Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?

[rantingrick]

Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the
Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i
applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go
on...?-- start with lowercase.

Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right?

WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot "wisely" use
variables like...

str="this is a string"
list = [1,2,3]
def make_random_objs(range=10)
def show_message(str)
int = 12

If we would have adopted proper naming conventions from dios numero
uno all this nonsense would be rectified! Str, Float, List, Range,
etc, etc. You think Python 3000 was a hump to climb over just wait for
Python 4000.

Just thoughts.

 

[Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet]

* rantingrick, on 11.07.2010 09:26:

Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the
Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i
applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go
on...?-- start with lowercase.

Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right?

WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot "wisely" use
variables like...

str="this is a string"
list = [1,2,3]
def make_random_objs(range=10)
def show_message(str)
int = 12

If we would have adopted proper naming conventions from dios numero
uno all this nonsense would be rectified! Str, Float, List, Range,
etc, etc. You think Python 3000 was a hump to climb over just wait for
Python 4000.

Just thoughts.

Just do

Str = str
List = list
Float = float

and so on in module "myBasicTypes", and import that.



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf

 

[Günther Dietrich]

Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the
Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i
applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go
on...?-- start with lowercase.

Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right?

WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot "wisely" use
variables like...

str="this is a string"
list = [1,2,3]
def make_random_objs(range=10)
def show_message(str)
int = 12

Someone who wants to write readable and maintainable code would
(practically) never want to use variables named in this way. Why?
Because these names don't tell anything about the purpose of the
variables.
So, it is not a disadvantage that the functions you listed above are
named in this way. In the contrary, it is an advantage, as it keeps
newcomers from using stupid variable names.

If we would have adopted proper naming conventions from dios numero
uno all this nonsense would be rectified! Str, Float, List, Range,
etc, etc. You think Python 3000 was a hump to climb over just wait for
Python 4000.

Additionally to what I mention above, there is PEP 0008. Read it, you
can learn from it. What you listed above, are functions, and their names
comply completely with PEP 0008.



Regards,

Günther




PS: Even though I suspect that you are simply an agitator rsp. troll
(based on what you posted in this group so far), and normally I refuse
to feed trolls, I make an exception in this case, so newcomers ar not
mislead by your half-baked ideas.

 

[rantingrick]

So, it is not a disadvantage that the functions you listed above are
named in this way. In the contrary, it is an advantage, as it keeps
newcomers from using stupid variable names.

"int" for an Integer is stupid?
"list" for a List is stupid?
"str" for a String is stupid?

What am i missing?

 

[Andre Alexander Bell]

"int" for an Integer is stupid?
"list" for a List is stupid?
"str" for a String is stupid?

What am i missing?

You are missing (from PEP 8):

--- 8< --- 8< ---
Class Names

Almost without exception, class names use the CapWords convention.
Classes for internal use have a leading underscore in addition.

--- 8< --- 8< ---

You may want to think of list, int, str, object, ... as classes that
don't follow this advice with their class name.

But besides that, shouldn't a variable name reflect it's purpose instead
of it's type? E.g.

name = 'rantingrick'
counter = 1
....

as compared to

str = 'rantingrick'
int = 1?

Regards


Andre

 

[News123]

On 07/11/2010 10:30 AM, rantingrick wrote:

You are missing (from PEP 8):

--- 8< --- 8< ---
Class Names

Almost without exception, class names use the CapWords convention.
Classes for internal use have a leading underscore in addition.

--- 8< --- 8< ---

You may want to think of list, int, str, object, ... as classes that
don't follow this advice with their class name.

But besides that, shouldn't a variable name reflect it's purpose instead
of it's type? E.g.

hm, well sometimes I do write generic functions, that do something with
a list or a string or an int.

However a simple way around this is to use following naming style.

to replace
def process_list(list):
dostuff_with(list)

with
def process_list(alist):
dostuff_with(alist)

or with
def process_list(a_list):
dostuff_with(a_list)

I must admit, that I have still problems
to not use the variables range or id

 

[Andreas Waldenburger]

On 07/11/2010 10:30 AM, rantingrick wrote:

So, it is not a disadvantage that the functions you listed above
are named in this way. In the contrary, it is an advantage, as it
keeps newcomers from using stupid variable names.
"int" for an Integer is stupid?
"list" for a List is stupid?
"str" for a String is stupid?

What am i missing?

[snip]

hm, well sometimes I do write generic functions, that do something
with a list or a string or an int.

[snip]

I must admit, that I have still problems
to not use the variables range or id

There are several approaches:

- Use range_, id_, and so on. I think this is the proposed convention.
Slightly ugly, though.
- Use abbreviations, or misspellings like lst, Set, klass, ... Less
ugly, but can get weird.
- Prepend 'a' to a type name: alist, aset, astr. Similar weirdness
potential as above, but more consistent in terms of style. I
sometimes take this to the extreme and prepend 'some_'.

So really, this is a non issue, at least for me.

Having capitalized boolean values ... that is a bit odd, but as long as
children are starving in Africa, this isn't very high on my gripe-list.

