More help with PHP menus? 2nd level ideas. (OT to some).

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Mike Barnard, Mar 16, 2008.

  1. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    Hi again.

    [For those of you that think PHP is off topic, sorry, but this has
    been the best forum for help I have found so far and I have been
    invited to continue to discuss this subject here.]

    Bootnic offered me a simple PHP menu include which is fantastic.
    Thanks again. I have been trying to improve on it by adding a second
    level of menus. However, I am very new to PHP and I can't decide on
    which is the best methodology to do it.

    Obviously, the PHP script is only processed when the page is requested
    from the server. Therefore, in order to have a second level of menus
    show when a user hovers over a first level menu item, the browser has
    to do the work in showing it. This removes PHP itself from the agenda
    at this stage.

    Javascript would be one way I'm sure and there are loads of such
    systems available for use. But I don't trust that all browserss will
    have JS running so I wish to rely on PHP, HTML and CSS.

    The only way I can think of for a second ( or more?) level to work
    with these restrictions is for the menus for *ALL* levels to be
    created by the PHP script when the page is called, but the CSS
    properties of the unwanted lists be set such that they can't be seen.
    Maybe by absolute positioning, sending them off screen until a hover
    changes thier locations, or by setting thier colours to transparent or
    something, or maybe using Z indexs to hide them under the rest. Or
    something else?

    I do not want to reinvent the wheel. I wonder if someone can help by
    explaining the most efficient methodology, and why it is. I'm happy to
    try and create my own scripts, I do not expect it to be handed to me
    on a plate, but I do not have enough knowledge and experience to get
    the best from this without some advice. If anyone would like to take
    the time to comment (nicely!) I would really apprecieate it.

    Thanks, again.

    Mike.
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 16, 2008
    #1
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  2. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:18:43 +0000, Mike Barnard
    <> wrote:

    >Hi again.
    >
    >[For those of you that think PHP is off topic, sorry, but this has
    >been the best forum for help I have found so far and I have been
    >invited to continue to discuss this subject here.]
    >
    >Bootnic offered me a simple PHP menu include which is fantastic.
    >Thanks again. I have been trying to improve on it by adding a second
    >level of menus. However, I am very new to PHP and I can't decide on
    >which is the best methodology to do it.


    In another forum it has been sugessted that Javascript is a more
    reliable way to go. This article was pointed out to me.

    http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/tutorials/testMenu.html

    1. How many users will fail because they have no javascript allowed
    compared to those who don't have browsers modern enough to use pure
    css menus?

    2. How does this hang in with the original intention, of having a
    SINGLE menu file that gets included on the page html?

    PHP / CSS or Javascript too? What is the consensus please?
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 16, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Mike Barnard

    BootNic Guest

    Mike Barnard <> wrote in
    news::

    [snip comments on expanding menus & PHP]

    It's time for you to provide a url. If you do not have a host you may
    find a free host.

    http://www.leadhoster.com/signup.html

    The above url is one place where you may get a free host that offers php
    and no adds. Apache version 1 something and php version 4 something. It
    also has FTP access.

    Once set up you may build a mock-up of what your website may look like,
    in this case a mock-up of your menu and directory structure.

    For the newsgroups keep it bare as possible, only what is required for
    your current discussion.

    For your menu or site navigation, I think the most important part is a
    sitemap. A link to your sitemap on every page.

    Expanding menus. I suggest you not do any kind of expanding menu. What I
    suggest is that you expand your current directory, which can be done with
    php. That can be discussed more after you get a mock-up site set up, with
    a sitemap and menus in place.

    Google is your friend, you may search the newsgroups for discussion on
    the use of expanding menus.

    Regardless of what path you take with your menu, build your mock-up, in
    that way more will likely offer comments or help.

