.Net packaging/wrapper application?

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by jim, Dec 27, 2007.

  1. jim

    jim Guest

    I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and any
    needed .Net parts) into a single exe.

    I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your exes)
    and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But, I'd like
    something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.

    This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as a
    single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application suite. It
    would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require the end user
    to have .Net installed or to install the application. It also avoids DLL
    and .Net Version Hell.

    If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should be
    it.

    If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require per
    copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.

    Thanks!

    jim
    jim, Dec 27, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Windows Installer:

    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2kt85ked.aspx
    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa372866.aspx

    --
    HTH,

    Kevin Spencer
    Chicken Salad Surgeon
    Microsoft MVP

    "jim" <> wrote in message
    news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and any
    >needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >
    > I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your
    > exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But, I'd
    > like something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.
    >
    > This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as
    > a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application suite.
    > It would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require the end
    > user to have .Net installed or to install the application. It also avoids
    > DLL and .Net Version Hell.
    >
    > If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should
    > be it.
    >
    > If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require
    > per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > jim
    >
    Kevin Spencer, Dec 27, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Do you have Visual Studio 2005? If so why not make a windows application?




    "jim" <> wrote in message
    news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and any
    >needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >
    > I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your
    > exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But, I'd
    > like something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.
    >
    > This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as
    > a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application suite.
    > It would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require the end
    > user to have .Net installed or to install the application. It also avoids
    > DLL and .Net Version Hell.
    >
    > If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should
    > be it.
    >
    > If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require
    > per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > jim
    >
    ThatsIT.net.au, Dec 27, 2007
    #3
  4. jim

    jim Guest

    Kevin,

    While I certainly appreciate your willingness to peck out those URLs, they
    are in no way whatsoever related to the functionality of the applications
    that I mentioned (Thinstall and Xenocode).

    Windows Installer does not wrap the executable and associated files into a
    single executable. Windows Installer does not allow a user to run a .Net
    application without having .Net installed. Windows Installer does not
    obfuscate the executable contents. Windows Installer does not allow you to
    create no-install applications that will run without being "installed" on
    the end users PC (simply copy the created executable and run - no .Net
    install & no application install needed).

    Bless your pointed little head....but, what I need is so far advanced from
    Windows Installer its not even funny.

    Just in case you decide to read about the referenced applications BEFORE you
    post, you can do so at http://www.thinstall.com/ and
    http://www.xenocode.com/.

    jim

    "Kevin Spencer" <> wrote in message
    news:elOyO%...
    > Windows Installer:
    >
    > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2kt85ked.aspx
    > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa372866.aspx
    >
    > --
    > HTH,
    >
    > Kevin Spencer
    > Chicken Salad Surgeon
    > Microsoft MVP
    >
    > "jim" <> wrote in message
    > news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >>I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and
    >>any needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >>
    >> I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your
    >> exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But,
    >> I'd like something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.
    >>
    >> This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as
    >> a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application
    >> suite. It would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require
    >> the end user to have .Net installed or to install the application. It
    >> also avoids DLL and .Net Version Hell.
    >>
    >> If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should
    >> be it.
    >>
    >> If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require
    >> per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >>
    >> Thanks!
    >>
    >> jim
    >>

    >
    >
    jim, Dec 27, 2007
    #4
  5. jim

    jim Guest

    For several reasons.....

    1) An application is just the first step. I plan on coding .Net
    applications. The request has to do with distribution of those
    applications - not coding the applications.

    2) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from a single
    EXE - no application need be installed.

    3) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run without .Net
    installed.

    4) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode do not suffer from DLL or
    ..Net version hell.

    5) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode are smaller than .Net +
    Application installs.

    6) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from a USB drive
    or (if Thinstalled) be streamed over a network with no installation
    whatsoever (not even copying the exe).

