more problems with target blank

Discussion in 'HTML' started by thedarkman, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. thedarkman

    thedarkman Guest

    On my main site

    http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/

    these links don't jump to wear I want them to go; the first should
    jump to note 10; the second should jump to the photo of Muhammad Ali.

    They work all right without the target_blank. C

    <a href="id_harbinger_notes.html#n10" target="_blank">

    <a href="image-gallery.html#tahagreat" target="_blank">

    regarding doc type and css; I have actually looked at this; I
    certainly don't want to use one css file to control my entire site, so
    I suppose I could put one in the header of each file, but I don't see
    the point.

    I rarely use more than 3 colours, and what would it enable me to
    remove?

    I also don't see the point of inserting DOC type in a file. After all,
    the version of HTML you use is determined solely by the code you
    write. I have no doubt they'll bring out further versions.

    As to my being a right wing loon, if you prefer plausible liberals who
    will smile to your face then lie with utter sincerity, here is Clive
    Stafford Smith

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU3Ni8dS7oE

    and here is the ugly truth brought to you by the man who prefers
    substance to style every time:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdf9Bhv6lsE
     
    thedarkman, Jan 18, 2012
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On Jan 18, 12:34 pm, thedarkman <> wrote:
    > On my main site
    >
    > http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/
    >
    > these links don't jump to wear I want them to go;

    I don't think you want to wear them, they certainly wouldn't keep you
    warm.
     
    Captain Paralytic, Jan 18, 2012
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. thedarkman

    Doug Miller Guest

    thedarkman <> wrote in news:d749f643-33f7-4d84-bb68-
    :

    > On my main site
    >
    > http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/
    >
    > these links don't jump to wear I want them to go; the first should
    > jump to note 10; the second should jump to the photo of Muhammad Ali.
    >
    > They work all right without the target_blank. C
    >
    > <a href="id_harbinger_notes.html#n10" target="_blank">
    >
    > <a href="image-gallery.html#tahagreat" target="_blank">


    The URL you gave above doesn't contain either of those links; the only hyperlinks it contains are
    these:

    <A HREF="ITMA.html">Click Here For HomePage</A>

    <A HREF="ITMA.html#HomePageIndex">Click Here For Site Index</A>

    If you would provide the correct URL, someone might be able to help you.

    >
    > regarding doc type and css; I have actually looked at this; I
    > certainly don't want to use one css file to control my entire site, so
    > I suppose I could put one in the header of each file, but I don't see
    > the point.


    CSS makes it easier to maintain a consistent look and feel to your site, and dramatically reduces
    the amount of HTML you need to write in each page to format it the way you want it. It also
    dramatically reduces the likelihood of coding errors that foul up the format, such as those which
    have so bedeviled you on your limericks page.

    The choices are not between "one CSS file to control [the] entire site" and "one in the header of
    each file". Rather, the more common practice is to use one master CSS file as a formatting template
    for the entire site -- which is referenced by URL in each individual page, rather than being
    incorporated in toto -- and making small tweaks to that in the <head> sections of the individual
    documents if and as needed.

    > I rarely use more than 3 colours, and what would it enable me to
    > remove?


    It would enable you to remove nearly all of the formatting tags that so litter your pages. This in turn
    means that your pages would load faster, but the biggest advantages are:
    a) it ensures consistency
    b) it reduces the error rate
    c) it enables changing the appearance of the entire site by altering the style sheet, in one place in
    one file, instead of changing formatting tags in multiple places in multiple files.

    Here's one specific example of what it would enable you to remove. Putting only these entries in a
    style sheet

    body {
    color: #000000;
    }
    h2 {
    text-align:center;
    color: #FF0000;
    }

    would enable you to change ALL of your second-level headings throughout a document from this

    </FONT>
    <FONT COLOR="#FF0000">
    <center><h2>Heading Text</h2></center></FONT>
    <FONT COLOR="#000000">

    to this:

    <h2>Heading Text</h2>

    If you later decide you want those headings to be blue instead of red, or the body text fuchsia
    instead of black, all you need do is to change the color: attribute in the style sheet. One change in
    one place is instantly propagated across the entirety of every document that uses that style sheet.

