Mouse trailing text problem, Javascript

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Bill, Apr 21, 2006.

  1. Bill

    Bill Guest

    I'm using code from http://www.hypergurl.com/trailingtext.html to make a
    small mouse tail with some text. When I originally designed my page using
    tables to format it the code worked perfectly. I've recently been
    redesigning the page to use only css to format so I can keep all of the
    non-content stuff out of the main html code but I've run into a problem.
    Before if you scrolled down the page the text kept up with the mouse, being
    just behind it, now with the tables gone if I scroll down the text gets
    offset above the cursor the amount that I've scrolled the screen. It does
    the same if I scroll horizontally by putting the text ahead of the cursor
    the same amount I've scrolled left. I'm not that conversant with
    JavaScript, but I'm trying, so could someone either tell me what is the
    likely problem or at least point me in the right direction so I can figure
    it out myself? I've emailed the author of the original code but so far no
    response so I'm hoping I can get some enlightenment here.

    Thanks in advance.

    Bill

    P.S. I've done some digging into the script and it looks like it is taking
    the offset for the viewport into consideration but I'm not seeing it on the
    screen. I'm really at an impasse here!
    Bill, Apr 21, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Bill wrote:
    > I'm using code from http://www.hypergurl.com/trailingtext.html to make a
    > small mouse tail with some text. When I originally designed my page using
    > tables to format it the code worked perfectly. I've recently been
    > redesigning the page to use only css to format so I can keep all of the
    > non-content stuff out of the main html code but I've run into a problem.
    > Before if you scrolled down the page the text kept up with the mouse, being
    > just behind it, now with the tables gone if I scroll down the text gets
    > offset above the cursor the amount that I've scrolled the screen. It does
    > the same if I scroll horizontally by putting the text ahead of the cursor
    > the same amount I've scrolled left. I'm not that conversant with
    > JavaScript, but I'm trying, so could someone either tell me what is the
    > likely problem or at least point me in the right direction so I can figure
    > it out myself? I've emailed the author of the original code but so far no
    > response so I'm hoping I can get some enlightenment here.
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > Bill
    >
    > P.S. I've done some digging into the script and it looks like it is taking
    > the offset for the viewport into consideration but I'm not seeing it on the
    > screen. I'm really at an impasse here!
    >


    You have not checked this is any other browser than IE have you (or
    possibly an ancient version Netscape)?


    Error: event is not defined
    Source File: http://www.hypergurl.com/trailingtext.html
    Line: 102

    function handlerMM(e){
    x = (document.layers) ? e.pageX : document.body.scrollLeft+event.clientX
    y = (document.layers) ? e.pageY : document.body.scrollTop+event.clientY
    flag=1
    }

    This code is also ancient and I bet will fail is ALL moder web browsers...

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Apr 21, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Funny you should mention different browsers. I'm just now going through and
    testing on different browsers and low and behold the code works perfectly on
    Opera 8.54. So far the code doesn't work in IE 6, Netscape 8.1 or Mozilla
    Firefox 1.5. Can you point me at something newer that will produce the same
    effect? I originally did not like the effect on the source page but
    changing the message to a 5 letter one gives a nice visual I'd like to keep.

    Bill


    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    news:4448d76f$0$3689$...
    > Bill wrote:
    > > I'm using code from http://www.hypergurl.com/trailingtext.html to make a
    > > small mouse tail with some text. When I originally designed my page

    using
    > > tables to format it the code worked perfectly. I've recently been
    > > redesigning the page to use only css to format so I can keep all of the
    > > non-content stuff out of the main html code but I've run into a problem.
    > > Before if you scrolled down the page the text kept up with the mouse,

    being
    > > just behind it, now with the tables gone if I scroll down the text gets
    > > offset above the cursor the amount that I've scrolled the screen. It

    does
    > > the same if I scroll horizontally by putting the text ahead of the

    cursor
    > > the same amount I've scrolled left. I'm not that conversant with
    > > JavaScript, but I'm trying, so could someone either tell me what is the
    > > likely problem or at least point me in the right direction so I can