    Please read up on Thinstall and Xenocode at http://www.thinstall.com/ and
    http://www.xenocode.com/. Once you do, you too will wonder just why we
    don't have this functionality in .Net.

    jim

    "ThatsIT.net.au" <me@thatsit> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Do you have Visual Studio 2005? If so why not make a windows application?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "jim" <> wrote in message
    > news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >>I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and
    >>any needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >>
    >> I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your
    >> exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But,
    >> I'd like something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.
    >>
    >> This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as
    >> a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application
    >> suite. It would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require
    >> the end user to have .Net installed or to install the application. It
    >> also avoids DLL and .Net Version Hell.
    >>
    >> If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should
    >> be it.
    >>
    >> If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require
    >> per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >>
    >> Thanks!
    >>
    >> jim
    >>

    >
    jim, Dec 27, 2007
    #5
  6. Hello jim,

    ok, what's from that list cant be done with Windows Installer? :)
    except the point 3 the Windows Installed can do the same things, maybe not
    so silently


    ---
    WBR,
    Michael Nemtsev [.NET/C# MVP] :: blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour

    "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
    miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo


    j> For several reasons.....
    j>
    j> 1) An application is just the first step. I plan on coding .Net
    j> applications. The request has to do with distribution of those
    j> applications - not coding the applications.
    j>
    j> 2) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from a
    j> single EXE - no application need be installed.
    j>
    j> 3) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run without
    j> .Net installed.
    j>
    j> 4) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode do not suffer from
    j> DLL or .Net version hell.
    j>
    j> 5) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode are smaller than
    j> .Net + Application installs.
    j>
    j> 6) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from a USB
    j> drive or (if Thinstalled) be streamed over a network with no
    j> installation whatsoever (not even copying the exe).
    j>
    j> Please read up on Thinstall and Xenocode at http://www.thinstall.com/
    j> and http://www.xenocode.com/. Once you do, you too will wonder just
    j> why we don't have this functionality in .Net.
    j>
    j> jim
    j>
    j> "ThatsIT.net.au" <me@thatsit> wrote in message
    j> news:...
    j>
    >> Do you have Visual Studio 2005? If so why not make a windows
    >> application?
    >>
    >> "jim" <> wrote in message
    >> news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >>
    >>> I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application
    >>> (and any needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >>>
    >>> I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for
    >>> your exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your
    >>> exe). But, I'd like something that is actually affordable for a
    >>> hobbyist programmer.
    >>>
    >>> This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship
    >>> it as a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net
    >>> application suite. It would simplify the shipping & installation and
    >>> not even require the end user to have .Net installed or to install
    >>> the application. It also avoids DLL and .Net Version Hell.
    >>>
    >>> If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies
    >>> should be it.
    >>>
    >>> If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not
    >>> require per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks!
    >>>
    >>> jim
    >>>
    Michael Nemtsev [MVP], Dec 27, 2007
    #6
  7. "jim" wrote:

    > I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and any
    > needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >
    > I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your exes)
    > and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But, I'd like
    > something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.
    >
    > This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as a
    > single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application suite. It
    > would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require the end user
    > to have .Net installed or to install the application. It also avoids DLL
    > and .Net Version Hell.
    >
    > If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should be
    > it.
    >
    > If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require per
    > copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > jim
    >
    >


    I may be missing your goal with this, but, it looks like these tools are
    designed to create something similar to what VMWare does, a distributable
    preconfigured machine. Have you looked at VMWare? If so, does it lack some
    capability you need?
    Family Tree Mike, Dec 27, 2007
    #7
  8. jim

    jim Guest

    Really?

    That's quite interesting. Just how do you cover #4 with Windows Installer?
    Is there a new function that will stop DLLs from being overwritten or that
    will accomodate differences in .Net versions (like when hotfixes are
    installed to patch .Net problems)?

    Or how about #5 (smaller distributions - remember that Windows Installer
    REQUIRES the .Net runtimes be installed if they are not already and that WI
    does not compress the executable like Thinstall and Xenocode).

    As far as #6 is concerned, Windows Installer actively blocks code that would
    access files (as most code that is useful does) if it is run from the
    network or insternet. The Thinstall/Xenocode wrapped apps retain all
    functionality.