    > I also don't see the point of inserting DOC type in a file.


    To ensure consistent rendering of your pages from one browser to the next. With no DOCTYPE, the
    browser will render your page in quirks mode, which may or may not give the appearance you wish.
    There's a reasonably good overview here:

    http://webdesign.about.com/od/dtds/a/aa071007.htm

    Having a proper DOCTYPE definition in your web documents also means that it will be easier for
    you to find your coding errors when you validate your pages, because the error messages resulting
    from invalid HTML will not be mixed in with error messages resulting from a missing DOCTYPE.

    Please note the phrase "*proper* DOCTYPE". :)


    >After all,
    > the version of HTML you use is determined solely by the code you
    > write. I have no doubt they'll bring out further versions.


    Google "quirks mode".
     
    Doug Miller, Jan 18, 2012
    #3
  4. 2012-01-18 15:16, Doug Miller wrote:

    > If you would provide the correct URL, someone might be able to help you.


    Please don’t feed the troll. It’s not fun any more. It was somewhat
    amusing to see someone repeatedly advertise a 1996-style web site asking
    purported “questions†and consistently rejecting all advice and
    attacking it. But after the umpteenth round, it got boring.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jan 18, 2012
    #4
  5. thedarkman

    thedarkman Guest

    The problem appears to have righted itself now

    http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/id_harbinger_text.html

    I had another problem re displaying but that has sorted too.

    Amazing these machines don't obey the laws of physics.

    Thanks for the advice but I think the proof of the pudding is in the
    eating; the main thing is does the ordinary visitor see what I want
    him to see? The answer appears to be yes. This is again substance over
    style. Just for the record, what version of HTML am I using?
     
    thedarkman, Jan 18, 2012
    #5
  6. thedarkman

    Tim Streater Guest

    In article
    <>,
    thedarkman <> wrote:

    > The problem appears to have righted itself now
    >
    > http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/id_harbinger_text.html
    >
    > I had another problem re displaying but that has sorted too.
    >
    > Amazing these machines don't obey the laws of physics.
    >
    > Thanks for the advice but I think the proof of the pudding is in the
    > eating; the main thing is does the ordinary visitor see what I want
    > him to see? The answer appears to be yes. This is again substance over
    > style. Just for the record, what version of HTML am I using?


    Except that your site looks like shit. I might have been marginally
    interested in the content, but I got eyeball ache after the first couple
    of sentences, so I gave up.

    --
    Tim

    "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
     
    Tim Streater, Jan 18, 2012
    #6
  7. thedarkman wrote:

    > The problem appears to have righted itself now


    No, it is still an awful set of pages.

    > http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/id_harbinger_text.html

    ....
    > Thanks for the advice but I think the proof of the pudding is in the
    > eating; the main thing is does the ordinary visitor see what I want him
    > to see? The answer appears to be yes.


    You apparently prefer amateur-looking hard-to-read pages. I can't imagine
    anyone actually sticks around for any length of time.

    Are there any *design* schools in your neighbourhood?

    > This is again substance over
    > style. Just for the record, what version of HTML am I using?


    Something from around 1982, I'd guess.

    --
    -bts
    -Maybe your site "gets prettier at closing time."
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 18, 2012
    #7
  8. thedarkman

    idle Guest

    On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 05:59:19 -0800 (PST), thedarkman wrote in alt.html:

    > This is again substance over
    > style. Just for the record, what version of HTML am I using?


    None. You're in quirks mode.

    --
    idle
    Why do they call it an asteroid when it's outside the hemisphere, but
    call it a hemorrhoid when it's in your ass?
     
    idle, Jan 18, 2012
    #8
  9. thedarkman wrote:
    > The problem appears to have righted itself now


    Wow! The Devil gone skying! The perpetuity in thedarkman actually
    replied *in* the thread!

