Netbeans failure mode

Discussion in 'Java' started by secret decoder ring, Nov 28, 2008.

  1. I've seen this a few times and it's annoying when it happens, since the
    only fix seems to be to close and reopen Netbeans, which takes ages.

    The UI starts freezing every few characters typed or other actions
    taken, and Task Manager shows it saturating a core for ten to thirty
    seconds each time.

    Looks like a long computation is being done on (or where it blocks) the
    EDT, which is obviously bad.

    NB is always very slow if the Start page is visible, in addition to the
    above starts-freezing-syndrome.
    secret decoder ring, Nov 28, 2008
    #1
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  2. secret decoder ring

    GArlington Guest

    On Nov 28, 12:39 am, secret decoder ring <>
    wrote:
    > I've seen this a few times and it's annoying when it happens, since the
    > only fix seems to be to close and reopen Netbeans, which takes ages.
    >
    > The UI starts freezing every few characters typed or other actions
    > taken, and Task Manager shows it saturating a core for ten to thirty
    > seconds each time.
    >
    > Looks like a long computation is being done on (or where it blocks) the
    > EDT, which is obviously bad.
    >
    > NB is always very slow if the Start page is visible, in addition to the
    > above starts-freezing-syndrome.


    Check your IDE version and JVM version...
    GArlington, Nov 28, 2008
    #2
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  3. secret decoder ring

    Mark Space Guest

    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > I've seen this a few times and it's annoying when it happens, since the
    > only fix seems to be to close and reopen Netbeans, which takes ages.
    >
    > The UI starts freezing every few characters typed or other actions
    > taken, and Task Manager shows it saturating a core for ten to thirty
    > seconds each time.
    >
    > Looks like a long computation is being done on (or where it blocks) the
    > EDT, which is obviously bad.
    >
    > NB is always very slow if the Start page is visible, in addition to the
    > above starts-freezing-syndrome.


    NetBeans 6.5 takes about 50 seconds to start on my laptop, until I get a
    regularly blinking cursor. It takes about 30 seconds more for the hard
    drive to settle down. I notice that a fair amount of that time was
    "scanning projects" so if you have many projects open, try closing as
    many as possible. Also, there's a check box to hide the start page on
    the start page itself.

    I've also noticed that if I leave NetBeans minimized for a very long
    time it can take as long or longer to fault back into memory. This I
    blame on the OS, not NB.

    I've got a 2 gigabyte laptop with a dual-core running at 2.1 GHz and a
    reasonably fast (7200RPM) hard drive. What are your times for NB start
    up and what's your hardware? What about OS, JVM & JDK versions? NB
    version? Also, the start page accesses the Internet to get some info
    from the web site? Is your network slow? What does 'tracert
    netbeans.org' show?
    Mark Space, Nov 28, 2008
    #3
  4. Mark Space wrote:
    > secret decoder ring wrote:
    >> I've seen this a few times and it's annoying when it happens, since
    >> the only fix seems to be to close and reopen Netbeans, which takes ages.
    >>
    >> The UI starts freezing every few characters typed or other actions
    >> taken, and Task Manager shows it saturating a core for ten to thirty
    >> seconds each time.
    >>
    >> Looks like a long computation is being done on (or where it blocks)
    >> the EDT, which is obviously bad.
    >>
    >> NB is always very slow if the Start page is visible, in addition to
    >> the above starts-freezing-syndrome.

    >
    > NetBeans 6.5


    What? I have

    Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
    Java: 1.6.0_10-beta; Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM 11.0-b12
    System: Windows XP version 5.1 running on x86; Cp1252; en_US (nb)

    and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said everything was
    up to date.

    In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.

    > I've got a 2 gigabyte laptop with a dual-core running at 2.1 GHz and a
    > reasonably fast (7200RPM) hard drive. What are your times for NB start
    > up and what's your hardware?


    Slower startup, same hardware except only 1GB RAM.