    figure
    > > it out myself? I've emailed the author of the original code but so far

    no
    > > response so I'm hoping I can get some enlightenment here.
    > >
    > > Thanks in advance.
    > >
    > > Bill
    > >
    > > P.S. I've done some digging into the script and it looks like it is

    taking
    > > the offset for the viewport into consideration but I'm not seeing it on

    the
    > > screen. I'm really at an impasse here!
    > >

    >
    > You have not checked this is any other browser than IE have you (or
    > possibly an ancient version Netscape)?
    >
    >
    > Error: event is not defined
    > Source File: http://www.hypergurl.com/trailingtext.html
    > Line: 102
    >
    > function handlerMM(e){
    > x = (document.layers) ? e.pageX : document.body.scrollLeft+event.clientX
    > y = (document.layers) ? e.pageY : document.body.scrollTop+event.clientY
    > flag=1
    > }
    >
    > This code is also ancient and I bet will fail is ALL moder web browsers...
    >
    > --
    > Take care,
    >
    > Jonathan
    > -------------------
    > LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    > http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Bill, Apr 21, 2006
    #3
  4. Bill wrote:
    > Funny you should mention different browsers. I'm just now going through and
    > testing on different browsers and low and behold the code works perfectly on
    > Opera 8.54. So far the code doesn't work in IE 6, Netscape 8.1 or Mozilla
    > Firefox 1.5. Can you point me at something newer that will produce the same
    > effect? I originally did not like the effect on the source page but
    > changing the message to a 5 letter one gives a nice visual I'd like to keep.


    Please don't top post.

    Answer to your question, not offhand but personally I find such
    'effects' annoying in real short order. I can give you a hint in your
    search, if you do not see 'document.getElementById' in the script then
    skip it because it is an old 4x browser script.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Apr 21, 2006
    #4
  5. Bill

    Bill Guest

    <rant>
    I know I'm going to regret this and may loose any help but I get tired of
    self styled net etiquette cops who just have to feel superior to someone by
    using the 'don't top post' blurb. Guess what, it's an individual decision
    which I've consciously made. I've followed many a news group thread where
    you have to scroll down to the bottom of a 3 or 4 screen length post just
    to read a "Me too" addition. Please don't respond with that tired old "This
    is how it has always been done since the dawn of Usenet" sound bite, it was
    old 10 years ago and now it's getting so long in the tooth it should be put
    out of its misery. If I read a post that is bottom posted or, God forbid,
    mixed in with the original post I don't complain to the poster, I adapt.
    I've seen some real doozies with the inline postings too, no snipping and
    one word answers inserted in a 3 page post, gack, talk about playing spot
    the reply. All in all there are three "Standards" in posting, top, inline
    and bottom, pick one and move on with your life but don't take it on
    yourself to "force" your preferences on others.
    </rant>

    Now just to be fair minded scroll down for my original reply to this post.

    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    news:4448e93e$0$3690$...
    > Bill wrote:
    > > Funny you should mention different browsers. I'm just now going through

    and
    > > testing on different browsers and low and behold the code works

    perfectly on
    > > Opera 8.54. So far the code doesn't work in IE 6, Netscape 8.1 or

    Mozilla
    > > Firefox 1.5. Can you point me at something newer that will produce the

    same
    > > effect? I originally did not like the effect on the source page but
    > > changing the message to a 5 letter one gives a nice visual I'd like to

    keep.
    >
    > Please don't top post.
    >
    > Answer to your question, not offhand but personally I find such
    > 'effects' annoying in real short order. I can give you a hint in your
    > search, if you do not see 'document.getElementById' in the script then
    > skip it because it is an old 4x browser script.
    >
    > --
    > Take care,
    >
    > Jonathan
    > -------------------
    > LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    > http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com



    Thanks for the heads up, I never realized that the code was probably for an
    older browser. Could I use the 'document.getElementById' somewhere to
    supply the correct coords or will this take a complete rewrite to get it up
    to the newer browsers?

    Bill
    Bill, Apr 21, 2006
    #5
  6. Bill

    optimistx Guest

    You have a refreshing bold opinion :), thanks.