/W

 

[News123]

Having capitalized boolean values ... that is a bit odd, but as long as
children are starving in Africa, this isn't very high on my gripe-list.

+1

 

[MRAB]

Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the
Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i
applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go
on...?-- start with lowercase.

Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right?

WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot "wisely" use
variables like...

str="this is a string"
list = [1,2,3]
def make_random_objs(range=10)
def show_message(str)
int = 12

If we would have adopted proper naming conventions from dios numero
uno all this nonsense would be rectified! Str, Float, List, Range,
etc, etc. You think Python 3000 was a hump to climb over just wait for
Python 4000.

Just thoughts.

If you're so unhappy with Python, why don't you create your own
language. I suggest the name "Rantthon".

 

[rantingrick]

If you're so unhappy with Python, why don't you create your own
language. I suggest the name "Rantthon".

Ah yes, then i can finally assume my worthy title of the "Ranting
Dictator For Life"! ;-)

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

"int" for an Integer is stupid?
"list" for a List is stupid?
"str" for a String is stupid?

What am i missing?

If you're going to use generic names, why type three or four letters when
one will do?

i, j, k, m, n, p, q for ints.
L, a, b, x for lists
s, t, a, b for strings.

If you don't want to use generic names, then int, list, str are useless
because they don't mean anything. You need something like:

count_of_widgets
list_of_widgets
description

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the
Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i
applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go on...?--
start with lowercase.

Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right?

WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot "wisely" use
variables like...

str="this is a string"
list = [1,2,3]
def make_random_objs(range=10)
def show_message(str)
int = 12

Yes. So what? You can't wisely use variables like:

True = "rantingrick is an obnoxious loudmouth"
None = "the problem he is describing"

Nor can you wisely use variables like:

len = len("something")
chr = chr(48)


[...]

Just thoughts.

But not deep thoughts.

 

[Mark Lawrence]

Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the
Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i
applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go on...?--
start with lowercase.

Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right?

WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot "wisely" use
variables like...

str="this is a string"
list = [1,2,3]
def make_random_objs(range=10)
def show_message(str)
int = 12

Yes. So what? You can't wisely use variables like:

True = "rantingrick is an obnoxious loudmouth" +1 QOTW
None = "the problem he is describing"

Nor can you wisely use variables like:

len = len("something")
chr = chr(48)


[...]

Just thoughts.

But not deep thoughts.

Well said Steven, or is it Stephen, or Stephan, or Stefen, or what?
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

Well said Steven, or is it Stephen, or Stephan, or Stefen, or what?

For some reason, when I answer the phone and say "Hello, Steven
speaking?" I often get called Peter.

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

For some reason, when I answer the phone and say "Hello, Steven
speaking?" I often get called Peter.

Er, without the question mark.

 

[Terry Reedy]

Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the
Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i
applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go
on...?-- start with lowercase.

This is an anomaly, known to all long-time Pythoneers, due the the
history of Python. Before 2.2 and unification of types and classes as
new-style classes, those were all type constructor *functions*, not
class names. The idea of breaking most every serious Python program on
the planet by upper-casing them has been considered and so far rejected.

 

[Cameron Simpson]

| On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 02:40:07 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
| > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 01:31:14 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
| >> Well said Steven, or is it Stephen, or Stephan, or Stefen, or what?
| >
| > For some reason, when I answer the phone and say "Hello, Steven
| > speaking?" I often get called Peter.
|
| Er, without the question mark.

Ah, so you get differing results when you use the question mark?
Phonetic punctuation; Victor Borge would be proud.
--
Cameron Simpson <[email protected]> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

A lot of people don't know the difference between a violin and a viola, so
I'll tell you. A viola burns longer. - Victor Borge

 

[Jean-Michel Pichavant]

"int" for an Integer is stupid?
"list" for a List is stupid?
"str" for a String is stupid?

What am i missing?

def func154():
int32 = 24
list18 = [int32, 14]
str14 = ""
for int89 in list18:
if int89 == int32 or int89 == 88:
str14 = "I am missing everything"
if str14:
print str14


JM

 

[Neil Cerutti]

If you're going to use generic names, why type three or four letters when
one will do?

i, j, k, m, n, p, q for ints.
L, a, b, x for lists
s, t, a, b for strings.

If you don't want to use generic names, then int, list, str are useless
because they don't mean anything. You need something like:

count_of_widgets
list_of_widgets
description

def map(function, list):
# etc.

It's a slight annoyance, nothing more.

In the data I deal with, I get annoyed at needing to write
student_id instead of id, but it's not a huge issue. The big
consolation is that Python really doesn't care if I happen to
shadow a builtin name that I've never heard of. I forget, and use
id as a variable all the time, and nothing bad happens to me,
because I don't need the builtin function.

To see a really odd example of a similar name clash, create a tab
separated values file with a header line starting with ID (I get
lots of them in my work), and then open it with Excel (I don't
know which version has the most bizarre error message).

 

[Aahz]

For some reason, when I answer the phone and say "Hello, Steven
speaking?" I often get called Peter.

That's the Peter Principle in action.