Need help choosing a C++ development tool set - TIA for responses :)

Discussion in 'C++' started by Jed, Oct 1, 2005.

  1. Jed

    Jed Guest

    Hello to all!


    I have a couple of projects I intend starting on, and was wondering if
    someone here could make a suggestion for a good compiler and development
    environment.

    My goals are as follows:

    1. Develop the project code on XP.
    2. Develop the project to run on Linux, XP, and 98SE/WinME.
    (Later for porting to MacOS)
    3. Develop the project to have a "common look and feel" between
    platforms.

    My requirements are as follows:
    1. I need a compiler and development environment that is free and
    unrestrictive with respect to liscensing and royalties.

    2. I need graphics tool kit that is cross platform, and also free.

    3. I also want to be able to target multiple OSes for the same processor
    type.

    Any advice is welcome. Primarily, I don't have the income to purchase
    tools. And I want a development tool set that isn't tied to Microsoft's
    OS, or their frameworks. I don't understand their liscensing and am
    pretty sure their software comes with a bunch of restrictions I don't
    want to have to deal with.

    I've been doing some research, and currently have downloaded Mars,
    Watcom, and am trying to figure out what I need to download MinGW.

    I would like to use the Gnome toolkit, but haven't been able to figure
    out if it works with windows. My primary development platform is
    Windows, but I am going to set up a Linux Box specifically for
    simultaneous development and testing.

    The projects I want to develop I will be placing (another thing I will
    need advice on) in the open source community. At least I hope to. The
    projects will be "beg-ware" in the hopes of turning a buck. They will
    also serve to provide me with tools that I can use.

    I don't plan on doing DOTNET. I know it's the hot thing, but I have
    recently developed mis-givings about it.

    Thanks for any help.

    Peace,

    Jed
     
    Jed, Oct 1, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Jed wrote:
    > I have a couple of projects I intend starting on, and was wondering if
    > someone here could make a suggestion for a good compiler and
    > development environment.
    >
    > My goals are as follows:
    >
    > 1. Develop the project code on XP.


    Visual C++ Professional.

    > 2. Develop the project to run on Linux, XP, and 98SE/WinME.
    > (Later for porting to MacOS)


    Well, on Linux, with some porting, you can use g++ to compile. At
    this point in time both compilers are quite decent (and on par as
    to standard compliance, I'd say).

    > 3. Develop the project to have a "common look and feel" between
    > platforms.


    I would recommend against it. It is better to have the look and
    feel common between applications on the same platform than between
    platforms. Or do you foresee users working in your application on
    more than one platform within a couple of days? Even then, it is
    easier to look at something on Windows that looks like Windows, and
    not like Aqua or Motif (and vice versa).

    > My requirements are as follows:
    > 1. I need a compiler and development environment that is free and
    > unrestrictive with respect to liscensing and royalties.


    Microsoft isn't free, but it's not very expensive. You can also use
    MinGW, and use Dev-C++, but it pales in comparison (or maybe I am
    just too used to VC++).

    > 2. I need graphics tool kit that is cross platform, and also free.


    Qt is free for non-commercial use. If you intend to sell your stuff,
    though, you need to get a commercial license from them. But it is
    worth every penny.

    > 3. I also want to be able to target multiple OSes for the same
    > processor type.


    How would that matter? Are you going to program in Assembly?

    > Any advice is welcome. Primarily, I don't have the income to purchase
    > tools. And I want a development tool set that isn't tied to
    > Microsoft's OS, or their frameworks. I don't understand their
    > liscensing and am pretty sure their software comes with a bunch of
    > restrictions I don't want to have to deal with.


    There is nothing overly restrictive there. And if you don't have
    any money now, borrow. A good set of tools is important.

    > I've been doing some research, and currently have downloaded Mars,
    > Watcom, and am trying to figure out what I need to download MinGW.
    >
    > I would like to use the Gnome toolkit, but haven't been able to figure
    > out if it works with windows. My primary development platform is
    > Windows, but I am going to set up a Linux Box specifically for
    > simultaneous development and testing.