    Whatever you have that is calling itself "NetBeans 6.5", though, might
    be or do almost anything differently from NetBeans 6.1. Or the RAM makes
    the difference (though I don't see how, since it is fairly slow even
    with only 4-500MB in use as reported by Task Manager).

    > Also, the start page accesses the Internet to get some info
    > from the web site? Is your network slow?


    The start page being visible makes the whole UI sluggish and jerky. I
    don't think my network is particularly slow, but even if that's it, it
    would mean that when the start page is visible NB frequently does some
    blocking I/O in the EDT, which is bad, bad, bad to the bone.
    secret decoder ring, Nov 29, 2008
    #4
  5. secret decoder ring

    Lew Guest

    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > What? I have
    >
    > Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
    > Java: 1.6.0_10-beta; Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM 11.0-b12
    > System: Windows XP version 5.1 running on x86; Cp1252; en_US (nb)
    >
    > and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said everything was
    > up to date.
    >
    > In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.


    It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1 is up to date.

    Mark Space
    >> I've got a 2 gigabyte laptop with a dual-core running at 2.1 GHz and a
    >> reasonably fast (7200RPM) hard drive. What are your times for NB
    >> start up and what's your hardware?


    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > Slower startup, same hardware except only 1GB RAM.


    He said "what are your times?" You haven't answered that question.

    > Whatever you have that is calling itself "NetBeans 6.5", though, might


    It is NetBeans 6.5. No need to be snide about it.

    Regardless, I've been using NetBeans since well before 6.1 and do not observe
    the behavior you describe with NB 6.1 either.

    > be or do almost anything differently from NetBeans 6.1. Or the RAM makes


    Not "almost anything", since 6.5 is an evolution from 6.1, Still, it could be
    that 6.5 lacks some bug that 6.1 had, except that what you observe is not what
    everyone observes, so it is more likely something specific to your setup.

    > The start page being visible makes the whole UI sluggish and jerky. I


    Not observed here, that phenomenon. I've not seen that either with NB 6.1 on
    Linux or Windows.

    > don't think my network is particularly slow, but even if that's it, it
    > would mean that when the start page is visible NB frequently does some
    > blocking I/O in the EDT, which is bad, bad, bad to the bone.


    Actually, it's extremely unlikely that it misuses the EDT that way, given the
    Java expertise involved in its development. More likely it is something about
    swap in your OS or GC. You haven't answered Mark Space's question about your
    OS, but I would also look into your swap space allocation, the -Xmx paramater
    in your netbeans.conf, and what other apps are running at the same time.
    Having less RAM than Mark Space's configuration, you could be seeing a swap
    artifact. I have two machines running NB, one Windows, one Linux, both with 1
    GB RAM, and I do not observe the phenomena you describe, neither now under NB
    6.5 nor formerly with 6.1.

    Like Mark Space, I observe slow startup times for NB generally, an attribute
    it shares with Eclipse BTW, while it does its self-assembly and project-scan
    things. I do not see the UI freeze after that.

    I would look into your netbeans.conf. You might wish to allocate a wee bit
    more -Xmx to NB, and perhaps tweak the GC parameters.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Nov 29, 2008
    #5
  6. Lew wrote:
    > secret decoder ring wrote:
    >> What? I have
    >>
    >> Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
    >> Java: 1.6.0_10-beta; Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM 11.0-b12
    >> System: Windows XP version 5.1 running on x86; Cp1252; en_US (nb)
    >>
    >> and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said everything was
    >> up to date.
    >>
    >> In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.

    >
    > It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1 is up
    > to date.


    Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
    than 6.1.

    I suppose you are technically correct that it did not explicitly *say*
    that, but it is a strong implication. "6.1 is the latest version" makes
    it very unlikely that there is a 6.5, since it is very uncommon (if it's
    ever happened at all) for an older version of something to have a higher
    number than a newer version.

    > secret decoder ring wrote:
    >> Slower startup, same hardware except only 1GB RAM.

    >
    > He said "what are your times?" You haven't answered that question.


