mozilla border bug?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Aquila Deus, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. Aquila Deus

    Aquila Deus Guest

    http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/

    The borders of the menu items are not right. Each menu item consists
    of a div and a table inside of the div, and both of the div and the
    table have borders. The problem is that the two borders overlap
    partially in mozilla/firefox (but not in IE6). Is this a bug? Or did I
    do something wrong?
    Aquila Deus, Nov 29, 2004
    #1
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  2. Aquila Deus wrote:

    > http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/
    >
    > The borders of the menu items are not right. Each menu item consists
    > of a div and a table inside of the div, and both of the div and the
    > table have borders. The problem is that the two borders overlap
    > partially in mozilla/firefox (but not in IE6). Is this a bug? Or did I
    > do something wrong?


    I am looking at this in Konqueror under Linux. I can't see any problem with
    the menus and the borders between menu items. However, I see some
    distracting spacing where the edges are round. This does _not_ happen under
    Firefox. All looks perfect apart from some different shades where the round
    pieces are put. There is also some missing piece of line to the right of
    'My Works'

    Apart from that, great design!

    --
    Roy Schestowitz
    http://schestowitz.com
    Roy Schestowitz, Nov 29, 2004
    #2
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  3. Aquila Deus wrote:

    > http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/
    >
    > The borders of the menu items are not right. Each menu item consists
    > of a div and a table inside of the div, and both of the div and the
    > table have borders. The problem is that the two borders overlap
    > partially in mozilla/firefox (but not in IE6). Is this a bug? Or did I
    > do something wrong?


    You might also wish to have a look at the spacing between menu items. It
    changes when 'Site Info' is selected. The menu appears on the left hand
    side of the page under Konqueror.

    --
    Roy Schestowitz
    http://schestowitz.com
    Roy Schestowitz, Nov 29, 2004
    #3
  4. Aquila Deus

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Aquila Deus wrote:

    > http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/
    > The borders of the menu items are not right.


    Looks fine in Moz 1.6 here.

    In Opera 7.53 though the borders are literally "not right" -- the top,
    left and bottom border for each menu item is displayed, but not the right
    one. Though to be honest, it's a nice effect either way.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Nov 29, 2004
    #4
  5. Aquila Deus

    Aquila Deus Guest

    Roy Schestowitz <> wrote in message news:<coej72$27p3$>...
    > Aquila Deus wrote:
    >
    > > http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/
    > >
    > > The borders of the menu items are not right. Each menu item consists
    > > of a div and a table inside of the div, and both of the div and the
    > > table have borders. The problem is that the two borders overlap
    > > partially in mozilla/firefox (but not in IE6). Is this a bug? Or did I
    > > do something wrong?

    >
    > I am looking at this in Konqueror under Linux. I can't see any problem with
    > the menus and the borders between menu items. However, I see some
    > distracting spacing where the edges are round. This does _not_ happen under
    > Firefox. All looks perfect apart from some different shades where the round
    > pieces are put. There is also some missing piece of line to the right of
    > 'My Works'


    I changed menuitems' order and the prob is still there... very weird

    >
    > Apart from that, great design!


    Thank you! this is the first time I try out non-geek graphics design :))
    Aquila Deus, Nov 30, 2004
    #5
  6. Aquila Deus

    Aquila Deus Guest

    Toby Inkster <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Aquila Deus wrote:
    >
    > > http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/
    > > The borders of the menu items are not right.

    >
    > Looks fine in Moz 1.6 here.
    >
    > In Opera 7.53 though the borders are literally "not right" -- the top,
    > left and bottom border for each menu item is displayed, but not the right
    > one. Though to be honest, it's a nice effect either way.


    ummm... well, but I expect it to be that:
    http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome.png (IE6)
    Aquila Deus, Nov 30, 2004
    #6
  7. Aquila Deus

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Aquila Deus wrote:
    > Toby Inkster wrote:
    >> Aquila Deus wrote:
    >>
    >>> http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/
    >>> The borders of the menu items are not right.

    >>
    >> Looks fine in Moz 1.6 here.
    >>
    >> In Opera 7.53 though the borders are literally "not right" -- the top,
    >> left and bottom border for each menu item is displayed, but not the right
    >> one.

    >
    > ummm... well, but I expect it to be that:
    > http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome.png (IE6)


    Your screenshot is not what I described.

    Notice -- no right borders:
    http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/not-right

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Nov 30, 2004
    #7
  8. Aquila Deus

    Aquila Deus Guest

    Toby Inkster <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Aquila Deus wrote:
    > > Toby Inkster wrote:
    > >> Aquila Deus wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/
    > >>> The borders of the menu items are not right.
    > >>
    > >> Looks fine in Moz 1.6 here.
    > >>
    > >> In Opera 7.53 though the borders are literally "not right" -- the top,
    > >> left and bottom border for each menu item is displayed, but not the right
    > >> one.