    Get Qt. You're not going to regret it.

    > The projects I want to develop I will be placing (another thing I will
    > need advice on) in the open source community. At least I hope to.


    Well, take a look at SourceForge (is that what it's called?), talk to
    them, see how (and with what) they program.

    > The projects will be "beg-ware" in the hopes of turning a buck. They
    > will also serve to provide me with tools that I can use.


    Well, think of it. You cannot start delivering pizzas on a bicycle,
    hoping to earn some day enough money to buy a car. Your pizzas will
    get so cold you'll have to pay your customers to eat them. You just
    need to buy a car to get around and deliver on time.

    > I don't plan on doing DOTNET. I know it's the hot thing, but I have
    > recently developed mis-givings about it.


    You don't have to do anything DOTNET, but you can still use MS tools,
    they are among the best in the biz when it comes to development in C++
    on Windows.

    V
     
    Victor Bazarov, Oct 1, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:21:06 -0400, "Victor Bazarov" <>
    wrote:

    >Microsoft isn't free, but it's not very expensive. You can also use
    >MinGW, and use Dev-C++, but it pales in comparison (or maybe I am
    >just too used to VC++).


    Lookie here:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/

    You don't get a debugger though.

    -dr
     
    Dave Rahardja, Oct 1, 2005
    #3
  4. On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 05:35:35 GMT, Dave Rahardja <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:21:06 -0400, "Victor Bazarov" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Microsoft isn't free, but it's not very expensive. You can also use
    >>MinGW, and use Dev-C++, but it pales in comparison (or maybe I am
    >>just too used to VC++).

    >
    >Lookie here:
    >
    >http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/
    >
    >You don't get a debugger though.


    And the only CRT libs (C runtime library) are static. You have to buy
    Visual Studio for the DLL import libraries for the CRT. It's not
    important for small projects, academic work, etc., but for large
    projects, it's a real show-stopper.

    --
    Bob Hairgrove
     
    Bob Hairgrove, Oct 1, 2005
    #4
  5. EventHelix.com, Oct 1, 2005
    #5
  6. Jed

    Jed Guest

    "Victor Bazarov" <> wrote in
    news::

    > Jed wrote:

    ....
    >
    > Visual C++ Professional.
    >
    > Well, on Linux, with some porting, you can use g++ to compile. At
    > this point in time both compilers are quite decent (and on par as
    > to standard compliance, I'd say).
    >

    I was wondering if g++ was a C++ compiler. Hummm... I won't rule VC++
    out. But, it has some quirks (at least when I was attempting to learn to
    use it a few years ago [VC++ 6 educational version].
    ....
    >
    > I would recommend against it. It is better to have the look and
    > feel common between applications on the same platform than between
    > platforms. Or do you foresee users working in your application on
    > more than one platform within a couple of days? Even then, it is
    > easier to look at something on Windows that looks like Windows, and
    > not like Aqua or Motif (and vice versa).
    >

    Good point. Thank you! :)

    Ultimately, I want to develop using a common graphics tool kit so I can
    minimize the issues when porting from Win to Linux, and ultimately beyond.
    ....
    >
    > Microsoft isn't free, but it's not very expensive. You can also use
    > MinGW, and use Dev-C++, but it pales in comparison (or maybe I am
    > just too used to VC++).
    >
    >> 2. I need graphics tool kit that is cross platform, and also free.

    >
    > Qt is free for non-commercial use. If you intend to sell your stuff,
    > though, you need to get a commercial license from them. But it is
    > worth every penny.
    >


    Thanks I'll look into it. Its been a while since I've looked at these
    things, and I forgot about Trolltech.

    >> 3. I also want to be able to target multiple OSes for the same
    >> processor type.

    >
    > How would that matter? Are you going to program in Assembly?