    And, (might as well mention it since we are comparing Windows Installer and
    Thinstall/Xenocode) Windows Installer requires administrator privileges to
    do most installs. Using Thinstall (not sure about Xenocode), you don't need
    admin permissions to run the executable (no matter its functionality)
    because nothing is every "installed" on the system (no registry entries
    needed, no install to run). That'd be #7 - for those counting at home.

    jim

    "Michael Nemtsev [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello jim,
    >
    > ok, what's from that list cant be done with Windows Installer? :) except
    > the point 3 the Windows Installed can do the same things, maybe not so
    > silently
    >
    >
    > ---
    > WBR, Michael Nemtsev [.NET/C# MVP] :: blog:
    > http://spaces.live.com/laflour
    > "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
    > miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo
    >
    > j> For several reasons.....
    > j> j> 1) An application is just the first step. I plan on coding .Net
    > j> applications. The request has to do with distribution of those
    > j> applications - not coding the applications.
    > j> j> 2) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from a
    > j> single EXE - no application need be installed.
    > j> j> 3) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run without
    > j> .Net installed.
    > j> j> 4) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode do not suffer from
    > j> DLL or .Net version hell.
    > j> j> 5) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode are smaller than
    > j> .Net + Application installs.
    > j> j> 6) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from a USB
    > j> drive or (if Thinstalled) be streamed over a network with no
    > j> installation whatsoever (not even copying the exe).
    > j> j> Please read up on Thinstall and Xenocode at
    > http://www.thinstall.com/
    > j> and http://www.xenocode.com/. Once you do, you too will wonder just
    > j> why we don't have this functionality in .Net.
    > j> j> jim
    > j> j> "ThatsIT.net.au" <me@thatsit> wrote in message
    > j> news:...
    > j>
    >>> Do you have Visual Studio 2005? If so why not make a windows
    >>> application?
    >>>
    >>> "jim" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >>>
    >>>> I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application
    >>>> (and any needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >>>>
    >>>> I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for
    >>>> your exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your
    >>>> exe). But, I'd like something that is actually affordable for a
    >>>> hobbyist programmer.
    >>>>
    >>>> This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship
    >>>> it as a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net
    >>>> application suite. It would simplify the shipping & installation and
    >>>> not even require the end user to have .Net installed or to install
    >>>> the application. It also avoids DLL and .Net Version Hell.
    >>>>
    >>>> If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies
    >>>> should be it.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not
    >>>> require per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks!
    >>>>
    >>>> jim
    >>>>

    >
    >
    jim, Dec 27, 2007
    #8
  9. jim

    Jeff Gaines Guest

    On 27/12/2007 in message
    <> Michael Nemtsev [MVP]
    wrote:

    >Hello jim,
    >
    >ok, what's from that list cant be done with Windows Installer? :) except
    >the point 3 the Windows Installed can do the same things, maybe not so
    >silently


    Looks to me like Jim is looking for the .NET equivalent of compiling with
    static libraries to produce a single executable. I'll add my vote to his
    wish list :)

    --
    Jeff Gaines
    Jeff Gaines, Dec 27, 2007
    #9
  10. Hi,

    If you are looking from the angle of a hobby, I can suggest you using
    InnoSetup (free) http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php . It is really
    successful.

    If you need further help with using it, I will be looking forward to hear.

    --
    All the best,
    Coskun SUNALI
    MVP ASP/ASP.NET
    http://sunali.com


    "jim" <> wrote in message
    news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and any
    >needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >
    > I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your
    > exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But, I'd
    > like something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.
    >
    > This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as
    > a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application suite.
    > It would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require the end
    > user to have .Net installed or to install the application. It also avoids
    > DLL and .Net Version Hell.
    >
    > If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should
    > be it.
    >
    > If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require
    > per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > jim
    >
    Coskun SUNALI [MVP], Dec 27, 2007
    #10
  11. jim

    jim Guest

    "Family Tree Mike" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    >
    >
    > "jim" wrote:
    >
    >> I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and
    >> any
    >> needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >>
    >> I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your
    >> exes)
    >> and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But, I'd like
    >> something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.
    >>
    >> This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as
    >> a
    >> single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application suite.
    >> It
    >> would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require the end
    >> user
    >> to have .Net installed or to install the application. It also avoids DLL
    >> and .Net Version Hell.
    >>
    >> If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should
    >> be
    >> it.
    >>
    >> If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require
    >> per
    >> copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >>
    >> Thanks!
    >>
    >> jim
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I may be missing your goal with this, but, it looks like these tools are
    > designed to create something similar to what VMWare does, a distributable
    > preconfigured machine. Have you looked at VMWare? If so, does it lack
    > some
    > capability you need?


