My first CMS

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Jim Royal, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. Jim Royal

    Jim Royal Guest

    Sorry for the slightly off-topic post.

    I'm likely going to be building a web site that includes a CMS. This
    will be a first for me. I have tentitively selected Mambo as the
    publishing engine.

    My question in a nutshell... What's the most common mistake that
    someone in my position is likely to make?

    The question is directed at those who wish that they knew then what
    they know now. I seek the benefit of your hindsight.

    --
    Jim Royal
    "Understanding is a three-edged sword"
    http://JimRoyal.com
     
    Jim Royal, Jan 17, 2005
    #1
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  2. Jim Royal wrote:
    > Sorry for the slightly off-topic post.
    >
    > I'm likely going to be building a web site that includes a CMS. This
    > will be a first for me. I have tentitively selected Mambo as the
    > publishing engine.


    good choice.
    >
    > My question in a nutshell... What's the most common mistake that
    > someone in my position is likely to make?


    don't overload your site with all the gadgets mambo offers. just try to
    install mambo once, and play around. don't get excited by all the
    additional modules and components you can add. just install mambo as it
    is, and try to experiment until you have fully understand how content is
    being handled, and how the basic components work together.
    reduce to the max.

    cheers
    bernhard

    --
    www.daszeichen.ch
    remove nixspam to reply
     
    Bernhard Sturm, Jan 17, 2005
    #2
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  3. Jim Royal

    Karl Core Guest

    "Jim Royal" <> wrote in message
    news:170120051252568872%...
    > Sorry for the slightly off-topic post.
    >
    > I'm likely going to be building a web site that includes a CMS. This
    > will be a first for me. I have tentitively selected Mambo as the
    > publishing engine.
    >
    > My question in a nutshell... What's the most common mistake that
    > someone in my position is likely to make?
    >
    > The question is directed at those who wish that they knew then what
    > they know now. I seek the benefit of your hindsight.
    >


    Content Management Systems, when used by someone with no clear vision of
    what the site will contain, always lead to chaotic information architecture.
    I have seen this happen so many times. Someone in the organization (who
    knows jack shit about the Web and Information Architecture) is often given
    free reign to dump whatever garbage into the CMS that they see fit - usually
    at the behest of some equally clueless moron in upper management.

    Like any website, tt is important that you (and all involved) come to a
    solid, easy-to-use and understand information architecture before any work
    begins on the site itself. Ferret out all possible topics and sections to
    iron out the content of the site and the structure of that content.

    Mambo is an excellent CMS, from what I've seen and will make your job
    easier, so I say go for it. Just recognize that it is only a tool, not a
    solution.


    --
    -Karl Core
    Please Support "Project Boneyard":
    http://www.insurgence.net/info.aspx?action=band&item=boneyard
     
    Karl Core, Jan 17, 2005
    #3
  4. Jim Royal

    Tom Guest

    "Jim Royal" <> wrote in message
    news:170120051252568872%...
    > Sorry for the slightly off-topic post.
    >
    > I'm likely going to be building a web site that includes a CMS. This
    > will be a first for me. I have tentitively selected Mambo as the
    > publishing engine.
    >
    > My question in a nutshell... What's the most common mistake that
    > someone in my position is likely to make?
    >
    > The question is directed at those who wish that they knew then what
    > they know now. I seek the benefit of your hindsight.
    >

    I have just used mambo for the first time and found it to be excellent. We
    have resisted the temptation to change the look and feel too much, until the
    multiple users get used to it.

    If anything we have not 'published' all the features to keep it simple.

    I found it easy to install/configure and easy to use.

    I would say that the biggest mistake would be to change too much too soon.
    At the start - less is more.
     
    Tom, Jan 17, 2005
    #4
  5. On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:01:34 -0500, Karl Core wrote:

    > Like any website, tt is important that you (and all involved) come to a
    > solid, easy-to-use and understand information architecture before any work
    > begins on the site itself. Ferret out all possible topics and sections to
    > iron out the content of the site and the structure of that content.
    >
    > Mambo is an excellent CMS, from what I've seen and will make your job
    > easier, so I say go for it. Just recognize that it is only a tool, not a
    > solution.


