n00b learning to program for the JVM

Discussion in 'Java' started by laestadian@gmail.com, Apr 9, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Hi, I want to learn programming with Java (the environment). I thought
    you programmed the JVM with the Java programming language, but it
    turns out there are many languages to program the JVM with. Some are
    designed for the the JVM and some converted for the task. This kind of
    got me wondering if these new means are recommended for a newbie
    programmer? I couldn't find any comparison writings between the
    original Java PL and the newer languages.
    So are Java programmers actually taking these languages seriously?
    That is ditching Java for example Groovy or NetREXX?
    Is it essential to know about the Java PL to understand JVM
    programming? How would the Java programmer of tomorrow learn Java
    today?

    Thanks for listening.
    , Apr 9, 2007
    #1
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  2. Chris Uppal Guest

    wrote:

    > Hi, I want to learn programming with Java (the environment). I thought
    > you programmed the JVM with the Java programming language, but it
    > turns out there are many languages to program the JVM with. Some are
    > designed for the the JVM and some converted for the task. This kind of
    > got me wondering if these new means are recommended for a newbie
    > programmer?


    I would say not. If the implementation of some language used the JVM just as
    an implementation detail, so that only "advanced" users knew that it (and the
    Java libraries, etc) were there are all, then there would be no reason to learn
    Java before learning that language. But, as far as I know, there are no
    significant languages, or language implementations, which /do/ take that
    approach.

    But most -- probably all -- of them give great emphasis to the fact that they
    run on the JVM, and that they can (to a greater or lesser degree) work together
    with Java code, and more importantly, the huge set of existing Java libraries.
    So you may as well start out with Java.

    Warning: I mention the following somewhat tentatively, since it could easily be
    misinterpreted. /If/ your primary interest is in writing programs which run on
    the JVM, but have no interest in Java per-se (an unusual situation to be in),
    then you might find it better to concentrate on Java 1.4 and before, since much
    of what was added in 1.5 is implemented exclusively as hacks in the "compiler",
    javac, and has no relevance at all to what the JVM does at runtime.


    > I couldn't find any comparison writings between the
    > original Java PL and the newer languages.
    > So are Java programmers actually taking these languages seriously?
    > That is ditching Java for example Groovy or NetREXX?


    I haven't noticed any such tendency so far. I, personally, expect that we'll
    see more use of scripting languages within the overall Java-based world than we
    have so far, but I don't expect much in the way of other JVM languages
    displacing Java as the primary vehicle for creating code for the JVM.


    > Is it essential to know about the Java PL to understand JVM
    > programming?


    With the above caveat that modern Java adds stuff which is not needed for
    understanding the JVM, I would say that learning Java is the easiest route into
    learning the Java runtime (platform and libraries).

    -- chris
    Chris Uppal, Apr 9, 2007
    #2
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  3. Daniel Pitts Guest

    On Apr 9, 3:39 am, "" <>
    wrote:
    > Hi, I want to learn programming with Java (the environment). I thought
    > you programmed the JVM with the Java programming language, but it
    > turns out there are many languages to program the JVM with. Some are
    > designed for the the JVM and some converted for the task. This kind of
    > got me wondering if these new means are recommended for a newbie
    > programmer? I couldn't find any comparison writings between the
    > original Java PL and the newer languages.
    > So are Java programmers actually taking these languages seriously?
    > That is ditching Java for example Groovy or NetREXX?
    > Is it essential to know about the Java PL to understand JVM
    > programming? How would the Java programmer of tomorrow learn Java
    > today?
    >
    > Thanks for listening.


    Java as a programming language is still strong, and I don't see it
    being replaced by "alternate" languages. Java is also currently more
    widespread. I've heard of a few other languages that run in the JVM,
    but I haven't actually come across and projects that we written in
    them. Not that I've actively sought them out, either...

    Other languages that run in the JVM: Jython and Nice.
    Daniel Pitts, Apr 9, 2007
    #3
  4. Guest

    Thanks for clearing up my confusion and for the sound advise.
    , Apr 10, 2007
    #4
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