    VMWare is great. However (if I understand the creation of virtual
    appliances correctly), it carries with it a HUGE overhead because it wraps
    up the entire OS with your virtual appliance. Virtual appliances created
    for/from VMWare also require a license for every copy if you distribute any
    proprietary operating system (like Windows XP, Vista, 2003 Server, etc.) in
    your virtual appliance - that's why virtually every virtual appliance you
    see is done with Linux.

    jim
    jim, Dec 27, 2007
    #11
  12. jim

    jim Guest

    "Jeff Gaines" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 27/12/2007 in message
    > <> Michael Nemtsev [MVP]
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Hello jim,
    >>
    >>ok, what's from that list cant be done with Windows Installer? :) except
    >>the point 3 the Windows Installed can do the same things, maybe not so
    >>silently

    >
    > Looks to me like Jim is looking for the .NET equivalent of compiling with
    > static libraries to produce a single executable. I'll add my vote to his
    > wish list :)
    >
    > --
    > Jeff Gaines


    :)

    jim
    jim, Dec 27, 2007
    #12
  13. jim

    jim Guest

    Wow! A little reading goes a long way people.

    Thinstall and Xenocode are NOT installation applications! They are
    essentially application wrappers that create virtual registry entries and
    virtual directory structures that exist only while the application is
    running. They wrap all files (DLLs, COM controls, etc.) into a single
    executable that can be run with no admin permissions or the alteration of
    the operating system. Thinstall/Xenocode applications do not require the
    installation of the .Net framework to run .Net applications because they
    extract the needed .Net framework libraries and include them in the single,
    wrapped EXE.

    www.thinstall.com

    www.xenocode.com

    Read about them before you post. I'm sure that you'll agree that this is
    something that is missing in .Net studio.

    jim


    "Coskun SUNALI [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi,
    >
    > If you are looking from the angle of a hobby, I can suggest you using
    > InnoSetup (free) http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php . It is really
    > successful.
    >
    > If you need further help with using it, I will be looking forward to hear.
    >
    > --
    > All the best,
    > Coskun SUNALI
    > MVP ASP/ASP.NET
    > http://sunali.com
    >
    >
    > "jim" <> wrote in message
    > news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >>I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and
    >>any needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >>
    >> I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your
    >> exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But,
    >> I'd like something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.
    >>
    >> This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as
    >> a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application
    >> suite. It would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require
    >> the end user to have .Net installed or to install the application. It
    >> also avoids DLL and .Net Version Hell.
    >>
    >> If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should
    >> be it.
    >>
    >> If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require
    >> per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >>
    >> Thanks!
    >>
    >> jim
    >>

    >
    jim, Dec 27, 2007
    #13
  14. Hello jim,

    j> That's quite interesting. Just how do you cover #4 with Windows
    j> Installer? Is there a new function that will stop DLLs from being
    j> overwritten or that will accomodate differences in .Net versions
    j> (like when hotfixes are installed to patch .Net problems)?

    no, it up to u how u are going to disturb this
    I suppose u select the Xenodcode not only for this option?

    j> Or how about #5 (smaller distributions - remember that Windows
    j> Installer REQUIRES the .Net runtimes be installed if they are not
    j> already and that WI does not compress the executable like Thinstall
    j> and Xenocode).

    there are some wrappers (like inno) which wrap WI functionality and provide
    compression

    j> As far as #6 is concerned, Windows Installer actively blocks code
    j> that would access files (as most code that is useful does) if it is
    j> run from the network or insternet. The Thinstall/Xenocode wrapped
    j> apps retain all functionality.

    installer has no relation to assembly trust level - what blocks to run it
    from network
    u need to set the correct trust level

    j> And, (might as well mention it since we are comparing Windows
    j> Installer and Thinstall/Xenocode) Windows Installer requires
    j> administrator privileges to do most installs. Using Thinstall (not
    j> sure about ), you don't need admin permissions to run the
    j> executable (no matter its functionality) because nothing is every
    j> "installed" on the system (no registry entries needed, no install to
    j> run). That'd be #7 - for those counting at home.


    if nothing installed then how it works? :) I assume it installs smth but
    u don't even noted this

    Actually Im against these kind of tools, because it works for the small part
    of winforms application and if you decided to extend your app - provide security,
    CAS and etc u can hardly predict how it affects yout Xenocode wrapper app


    ---
    WBR,
    Michael Nemtsev [.NET/C# MVP] :: blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour

    "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
    miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo

    j>
    j> "Michael Nemtsev [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    j> news:...
    j>
    >> Hello jim,
    >>
    >> ok, what's from that list cant be done with Windows Installer? :)
    >> except the point 3 the Windows Installed can do the same things,
    >> maybe not so silently
    >>
    >> ---
    >> WBR, Michael Nemtsev [.NET/C# MVP] :: blog:
    >> http://spaces.live.com/laflour
    >> "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high
    >> and we
    >> miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo
    >> j> For several reasons.....
    >> j> j> 1) An application is just the first step. I plan on coding
    >> .Net
    >> j> applications. The request has to do with distribution of those
    >> j> applications - not coding the applications.
    >> j> j> 2) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from
    >> a
    >> j> single EXE - no application need be installed.
    >> j> j> 3) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run
    >> without
    >> j> .Net installed.
    >> j> j> 4) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode do not suffer
    >> from
    >> j> DLL or .Net version hell.
    >> j> j> 5) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode are smaller
    >> than
    >> j> .Net + Application installs.
    >> j> j> 6) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from
    >> a USB
    >> j> drive or (if Thinstalled) be streamed over a network with no
    >> j> installation whatsoever (not even copying the exe).
    >> j> j> Please read up on Thinstall and Xenocode at
    >> http://www.thinstall.com/
    >> j> and http://www.xenocode.com/. Once you do, you too will wonder
    >> just
    >> j> why we don't have this functionality in .Net.
    >> j> j> jim
    >> j> j> "ThatsIT.net.au" <me@thatsit> wrote in message
    >> j> news:...
    >> j>
    >>>> Do you have Visual Studio 2005? If so why not make a windows
    >>>> application?
    >>>>
    >>>> "jim" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >>>>> I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application
    >>>>> (and any needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for
    >>>>> your exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your
    >>>>> exe). But, I'd like something that is actually affordable for a
    >>>>> hobbyist programmer.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and
    >>>>> ship it as a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net
    >>>>> application suite. It would simplify the shipping & installation
    >>>>> and not even require the end user to have .Net installed or to
    >>>>> install the application. It also avoids DLL and .Net Version
    >>>>> Hell.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies
    >>>>> should be it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not
    >>>>> require per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Thanks!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> jim
    >>>>>
    Michael Nemtsev [MVP], Dec 27, 2007
    #14
  15. Hello jim,

    j> Read about them before you post. I'm sure that you'll agree that this
    j> is something that is missing in .Net studio
    j>

    why is it important? :)

    ---
    WBR,
    Michael Nemtsev [.NET/C# MVP] :: blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour

    "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
    miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo
    Michael Nemtsev [MVP], Dec 27, 2007
    #15
  16. > Looks to me like Jim is looking for the .NET equivalent of compiling with
    > static libraries to produce a single executable. I'll add my vote to his
    > wish list :)


    Looks to me more that Jim is providing us some spam.

    :)

    Cor
    Cor Ligthert[MVP], Dec 27, 2007
    #16
  17. Hi,




    "jim" <> wrote in message
    news:pEMcj.28228$...
    > Kevin,
    >
    > While I certainly appreciate your willingness to peck out those URLs, they
    > are in no way whatsoever related to the functionality of the applications
    > that I mentioned (Thinstall and Xenocode).


    > Windows Installer does not wrap the executable and associated files into a
    > single executable. Windows Installer does not allow a user to run a .Net
    > application without having .Net installed. Windows Installer does not
    > obfuscate the executable contents. Windows Installer does not allow you
    > to create no-install applications that will run without being "installed"
    > on the end users PC (simply copy the created executable and run - no .Net
    > install & no application install needed).


    Maybe that is why it's soo expensive :)

    Kevin's suggestion is the best you could do with "free" tools.

    You can always pack everything in a single compacted .EXE and do your
    installation like that.

    --
    Ignacio Machin
    http://www.laceupsolutions.com
    Mobile & warehouse Solutions.
    Ignacio Machin \( .NET/ C# MVP \), Dec 27, 2007
    #17
  18. jim

    John Guest

    Hi Jim,

    Microsoft already purchased SoftGrid so I doubt that they
    would purchase Thinstall or Xenocode.