    And of course, there is an alternative top- AND bottompost, like this. Doing
    so, are we enemies of everyone, friends of everyone, or ...

    A rfc of some basic politeness should be designed here. People giving
    instructions to computers start behaving like computers to each other,
    giving orders, commands.

    "Bill" <> kirjoitti viestissä
    news:...
    > <rant>
    > I know I'm going to regret this and may loose any help but I get tired of
    > self styled net etiquette cops who just have to feel superior to someone

    by
    > using the 'don't top post' blurb. Guess what, it's an individual decision
    > which I've consciously made. I've followed many a news group thread where
    > you have to scroll down to the bottom of a 3 or 4 screen length post just
    > to read a "Me too" addition. Please don't respond with that tired old

    "This
    > is how it has always been done since the dawn of Usenet" sound bite, it

    was
    > old 10 years ago and now it's getting so long in the tooth it should be

    put
    > out of its misery. If I read a post that is bottom posted or, God forbid,
    > mixed in with the original post I don't complain to the poster, I adapt.
    > I've seen some real doozies with the inline postings too, no snipping and
    > one word answers inserted in a 3 page post, gack, talk about playing spot
    > the reply. All in all there are three "Standards" in posting, top, inline
    > and bottom, pick one and move on with your life but don't take it on
    > yourself to "force" your preferences on others.
    > </rant>
    >
    > Now just to be fair minded scroll down for my original reply to this post.
    >
    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    > news:4448e93e$0$3690$...
    > > Bill wrote:
    > > > Funny you should mention different browsers. I'm just now going

    through
    > and
    > > > testing on different browsers and low and behold the code works

    > perfectly on
    > > > Opera 8.54. So far the code doesn't work in IE 6, Netscape 8.1 or

    > Mozilla
    > > > Firefox 1.5. Can you point me at something newer that will produce

    the
    > same
    > > > effect? I originally did not like the effect on the source page but
    > > > changing the message to a 5 letter one gives a nice visual I'd like to

    > keep.
    > >
    > > Please don't top post.
    > >
    > > Answer to your question, not offhand but personally I find such
    > > 'effects' annoying in real short order. I can give you a hint in your
    > > search, if you do not see 'document.getElementById' in the script then
    > > skip it because it is an old 4x browser script.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Take care,
    > >
    > > Jonathan
    > > -------------------
    > > LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    > > http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

    >
    >
    > Thanks for the heads up, I never realized that the code was probably for

    an
    > older browser. Could I use the 'document.getElementById' somewhere to
    > supply the correct coords or will this take a complete rewrite to get it

    up
    > to the newer browsers?
    >
    > Bill
    >
    >

    (For lovers of bottomposting:)

    You have a refreshing bold opinion :), thanks.

    And of course, there is an alternative top- AND bottompost, like this. Doing
    so, are we enemies of everyone, friends of everyone, or ...

    A rfc of some basic politeness should be designed here. People giving
    instructions to computers start behaving like computers to each other,
    giving orders, commands.
    optimistx, Apr 21, 2006
    #6
  7. Bill

    Andy Dingley Guest

    Andy Dingley, Apr 21, 2006
    #7
  8. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Don't What? Use that code or use that effect?
    I really like it with a short word message, 5 letters, and I'd like to
    continue using something that at least resembles it on the new web page.

    Bill


    "Andy Dingley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Bill wrote:
    > > I'm using code from http://www.hypergurl.com/trailingtext.html to make a
    > > small mouse tail with some text.

    >
    > Don't.
    >
    Bill, Apr 21, 2006
    #8
  9. Bill wrote:
    > <rant>
    > I know I'm going to regret this and may loose any help but I get tired of
    > self styled net etiquette cops who just have to feel superior to someone by
    > using the 'don't top post' blurb. Guess what, it's an individual decision
    > which I've consciously made. I've followed many a news group thread where
    > you have to scroll down to the bottom of a 3 or 4 screen length post just
    > to read a "Me too" addition.