    --
    BootNic Sunday March 16, 2008 10:39 AM
    Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the
    person you're complaining about.
    *Lynn Johnston*
     
    BootNic, Mar 16, 2008
    #3
  4. Mike Barnard

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Mike Barnard wrote:
    > Hi again.
    >
    > [For those of you that think PHP is off topic, sorry, but this has
    > been the best forum for help I have found so far and I have been
    > invited to continue to discuss this subject here.]
    >
    > Bootnic offered me a simple PHP menu include which is fantastic.
    > Thanks again. I have been trying to improve on it by adding a second
    > level of menus. However, I am very new to PHP and I can't decide on
    > which is the best methodology to do it.
    >
    > Obviously, the PHP script is only processed when the page is requested
    > from the server. Therefore, in order to have a second level of menus
    > show when a user hovers over a first level menu item, the browser has
    > to do the work in showing it. This removes PHP itself from the agenda
    > at this stage.
    >
    > Javascript would be one way I'm sure and there are loads of such
    > systems available for use. But I don't trust that all browserss will
    > have JS running so I wish to rely on PHP, HTML and CSS.
    >
    > The only way I can think of for a second ( or more?) level to work
    > with these restrictions is for the menus for *ALL* levels to be
    > created by the PHP script when the page is called, but the CSS
    > properties of the unwanted lists be set such that they can't be seen.
    > Maybe by absolute positioning, sending them off screen until a hover
    > changes thier locations, or by setting thier colours to transparent or
    > something, or maybe using Z indexs to hide them under the rest. Or
    > something else?
    >


    The menu system on my site uses two levels in some parts. It is
    included into each of the 200+ pages via a server-side PHP include:

    <?php include("./styles/menu.txt"); ?>

    Go to link below and View Source to see all the menu code.

    You can also see the CSS styling of the menu in:

    http://edmullen.net/styles/default.css

    and the actual menu file at:

    http://edmullen.net/styles/menu.txt

    The system is from:

    http://www.tanfa.co.uk/css/examples/menu/tutorial-h.asp

    Not saying it's the best one but it does work.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 16, 2008
    #4
  5. Mike Barnard

    Neredbojias Guest

    On 16 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:

    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

    In either case, he'd probably be shell-shocked.

    --
    Neredbojias
    http://www.neredbojias.com/
    Great sights and sounds
     
    Neredbojias, Mar 16, 2008
    #5
  6. Mike Barnard

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Mike Barnard <> wrote:

    > Hi again.
    >
    > [For those of you that think PHP is off topic, sorry, but this has
    > been the best forum for help I have found so far and I have been
    > invited to continue to discuss this subject here.]
    >
    > Bootnic offered me a simple PHP menu include which is fantastic.
    > Thanks again. I have been trying to improve on it by adding a second
    > level of menus. However, I am very new to PHP and I can't decide on
    > which is the best methodology to do it.


    I am surprised you are so keen to race so far ahead. There are
    downsides to multi-level menus that should surely put them on the
    back-burner till you get other things well on your site.

    What have you done about your wife's hat or the logo? <g>

    What about the basics, you happy with it yet?

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 16, 2008
    #6
  7. Mike Barnard

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Neredbojias wrote:
    > On 16 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:
    >
    > Ed Mullen
    > http://edmullen.net
    > If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?
    >
    > In either case, he'd probably be shell-shocked.
    >


    And, perhaps, in the soup.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    Deja Roo: What? ANOTHER kagaroo?!!!
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 17, 2008
    #7
  8. Mike Barnard

    Neredbojias Guest

    On 16 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:

    > Neredbojias wrote:
    >> On 16 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>
    >> Ed Mullen
    >> http://edmullen.net
    >> If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?
    >>
    >> In either case, he'd probably be shell-shocked.
    >>

    >
    > And, perhaps, in the soup.


    <grin>

    --
    Neredbojias
    http://www.neredbojias.com/
    Great sights and sounds
     
    Neredbojias, Mar 17, 2008
    #8
  9. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:39:49 +0000 (UTC), BootNic
    <> wrote:

    >Mike Barnard <> wrote in
    >news::
    >
    >[snip comments on expanding menus & PHP]


    Good afternoon. (For me here in the UK.)

    >It's time for you to provide a url.


    www.thermachek.com/temp/index.php

    >Once set up you may build a mock-up of what your website may look like,
    >in this case a mock-up of your menu and directory structure.


    More than a mockup, but a lot to be filled in yet. As the PHP stuff is
    processed, it means that you cannot see the code. Therefore it is cut
    n pasted at the end of this message.

    >For your menu or site navigation, I think the most important part is a
    >sitemap. A link to your sitemap on every page.


    Its not totally defined yet. You will see from the above link that the
    'home' link is not yet styled. I want to add a second layer of menus
    to the items titled "The Law" and "Guides for...".