    SoftGrid is not free, however, so I don't think it is a solution
    for a hobbyist. Perhaps in the future they will create a limited
    version that is free of CAL or SA requirements

    J

    "jim" <> wrote in message
    news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application (and any
    >needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >
    > I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for your
    > exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your exe). But, I'd
    > like something that is actually affordable for a hobbyist programmer.
    >
    > This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and ship it as
    > a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net application suite.
    > It would simplify the shipping & installation and not even require the end
    > user to have .Net installed or to install the application. It also avoids
    > DLL and .Net Version Hell.
    >
    > If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies should
    > be it.
    >
    > If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not require
    > per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > jim
    >
    John, Dec 27, 2007
    #18
  19. jim

    jim Guest

    "Michael Nemtsev [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello jim,
    >
    > j> That's quite interesting. Just how do you cover #4 with Windows
    > j> Installer? Is there a new function that will stop DLLs from being
    > j> overwritten or that will accomodate differences in .Net versions
    > j> (like when hotfixes are installed to patch .Net problems)?
    >
    > no, it up to u how u are going to disturb this
    > I suppose u select the Xenodcode not only for this option?
    > j> Or how about #5 (smaller distributions - remember that Windows
    > j> Installer REQUIRES the .Net runtimes be installed if they are not
    > j> already and that WI does not compress the executable like Thinstall
    > j> and Xenocode).
    >
    > there are some wrappers (like inno) which wrap WI functionality and
    > provide compression


    But, with Inno (which is a really good installer), it is only compressed
    until it is installed. With Thinstall or Xenocode the single exe is always
    compressed and no install is needed to run the app - just copy the single
    exe to the PC or any media installed in the PC (like a USB drive) and run
    it. Nothing to install. Nothing to uninstall.

    >
    > j> As far as #6 is concerned, Windows Installer actively blocks code
    > j> that would access files (as most code that is useful does) if it is
    > j> run from the network or insternet. The Thinstall/Xenocode wrapped
    > j> apps retain all functionality.
    >
    > installer has no relation to assembly trust level - what blocks to run it
    > from network
    > u need to set the correct trust level


    But, you must do this via control panel applets etc., right? Most people
    don't know how to do this. That is why Microsoft's click and run stuff
    never took off.

    With Thinstall (not sure about Xenocode) you don't have any trust issues.
    The executables simply run.

    >
    > j> And, (might as well mention it since we are comparing Windows
    > j> Installer and Thinstall/Xenocode) Windows Installer requires
    > j> administrator privileges to do most installs. Using Thinstall (not
    > j> sure about ), you don't need admin permissions to run the
    > j> executable (no matter its functionality) because nothing is every
    > j> "installed" on the system (no registry entries needed, no install to
    > j> run). That'd be #7 - for those counting at home.
    >
    >
    > if nothing installed then how it works? :) I assume it installs smth but u
    > don't even noted this


    Thinstall and Xenocode create virtual registry entries and virtual
    directories that your app uses to run. These virtual objects are destroyed
    when the app closes.

    >
    > Actually Im against these kind of tools, because it works for the small
    > part of winforms application and if you decided to extend your app -
    > provide security, CAS and etc u can hardly predict how it affects yout
    > Xenocode wrapper app


    I haven't used Xenocode, but as for Thinstall - Thinstall does not affect
    the functionality of your application at all. If you want to enforce
    security using the .Net classes in your app you can.

    I'm telling you....Thinstall-capability is the answer to distribution
    issues, DLL/version hell issues, permission issues, setup issues and even
    helps maintain security on the desktop. Why nobody is making an affordable
    version for the masses, or has taken this on as an open source project is
    beyond me.

    The benefits are so great that NOT including this technology in .Net studio
    is simply negligent.