    I may do some "optimization" as I can figure it out, but that's not the
    primary reason. I figure the multiple target approach is better to selling
    an app than writing for one os. So I want to develop a useful app that
    someone who runs Windows, Linux and Mac in the same shop will want. If the
    app is useful (performs some commonly needed function) and works the same
    way over several systems, then I have wider potential revenue streams.

    >

    ....
    >
    > There is nothing overly restrictive there. And if you don't have
    > any money now, borrow. A good set of tools is important.
    >

    I agree with you that good set of tools is important, ergo the question.
    Thank you for the advice, and I am considering it. But let me ask you a
    couple of questions: You recommend VC++. Are you talking the the version
    6 edition, or the .NET addition? And why not Borland C++ Builder? And
    what about g++? Have you used it? You prefer Qt. Have you used Gnome
    Tool Kit? (and is that available for windows?)

    Sorry to ask so many questions but I am trying to make the most economical
    and informed choices I can. And I figure you guys in here have the
    experience.

    ....
    >
    > Well, take a look at SourceForge (is that what it's called?), talk to
    > them, see how (and with what) they program.
    >

    Good Idea!

    >> The projects will be "beg-ware" in the hopes of turning a buck. They
    >> will also serve to provide me with tools that I can use.

    >
    > Well, think of it. You cannot start delivering pizzas on a bicycle,
    > hoping to earn some day enough money to buy a car. Your pizzas will
    > get so cold you'll have to pay your customers to eat them. You just
    > need to buy a car to get around and deliver on time.
    >

    hehe... I used to deliver pizza. Of course I did it in a $50.00 car. So I
    made my money back. hehehe... :)

    >> I don't plan on doing DOTNET. I know it's the hot thing, but I have
    >> recently developed mis-givings about it.

    >
    > You don't have to do anything DOTNET, but you can still use MS tools,
    > they are among the best in the biz when it comes to development in C++
    > on Windows.
    >
    > V

    And can I develop on them cross-platform?

    Thanks for taking the time to respond Victor. I will definitely consider
    the options you've mentioned.

    Peace,

    Jed
     
    Jed, Oct 1, 2005
    #6
  7. Jed

    Jed Guest

    Dave Rahardja <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:21:06 -0400, "Victor Bazarov"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Microsoft isn't free, but it's not very expensive. You can also use
    >>MinGW, and use Dev-C++, but it pales in comparison (or maybe I am
    >>just too used to VC++).

    >
    > Lookie here:
    >
    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/
    >
    > You don't get a debugger though.
    >
    > -dr


    Wow!

    Thanks dude!

    Peace,

    Jed
     
    Jed, Oct 1, 2005
    #7
  8. Jed

    Jed Guest

    Bob Hairgrove <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 05:35:35 GMT, Dave Rahardja <> wrote:
    >

    ....
    >>You don't get a debugger though.

    >
    > And the only CRT libs (C runtime library) are static. You have to buy
    > Visual Studio for the DLL import libraries for the CRT. It's not
    > important for small projects, academic work, etc., but for large
    > projects, it's a real show-stopper.
    >
    > --
    > Bob Hairgrove
    >


    To clarify: I intend to develop the bulk of my application processing
    code in standard C++. I want a cross-platform graphics toolkit that I
    can develop the application's output in. Some of the apps will not need
    printing capability.

    Can I do this with VC++ (the version mentioned above)?

    Peace,

    Jed
     
    Jed, Oct 1, 2005
    #8
  9. Jed

    Jed Guest

    "EventHelix.com" <> wrote in
    news::

    > One option would be to use VC++ for development.
    >
    > A good cross platform GUI solution is wxWindows:
    >
    > http://www.wxwindows.org/
    >
    > --
    > EventStudio System Designer 2.5 - http://www.EventHelix.com/EventStudio
    > Sequence Diagram Based System Design and Object Modeling Tool
    >


    Wow... thanks man!