    >Expanding menus. I suggest you not do any kind of expanding menu. What I
    >suggest is that you expand your current directory, which can be done with
    >php. That can be discussed more after you get a mock-up site set up, with
    >a sitemap and menus in place.


    I don't understand the difference between an expanding menu and an
    expanding directory. A google search for both shows that I understand
    (and want, ideally) expanding menus but makes no sense of expanding
    directories.

    >Google is your friend,


    I spend a lot of time hand in hand with my mate Google.

    > you may search the newsgroups for discussion on
    >the use of expanding menus.


    I have done. Many thanks for you attempts to educate me. :)

    Mike.





    ***The PHP ***

    The code in the index.php file is simply an include to the menu file.
    <?php include('mainmenu.php');?>

    The mainmenu.php file itself consists of the following. It is your
    script with slight alterations and notes to myself on how it works. It
    looks MUCH tidier in my version of NoteTabPro, It has not cut n pasted
    perfectly.


    <ul id="navlist">

    <?php

    //Menu array. Builds the array and puts the page names and keys in.
    //The left item is the 'key', the right the array content.
    $menu = array
    (
    "/index.php" => "Home",
    "/law.php" => "The Law",
    "/glossary.php" => "Glossary of terms",
    "/selfassess.php" => "Guides for self assessment",
    "/hireme.php" => "Hire a professional assessor",
    "/contact.php" => "Contact me",
    "/Links.php" => "Useful links",
    "/Disclaimer.php" => "Disclaimer",
    );


    // Get the name of the current page.
    // Contains the current script's path.
    $full_path_of_page = $_SERVER["SCRIPT_NAME"];

    // For testing purposes
    echo "The variable \$full_path_of_page is holding the value of: ";
    echo $full_path_of_page;

    // Shorten it to the last forward slash and characters to its
    right, the actual file
    // name without the path.
    $current_page = strrchr($full_path_of_page,"/");

    // For testing purposes
    echo "<br>";echo "<br>";
    echo "The variable \$current_page is holding the value of: ";
    echo $current_page;

    //Build menu items
    //foreach loops over the array given by array expression [$menu]. On
    each loop, php looks at the $key element of the
    //array, takes the content of the $key and places it into $value.

    foreach ($menu as $key => $value) //Counts through the
    loop.
    {
    echo " <li>\n"; //Creates the first part
    of an HTML list item.
    if ($key === $current_page) //If the item is the
    current page then...
    {
    echo " <span>$value</span>\n"; //...just display a text with no
    anchor
    }
    else //But if the item is NOT the current page...
    {
    echo " <a href=\"$key\">$value</a>\n"; //...then display an anchor
    pointing to the page.
    }
    echo " </li>\n"; //Finish the HTML <li>
    }
    ?>
    </ul>
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 17, 2008
    #9
  10. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:44:17 -0400, Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    >Mike Barnard wrote:


    Hi Ed.

    >The menu system on my site uses two levels in some parts. It is
    >included into each of the 200+ pages via a server-side PHP include:
    >
    ><?php include("./styles/menu.txt"); ?>
    >
    >Go to link below and View Source to see all the menu code.
    >
    >You can also see the CSS styling of the menu in:
    >
    >http://edmullen.net/styles/default.css
    >
    >and the actual menu file at:
    >
    >http://edmullen.net/styles/menu.txt
    >
    >The system is from:
    >
    >http://www.tanfa.co.uk/css/examples/menu/tutorial-h.asp
    >
    >Not saying it's the best one but it does work.


    Thanks for the help. Thats the effect I'm looking for, but I didn't
    know how I could include the menu files the way you have done. It
    may *BE* the best, I wouldn't know, but as long as it works on the
    vast majority of the browsers out there who cares about it being
    'best'. Cheers.
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 17, 2008
    #10
  11. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:00:54 +1100, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Mike Barnard <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi again.
    >>
    >> [For those of you that think PHP is off topic, sorry, but this has
    >> been the best forum for help I have found so far and I have been
    >> invited to continue to discuss this subject here.]
    >>
    >> Bootnic offered me a simple PHP menu include which is fantastic.
    >> Thanks again. I have been trying to improve on it by adding a second
    >> level of menus. However, I am very new to PHP and I can't decide on
    >> which is the best methodology to do it.

    >
    >I am surprised you are so keen to race so far ahead. There are
    >downsides to multi-level menus that should surely put them on the
    >back-burner till you get other things well on your site.