    That's because I don't have an exact number. I'd have to shut down NB,
    dig up a stopwatch, and start it up again, and I can't be bothered to do
    that at the drop of a proverbial hat.

    I DID give an estimate, however, despite your implication above that I
    didn't.

    >> Whatever you have that is calling itself "NetBeans 6.5", though, might

    >
    > It is NetBeans 6.5. No need to be snide about it.


    I am not being snide about anything. I am simply pointing out that
    whatever it is, it is NOT NetBeans 6.1 and consequently might behave
    differently from NetBeans 6.1.

    > Regardless, I've been using NetBeans since well before 6.1 and do not
    > observe the behavior you describe with NB 6.1 either.


    CPU and RAM? JVM?

    > Not "almost anything", since 6.5 is an evolution from 6.1


    That statement is in direct contradiction with my copy of NB 6.1
    self-reporting as being the most recent NetBeans, presumably based on
    data it retrieved from the NB Web site that can reasonably be
    characterized as having come from the proverbial horse's mouth.

    Of course, it could be the case that your statement is correct and my
    copy of NB 6.1 is in error (somehow failing to detect the existence of a
    more up to date version), rather than the other way around.

    > Still, it could be that 6.5 lacks some bug that 6.1 had, except that
    > what you observe is not what everyone observes, so it is more likely
    > something specific to your setup.


    The problem with that hypothesis being that my setup is "nothing to
    write home about". There is nothing exceptional, weird, strange, or very
    far from the norm about it.

    >> The start page being visible makes the whole UI sluggish and jerky. I

    >
    > Not observed here, that phenomenon. I've not seen that either with NB
    > 6.1 on Linux or Windows.


    That is very odd, in light of the above.

    >> don't think my network is particularly slow, but even if that's it, it
    >> would mean that when the start page is visible NB frequently does some
    >> blocking I/O in the EDT, which is bad, bad, bad to the bone.

    >
    > Actually, it's extremely unlikely that it misuses the EDT that way,
    > given the Java expertise involved in its development.


    Then the behavior observed stems from another cause, unrelated to my
    network's speed, as I suspected all along.

    > More likely it is something about swap in your OS or GC.


    Doubtful, since I see the slow-when-start-page-displayed behavior even
    when the system's memory in use is smaller than the total physical
    memory available, and separately since it is not a transient state that
    goes away after a short time (as it would when something was finished
    being swapped in) but persists for as long as the start page is visible.

    > You haven't answered Mark Space's question about your OS


    I most certainly have.

    > but I would also look into your swap space allocation


    2GB; and irrelevant (see above)

    > the -Xmx paramater in your netbeans.conf


    Haven't touched this file, so this should still be the default, and so
    if this were the cause it would affect most copies of NB 6.1. Apparently
    most copies are unaffected, which points to the problem being elsewhere.

    > and what other apps are running at the same time. Having less RAM than
    > Mark Space's configuration, you could be seeing a swap artifact.


    When NB has been foregrounded and in use for an hour plus and the
    system's total memory consumption at the time is only around 700MB out
    of a physical 1024?

    > Like Mark Space, I observe slow startup times for NB generally, an
    > attribute it shares with Eclipse BTW, while it does its self-assembly
    > and project-scan things. I do not see the UI freeze after that.


    The slow startup time is not a primary complaint of mine. But it makes
    problems that force the user to restart NB to be onerous enough for this
    reason that I think suggesting people just resign themselves to
    occasionally restarting NB is "not good enough".

    > I would look into your netbeans.conf.


    Why? It is not possible that I've munged this file, for the simple
    reason that I've not edited it. (Indeed, didn't know it existed until
    this post.) (I assume making some changes in NB's options dialogs might
    indirectly alter that file, but those dialogs should trap any attempt to
    enter unreasonable values, and I can't recall messing with anything to
    do with its memory use or related behaviors.)