    Great answer!

    --
    Jeffrey Silverman

    ** Drop "PANTS" to reply by email
     
    Jeffrey Silverman, Jan 18, 2005
    #5
  6. Jim Royal

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Toby Inkster, Jan 18, 2005
    #6
  7. Jeffrey Silverman wrote:
    > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:52:56 -0500, Jim Royal wrote:
    > Using Mambo.
    >
    > I had a *very* hard time figuring out how to configure Mambo to my liking
    > and eventually gave up and went to Nucleus. My site is run on Nucleus.
    >
    > http://www.newtnotes.com


    how can this be XHTML strict?
    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

    when you have such links:
    href="index.php?catid=3&amp;blogid=1"

    and tags:
    <img border="0" src="/images/upper_left_nn_logo.png" alt="nn logo">

    this would not even be valid XHTML transitional

    :)
    bernhard

    p.s. in this case mambo isn't any better (maybe the upcoming v5.0, but
    there is no real XHTML implementation of mambo available)

    --
    www.daszeichen.ch
    remove nixspam to reply


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    Bernhard Sturm, Jan 18, 2005
    #7
  8. Re: My first CMS (ignore above post)

    Bernhard Sturm wrote (wrongly):
    >
    >
    > how can this be XHTML strict?
    > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
    > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">


    ooopss.. sorry.. for that.. must be too early in the morning... outch.
    you ARE right and I read it wrong.
    so ignore my above post...
    shee.. have to WORK now

    bernhard (completely blind for any HTML doctype :)

    --
    www.daszeichen.ch
    remove nixspam to reply


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    Bernhard Sturm, Jan 18, 2005
    #8
  9. Jim Royal

    JDS Guest

    On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:08:39 +0100, Bernhard Sturm wrote:

    > p.s. in this case mambo isn't any better (maybe the upcoming v5.0, but
    > there is no real XHTML implementation of mambo available)


    Well, whether or not the page validates has nothing to do with the
    underlying CMS.

    --
    JDS |
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
     
    JDS, Jan 18, 2005
    #9
  10. JDS wrote:
    > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:08:39 +0100, Bernhard Sturm wrote:
    >
    >
    >>p.s. in this case mambo isn't any better (maybe the upcoming v5.0, but
    >>there is no real XHTML implementation of mambo available)

    >
    >
    > Well, whether or not the page validates has nothing to do with the
    > underlying CMS.

    unfortunately it has.. mambo has an engine which handles content items
    and other content related stuff (as all other CMS do). If your CMS is
    producing links such as:

    <a href='index.php?content=15&item=5&lang=de' title='xx'>

    then this would not validate as XHTML because the entity & has to be
    composed as &amp; by the CMS... (and the link is not SEF as well, but
    this would be another issue, which mambo can handle perfectly :)

    the same goes for all the other handling of tags and properties. an
    image tag produced by your CMS like:

    <img src='foo.gif' ALT='foo'>

    would not validate (as the tag has to be closed and uppercase properties
    are not allowed)

    and so on... a CMS is not only a database but it's an entire system
    which produces HTML/XHTML output based on a template and internal CMS
    HTML output rules, and this can be validated.

    cheers
    bernhard
    --
    www.daszeichen.ch
    remove nixspam to reply


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    Bernhard Sturm, Jan 18, 2005
    #10
  11. Jim Royal

    Jim Royal Guest

    In article <41ebfe7c$1_1@127.0.0.1>, Bernhard Sturm
    <> wrote:

    > don't overload your site with all the gadgets mambo offers. just try to
    > install mambo once, and play around. don't get excited by all the
    > additional modules and components you can add. just install mambo as it
    > is, and try to experiment until you have fully understand how content is
    > being handled, and how the basic components work together.
    > reduce to the max.


    Excellent advice. Many thanks.

    --
    Jim Royal
    "Understanding is a three-edged sword"
    http://JimRoyal.com
     
    Jim Royal, Jan 18, 2005
    #11
  12. Jim Royal

    Jim Royal Guest

    In article <csh5iv$b12$>, Karl Core
    <> wrote:

    > Like any website, tt is important that you (and all involved) come to a
    > solid, easy-to-use and understand information architecture before any work
    > begins on the site itself. Ferret out all possible topics and sections to
    > iron out the content of the site and the structure of that content.