    Hi again.

    Race ahead? :) This should have been finished ages ago. I spend too
    much time fiddling about and not enough working! I play Battlefield
    2142 online too. Sad at my age! :)

    >What have you done about your wife's hat or the logo? <g>


    The hat? I'm missing something here. Dr. Suess has a Cat in a Hat.
    Maybe I should re read my posts! But the logo is on its way.
    logoguru.co.uk have provided me with some stuff. The final version
    should be with me soon.

    >What about the basics, you happy with it yet?


    It's still very 'blocky'. I don't think it looks as 'professional' as
    it could, but I'm not a professional. I think it needs a few corners
    rounding off maybe? A bit more colour or maybe a *little* bit of
    movement from a flash item. The main layout is OK.

    I just have to get into my course notes and get more CONTENT in there.
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 17, 2008
    #11
  12. Mike Barnard

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Mike Barnard <> wrote:

    > On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:00:54 +1100, dorayme
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>,
    > > Mike Barnard <> wrote:


    > >> Bootnic offered me a simple PHP menu include which is fantastic.
    > >> Thanks again. I have been trying to improve on it by adding a second
    > >> level of menus. However, I am very new to PHP and I can't decide on
    > >> which is the best methodology to do it.

    > >
    > >I am surprised you are so keen to race so far ahead. There are
    > >downsides to multi-level menus that should surely put them on the
    > >back-burner till you get other things well on your site.

    >
    > Hi again.
    >
    > Race ahead? :) This should have been finished ages ago.


    Yes, race ahead of the basics. If you concentrated on them you
    might be finished by now. Leave nth level menus till the very
    last (when you might decide, nah, who needs them, lets get this
    launched and get some dough coming in). On your site I doubt
    levels in menus is going to help fatten the purse. They often
    don't work right anyway, especially if you are not very good at
    them and know all the pitfalls, and the result may be that the
    potential customer will think, is this guy going to get the
    basics right on my fire risks?

    >
    > >What have you done about your wife's hat or the logo? <g>

    >
    > The hat? I'm missing something here. Dr. Suess has a Cat in a Hat.
    > Maybe I should re read my posts!


    "Anyway, what you have at this moment (7.43 am Sydney) looks ok
    in FF, but not in Safari where the blue slides *over* the fire
    helmet(?)logo". said I once.

    and you said in reply:

    "Thats an eye that is. To be precise, my wifes right eye. Just a
    filler but an eye with flames reflected in the whites is what I
    (think I) want eventually".

    And my memory got to work on this in the meantime and it turned
    into your wife's hat. Perhaps I should offer you an apology. Or
    perhaps I should just tell you a dream I had once:

    I had a cat and I wanted a dog but my mum said the dog would eat
    the cat so no, we could not get a dog. One night I dreamed I had
    a big tabby dog. I kid you not!

    Or perhaps I should write our exchange up here as "The Martian
    that Mistook an Earthling's Wife's Eye for a Hat". (Mike, don't
    ask why, just see <http://tinyurl.com/3322ue>)

    >
    > >What about the basics, you happy with it yet?

    >
    > It's still very 'blocky'. I don't think it looks as 'professional' as
    > it could, but I'm not a professional. I think it needs a few corners
    > rounding off maybe? A bit more colour or maybe a *little* bit of
    > movement from a flash item. The main layout is OK.


    Don't worry about blocky, about round corners. I suggest there
    are priorities in these things and 2nd level menus and rounded
    corners are not them.

    Fix all the basics up, like get it to validate, get the css free
    of all mistakes, get the search input field not to overrun the
    navigation area where you have it or move it where it has more
    room. Don't be fooled into thinking that aesthetics is primarily
    about surface. With a website, it is about function as much.

    Get that picture of you off the page before messing with rounded
    corners. Get a nice picture of you and stop fooling about. Be
    like me, serious, dedicated, no nonsense.

    Don't babble.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 17, 2008
    #12
  13. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:18:39 +1100, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    > Get a nice picture of you and stop fooling about. Be
    >like me, serious, dedicated, no nonsense.
    >
    >Don't babble.


    LOL! You don't want to see me looking 'official'. It's awful!
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 17, 2008
    #13
  14. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:18:39 +1100, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    >>
    >> Race ahead? :) This should have been finished ages ago.