    > You might wish to allocate a wee bit more -Xmx to NB


    I doubt it. When it was doing its CPU-saturating-hang thing I noticed
    the process size was upwards of 200 megs. I infer that the -Xmx is 256M
    or more, which "ought to be enough", at least for the time being.

    > and perhaps tweak the GC parameters.


    I definitely didn't make any changes to these, so in particular didn't
    make any that might have been ill-advised and that therefore ought to be
    changed back.

    Since my copy's GC parameters are still the factory defaults, if those
    GC parameters were the problem, a large proportion of all NB 6.1
    installs would be similarly affected, which you claim is not the case.
    secret decoder ring, Nov 29, 2008
    #6
  7. "secret decoder ring" <> wrote in message
    news:ggqjg3$fni$...
    > Lew wrote:
    >> secret decoder ring wrote:
    >>> I have
    >>> Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
    >>>
    >>> and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said everything was
    >>> up to date.
    >>>
    >>> In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.

    >>
    >> It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1 is up
    >> to date.

    >
    > Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
    > than 6.1.
    >


    http://www.netbeans.org/ prominently says "Netbeans IDE 6.5 Just Released".

    Surely, only Paul Derbyshire could be so ignorant, inept, irrational and
    argumentative?
    Harold \Curly\ Phillips, Nov 29, 2008
    #7
  8. "Lew" <> wrote in message
    news:ggqhs0$486$...
    > secret decoder ring wrote:

    [ SNIP ]
    > Actually, it's extremely unlikely that it misuses the EDT that way, given
    > the Java expertise involved in its development. More likely it is
    > something about swap in your OS or GC. You haven't answered Mark Space's
    > question about your OS, but I would also look into your swap space
    > allocation, the -Xmx paramater in your netbeans.conf, and what other apps
    > are running at the same time. Having less RAM than Mark Space's
    > configuration, you could be seeing a swap artifact. I have two machines
    > running NB, one Windows, one Linux, both with 1 GB RAM, and I do not
    > observe the phenomena you describe, neither now under NB 6.5 nor formerly
    > with 6.1.
    >
    > Like Mark Space, I observe slow startup times for NB generally, an
    > attribute it shares with Eclipse BTW, while it does its self-assembly and
    > project-scan things. I do not see the UI freeze after that.
    >
    > I would look into your netbeans.conf. You might wish to allocate a wee
    > bit more -Xmx to NB, and perhaps tweak the GC parameters.
    >
    > --
    > Lew


    The above would also be my first angle of investigation. For starters, the
    default memory settings for NetBeans and Eclipse both are inadequate...-Xms
    is 40m default for Eclipse 3.4, and IIRC I think NB 6.1 -Xms is 32m. As you
    say, -Xmx can also be bumped.

    Also as you point out, there are other services and apps running. If you're
    developing J2EE, you'll have (potentially) NetBeans or Eclipse, your J2EE
    server (Glassfish, JBoss, oc4j, whatever), your DBMS (PostgreSQL, MySQL
    etc), one or more web browsers (no slouches in the memory dept either), and
    assorted other apps, not to mention whatever else the OS has claimed.

    I myself upgraded my aging machine (a Dell Dimension 3100) to 2 GB (as much
    as it'll take), and I've jacked up Xms/mx and the GC settings ...makes a
    huge difference. Startup time hasn't necessarily dropped much - the IDEs
    gotta do what they gotta do, and it's not like my CPU got faster or disk
    access time decreased - but once running there is a substantial difference.
    Not that I normally do it this way, but just for giggles I started up a
    normal Windows dev environment - Visual Web Developer Express 2008, SQL
    Server Express 2008, SQL Management Studio 2008, Notepad++, and two
    browsers, then I fired up the ASP.NET MVC app I'm currently working on in
    debugging mode...and then I launched NB 6.1. Took about 45 seconds until I
    was able to actually start opening Java and XHTML source files and doing
    work...not so bad. Responsive afterwards.

