Navigation lists and accessibility issues

W

Wayne Sallee

Another thing to consider is accessibility for other
languages. So often webmasters have buttons that are
graphic. Not only is it better to use text in the
buttons for other reasons, but also so that if
someone is using a translator, such as Google's
automatic web page translator, the buttons will be
translated.

Wayne Sallee
(e-mail address removed)
 
D

Dylan Parry

Wayne said:
Another thing to consider is accessibility for other
languages. So often webmasters have buttons that are
graphic. Not only is it better to use text in the
buttons for other reasons, but also so that if
someone is using a translator, such as Google's
automatic web page translator, the buttons will be
translated.

Along a similar line, flags shouldn't be used to denote languages
either. It's insulting and factually inaccurate to use flags in most cases.

For example a British Flag "representing English" is insulting to
Australians, Canadians, Americans, New Zealanders, and many others whose
official language is (amongst others) English;

It's also factually inaccurate unless the author means that the site is
available in English, Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Cornish, and Lowland
Scots. Which I very much doubt :)

--
Dylan Parry
http://electricfreedom.org | http://webpageworkshop.co.uk

The opinions stated above are not necessarily representative of
those of my cats. All opinions expressed are entirely your own.
 
C

Chaddy2222

Dylan Parry said:
Karl Groves wrote:
Having observed disabled people actually using sites [...]

That statement makes it all the more valid. IMHO, the only way you can
say for sure which is best is by observing /real-life/ users and how
they cope (or not) with each technique. Obviously, in your case you
have done! No amount of theorising can ever make up for proper
observation in something as practical as accessibility.
Cheers, Karl - you've been v. helpful in clearing my thoughts

Thanks for the kind words.

Watching people interact with sites is a major eye opener for me. I
enjoy every opportunity to go into the lab and act as an observer during
usability studies.

Earlier this year, I had the opportunity to go into the Technology
Center at the NFB headquarters in Baltimore MD and watched blind users
interact with web sites. They have this incredible room, probably 25
feet wide and 100 feet long filled with an amazing array of different
assistive devices.

One of the things you hear a lot in discussions of usability is how
people will "scan" a page looking for important phrases and keywords
rather than reading it word for word. Amazingly, I noticed this
happening with blind users as well. They would land on a page and
immediately begin tabbing, listening for link text to take them where
they wanted to go. Trouble was, as the screenreader was in the middle
of reading one link, they'd be tabbing to another. It was not unlike
someone holding the remote control's "channel-up" button down and was
kind of unsettling (because I could see them repeatedly skipping past
the link they were seeking).

Most users of screen readers will be able to go into summary mode and
also be able to generate a list of links. It is vitally important (even
more than a skip link, IMO) to create pages with an effective use of
headings and also with intelligently labelled links. No two links
should be labelled the same unless they go to the same destination and
for &diety; sake don't use "click here" or "more" or things like that.
I agree with this.
In fact Jaws has a function where by you press insert+F7 and you get a
list of links on the page.
You can also download demo software of Jaws and other products from
the Freedom Scientific website (which would be good for testing).
Oh yeah and while I think of it the mith about products such as Jaws
reading off the screen is wrong!. They read the HTML and the aural CSS
(although I have not really played with that as much) but you can turn
off the monitor and later versions of JFW (well probly from about
version 4 at least read the source code.
 
D

David Mark

Karl Groves wrote:
Having observed disabled people actually using sites
[...]
That statement makes it all the more valid. IMHO, the only way you can
say for sure which is best is by observing /real-life/ users and how
they cope (or not) with each technique. Obviously, in your case you
have done! No amount of theorising can ever make up for proper
observation in something as practical as accessibility.
Cheers, Karl - you've been v. helpful in clearing my thoughts
Thanks for the kind words.
Watching people interact with sites is a major eye opener for me. I
enjoy every opportunity to go into the lab and act as an observer during
usability studies.
Earlier this year, I had the opportunity to go into the Technology
Center at the NFB headquarters in Baltimore MD and watched blind users
interact with web sites. They have this incredible room, probably 25
feet wide and 100 feet long filled with an amazing array of different
assistive devices.
One of the things you hear a lot in discussions of usability is how
people will "scan" a page looking for important phrases and keywords
rather than reading it word for word. Amazingly, I noticed this
happening with blind users as well. They would land on a page and
immediately begin tabbing, listening for link text to take them where
they wanted to go. Trouble was, as the screenreader was in the middle
of reading one link, they'd be tabbing to another. It was not unlike
someone holding the remote control's "channel-up" button down and was
kind of unsettling (because I could see them repeatedly skipping past
the link they were seeking).
Most users of screen readers will be able to go into summary mode and
also be able to generate a list of links. It is vitally important (even
more than a skip link, IMO) to create pages with an effective use of
headings and also with intelligently labelled links. No two links
should be labelled the same unless they go to the same destination and
for &diety; sake don't use "click here" or "more" or things like that.