    >
    >Yes, race ahead of the basics. If you concentrated on them you
    >might be finished by now. Leave nth level menus till the very


    To me tha basics was to get a 'template' page in place so that I can
    change the content and fill in others. Now, I've just about got it. I
    HAVE THE MENU!

    >last (when you might decide, nah, who needs them, lets get this
    >launched and get some dough coming in). On your site I doubt


    YES YES YES! Money, slobber.

    >levels in menus is going to help fatten the purse. They often
    >don't work right anyway, especially if you are not very good at
    >them and know all the pitfalls, and the result may be that the
    >potential customer will think, is this guy going to get the
    >basics right on my fire risks?


    I understand all this. Thats why I'm trying to get it right.

    >> >What have you done about your wife's hat or the logo? <g>

    >>
    >> The hat? I'm missing something here. Dr. Suess has a Cat in a Hat.
    >> Maybe I should re read my posts!

    >
    >"Anyway, what you have at this moment (7.43 am Sydney) looks ok
    >in FF, but not in Safari where the blue slides *over* the fire
    >helmet(?)logo". said I once.


    Aha, THAT hat! I still have it somewhere. I think I'll include it
    snekily in the site somewhere like an easter egg. You'll have to find
    it.

    >Perhaps I should offer you an apology. Or


    Lord no.

    >perhaps I should just tell you a dream I had once:


    Janet hates it when I tell her about the wierd dreams I have.

    >I had a cat and I wanted a dog but my mum said the dog would eat
    >the cat so no, we could not get a dog. One night I dreamed I had
    >a big tabby dog. I kid you not!


    I believe you. I rarely remember my dreams, but when I do they're very
    wierd.

    >Or perhaps I should write our exchange up here as "The Martian
    >that Mistook an Earthling's Wife's Eye for a Hat". (Mike, don't
    >ask why, just see <http://tinyurl.com/3322ue>)


    A book by Stephen D. The lost mariner. Thats me that is! Only I
    wasn't around in WWII.

    >> >What about the basics, you happy with it yet?

    >>
    >> It's still very 'blocky'. I don't think it looks as 'professional' as
    >> it could, but I'm not a professional. I think it needs a few corners
    >> rounding off maybe? A bit more colour or maybe a *little* bit of
    >> movement from a flash item. The main layout is OK.


    >Don't worry about blocky, about round corners. I suggest there
    >are priorities in these things and 2nd level menus and rounded
    >corners are not them.


    But (Hmmm, I say that a lot!) I want to get one good looking template
    page BEFORE I start making dozens of clones of it. If I add a rounded
    corner next week I'll have to add it to dozens of pages. Maybe. Aha,
    thats where includes comes in to play! I wonder what amount of a page
    can be constructed from includes? I may be playing late into the
    night.

    >Fix all the basics up, like get it to validate, get the css free


    At the moment it does, both css and html.

    >of all mistakes, get the search input field not to overrun the
    >navigation area where you have it or move it where it has more


    It doesn't... <checks in different browsers!>... does it?

    OK in Opera.
    A bit of extra padding above the footer in IE7.
    OK in Firefox.
    Tried to download Safari. Latest beta crashes every time I try to run
    it. BUT! Now I now have a trial of desktop rabbits!

    >room. Don't be fooled into thinking that aesthetics is primarily
    >about surface. With a website, it is about function as much.


    Function is absolute, I agree.

    >Get that picture of you off the page before messing with rounded
    >corners.


    But whats wrong with it?

    >Get a nice picture of you and stop fooling about. Be
    >like me, serious, dedicated, no nonsense.


    Hmmmmm.

    >Don't babble.


    I have a new version. Well, that is to say an updated menu version.
    Wotyer think?
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 17, 2008
    #14
  15. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:44:17 -0400, Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    >You can also see the CSS styling of the menu in:
    >
    >http://edmullen.net/styles/default.css
    >
    >and the actual menu file at:
    >
    >http://edmullen.net/styles/menu.txt
    >
    >The system is from:
    >
    >http://www.tanfa.co.uk/css/examples/menu/tutorial-h.asp
    >
    >Not saying it's the best one but it does work.


    For me too! Thanks for the input. I have used this to get a basic
    menu working. I just wonder how it works in older browsers as my
    machine is up to date like that.

    www.thermachek.com/temp/

    I have looked at this way of menuing before, but it was the copying to
    each page that got to me. Now I see I can INCLUDE the menu... oh
    bliss. I can play now.