    Just went to the link and looked at it. Very cool...

    I take it that it is not free? Not seeing anything about that anywhere on
    their site..

    Thanks!

    Peace,

    Jed
     
    Jed, Oct 1, 2005
    #9
  10. Jed

    Duane Hebert Guest

    "Jed" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns96E26735D87ADXns96DB93B27837jedik@207.217.125.201...

    > I take it that it is not free? Not seeing anything about that anywhere on
    > their site..


    With Qt4 Trolltech has released an open source version for
    Windows, as well as Linux. I think the windows version only
    runs with Cygwin though. It's a good product, although a bit
    expensive for the commercial version if you're a single
    developer.
     
    Duane Hebert, Oct 1, 2005
    #10
  11. Jed wrote:
    > "Victor Bazarov" <> wrote in
    > news::
    > [...] Hummm... I won't rule
    > VC++ out. But, it has some quirks (at least when I was attempting to
    > learn to use it a few years ago [VC++ 6 educational version].


    Oh, forget VC++ 6. It's older than my car (and that one has 100K miles
    on it already), and definitely not worth using for any serious project
    unless you have to (like you have libraries that don't work with later
    versions of VC++). Get 7.1 or 8.0 (when it comes out later this year).

    > ...
    > I agree with you that good set of tools is important, ergo the
    > question. Thank you for the advice, and I am considering it. But let
    > me ask you a couple of questions: You recommend VC++. Are you
    > talking the the version 6 edition, or the .NET addition?


    I cannot recommend you version 6 simply because to get it from MS you'd
    need to get v7.1 first, and that's what you really should be using. If
    you extend your contemplation for a month or two, v8.0 will be out and
    you should get that instead.

    > And why not
    > Borland C++ Builder?


    I can't recommend it because it's been a while since I used it and even
    then it fell short of my expectations of it.

    > And what about g++?


    Having to do everything manually is a chore, although it would help you
    keeping the projects in synch across platforms. VC++ is a system that
    helps you organise your projects easier.

    > Have you used it?


    Not on Windows, I haven't.

    > You
    > prefer Qt.


    It's one of the most widely used toolkit in the industry.

    > Have you used Gnome Tool Kit? (and is that available for
    > windows?)


    I don't know whether it's available on Windows, and it might not be.
    And, no, I haven't used it.

    > Sorry to ask so many questions but I am trying to make the most
    > economical and informed choices I can. And I figure you guys in here
    > have the experience.


    Don't dismiss newsgroups where they talk about operating systems as
    another good source of information. This after all is a _language_
    newsgroup, and not really a software development newsgroup. Try also
    comp.software-eng.

    > ...
    >>> I don't plan on doing DOTNET. I know it's the hot thing, but I have
    >>> recently developed mis-givings about it.

    >>
    >> You don't have to do anything DOTNET, but you can still use MS tools,
    >> they are among the best in the biz when it comes to development in
    >> C++ on Windows.
    >>
    >> V

    > And can I develop on them cross-platform?


    Sure. That's what I do. And that's what my colleagues do. I do it
    on Windows, they do it on Linux or HP-UX or...

    V
     
    Victor Bazarov, Oct 1, 2005
    #11
  12. Jed wrote:
    > Dave Rahardja <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    >> On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:21:06 -0400, "Victor Bazarov"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Microsoft isn't free, but it's not very expensive. You can also use
    >>> MinGW, and use Dev-C++, but it pales in comparison (or maybe I am
    >>> just too used to VC++).

    >>
    >> Lookie here:
    >>
    >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/
    >>
    >> You don't get a debugger though.
    >>
    >> -dr

    >
    > Wow!


    Well, it's free, but absence of a debugger (and the IDE) is a bummer.
    Perhaps I am biased (or spoiled) because I've been using QuickC and
    Visual C++ for more than a decade, and they come with all you need, but
    you gotta buy those amenities. To have a debugger really takes the
    prize. Inserting printf's all over code just to see what's going on
    is not only tedious, it changes the behaviour of the code, and therefore
    you don't get the right picture... Of course you could try using some
    other debugger... If you can find something decent, that is.