    >
    > http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/id_harbinger_text.html


    Must be magic, eh? Nothing to do with your markup.

    >
    > I had another problem re displaying but that has sorted too.
    >
    > Amazing these machines don't obey the laws of physics.
    >


    Must be voodoo then.

    > Thanks for the advice but I think the proof of the pudding is in the
    > eating; the main thing is does the ordinary visitor see what I want
    > him to see? The answer appears to be yes. This is again substance over
    > style.


    You are a real comedian...don't quit the day job.

    > Just for the record, what version of HTML am I using?


    None, we can safely say that it is your own unique version.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jan 18, 2012
    #9
  10. thedarkman

    thedarkman Guest


    > Except that your site looks like shit. I might have been marginally
    > interested in the content, but I got eyeball ache after the first couple
    > of sentences, so I gave up.



    My Motigo counter tells a different story; my site is largely
    educational. I will educate those who will listen. Those who don't can
    go elsewhere. Those who would attempt to stop me can go and ****
    themselves.
     
    thedarkman, Jan 18, 2012
    #10
  11. thedarkman

    thedarkman Guest


    > > Amazing these machines don't obey the laws of physics.

    >
    > Must be voodoo then.



    Back in the days when filenames were limited to 8 letters plus a 3
    letter extension, after a crash I had two or more files in the same
    directory with the same name, something they said could never happen.

    I worked out later what this was. File names could in fact contain
    more than 8 letters but anything over the 8 was hidden. I think this
    is what they call undocumented DOS.
     
    thedarkman, Jan 18, 2012
    #11
  12. thedarkman

    thedarkman Guest

    Okay, let's get this straight, I am NOT some sort of wind up merchant.
    I use a 3 colour coding for my site which is overwhelmingly text. Many
    such sites are just as prosaic, they are meant to be read, not adored.

    We have established I am not using any sort of HTML, so I presume that
    means I can omit the DOCTYPE. BARONDOCTYPE would not work, I guess. As
    I said, I don't want to use any sort of global template, but take this
    short page. Whether or not you like the poem, the puns or neither, it
    displays well. It's only with a really long page in Firefox or some
    other minor browser that trouble develops.

    Without a global template, how can this code be improved? Probably in
    a lot of ways in your universe, but how can the display be improved?
    If you are content with 3 colours, I would suggest no way.

    <HTML><HEAD>
    <TITLE>ODE FROM THE FRIESIAN CHURN: a poem by Alexander Baron</TITLE>
    </HEAD>

    <FONT COLOR=#FF0000>
    <H1><i>Ode From The Friesian Churn</i></H1>
    <FONT COLOR=#000000>
    <b>
    <p>My darling Buttercup, how fine though art,
    <br>Your beauty so refined, your charm so rare,
    <br>For though you're not renowned for being smart,
    <br>In all Creation none can match your stare.

    <p>You stand entranced in yonder clover field
    <br>And gaze magnetically; I feel your pull,
    <br>I try to draw away but I must yield
    <br>And creep towards you, spellbound, like a bull.

    <p>Your nose is big and black and always wet,
    <br>Your grace reflects in every moo-ve you make,
    <br>I always feel a morsel of regret
    <br>And think of you when I eat beef, Miss Steak.

    <p>The farmer treats you awfully, my pet,
    <br>You're outside in most every kind of weather,
    <br>But not to worry, I'll ask my Aunt Bet
    <br>To knit a jersey to protect your leather.

    <p>You'll wear that, but you'll never wear my ring
    <br>Because we're worlds apart, but I'll be true,
    <br>I'll never even think of marrying,
    <br>And never have no udder love but moo.
    <p>
    [This was written for a punning competition. Sadly the judges didn't
    like it as much as I did].