    Well that practice is incorrect was well Bill, that is a sign that
    someone does not know how to trim. If people quoted and trimmed
    correctly we would all find it easier to maintain the illegibly of
    conversation.

    Yes, a 'conversation'. That is what usenet is and if I had top-posted
    this remark it could be unclear as to what I am referring to.

    > Please don't respond with that tired old "This
    > is how it has always been done since the dawn of Usenet" sound bite, it was
    > old 10 years ago and now it's getting so long in the tooth it should be put
    > out of its misery.


    None the less the validity still holds. The continuity especially as the
    thread gets more complicated gets hard to maintain with top posting.

    > If I read a post that is bottom posted or, God forbid,
    > mixed in with the original post I don't complain to the poster, I adapt.
    > I've seen some real doozies with the inline postings too, no snipping and
    > one word answers inserted in a 3 page post, gack, talk about playing spot
    > the reply. All in all there are three "Standards" in posting, top, inline
    > and bottom,


    When you bottom post you should be snipping out all but the points that
    you are referring to, else inline would be preferred so that you may
    directly respond to the points at hand. Trust me, it can get quite
    confusing as a thread develops and the 'rules' here are not arbitrary
    but are requested in order to maintain clarity, which can be challenging
    in a written media.

    pick one and move on with your life but don't take it on
    > yourself to "force" your preferences on others.
    > </rant>
    >
    > Now just to be fair minded scroll down for my original reply to this post.
    >
    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    > news:4448e93e$0$3690$...
    >> Bill wrote:
    >>> Funny you should mention different browsers. I'm just now going through

    > and
    >>> testing on different browsers and low and behold the code works

    > perfectly on
    >>> Opera 8.54. So far the code doesn't work in IE 6, Netscape 8.1 or

    > Mozilla
    >>> Firefox 1.5. Can you point me at something newer that will produce the

    > same
    >>> effect? I originally did not like the effect on the source page but
    >>> changing the message to a 5 letter one gives a nice visual I'd like to

    > keep.
    >> Please don't top post.
    >>
    >> Answer to your question, not offhand but personally I find such
    >> 'effects' annoying in real short order. I can give you a hint in your
    >> search, if you do not see 'document.getElementById' in the script then
    >> skip it because it is an old 4x browser script.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Take care,
    >>
    >> Jonathan
    >> -------------------
    >> LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    >> http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com


    Lastly at the risk of offending you further, OE is notably bad at
    following standard protocol with respect to quoting and newsgroups,

    http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

    but signatures should be removed from the quoted material. Just adds
    more 'noise' (and more that you have to scroll past). My signature is
    correctly formatted with the [hyphen][hyphen][space][carriage return]
    sequence and properly configured newsreaders will snip it for you
    automatically.

    So if you added the [hyphen][hyphen][space][carriage return] to your
    signature, I and others would not have to manually snip your signature.
    >
    > Bill
    >


    Now with the rant out of the way, to your question.

    > Thanks for the heads up, I never realized that the code was probably for an
    > older browser. Could I use the 'document.getElementById' somewhere to
    > supply the correct coords or will this take a complete rewrite to get it up
    > to the newer browsers?


    I am afraid your script would require an extensive rewrite. the DOM
    (Document Object Model) has radically changed from 4x browser to the
    modern browsers. If all ( cough!--MS--cough! ) would cooperate and
    follow the standards then our jobs would be markedly easier and browser
    sniffing would be thankfully unnecessary.

    document.getElementById just get reference to a specific element on the
    page, mouse coordinate on the page is another issue.

    http://www.quirksmode.org/js/events_properties.html
    Javascript - Event properties

    My advise is focus on your website's content and not so much on 'special
    effects'. Like the screaming popup stats banners on Fox Sports
    broadcasts it *gets old* really fast!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Apr 21, 2006
    #9
  10. Bill wrote:
    > "Andy Dingley" <> wrote:
    >> Bill wrote:
    >>> I'm using code from http://www.hypergurl.com/trailingtext.html to make a
    >>> small mouse tail with some text.

    >> Don't.