    Of course if you can switch from developing on XP to developing under
    Linux, you will have access to tons of free tools.

    V
     
    Victor Bazarov, Oct 1, 2005
    #12
  13. Re: Need help choosing a C++ development tool set - TIA for

    "Duane Hebert" <> writes:

    > "Jed" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns96E26735D87ADXns96DB93B27837jedik@207.217.125.201...
    >
    >> I take it that it is not free? Not seeing anything about that anywhere on
    >> their site..

    >
    > With Qt4 Trolltech has released an open source version for
    > Windows, as well as Linux.


    He was asking about wxWindows, not Qt.

    > I think the windows version only runs with Cygwin though.


    The commercial version of Qt works with VC++.

    > It's a good product, although a bit
    > expensive for the commercial version if you're a single
    > developer.


    A bit? According to Trolltech's pricing page, a single-user license for
    developing a cross-platform (Windows/Linux/Mac) app begins at $3560USD -
    and that's *without* the GUI library. If you want a GUI, it's $3980. If
    you want OpenGL, database access, or XML, the price becomes $6600.

    Qt is definitely a good product - I'd use it for a cross-platform open
    source project in a heartbeat. But the pricing for the commercial version
    is way out of range for a single developer, or even a small company.

    sherm--

    --
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
    Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
     
    Sherm Pendley, Oct 1, 2005
    #13
  14. Re: Need help choosing a C++ development tool set - TIA for

    Jed <> writes:

    > "EventHelix.com" <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    >> A good cross platform GUI solution is wxWindows:
    >>
    >> http://www.wxwindows.org/
    >>

    > Just went to the link and looked at it. Very cool...
    >
    > I take it that it is not free? Not seeing anything about that anywhere on
    > their site..


    There's a licensing page in the "Documentation" section. It's basically a
    slightly modified LGPL license.

    sherm--

    --
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
    Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
     
    Sherm Pendley, Oct 1, 2005
    #14
  15. "Jed" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns96E26735D87ADXns96DB93B27837jedik@207.217.125.201...
    > "EventHelix.com" <> wrote in
    > news::
    > > A good cross platform GUI solution is wxWindows:
    > >
    > > http://www.wxwindows.org/

    >
    > Wow... thanks man!


    wxWindows also specifically supports the Digital Mars C++ compiler.

    -Walter Bright
    www.digitalmars.com C, C++, D programming language compilers
     
    Walter Bright, Oct 1, 2005
    #15
  16. Jed

    BobR Guest

    Jed wrote in message ...
    >Bob Hairgrove <> wrote in
    >> On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 05:35:35 GMT, Dave Rahardja <> wrote:

    >...
    >>>You don't get a debugger though.

    >>
    >> And the only CRT libs (C runtime library) are static. You have to buy
    >> Visual Studio for the DLL import libraries for the CRT. It's not
    >> important for small projects, academic work, etc., but for large
    >> projects, it's a real show-stopper.
    >> --
    >> Bob Hairgrove
    >>

    >
    >To clarify: I intend to develop the bulk of my application processing
    >code in standard C++. I want a cross-platform graphics toolkit that I
    >can develop the application's output in. Some of the apps will not need
    >printing capability.


    You want GCC (MinGW on window$) and wxWidgets.

    Dev-C++ IDE: http://www.bloodshed.net/ (default==MinGW GCC)
    [ ...and it comes with a debugger, gdb, and library. ]

    wxWidgets URL: http://www.wxwidgets.org
    [ both cost == $(download) ]

    >
    >Can I do this with VC++ (the version mentioned above)?
    >Peace,
    >Jed


    Will VC++ run on a GNU/Linux OS? Or a Mac OS?