    <p>
    <A HREF="poetry.html"> Back To Poetry Index</A>
    <p>
    </HTML>
     
    thedarkman, Jan 18, 2012
    #12
  13. thedarkman

    Tim Streater Guest

    In article
    <>,
    thedarkman <> wrote:

    > > > Amazing these machines don't obey the laws of physics.

    > >
    > > Must be voodoo then.


    > Back in the days when filenames were limited to 8 letters plus a 3
    > letter extension, after a crash I had two or more files in the same
    > directory with the same name, something they said could never happen.
    >
    > I worked out later what this was. File names could in fact contain
    > more than 8 letters but anything over the 8 was hidden. I think this
    > is what they call undocumented DOS.


    Are you a loony or what? Filenames have never been limited to 8 chars
    except on one or two crap joke operating systems that by and large I've
    managed to avoid.

    --
    Tim

    "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
     
    Tim Streater, Jan 18, 2012
    #13
  14. thedarkman

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    thedarkman <> wrote:

    > We have established I am not using any sort of HTML, so I presume that
    > means I can omit the DOCTYPE. ...
    >


    ....

    > This was written for a punning competition.
    > Sadly the judges didn't like it as much as I did


    You *are* using HTML. Your poem below shows great sensitivity and you
    should console yourself with the thought that the judges rejected it
    on a mere technicality - like that it is not really very punny.

    ....

    > <HTML><HEAD>
    > <TITLE>ODE FROM THE FRIESIAN CHURN: a poem by Alexander Baron</TITLE>
    > </HEAD>
    >
    > <FONT COLOR=#FF0000>
    > <H1><i>Ode From The Friesian Churn</i></H1>
    > <FONT COLOR=#000000>
    > <b>
    > <p>My darling Buttercup, how fine though art,
    > <br>Your beauty so refined, your charm so rare,
    > <br>For though you're not renowned for being smart,
    > <br>In all Creation none can match your stare.
    >

    ....

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jan 18, 2012
    #14
  15. thedarkman

    Tim Streater Guest

    In article
    <>,
    thedarkman <> wrote:

    > Okay, let's get this straight, I am NOT some sort of wind up merchant.
    > I use a 3 colour coding for my site which is overwhelmingly text. Many
    > such sites are just as prosaic, they are meant to be read, not adored.


    That may be true but it's no excuse for presenting your stuff in a way
    that gives people headaches.

    > We have established I am not using any sort of HTML, so I presume that
    > means I can omit the DOCTYPE.


    No, we've established that you are using html in quirks mode, which
    means you have no guarantees as to how it will look. It will vary from
    browser to browser.

    If you use the trivial doctype:

    <!DOCTYPE html>

    then you can at a minimum ensure that it'll look the same on all
    browsers.

    --
    Tim

    "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
     
    Tim Streater, Jan 18, 2012
    #15
  16. thedarkman wrote:
    > Okay, let's get this straight, I am NOT some sort of wind up merchant.
    > I use a 3 colour coding for my site which is overwhelmingly text. Many
    > such sites are just as prosaic, they are meant to be read, not adored.
    >
    > We have established I am not using any sort of HTML, so I presume that
    > means I can omit the DOCTYPE.


    Apparently we have all been too subtle for you. Your coding is so broken
    that is does not conform to any version, you you feel breaking it
    further by omitting a DOCTYPE is a solution?

    > BARONDOCTYPE would not work, I guess. As
    > I said, I don't want to use any sort of global template, but take this
    > short page. Whether or not you like the poem, the puns or neither, it
    > displays well. It's only with a really long page in Firefox or some
    > other minor browser that trouble develops.



    No the correct answer is to fix your mistakes and make your markup more
    valid, not break it more.

    >
    > Without a global template, how can this code be improved? Probably in
    > a lot of ways in your universe, but how can the display be improved?
    > If you are content with 3 colours, I would suggest no way.



    What is your aversion to a global "template" (external css file)? Afraid
    is might actually fix your site and make it easier to maintain?