    These days I myself would recommend a minimum of 2 GB of RAM for a dev box,
    but the current norm in the workplace seems to be more like 4 GB. I wouldn't
    expect anything less from a computer provided by an employer, and in fact 4
    gigs is what i have on my work laptop.

    Of course, you have what you have. Running System Monitor (on Windows) for a
    while, and then adjusting swap size, is (as you suggest) also a good idea.

    AHS
    Arved Sandstrom, Nov 29, 2008
    #8
  9. "secret decoder ring" <> wrote in message
    news:ggqjg3$fni$...
    > Lew wrote:
    >> secret decoder ring wrote:
    >>> What? I have
    >>>
    >>> Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
    >>> Java: 1.6.0_10-beta; Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM 11.0-b12
    >>> System: Windows XP version 5.1 running on x86; Cp1252; en_US (nb)
    >>>
    >>> and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said everything was
    >>> up to date.
    >>>
    >>> In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.

    >>
    >> It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1 is up
    >> to date.

    >
    > Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
    > than 6.1.

    [ SNIP ]

    And when you're doing Windows Updates on your WinXP installation, does it
    upgrade you to Vista?

    AHS
    Arved Sandstrom, Nov 29, 2008
    #9
  10. Mike Schilling wrote:
    > secret decoder ring wrote:
    >> Lew wrote:
    >>> secret decoder ring wrote:
    >>>> In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.
    >>> It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1
    >>> is up to date.

    >> Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number
    >> higher than 6.1.

    >
    > Admirable logic. A shame that
    > http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/index.html contradicts this by
    > offering to download NetBeans 6.5.


    That would merely indicate that NB 6.1's claim to be the most up-to-date
    version was incorrect. NB 6.1 did indeed indicate that there was no NB
    6.5, as I said; it just was inaccurate in making that indication.

    An interesting question would be "why?".
    secret decoder ring, Nov 29, 2008
    #10
  11. Harold "Curly" Phillips wrote:
    > "secret decoder ring" <> wrote in message
    > news:ggqjg3$fni$...
    >> Lew wrote:
    >>> secret decoder ring wrote:
    >>>> I have
    >>>> Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
    >>>>
    >>>> and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said everything
    >>>> was up to date.
    >>>>
    >>>> In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.
    >>>
    >>> It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1 is
    >>> up to date.

    >>
    >> Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number
    >> higher than 6.1.
    >>

    >
    > http://www.netbeans.org/ prominently says "Netbeans IDE 6.5 Just Released".


    Which implies that NB 6.1's assessment of itself as fully up-to-date was
    erroneous.

    > Surely, only Paul Derbyshire could be so ignorant, inept, irrational and
    > argumentative?


    I don't get this. Why are you verbally attacking someone I've never
    heard of in the middle of a discussion about NetBeans? It looks irrelevant.
    secret decoder ring, Nov 29, 2008
    #11
  12. Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > "secret decoder ring" <> wrote in message
    > news:ggqjg3$fni$...
    >> Lew wrote:
    >>> secret decoder ring wrote:
    >>>> What? I have
    >>>>
    >>>> Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
    >>>> Java: 1.6.0_10-beta; Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM 11.0-b12
    >>>> System: Windows XP version 5.1 running on x86; Cp1252; en_US (nb)
    >>>>
    >>>> and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said everything was
    >>>> up to date.
    >>>>
    >>>> In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.
    >>> It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1 is up
    >>> to date.

    >> Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
    >> than 6.1.

    > [ SNIP ]
    >
    > And when you're doing Windows Updates on your WinXP installation, does it
    > upgrade you to Vista?


    What are you talking about? You have to pay to upgrade to Vista, so
    obviously Windows Update can't do it automatically. You don't, on the
    other hand, have to pay to upgrade to NB 6.5.

    Furthermore, Windows Update can certainly download XP SP3 and install it
    (although I've blocked mine from doing so, because I've heard many bad
    things about SP3 and few good things), and the jump from NB 6.1 to NB
    6.5 seems more like the equivalent of a service pack upgrade to me.

