Multimedia

Discussion in 'Java' started by Luc The Perverse, Oct 23, 2005.

  1. I have used applications which search through image files, look at the
    picture, cross reference and generate a list of images which it considers
    similiar. Sometimes it would be way off, but it seemed like for the most
    part there were a lot more false positives than false negatives.

    I was wondering if there is open source technology to do this. (Or similar
    operations for Audio and video.)

    It was trivial generating a client which could search for duplicate file
    sizes and then run a checksum on the files to see if they match.

    --
    "It's better to have rocked and lost than never to have rocked at
    all." -John Flansburgh
     
    Luc The Perverse, Oct 23, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Luc The Perverse

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:23:43 -0600, "Luc The Perverse"
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >I have used applications which search through image files, look at the
    >picture, cross reference and generate a list of images which it considers
    >similiar. Sometimes it would be way off, but it seemed like for the most
    >part there were a lot more false positives than false negatives.


    I have often wanted a search engine that could find pictures "similar"
    to a given one.

    Here is an idea for a reasonably simple though slow algorithm.

    You take say a 8x8 grid square and overlay it over the image. You then
    look for the most complicated square. I define "complicated" as the
    square with the most distinct colours. For tie breaking, you sum the
    contrast between all adjacent pixel pairs.

    You then shift the grid one pixel right and repeat. Then you repeat
    shifting the grid down, until you have covered all possible grids over
    the image. Eventually you will discover the most compilicated grid
    square. This square considered as a binary number is what you index
    images by. Feel free to optimise the algorithm.

    This is mainly to help you find duplicate images that were cropped to
    find copyright violations. It won't find similar images with doctored
    contrast, colours, or scaling, ditto images that have been changed
    from jpg to png etc.

    And unfortunately, it won't help you to find pictures of blue spotted
    tree frogs.







    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Oct 23, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "Roedy Green" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:23:43 -0600, "Luc The Perverse"
    > <> wrote or quoted :
    >
    >>I have used applications which search through image files, look at the
    >>picture, cross reference and generate a list of images which it considers
    >>similiar. Sometimes it would be way off, but it seemed like for the most
    >>part there were a lot more false positives than false negatives.

    >
    > I have often wanted a search engine that could find pictures "similar"
    > to a given one.
    >
    > Here is an idea for a reasonably simple though slow algorithm.
    >
    > You take say a 8x8 grid square and overlay it over the image. You then
    > look for the most complicated square. I define "complicated" as the
    > square with the most distinct colours. For tie breaking, you sum the
    > contrast between all adjacent pixel pairs.
    >
    > You then shift the grid one pixel right and repeat. Then you repeat
    > shifting the grid down, until you have covered all possible grids over
    > the image. Eventually you will discover the most compilicated grid
    > square. This square considered as a binary number is what you index
    > images by. Feel free to optimise the algorithm.
    >
    > This is mainly to help you find duplicate images that were cropped to
    > find copyright violations. It won't find similar images with doctored
    > contrast, colours, or scaling, ditto images that have been changed
    > from jpg to png etc.
    >
    > And unfortunately, it won't help you to find pictures of blue spotted
    > tree frogs.



    You lost me with the blue spotted tree frogs part.

    You've got me thinking though. I think edge detection may be the key.

    If there isn't something out there that does this already (which I don't
    believe) then there should be!

    --
    "It's better to have rocked and lost than never to have rocked at
    all." -John Flansburgh
     
    Luc The Perverse, Oct 23, 2005
    #3
  4. Luc The Perverse wrote:
    > "Roedy Green" <> wrote in
    > message news:...

    ...
    >>And unfortunately, it won't help you to find pictures of blue spotted
    >>tree frogs.

    >
    > You lost me with the blue spotted tree frogs part.


    Such 'pixel comparison' methods cannot determine high level information.
    - 'Blue'(ish/predominantly) - maybe.
    - 'Spotted' - much harder.
    - Tree frogs - "I've cracked machine vision! Where's my Nobel prize?"
     
    Andrew Thompson, Oct 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Luc The Perverse

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:09:09 GMT, Andrew Thompson
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >Such 'pixel comparison' methods cannot determine high level information.
    >- 'Blue'(ish/predominantly) - maybe.
    >- 'Spotted' - much harder.
    >- Tree frogs - "I've cracked machine vision! Where's my Nobel prize?"


    Does there exist some standard for encoding picture content inside the
    image in a way that Google for example could find photos of George
    Bush with Harriet Miers in the 1970s in Albania. or
    Installing a xxxx cartridge in a yyyy printer?

    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Oct 23, 2005
    #5
  6. Roedy Green wrote:

    > On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:09:09 GMT, Andrew Thompson
    > <> wrote or quoted :
    >
    >
    >>Such 'pixel comparison' methods cannot determine high level information.
    >>- 'Blue'(ish/predominantly) - maybe.
    >>- 'Spotted' - much harder.
    >>- Tree frogs - "I've cracked machine vision! Where's my Nobel prize?"

    >
    > Does there exist some standard for encoding picture content inside the
    > image in a way that Google for example could find photos of George
    > Bush with Harriet Miers in the 1970s in Albania.


    No. JPG's (as well as a variety of other image formats) have
    the capacity to store extra information in images (mostly related
    to the specifics of the 'shot' - F-Stop, timing..), some can also
    store the type of meaningul information you are referring to.

    Unfortunately, it seems that there is little/standards
    commonality amongst the format of this infromation even
    for single image types, let alone image types in general.

    I was just thinking of the process that Google uses to
    pull up images before I saw your post, actually, and was
    about to point out the problem becomes a lot simpler with
    meaningful file names like ..

    'blue_spotted_tree_frog.jpg'

    ;-)

    > ...or
    > Installing a xxxx cartridge in a yyyy printer?


    .....huh? Are we still talking about images?
     
    Andrew Thompson, Oct 23, 2005
    #6
  7. Luc The Perverse

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:30:20 GMT, Andrew Thompson
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >> Installing a xxxx cartridge in a yyyy printer?

    >
    >....huh? Are we still talking about images?


    a diagram.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Oct 23, 2005
    #7
  8. Luc The Perverse

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:09:09 GMT, Andrew Thompson
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >Such 'pixel comparison' methods cannot determine high level information.
    >- 'Blue'(ish/predominantly) - maybe.
    >- 'Spotted' - much harder.
    >- Tree frogs - "I've cracked machine vision! Where's my Nobel prize?"


    I really enjoyed that post. It is a joy to see someone pack so much
    into so few words.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Oct 23, 2005
    #8
  9. Roedy Green wrote:

    > On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:09:09 GMT, Andrew Thompson
    > <> wrote or quoted :
    >
    >>Such 'pixel comparison' methods cannot determine high level information.
    >>- 'Blue'(ish/predominantly) - maybe.
    >>- 'Spotted' - much harder.
    >>- Tree frogs - "I've cracked machine vision! Where's my Nobel prize?"

    >
    > I really enjoyed that post. It is a joy to see someone pack so much
    > into so few words.


    I was thinking much the same of your original statement!

    [ ..and as an added bonus, I like frogs. :) ]
     
    Andrew Thompson, Oct 23, 2005
    #9
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. MiniMe
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    472
    MiniMe
    Mar 27, 2006
  2. rexguo
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    361
    rexguo
    Jan 17, 2006
  3. bigwood
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,039
    bigwood
    Apr 11, 2006
  4. brucie
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,019
    Whitecrest
    Jul 2, 2003
  5. Whitecrest
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    858
    Whitecrest
    Jun 29, 2003
Loading...

Share This Page