    Thanks.
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 17, 2008
    #15
  16. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:39:49 +0000 (UTC), BootNic
    <> wrote:

    I have a working menu now, thanks. Unless its broken of course. Time
    will tell.

    Thanks for your help.
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 17, 2008
    #16
  17. Mike Barnard

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Mike Barnard wrote:
    > On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:44:17 -0400, Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    >
    >> You can also see the CSS styling of the menu in:
    >>
    >> http://edmullen.net/styles/default.css
    >>
    >> and the actual menu file at:
    >>
    >> http://edmullen.net/styles/menu.txt
    >>
    >> The system is from:
    >>
    >> http://www.tanfa.co.uk/css/examples/menu/tutorial-h.asp
    >>
    >> Not saying it's the best one but it does work.

    >
    > For me too! Thanks for the input. I have used this to get a basic
    > menu working. I just wonder how it works in older browsers as my
    > machine is up to date like that.
    >
    > www.thermachek.com/temp/
    >
    > I have looked at this way of menuing before, but it was the copying to
    > each page that got to me. Now I see I can INCLUDE the menu... oh
    > bliss. I can play now.
    >
    > Thanks.
    >


    Mike, it should work fine in IE7 and all current Mozilla-based browsers.
    There is a hack to handle IE6 which is detailed on the tanfa Web site.
    I load the iehtc file via PHP include thusly:

    <?php include("./styles/iehtc.txt"); ?>

    That comes before the include statement for the menu.txt file.

    If you want to see the raw file code prior to when the PHP includes load:

    http://edmullen.net/index.html.txt

    I know it handles IE6 fine. Can't speak to IE5 and below but, frankly,
    I don't care. Yes, I know there are people out there browsing with
    ten-year-old software. Sorry, I have to draw the line somewhere.

    As for your state of bliss, well, anything I can do to help! ;-)

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    Harmony of aim, not identity of conclusion, is the secret of sympathetic
    life. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 17, 2008
    #17
  18. Mike Barnard

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Mike Barnard <> wrote:

    > On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:18:39 +1100, dorayme
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >>
    > >> Race ahead? :) This should have been finished ages ago.

    > >
    > >Yes, race ahead of the basics. If you concentrated on them you
    > >might be finished by now. Leave nth level menus till the very

    >
    > To me tha basics was to get a 'template' page in place so that I can
    > change the content and fill in others. Now, I've just about got it. I
    > HAVE THE MENU!
    >


    If you are learning how to get a page out that is respectable,
    you should be talking a simple template that works, not a fancy
    one that is very hard for you.

    <http://members.optusnet.com.au/debramcalister/alt/mikeB/firefox.p
    ng>

    <http://members.optusnet.com.au/debramcalister/alt/mikeB/andthisin
    firefoxtoo.png>

    <http://members.optusnet.com.au/debramcalister/alt/mikeB/well.png>

    Multilevel menus for a small site like yours is a waste of your
    time when there is more fundamental work to be done. Is there
    something about this that you are not understanding? (I know, you
    want a multi-level menu. You want it. I know).

    > >levels in menus is going to help fatten the purse. They often
    > >don't work right anyway, especially if you are not very good at
    > >them and know all the pitfalls, and the result may be that the
    > >potential customer will think, is this guy going to get the
    > >basics right on my fire risks?

    >
    > I understand all this. Thats why I'm trying to get it right.
    >


    You understand that they are tricky technical beasts, but not
    that they have other problems (google, look up the archives of
    this group) or that there are more important important things to
    concentrate on in your site.

    Is it ok to be frank with you?

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 17, 2008
    #18
  19. Mike Barnard

    Ed Mullen Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    >
    > Is it ok to be frank with you?


    Shouldn't you just be "dorayme" with him?

    Sorry, couldn't resist!

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    There's only two things that money can't buy and that's true love and
    home grown tomatoes. - Guy Clark
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 18, 2008
    #19
  20. Mike Barnard

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > In article <>,
    > >
    > > Is it ok to be frank with you?

    >
    > Shouldn't you just be "dorayme" with him?
    >


    No room I am afraid, I am Bob and Ted and Carol and Alice. That
    is a handful enough for any one being to be.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 18, 2008
    #20
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