    The jump from NB 6.1 to, say, a future NB 7.0 might be more akin to
    going from XP to Vista. (Actually, probably closer to the not-as-major
    change from Win95 to Win98, or perhaps that from Win95 to WinME.)

    And even that is not a problem for the auto-updater when the new version
    is free.

    And even if for some reason it was deemed undesirable for it to
    *automatically download and install* a major-version increase, it
    certainly is still ridiculous for it to claim to actually be the most
    current version when it is not. It should certainly *notify* the user
    that a newer version exists, even if perhaps without being able to
    download and install it without the user's prompting.

    For a minor-version increase, the above goes double.
    secret decoder ring, Nov 29, 2008
    #12
  13. secret decoder ring

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > Mike Schilling wrote:
    >> secret decoder ring wrote:
    >>> Lew wrote:
    >>>> secret decoder ring wrote:
    >>>>> In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.
    >>>> It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1
    >>>> is up to date.
    >>> Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number
    >>> higher than 6.1.

    >>
    >> Admirable logic. A shame that
    >> http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/index.html contradicts this by
    >> offering to download NetBeans 6.5.

    >
    > That would merely indicate that NB 6.1's claim to be the most up-to-date
    > version was incorrect. NB 6.1 did indeed indicate that there was no NB
    > 6.5, as I said; it just was inaccurate in making that indication.
    >
    > An interesting question would be "why?".


    NB is correct - assuming that all the modules are at latest.

    NB is not a module at version 6.1. NB 6.1 is a module at a given
    version (I believe version 1.1.1 is current).

    There are good reasons not to allow an IDE to upgrade itself
    to a new major version.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Nov 29, 2008
    #13
  14. Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > "secret decoder ring" <> wrote in message
    > news:ggqjg3$fni$...
    >> Lew wrote:
    >>> secret decoder ring wrote:
    >>>> What? I have
    >>>>
    >>>> Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
    >>>> Java: 1.6.0_10-beta; Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM 11.0-b12
    >>>> System: Windows XP version 5.1 running on x86; Cp1252; en_US (nb)
    >>>>
    >>>> and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said
    >>>> everything
    >>>> was up to date.
    >>>>
    >>>> In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.
    >>>
    >>> It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1
    >>> is up to date.

    >>
    >> Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number
    >> higher than 6.1.

    > [ SNIP ]
    >
    > And when you're doing Windows Updates on your WinXP installation,
    > does it upgrade you to Vista?


    Not if it knows what's good for it.
    Mike Schilling, Nov 29, 2008
    #14
  15. secret decoder ring

    Lew Guest


    >
    >> secret decoder ring wrote:
    >>> In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.


    Lew wrote:
    >> It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1 is
    >> up to date.


    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
    > than 6.1.


    No, it doesn't. Up-to-dateness checks for a specific version do not imply
    anything about the existence or non-existence of a later version.

    > I suppose you are technically correct that it did not explicitly *say*
    > that, but it is a strong implication. "6.1 is the latest version" makes


    It doesn't say "6.1 is the latest version". It says, "Your 6.1 version is up
    to date".

    > it very unlikely that there is a 6.5, since it is very uncommon (if it's


    And yet, there is a 6.5 version of NetBeans. Doesn't that hint that your
    analysis needs enhancement?


    Lew wrote:
    >> He said "what are your times?" You haven't answered that question.


    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > That's because I don't have an exact number. I'd have to shut down NB,
    > dig up a stopwatch, and start it up again, and I can't be bothered to do
    > that at the drop of a proverbial hat.


    But you are investigating a specific problem that is hurting you, that's
    exactly what you need to do. That's just common sense.

    > I DID give an estimate, however, despite your implication above that I
    > didn't.


    I must have missed it. What was that estimate again?

    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > I am not being snide about anything. I am simply pointing out that
    > whatever it is, it is NOT NetBeans 6.1 and consequently might behave
    > differently from NetBeans 6.1.


    Agreed, but not, as it happens, with respect to your described behaviors, at
    least not in my experience.