    > Don't What? Use that code or use that effect?
    > I really like it with a short word message, 5 letters, and I'd like to
    > continue using something that at least resembles it on the new web page.


    I believe he means for the very reasons that I mention in my posts.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Apr 21, 2006
    #10
  11. Bill

    Guest

    Bill wrote:
    > > > I'm using code from http://www.hypergurl.com/trailingtext.html to make a
    > > > small mouse tail with some text.


    > > Don't.


    > Don't What? Use that code or use that effect?


    Either. Both. Anything resembling mouse tails. Anything at all that
    involves hooking JavaScript into the user's browser with
    millisecond-frequent polling.
    , Apr 21, 2006
    #11
  12. Bill

    Bud Guest

    On Bill wrote:
    ><rant>
    > I know I'm going to regret this and may loose any help but I get tired of
    > self styled net etiquette cops who just have to feel superior to someone by
    > using the 'don't top post' blurb. Guess what, it's an individual decision
    > which I've consciously made. I've followed many a news group thread where
    > you have to scroll down to the bottom of a 3 or 4 screen length post just
    > to read a "Me too" addition.
    >
    > Bill


    Then if you don't want to press the space bar, learn how to use the tools of
    your Usenet reader, as bad as MS is.

    --
    For the outdoor type:
    http://idahoptv.org/outdoors/shows/centennialtrail/
    Bud, Apr 21, 2006
    #12
  13. Bill

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, "optimistx"
    <> vouchsafed:

    > You have a refreshing bold opinion :), thanks.


    I found it stale and mundane, myself. You're welcome.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
    Neredbojias, Apr 21, 2006
    #13
  14. Bill

    Randy Webb Guest

    Jonathan N. Little said the following on 4/21/2006 12:16 PM:
    > Bill wrote:


    <snip>

    >> Thanks for the heads up, I never realized that the code was probably
    >> for an
    >> older browser. Could I use the 'document.getElementById' somewhere to
    >> supply the correct coords or will this take a complete rewrite to get
    >> it up
    >> to the newer browsers?

    >
    > I am afraid your script would require an extensive rewrite. the DOM
    > (Document Object Model) has radically changed from 4x browser to the
    > modern browsers. If all ( cough!--MS--cough! ) would cooperate and
    > follow the standards then our jobs would be markedly easier and browser
    > sniffing would be thankfully unnecessary.


    MS does follow standards, it is just MS standards they follow. But,
    "browser sniffing" is *never* necessary.

    > document.getElementById just get reference to a specific element on the
    > page, mouse coordinate on the page is another issue.
    >
    > http://www.quirksmode.org/js/events_properties.html
    > Javascript - Event properties
    >
    > My advise is focus on your website's content and not so much on 'special
    > effects'. Like the screaming popup stats banners on Fox Sports
    > broadcasts it *gets old* really fast!


    Amen.


    --
    Randy
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
    Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
    Randy Webb, Apr 21, 2006
    #14
  15. Bill

    Gufus Guest

    Hi Jonathan,

    Friday April 21 2006, Jonathan N. Little writes to Bill:

    > So if you added the [hyphen][hyphen][space][carriage return]
    > to your signature, I and others would not have to manually
    > snip your signature.


    Boy... do I ever remember this conversation.

    --
    K Klement


    .... A half moon is better than no moon at all.
    Gufus, Apr 22, 2006
    #15
  16. Gufus wrote:
    > Hi Jonathan,
    >
    > Friday April 21 2006, Jonathan N. Little writes to Bill:
    >
    > > So if you added the [hyphen][hyphen][space][carriage return]
    > > to your signature, I and others would not have to manually
    > > snip your signature.