    [see my post in *.moderated, when it shows up tomorrow.<G>]
    --
    Bob R
    POVrookie
    --
    MinGW (GNU compiler): http://www.mingw.org/
    MinGWStudio http://www.parinyasoft.com/
    V IDE & V GUI: http://www.objectcentral.com/
    Quincy IDE 2005 URL: http://pipou.net/down/Quincy2005Project.zip
    POVray: http://www.povray.org/
    alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq:
    http://www.comeaucomputing.com/learn/faq/
     
    BobR, Oct 2, 2005
    #16
  17. Re: Need help choosing a C++ development tool set - TIA for

    "BobR" <> writes:

    > Will VC++ run on a GNU/Linux OS? Or a Mac OS?


    Obviously not, but who cares? Use VC++ on Windows, Xcode on Mac OS X, and
    whatever on Linux.

    sherm--

    --
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
    Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
     
    Sherm Pendley, Oct 2, 2005
    #17
  18. Jed

    BobR Guest

    Re: Need help choosing a C++ development tool set - TIA forresponses :)

    Sherm Pendley wrote in message ...
    >"BobR" <> writes:
    >
    >> Will VC++ run on a GNU/Linux OS? Or a Mac OS?

    >
    >Obviously not, but who cares?


    Someone who is developing on all three systems!

    > Use VC++ on Windows, Xcode on Mac OS X, and
    >whatever on Linux.
    >--
    >sherm--


    Or, GCC for all. No $. Why learn a new compiler for each system?

    (...and that's 'GNU/Linux' or 'GNU'. 'Linux' is a kernel for the 'GNU'
    OS.<G>)
    www.gnu.org

    The choice is yours. Please make it an *informed* choice. :-}
    [ Note: It's not 'either/or', you can put *all* the compilers on your
    machine. ]
    --
    Bob R
    POVrookie
     
    BobR, Oct 2, 2005
    #18
  19. Jed

    Mirek Fidler Guest

    Re: Need help choosing a C++ development tool set - TIA for responses

    Jed wrote:
    > Hello to all!
    >
    >
    > I have a couple of projects I intend starting on, and was wondering if
    > someone here could make a suggestion for a good compiler and development
    > environment.
    >
    > My goals are as follows:
    >
    > 1. Develop the project code on XP.
    > 2. Develop the project to run on Linux, XP, and 98SE/WinME.
    > (Later for porting to MacOS)
    > 3. Develop the project to have a "common look and feel" between
    > platforms.
    >
    > My requirements are as follows:
    > 1. I need a compiler and development environment that is free and
    > unrestrictive with respect to liscensing and royalties.
    >
    > 2. I need graphics tool kit that is cross platform, and also free.
    >
    > 3. I also want to be able to target multiple OSes for the same processor
    > type.


    See http://upp.sf.net

    Mirek
     
    Mirek Fidler, Oct 2, 2005
    #19
  20. Re: Need help choosing a C++ development tool set - TIA

    "BobR" <> writes:

    > Sherm Pendley wrote in message ...


    >> Use VC++ on Windows, Xcode on Mac OS X, and
    >>whatever on Linux.


    > Or, GCC for all. No $.


    VC++'s "Express" editions are $cheap - the final release will be priced at
    $49US. And the current beta releases are $free. Xcode is a free download,
    and uses GCC under the hood anyway.

    > Why learn a new compiler for each system?


    Why not? It's hardly rocket science, and by any objective measure I'm aware
    of, VC++ produces better code than GCC - albeit only for the one platform for
    which it produces any code at all. ;-\.

    > The choice is yours. Please make it an *informed* choice. :-}


    Exactly. Instead of choosing out of a misguided religious attachment to a
    single platform, take some time to inform yourself as to the relative merits
    of each. Then for each platform choose the compiler that produces the best
    results for it.

    sherm--

    --
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
    Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
     
    Sherm Pendley, Oct 2, 2005
    #20
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