    From all your posting it looks like you prefer to have all your poem
    titles in red and italic, and you love to center everything. So instead
    of peppering every page over and over with FONT, CENTER & I, & B
    elements you could add just 1 line in each page's HEAD element

    <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="poems.css">

    and create a text file "poems.css":
    /* start of stylesheet */
    h1 { color: #ff0000; font-style: italic; text-align: center; }
    p { color: #000000; font-weight: bold; text-align: center; }
    /* end of stylesheet */

    Now you have been told repeatedly that you are NOT closing elements that
    REQUIRE closing tags like the FONT & B elements below:

    >
    > <HTML><HEAD>
    > <TITLE>ODE FROM THE FRIESIAN CHURN: a poem by Alexander Baron</TITLE>
    > </HEAD>
    >
    > <FONT COLOR=#FF0000>
    > <H1><i>Ode From The Friesian Churn</i></H1>
    > <FONT COLOR=#000000>
    > <b>
    > <p>My darling Buttercup, how fine though art,
    > <br>Your beauty so refined, your charm so rare,
    > <br>For though you're not renowned for being smart,
    > <br>In all Creation none can match your stare.
    >
    > <p>You stand entranced in yonder clover field
    > <br>And gaze magnetically; I feel your pull,
    > <br>I try to draw away but I must yield
    > <br>And creep towards you, spellbound, like a bull.
    >
    > <p>Your nose is big and black and always wet,
    > <br>Your grace reflects in every moo-ve you make,
    > <br>I always feel a morsel of regret
    > <br>And think of you when I eat beef, Miss Steak.
    >
    > <p>The farmer treats you awfully, my pet,
    > <br>You're outside in most every kind of weather,
    > <br>But not to worry, I'll ask my Aunt Bet
    > <br>To knit a jersey to protect your leather.
    >
    > <p>You'll wear that, but you'll never wear my ring
    > <br>Because we're worlds apart, but I'll be true,
    > <br>I'll never even think of marrying,
    > <br>And never have no udder love but moo.
    > <p>
    > [This was written for a punning competition. Sadly the judges didn't
    > like it as much as I did].
    >
    > <p>
    > <A HREF="poetry.html"> Back To Poetry Index</A>
    > <p>
    > </HTML>



    Now with the above stylesheet you would get DEPENDABLY what you wish:

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
    <html>
    <head>
    <title>ODE FROM THE FRIESIAN CHURN: a poem by Alexander Baron</title>
    <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="poems.css">
    </head>
    <body>
    <h1>Ode From The Friesian Churn<h1>

    <p>
    My darling Buttercup, how fine though art,<br>
    Your beauty so refined, your charm so rare,<br>
    For though you're not renowned for being smart,<br>
    In all Creation none can match your stare.
    </p>

    <p>
    You stand entranced in yonder clover field<br>
    And gaze magnetically; I feel your pull,<br>
    I try to draw away but I must yield<br>
    And creep towards you, spellbound, like a bull.
    </p>

    <p>
    Your nose is big and black and always wet,<br>
    Your grace reflects in every moo-ve you make,<br>
    I always feel a morsel of regret<br>
    And think of you when I eat beef, Miss Steak.
    </p>

    <p>
    The farmer treats you awfully, my pet,<br>
    You're outside in most every kind of weather,<br>
    But not to worry, I'll ask my Aunt Bet<br>
    To knit a jersey to protect your leather.
    </p>

    <p>
    You'll wear that, but you'll never wear my ring<br>
    Because we're worlds apart, but I'll be true,<br>
    I'll never even think of marrying,<br>
    And never have no udder love but moo.
    </p>

    <p>

    [This was written for a punning competition. Sadly the judges didn't
    like it as much as I did].
    </p>

    <div><a href="poetry.html"> Back To Poetry Index</a></div>

    </body>
    </html>


    If you later decided you did not what those poem titles in italic but
    maybe in small caps and blue not red than all you would have to do it
    change ONE file, the stylesheet "poem.css"