    jim



    >
    >
    > ---
    > WBR, Michael Nemtsev [.NET/C# MVP] :: blog:
    > http://spaces.live.com/laflour
    > "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
    > miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo
    > j> j> "Michael Nemtsev [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    > j> news:...
    > j>
    >>> Hello jim,
    >>>
    >>> ok, what's from that list cant be done with Windows Installer? :)
    >>> except the point 3 the Windows Installed can do the same things,
    >>> maybe not so silently
    >>>
    >>> ---
    >>> WBR, Michael Nemtsev [.NET/C# MVP] :: blog:
    >>> http://spaces.live.com/laflour
    >>> "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high
    >>> and we
    >>> miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo
    >>> j> For several reasons.....
    >>> j> j> 1) An application is just the first step. I plan on coding
    >>> .Net
    >>> j> applications. The request has to do with distribution of those
    >>> j> applications - not coding the applications.
    >>> j> j> 2) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from
    >>> a
    >>> j> single EXE - no application need be installed.
    >>> j> j> 3) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run
    >>> without
    >>> j> .Net installed.
    >>> j> j> 4) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode do not suffer
    >>> from
    >>> j> DLL or .Net version hell.
    >>> j> j> 5) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode are smaller
    >>> than
    >>> j> .Net + Application installs.
    >>> j> j> 6) Applications wrapped by Thinstall or Xenodcode can run from
    >>> a USB
    >>> j> drive or (if Thinstalled) be streamed over a network with no
    >>> j> installation whatsoever (not even copying the exe).
    >>> j> j> Please read up on Thinstall and Xenocode at
    >>> http://www.thinstall.com/
    >>> j> and http://www.xenocode.com/. Once you do, you too will wonder
    >>> just
    >>> j> why we don't have this functionality in .Net.
    >>> j> j> jim
    >>> j> j> "ThatsIT.net.au" <me@thatsit> wrote in message
    >>> j> news:...
    >>> j>
    >>>>> Do you have Visual Studio 2005? If so why not make a windows
    >>>>> application?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "jim" <> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:e7Lcj.28193$...
    >>>>>> I am looking for an application that will wrap my .Net application
    >>>>>> (and any needed .Net parts) into a single exe.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I know of Thinstall ($4,000 for application and per copy fees for
    >>>>>> your exes) and of Xenocode (~$1,500 plus ~ $12 per copy of your
    >>>>>> exe). But, I'd like something that is actually affordable for a
    >>>>>> hobbyist programmer.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> This capability (Thinstall's being able to wrap a .Net app and
    >>>>>> ship it as a single exe) would be a FANTASTIC addition to the .Net
    >>>>>> application suite. It would simplify the shipping & installation
    >>>>>> and not even require the end user to have .Net installed or to
    >>>>>> install the application. It also avoids DLL and .Net Version
    >>>>>> Hell.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If Microsoft was going to buy something, one of these technologies
    >>>>>> should be it.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If you know of anything like Thinstall or Xenocode that does not
    >>>>>> require per copy fees, I'd really appreciate a pointer to it.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Thanks!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> jim
    >>>>>>

    >
    >
    jim, Dec 27, 2007
    #19
  20. jim

    cj Guest

    IMHO, I agree.

    From my background in the late 80s dBase code needed a runtime and
    other supporting files etc to be on the machine to make dBase programs
    work. Along came Clipper which compiled essentially dbase code into one
    EXE and that one file could be put on any dos or windows computer and
    run from the command prompt or an icon etc. No installation or other
    files etc necessary. This was touted the new, much faster and better
    way to do things. I also worked with C and C++ back then and they also
    compiled to one EXE file.

    Years later along comes .net and it's new and better to go back to
    needing something (.net framework) installed on a pc in order for you
    apps to run. I have to shake my head--but whatever. Perhaps I'm
    getting old and but what really bothers me is nobody seems to notice
    this--maybe the 80s was before they got into programming. Everyone
    seems so enamored by .net these days. I find it funny to think that in
    another 20 years, maybe less, .net will surely be just another memory,
    whatever is out then will be oh so cool and nobody will understand why
    anyone liked .net.

    I don't mean to offend anyone with my comments, I surely appreciate the
    help I get here. I just wish more folks seemed to understand where I'm
    coming from. I might be happier with .net if I was allowed to jump to
    an exclusively .net world and get all into it, but I sit here tasked
    with writing web services in .net that sadly is to use a complicated
    assortment of Visual FoxPro tables as data sources.


    Jeff Gaines wrote:
    > On 27/12/2007 in message
    > <> Michael Nemtsev
    > [MVP] wrote:
    >
    >> Hello jim,
    >>
    >> ok, what's from that list cant be done with Windows Installer? :)
    >> except the point 3 the Windows Installed can do the same things, maybe
    >> not so silently

    >
    > Looks to me like Jim is looking for the .NET equivalent of compiling
    > with static libraries to produce a single executable. I'll add my vote
    > to his wish list :)
    >
    cj, Dec 27, 2007
    #20
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