I agree with this.
In fact Jaws has a function where by you press insert+F7 and you get a
list of links on the page.
You can also download demo software of Jaws and other products from
the Freedom Scientific website (which would be good for testing).
Oh yeah and while I think of it the mith about products such as Jaws
reading off the screen is wrong!. They read the HTML and the aural CSS

It is not a myth. Most screen readers work in conjunction with a
browser and read what is displayed. This is why screen style sheets
and JavaScript get in their way. And most do not support aural style
sheets. Aural browsers are another story.
 
C

Chaddy2222

Karl Groves wrote:
Having observed disabled people actually using sites
[...]
That statement makes it all the more valid. IMHO, the only way you can
say for sure which is best is by observing /real-life/ users and how
they cope (or not) with each technique. Obviously, in your case you
have done! No amount of theorising can ever make up for proper
observation in something as practical as accessibility.
Cheers, Karl - you've been v. helpful in clearing my thoughts
Thanks for the kind words.
Watching people interact with sites is a major eye opener for me. I
enjoy every opportunity to go into the lab and act as an observer during
usability studies.
Earlier this year, I had the opportunity to go into the Technology
Center at the NFB headquarters in Baltimore MD and watched blind users
interact with web sites. They have this incredible room, probably 25
feet wide and 100 feet long filled with an amazing array of different
assistive devices.
One of the things you hear a lot in discussions of usability is how
people will "scan" a page looking for important phrases and keywords
rather than reading it word for word. Amazingly, I noticed this
happening with blind users as well. They would land on a page and
immediately begin tabbing, listening for link text to take them where
they wanted to go. Trouble was, as the screenreader was in the middle
of reading one link, they'd be tabbing to another. It was not unlike
someone holding the remote control's "channel-up" button down and was
kind of unsettling (because I could see them repeatedly skipping past
the link they were seeking).
Most users of screen readers will be able to go into summary mode and
also be able to generate a list of links. It is vitally important (even
more than a skip link, IMO) to create pages with an effective use of
headings and also with intelligently labelled links. No two links
should be labelled the same unless they go to the same destination and
for &diety; sake don't use "click here" or "more" or things like that.
I agree with this.
In fact Jaws has a function where by you press insert+F7 and you get a
list of links on the page.
You can also download demo software of Jaws and other products from
the Freedom Scientific website (which would be good for testing).
Oh yeah and while I think of it the mith about products such as Jaws
reading off the screen is wrong!. They read the HTML and the aural CSS

It is not a myth. Most screen readers work in conjunction with a
browser Yes, I am aware of that.
read what is displayed. This is why screen style sheets
and JavaScript get in their way. And most do not support aural style
sheets. Aural browsers are another story.- Hide quoted text -
Well, Jaws does support Aurel CSS and the screen stylesheet has no
affect on the screen reader (although some JavaScript can cause
problems).
Download a copy of Jaws from, http://www.freedomscientific.com and
test it out for yourself, as it's safe to say that you'be never used a
decent screenreader before, I use Jaws on a daily bayses and have used
Window Eyes before as well, both are similar. Although I think Jaws is
better for web related stuff.
 
A

andrew

[...]
Well, Jaws does support Aurel CSS and the screen stylesheet has no
affect on the screen reader (although some JavaScript can cause
problems).
Download a copy of Jaws from, http://www.freedomscientific.com and
test it out for yourself, as it's safe to say that you'be never used a
decent screenreader before, I use Jaws on a daily bayses and have used
Window Eyes before as well, both are similar. Although I think Jaws is
better for web related stuff.

Windows only? What do the Mac / Linux people use?

Andrew
 

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