    > >
    > > ummm... well, but I expect it to be that:
    > > http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome.png (IE6)

    >
    > Your screenshot is not what I described.
    >
    > Notice -- no right borders:
    > http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/not-right


    Oh... all right, now I really have to add mozilla/opera-specific code.... ffff!
    Aquila Deus, Dec 1, 2004
    #8
  9. Aquila Deus

    rf Guest

    Aquila Deus wrote:

    > Oh... all right, now I really have to add mozilla/opera-specific code....

    ffff!

    If your HTML and CSS were not so incredibly complex you would not need to.

    When I looked at the source to find out what this thread is about I simply
    could not believe it. I had to go back to my browser to see if anything was
    hiding under the fold. Pages and pages of HTML for what looks to be a quite
    simple menu.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 1, 2004
    #9
  10. Aquila Deus

    Aquila Deus Guest

    I solved it!! YEY!!!

    I changed border-collapse from collapse to separate, then use a table
    with a td (where outer border is in) as the outer pane to replace the
    original div. Now it works perfectly in both of firefox and IE :))

    Thanks for you guys!!
    Aquila Deus, Dec 1, 2004
    #10
  11. Aquila Deus

    Aquila Deus Guest

    "rf" <rf@.invalid> wrote in message news:<kl9rd.54153$>...
    > Aquila Deus wrote:
    >
    > > Oh... all right, now I really have to add mozilla/opera-specific code....

    > ffff!
    >
    > If your HTML and CSS were not so incredibly complex you would not need to.
    >
    > When I looked at the source to find out what this thread is about I simply
    > could not believe it. I had to go back to my browser to see if anything was
    > hiding under the fold. Pages and pages of HTML for what looks to be a quite
    > simple menu.


    Yes, but mozilla and IE handle many CSS properties differently. And W3
    doesn't define all details.
    Aquila Deus, Dec 1, 2004
    #11
  12. Aquila Deus

    rf Guest

    Aquila Deus wrote:
    > "rf" <rf@.invalid> wrote in message

    news:<kl9rd.54153$>...

    > > If your HTML and CSS were not so incredibly complex you would not need

    to.

    > Yes, but mozilla and IE handle many CSS properties differently.


    Yes, we know that. All browsers render things somewhat differently.

    > And W3
    > doesn't define all details.


    And why should they. They are there to supply the recommendations, not
    comment on browser differences. The rest of the web and the newsgroups do
    that.

    You also entirely missed the point. Your code is *complex*. Way too complex.
    Nesting tables within divs within tables within whatever and then throwing
    three files full of CSS at the lot is *bound* to make some browser barf. You
    have used a whole forest full of trees to construct one simple dog house.

    Rewrite it, keeping it real simple. I would not expect more than one
    screenfull of HTML and one of CSS and *no* javascript.

    If a simple menu takes up so much code space I shudder to think what the
    entire page will be like. Start simple now or that page will continue to
    bite you :)

    Oh, you might also validate the code. Things like </my:MenuItem> are
    probably not helping.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 1, 2004
    #12
  13. Aquila Deus

    Aquila Deus Guest

    "rf" <rf@.invalid> wrote in message news:<bjgrd.54906$>...
    > Aquila Deus wrote:
    > > "rf" <rf@.invalid> wrote in message

    > news:<kl9rd.54153$>...
    >
    > > > If your HTML and CSS were not so incredibly complex you would not need

    > to.
    >
    > > Yes, but mozilla and IE handle many CSS properties differently.

    >
    > Yes, we know that. All browsers render things somewhat differently.
    >
    > > And W3
    > > doesn't define all details.

    >
    > And why should they. They are there to supply the recommendations, not
    > comment on browser differences. The rest of the web and the newsgroups do
    > that.


    No, I mean W3's CSS should be very very clear. There should not be
    anything vague or undefined. We all know IE isn't standard-compatible,
    but it would be worse if other browsers which try to be compatible
    can't find way to go.

    >
    > You also entirely missed the point. Your code is *complex*. Way too complex.
    > Nesting tables within divs within tables within whatever and then throwing
    > three files full of CSS at the lot is *bound* to make some browser barf. You
    > have used a whole forest full of trees to construct one simple dog house.


    complex code is not a problem, since it's not really plain html but
    ASP.NET code. You could view the code at
    http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/aqdhome/AqDHome/

    >
    > Rewrite it, keeping it real simple. I would not expect more than one
    > screenfull of HTML and one of CSS and *no* javascript.
    >
    > If a simple menu takes up so much code space I shudder to think what the
    > entire page will be like. Start simple now or that page will continue to
    > bite you :)
    >
    > Oh, you might also validate the code. Things like </my:MenuItem> are
    > probably not helping.


    Ah, I have removed it :)
    Aquila Deus, Dec 1, 2004
    #13
  14. Aquila Deus

    rf Guest

    Aquila Deus wrote:
    > "rf" <rf@.invalid> wrote in message

    news:<bjgrd.54906$>...

    > > You also entirely missed the point. Your code is *complex*. Way too

    complex.