    I always start from a detailed sitemap, and have draft content produced
    before designing. But it is good to be reminded. It is also important
    to remember that a too narrowly-defined IA can be a straightjacket for
    the people creating new content using the CMS.

    --
    Jim Royal
    "Understanding is a three-edged sword"
    http://JimRoyal.com
     
    Jim Royal, Jan 18, 2005
    #12
  13. Jim Royal

    Jim Royal Guest

    In article <cshdqk$fp0$>, Tom <>
    wrote:

    > I would say that the biggest mistake would be to change too much too soon.
    > At the start - less is more.


    Thanks!

    --
    Jim Royal
    "Understanding is a three-edged sword"
    http://JimRoyal.com
     
    Jim Royal, Jan 18, 2005
    #13
  14. Jim Royal

    Jim Royal Guest

    In article <>, Jeffrey Silverman
    <> wrote:

    > I have several CMSes at this point and the one I've liked the best so far
    > has been Nucleus. I think you can find that at nucleuscms.org. Nucleus
    > is easy (as compared to Mambo) to customize, has plenty of documentation
    > (but admittedly could use more) and is easy to install.


    I will check out Nucleus. Thanks.

    --
    Jim Royal
    "Understanding is a three-edged sword"
    http://JimRoyal.com
     
    Jim Royal, Jan 18, 2005
    #14
  15. Jim Royal

    JDS Guest

    On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:21:27 +0100, Bernhard Sturm wrote:

    > If your CMS is
    > producing links such as:
    >
    > <a href='index.php?content=15&item=5&lang=de' title='xx'>
    >
    > then this would not validate as XHTML because the entity & has to be
    > composed as &amp; by the CMS...


    Oh, right, gotcha. You are correct.

    --
    JDS |
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
     
    JDS, Jan 18, 2005
    #15
  16. Jim Royal

    JDS Guest

    On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:05:53 -0500, Jim Royal wrote:

    > I will check out Nucleus. Thanks.


    Hey, also consider checking out this site:

    http://www.opensourcecms.com/

    It is a very good starting point for getting probably too much information
    on CMSes available to you.

    --
    JDS |
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
     
    JDS, Jan 18, 2005
    #16
  17. Jim Royal

    Karl Core Guest

    "Jim Royal" <> wrote in message
    news:180120051204212278%...
    > In article <csh5iv$b12$>, Karl Core
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Like any website, tt is important that you (and all involved) come to a
    >> solid, easy-to-use and understand information architecture before any
    >> work
    >> begins on the site itself. Ferret out all possible topics and sections
    >> to
    >> iron out the content of the site and the structure of that content.

    >
    > I always start from a detailed sitemap, and have draft content produced
    > before designing. But it is good to be reminded. It is also important
    > to remember that a too narrowly-defined IA can be a straightjacket for
    > the people creating new content using the CMS.


    Make sure the site's structure is reflective of your user's concept of how
    the site should be structured, not your concept, because they won't
    necessarily agree.


    --
    -Karl Core
    Please Support "Project Boneyard":
    http://www.insurgence.net/info.aspx?action=band&item=boneyard
     
    Karl Core, Jan 18, 2005
    #17
  18. Jim Royal

    JDS Guest

    On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:11:55 +0000, Toby Inkster wrote:

    > Hardly a great advertisement for the CMS -- check your meta tags.


    Right. Well, my point is merely that I was able to configure my site
    using Nucleus how I wanted it to look.

    I was *never* able to get Mambo to do what I wanted! Mambo's concepts
    just did not work within the scope of the way I conceive a website.
    Nucleus, though, was much much much easier to maxi-configure. For me,
    that is. With Mambo I was forced into using one of their "templates" and
    that just wasn't what I wanted to do.

    My META tags could be fixed relatively easily. I just don't give a shit
    enough right now to fix 'em. It is not a for-profit site, after all --
    nothing riding on it.

    --
    JDS |
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
     
    JDS, Jan 19, 2005
    #18
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