guest

    "pickup" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:33:08 -0500, "Rhino"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >How do you plan to make an application graphical without a GUI?

    >
    > just by drawing everything in paint(...) including buttons.
    > not pretty but it works.
    >
    > >
    > >Get a newer PC running a recent version of Windows (or some other recent
    > >version of an operating system) with a generous amount of memory (512 MB
    > >works for me) and a decent sized hard drive (80 GB works for me)? Then

    you
    > >can install Java 1.5 on it, as well as a decent IDE and have smooth

    playback
    > >of your MIDI files, just like I do.
    > >
    > >You don't REALLY expect someone to construct a special version of Java

    just
    > >for the relative handful of people that are still running a Win95 machine

    do
    > >you? Why not just ask for a miniJava that will run on a Commodore 64 or

    an
    > >Apple 2+? Or your wristwatch?
    > >

    >
    > i take your point but that's a $1000 solution.
    > i'm really asking people what is the easiest (and smallest) way of
    > doing graphics and sound in java. i naively wish sun would create a
    > version which just dealt with these things - the fun stuff!
    >

    Have you looked at J2ME? This is "small footprint" Java meant to run on
    small, constrained devices like PDAs. I wrote code to play .wav files on my
    Palm PDA and it works fine. I believe that you can play MIDI and MP3 files
    on PDAs as well although I haven't done that myself.

    Of course, you'd still need a decent PC to develop on. I haven't actually
    heard of a development environment that actually runs on a PDA; the normal
    approach is to develop and test on a proper PC, then transfer the code to
    the PDA when you're finished.

    Don't hold your breath waiting for a MIDI- or sound-only version of Java,
    particularly something that will run on Win95.

    Rhino
    Rhino, Feb 11, 2005
    #4
  5. "Rhino" <> wrote in message
    news:GFOOd.4838$...
    >
    > "pickup" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > ...
    > > exasperated. i just want to code simple applets. why do i need to
    > > install 200MB to do this.
    > >

    > Java is nowhere near that big.


    JDK 1.5.0_01 is about 120MB installed, if you don't install the
    separate JRE. The docs are around 240MB. For serious
    development you'd unzip the sources, adding another 120MB.
    Larry Barowski, Feb 12, 2005
    #5
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