Need help Head Hurts thinking too much

S

spud

Hi all
Have a web page with Frames
Head(no scrolling) left20% and right80% panels...
Left has buttons when i click onto a ref i like it to go into main and the
left frame remain
ie : <a href="about.html">About Me...</a><br>
what is the rest of the ref for this...
sorry if it is a stupid question but someone might be able to help
thanxs in advance
spud
 
M

Matthias Gutfeldt

spud said:
Hi all
Have a web page with Frames

That explains the headaches :).

Left has buttons when i click onto a ref i like it to go into main and the
left frame remain
ie : <a href="about.html">About Me...</a><br>
what is the rest of the ref for this...

<a href="about.html" target="main">About me...</a>

This assumes that the main frame is named 'main', of course. It's
explained quite well in the specification:
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html#target-info>


Matthias
 
D

Duende

While sitting in a puddle Leonard Blaisdell scribbled in the mud:
This assumes that frames aren't evil. And you know they are ;-)

leo

frames are your friends. :)
 
M

Matthias Gutfeldt

Leonard said:
This assumes that frames aren't evil. And you know they are ;-)

As far as hurting heads are concerned, frames beat banging your head
against the wall.


Matthias
 
L

Leonard Blaisdell

Matthias Gutfeldt said:
As far as hurting heads are concerned, frames beat banging your head
against the wall.

In all humbleness, where are they beneficial on the WWW? I switched my
sites as soon as an alternative was available. I had to unlearn the damned
things.

leo
 
L

Leonard Blaisdell

Wouldn't have been easier to just forget them? :eek:)

Oh, sure! Use those fancy old-fashioned words like "forget" when the
perfectly fashionable yet ridiculous word like "unlearn" would have done
less well. Gotta be more careful in this dangerous environment.

leo
 
S

Steve R.

Leonard Blaisdell wrote in message ...
In all humbleness, where are they (Frames) beneficial on the WWW?

(1) When you are creating a website and the content pages are always
changing or being added-to it's simple just to add or change just one item
in the 'Menu' frame to link to the newly added or changed pages.

(2) Some people like to see a constant part of the website remaining on a
monitor as the next page loads, rather than having a blank white screen for
however many seconds it takes for something to load. It's nice having the
continuity.

As an analogy, to me *well-constructed* frames are like the spine on a book
you are reading holding the pages together as you turn to the next page,
rather than reading one piece of paper, then having it snatched from you
and another piece of paper being put in front of you 15 seconds or so
later.

I do agree that many framed websites have the 'menu' or 'header' frames too
large, but that's not a good reason to slag off *all* framed websites.
 
P

PeterMcC

Leonard Blaisdell wrote in message ...

(1) When you are creating a website and the content pages are always
changing or being added-to it's simple just to add or change just one
item in the 'Menu' frame to link to the newly added or changed pages.

(2) Some people like to see a constant part of the website remaining
on a monitor as the next page loads, rather than having a blank white
screen for however many seconds it takes for something to load. It's
nice having the continuity.

As an analogy, to me *well-constructed* frames are like the spine on
a book you are reading holding the pages together as you turn to the
next page, rather than reading one piece of paper, then having it
snatched from you and another piece of paper being put in front of
you 15 seconds or so later.

I do agree that many framed websites have the 'menu' or 'header'
frames too large, but that's not a good reason to slag off *all*
framed websites.

I couldn't be absolute about there never being a case for frames but, as
regards the above, SSI will deal with (1) and, because the ever-present bit
is cached after the first page is viewed, SSI will ameliorate the problem in
(2) - as a bonus, all the problems associated with frames are avoided.
 
E

Eric Bohlman

(e-mail address removed) (Leonard Blaisdell) wrote in (e-mail address removed):
Oh, sure! Use those fancy old-fashioned words like "forget" when the
perfectly fashionable yet ridiculous word like "unlearn" would have done
less well. Gotta be more careful in this dangerous environment.

To be honest, there really is a difference between the two terms. If
you've already learned a particular way of accomplishing a particular task
(i.e. built a mental model of it), it can be *very* hard to adapt yourself
to a completely new way of doing it, because you keep mentally
"translating" the new way into the old way. "Unlearning" is really a form
of "breaking a habit" which is quite a bit more difficult in practice than
simply putting something out of your mind.

A classic example relevant here would be going from table-based layouts to
CSS-based layouts. If you try to learn CSS in terms of "what table markup
does this property correspond to?" you're going to struggle badly. I'm
convinced that CSS layout is *much* easier to learn if you haven't already
picked up bad habits.
 
L

Leonard Blaisdell

Eric Bohlman said:
(e-mail address removed) (Leonard Blaisdell) wrote in (e-mail address removed):
To be honest, there really is a difference between the two terms.

A classic example relevant here would be going from table-based layouts to
CSS-based layouts. If you try to learn CSS in terms of "what table markup
does this property correspond to?" you're going to struggle badly. I'm
convinced that CSS layout is *much* easier to learn if you haven't already
picked up bad habits.

Point taken.

leo
 
A

Augustus

Leonard Blaisdell said:
In all humbleness, where are they beneficial on the WWW? I switched my
sites as soon as an alternative was available. I had to unlearn the damned
things.

I have admin pages that use frames

In one, a restaurant ordering system, the owner/franchisee can log in to the
admin section and the page is broken up in to 3 frames (one big one of the
left and two smaller ones on the right, one above the other)

The big frame is the one they work in: setting prices/inventory,
adding/removing/editing announcements and specials, etc.
In the right top frame they see the stats of all their locations, number of
orders, number of items and value of orders... this panel refreshes each
minute
In the right lower frame, they see the order tracking numbers appear when
orders are placed, they can click on the order and its full details will
appear in the big frame... this also refreshes when the frame above it
refreshes

I have the same thing for a courier system... a main panel to work in and
view/print orders... and two frames that refresh regularily so they can
track orders and where the packages/envelopes are at (as the driver updates
during delivery)

In both these cases I needed to use frames because:
- the main window scrolls and the stats and order information doesn't: it is
always there on the screen and visible
- the stats or orders info panels refresh, the main window doesn't.
Important if somebody is working with prices or their menu system... or
viewing/printing a delivery request... if the whole page kept refreshing
then they would lose their data
 
D

Duende

While sitting in a puddle Eric Bohlman scribbled in the mud:
To be honest, there really is a difference between the two terms.

Not for me. It only takes 1 good nights sleep to forget everything. Every
morning I have to start all over from scratch. :(
 
M

Mark Parnell

I do agree that many framed websites have the 'menu' or 'header' frames too
large, but that's not a good reason to slag off *all* framed websites.

That's not why we don't like frames. They cause all sorts of problems,
whatever size they may be. Read the oft-posted links for more details.
 

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