    >
    > Boy... do I ever remember this conversation.
    >


    Amazes me how difficult a concept it can be for some.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Apr 22, 2006
    #16
  17. Bill

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Toby Inkster, Apr 22, 2006
    #17
  18. Bill

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Bill wrote:
    > I'm using code from http://www.hypergurl.com/trailingtext.html to make a
    > small mouse tail with some text. When I originally designed my page using
    > tables to format it the code worked perfectly. I've recently been
    > redesigning the page to use only css to format so I can keep all of the
    > non-content stuff out of the main html code but I've run into a problem.
    > Before if you scrolled down the page the text kept up with the mouse, being
    > just behind it, now with the tables gone if I scroll down the text gets
    > offset above the cursor the amount that I've scrolled the screen. It does
    > the same if I scroll horizontally by putting the text ahead of the cursor
    > the same amount I've scrolled left. I'm not that conversant with
    > JavaScript, but I'm trying, so could someone either tell me what is the
    > likely problem or at least point me in the right direction so I can figure
    > it out myself? I've emailed the author of the original code but so far no
    > response so I'm hoping I can get some enlightenment here.


    As others have pointed out, that mouse trail URL you quote is from
    another era and not written for recent browsers. Mouse trails were very
    popular many years ago when IE4 and Netscape 4 series browsers were the
    newest thing on the block. There are still several of these scripts
    around at script sites, but most have not been updated in a long time.

    Dynamic drive has several of these scripts, most of which do not work
    properly for some recent browsers. However they did update an old one
    so it will handle most of the more popular most recent browsers. It
    however used images instead of letters in the trail. However you can
    use a jpg or gif of letters so that you can use the script without
    extensive modification. However this script will work properly on some
    modern browsers only if you use no Doctype, or the one for html 4.01
    transitional. It fails for html 4.01 strict and higher. Also the effect
    will extend only to the bottom of the page content on most browsers,
    but content is not needed for Firefox. I cleaned up the script just
    enough to get it to validate at W3C. Extensive revision of the script
    likely is needed to work at html 4.01 strict and above, and I do not
    have enough interest in this effect to try to revise the script. I have
    a page at http://www.cwdjr.net/text/mousetail.html . It worked on the
    latest versions of Firefox, Netscape, Mozilla, Opera, and IE6; also on
    the old Netscape 4.8. The sizes of the trailing letters can be changed
    in the array T. But be very careful when you edit an array - the
    slightest little error often kills the script completely.

    I do not think I would use this effect on a site viewed by the general
    public, because I think it may bother some people, but I could be
    wrong. Perhaps, if it is used only now and then, it would not become so
    tiresome.
    cwdjrxyz, Apr 22, 2006
    #18
  19. Bill

    Nije Nego Guest

    On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:47:37 -0400, Bill wrote:

    PLEASE DON'T TOPPOST AND DON'T MULTIPOST!

    Follow up set to alt.html

    > <rant>
    > I know I'm going to regret this and may loose any help but I get tired of
    > self styled net etiquette cops who just have to feel superior to someone by
    > using the 'don't top post' blurb. Guess what, it's an individual decision
    > which I've consciously made. I've followed many a news group thread where
    > you have to scroll down to the bottom of a 3 or 4 screen length post just
    > to read a "Me too" addition. Please don't respond with that tired old "This
    > is how it has always been done since the dawn of Usenet" sound bite, it was
    > old 10 years ago and now it's getting so long in the tooth it should be put
    > out of its misery. If I read a post that is bottom posted or, God forbid,
    > mixed in with the original post I don't complain to the poster, I adapt.
    > I've seen some real doozies with the inline postings too, no snipping and
    > one word answers inserted in a 3 page post, gack, talk about playing spot
    > the reply. All in all there are three "Standards" in posting, top, inline
    > and bottom, pick one and move on with your life but don't take it on
    > yourself to "force" your preferences on others.
    > </rant>
    >
    > Now just to be fair minded scroll down for my original reply to this post.
    >
    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    > news:4448e93e$0$3690$...


    With this kind of approach you would soon finish in most of the killfiles,
    wondering why nobody is replying.

    --
    buy, bought, bye
    Nije Nego, Apr 22, 2006
    #19
  20. Bill

    Gufus Guest

    Hi Jonathan,

    Friday April 21 2006, Jonathan N. Little writes to Gufus:

    > From:
    > Amazes me how difficult a concept it can be for some.


    Yep.

    --
    K Klement

    .... My dog has no nose.
    Gufus, Apr 23, 2006
    #20
    1. Advertising

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