    /* start of stylesheet */
    h1 { color: #0000ff; font-variant: small-caps; text-align: center; }
    p { color: #000000; font-weight: bold; text-align: center; }
    /* end of stylesheet */

    That is it, just one file and ALL your poems on all your pages will now
    have blue small caps titles without having to change each and every
    document. For poems I might suggest where layout is so important with
    spacing like this

    A line to the left
    but the next offset
    maybe a bit here
    and here

    That you could just make your pages preserve the special spacing like
    this:

    <p class="freeform">
    A line to the left
    but the next offset
    maybe a bit here
    and here
    </p>

    and an one-liner in your stylesheet:

    p.freeform { white-space: pre; }

    Now if you cannot see the advantage then I would suggest that you should
    go away, that you are either incapable or unwilling to do web design and
    no one will be able to help you here.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jan 18, 2012
    #16
  17. thedarkman wrote:
    >
    >>> Amazing these machines don't obey the laws of physics.

    >>
    >> Must be voodoo then.

    >
    >
    > Back in the days when filenames were limited to 8 letters plus a 3
    > letter extension, after a crash I had two or more files in the same
    > directory with the same name, something they said could never happen.
    >
    > I worked out later what this was. File names could in fact contain
    > more than 8 letters but anything over the 8 was hidden. I think this
    > is what they call undocumented DOS.


    When? Which version? Not in DOS. What you could do is make a file name
    with a character ASCII number > 126 that Windows could not deal with.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jan 18, 2012
    #17
  18. thedarkman

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Tim Streater <> wrote:

    > If you use the trivial doctype:
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE html>
    >
    > then you can at a minimum ensure that it'll look the same on all
    > browsers.


    Not quite at a minimum, but you are right that it improves your
    chances.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jan 18, 2012
    #18
  19. 2012-01-18 22:30, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

    > Your coding is so broken
    > that is does not conform to any version, you you feel breaking it
    > further by omitting a DOCTYPE is a solution?


    I suppose, and surely hope, that nobody reads this troll-driven thread
    seriously and trying to learn. But just in case...

    If someone has been writing crappy HTML code that (knowingly or
    unknowingly) relies on crappy behavior of old browsers, then *adding* a
    conforming DOCTYPE is the thing that would likely break the pages. It
    would make browsers run in "standards mode", which is bad if they have
    been written for broken mode ("quirks mode").

    I have seen pages become literally empty just because a proper DOCTYPE
    was added.

    The morale is that you should not use proper DOCTYPE if your markup is
    not proper.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jan 18, 2012
    #19
  20. thedarkman

    P E Schoen Guest

    "Jonathan N. Little" wrote in message news:jf7a53$8a4$...

    [huge snip]

    > Now if you cannot see the advantage then I would suggest that you
    > should go away, that you are either incapable or unwilling to do web
    > design and no one will be able to help you here.


    I am amazed that people here still continue to respond and try to help "the
    darkman". Maybe some perverse curiosity about his latest attempts to
    circumvent even the most reasonable conventions of HTML and still complain
    about erratic problems? I am also not really up to speed on CSS, but I
    realize its power and I use it where I need to. I have some HTML dating back
    to 1996 when I was a total newbie, and some of it (maybe most) would not
    pass the validator. But for anything I care about (and darkman does seem to
    care, at least about himself and his website), I will make the effort to
    determine if it passes validation and at least understand why some lines may
    not be according to standard, and I may choose to ignore them if they are
    not critical. But if there were problems I would certainly fix them so as to
    make it validate before I wasted peoples' time with badly broken code, and
    ignore or demean their efforts to help.

    He certainly gets a lot of attention. Maybe THAT is the issue! This may be
    his entire social life!

    Paul
    www.muttleydog.com
     
    P E Schoen, Jan 18, 2012
    #20
    1. Advertising

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