    > complex code is not a problem, since it's not really plain html but
    > ASP.NET code. You could view the code at
    > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/aqdhome/AqDHome/


    But complex code *is* your problem. Why are you here asking why your borders
    don't work in certain browsers? The answer is because you have complex code.
    The fact that it is spat out by asp is irrelevant, it *is* "plain HTML" by
    the time it gets to the browser.

    You have complex nested tables and divs and it is upsetting the browsers. If
    you had *simple* code then the browsers would not get upset, your borders
    would not break and you would not be here asking for help.

    Simpify the HTML. Simplify the CSS. When you do that your problem will
    disappear.

    Can it be any more simple than that?

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 1, 2004
    #14
  15. Aquila Deus

    Toby Inkster Guest

    rf wrote:

    > Simpify the HTML. Simplify the CSS. When you do that your problem will
    > disappear.


    Tada!

    Original:
    http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/

    Rewrite:
    http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/aqdhome/page

    Simple HTML. Mainly pretty simple CSS (though there's a lot of it). No
    javascript.

    Tested in:

    - Opera 7 for Windows
    - Opera 7.5 for Linux
    - Mozilla 1.0 for Windows
    - Mozilla 1.6 for Linux
    - Firefox 0.9 for Windows
    - Internet Explorer 6 for Windows

    Works in all of them.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Dec 2, 2004
    #15
  16. Aquila Deus

    rf Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > rf wrote:
    >
    > > Simpify the HTML. Simplify the CSS. When you do that your problem will
    > > disappear.

    >
    > Tada!


    You beat me to it :-(

    > Original:
    > http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/
    >
    > Rewrite:
    > http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/aqdhome/page
    >
    > Simple HTML. Mainly pretty simple CSS (though there's a lot of it). No
    > javascript.


    Very well done sir!

    A quarter of a page of HTML and only two of CSS.

    > Tested in:


    FWIW IE5.5 has a problem with the content. It's all wordwrapped to one word
    per line. Nothing insurmountable though, the odd IE hack would fix it. Also
    a couple of artifacts in IE 5.01, some blank space in the graphics. Once
    again no problem and, probably, who cares.

    An aging opera 6 doesn't like it but who cares.

    It linearizes quite properly, and very neatly, in IE3 and lynx, something
    the original does *not* do.

    I wonder now how the value of "simple code" will be apreciated :)

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 2, 2004
    #16
  17. Aquila Deus

    Aquila Deus Guest

    Toby Inkster <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > rf wrote:
    >
    > > Simpify the HTML. Simplify the CSS. When you do that your problem will
    > > disappear.

    >
    > Tada!
    >
    > Original:
    > http://www.aquila-deus.no-ip.org/AqDHome/
    >
    > Rewrite:
    > http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/aqdhome/page
    >
    > Simple HTML. Mainly pretty simple CSS (though there's a lot of it). No
    > javascript.
    >
    > Tested in:
    >
    > - Opera 7 for Windows
    > - Opera 7.5 for Linux
    > - Mozilla 1.0 for Windows
    > - Mozilla 1.6 for Linux
    > - Firefox 0.9 for Windows
    > - Internet Explorer 6 for Windows
    >
    > Works in all of them.


    Very nice :)

    But I can't accept, because padding and margin may be screwed under
    some conditions, and I can't predict what there will be in the left
    content pane. (even the menu pane may have other things)... that's why
    I use <td> with <img> everywhere instead, to enforce the final layout.
    Aquila Deus, Dec 2, 2004
    #17
  18. Aquila Deus

    rf Guest

    Aquila Deus wrote:
    > Toby Inkster <> wrote in message


    > > http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/aqdhome/page


    > Very nice :)
    >
    > But I can't accept,


    Then you are a bloody idiot and your problems will remain until your web
    site dies.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 2, 2004
    #18
  19. Aquila Deus

    Toby Inkster Guest

    rf wrote:

    > It linearizes quite properly, and very neatly, in IE3 and lynx, something
    > the original does *not* do.


    Of course it does. Minus tables and some such, I tend to do most of my
    initial HTML testing in Lynx (then I do most of my initial CSS and
    Javascript testing in Opera).

    My favourite bit is the sneaky dual use of the skiplink class.

    Yeah, I know about the Opera 6 and IE 5.x problems. It's a shame. I do try
    to get most of my CSS layouts working in Opera 3.62+, but it's not always
    possible. IE 5.x can be worked around with one or two tiny hacks, but I
    wanted to keep the example as simple as possible.

    (There's only one thing in it that I'd class as a hack -- the last 4 lines
    of the CSS. IE doesn't like the right margin -- prefers padding; Moz
    doesn't like right padding -- prefers margin; Opera doesn't mind either.)

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Dec 3, 2004
    #19
  20. Aquila Deus

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Aquila Deus wrote:

    > But I can't accept, because padding and margin may be screwed under
    > some conditions, and I can't predict what there will be in the left
    > content pane.


    But it ought to give you some ideas on how your menu can be simplified.

    I'm sure there is some kind of compromise to which you can come -- e.g. a
    single layout table to create the initial two-column effect, but then CSS
    to layout the menu *within* that column.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Dec 3, 2004
    #20
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