    > That statement is in direct contradiction with my copy of NB 6.1
    > self-reporting as being the most recent NetBeans, presumably based on


    Which it doesn't do. NetBeans 6.5 is the most recent version.

    > data it retrieved from the NB Web site that can reasonably be
    > characterized as having come from the proverbial horse's mouth.


    And yet NetBeans 6.5 is the most recent version. That's easily verifiable.

    > Of course, it could be the case that your statement is correct and my
    > copy of NB 6.1 is in error (somehow failing to detect the existence of a
    > more up to date version), rather than the other way around.


    Depends on how you define "error". It happens that NB 6.5 is the most recent
    version of NB, and, from your evidence, that version 6.1 doesn't report that.
    Maybe, like many, many other software products, versions only report
    up-to-dateness in their own context and not that of some later version when it
    comes out.

    Lew said:
    >> Not observed here, that phenomenon. I've not seen that either with NB
    >> 6.1 on Linux or Windows.


    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > That is very odd, in light of the above.


    It just means that you have to investigate what's different between the
    setups. I suggest you examine netbeans.conf.

    Lew:
    >> Actually, it's extremely unlikely that it misuses the EDT that way,
    >> given the Java expertise involved in its development.


    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > Then the behavior observed stems from another cause, unrelated to my
    > network's speed, as I suspected all along.


    Seems likely.

    >> More likely it is something about swap in your OS or GC.


    > Doubtful, since I see the slow-when-start-page-displayed behavior even
    > when the system's memory in use is smaller than the total physical
    > memory available, and separately since it is not a transient state that
    > goes away after a short time (as it would when something was finished
    > being swapped in) but persists for as long as the start page is visible.



    >> You haven't answered Mark Space's question about your OS


    > I most certainly have.


    I corrected that typo before you responded.

    >> but I would also look into your swap space allocation

    >
    > 2GB; and irrelevant (see above)
    >
    >> the -Xmx paramater in your netbeans.conf

    >
    > Haven't touched this file, so this should still be the default, and so
    > if this were the cause it would affect most copies of NB 6.1. Apparently
    > most copies are unaffected, which points to the problem being elsewhere.


    It is a mystery.

    >> and what other apps are running at the same time. Having less RAM than
    >> Mark Space's configuration, you could be seeing a swap artifact.

    >
    > When NB has been foregrounded and in use for an hour plus and the
    > system's total memory consumption at the time is only around 700MB out
    > of a physical 1024?


    Yes, that militates against that hypothesis.

    > The slow startup time is not a primary complaint of mine. But it makes
    > problems that force the user to restart NB to be onerous enough for this
    > reason that I think suggesting people just resign themselves to
    > occasionally restarting NB is "not good enough".


    Who made that suggestion? Not I.

    >> I would look into your netbeans.conf.


    > Why? It is not possible that I've munged this file, for the simple


    It's not a question of you "munging" the file, but of it perhaps not being
    optimal out of the box.

    > reason that I've not edited it. (Indeed, didn't know it existed until
    > this post.) (I assume making some changes in NB's options dialogs might
    > indirectly alter that file, but those dialogs should trap any attempt to
    > enter unreasonable values, and I can't recall messing with anything to
    > do with its memory use or related behaviors.)
    >
    >> You might wish to allocate a wee bit more -Xmx to NB

    >
    > I doubt it. When it was doing its CPU-saturating-hang thing I noticed
    > the process size was upwards of 200 megs. I infer that the -Xmx is 256M
    > or more, which "ought to be enough", at least for the time being.


    The process size is not a reliable indicator of maximum heap, quite the
    contrary. It actually indicates that -Xmx is far below 200 MB. Process size
    includes class space, the JVM itself and a host of non-heap allocations.

    > Since my copy's GC parameters are still the factory defaults, if those
    > GC parameters were the problem, a large proportion of all NB 6.1
    > installs would be similarly affected, which you claim is not the case.


    Perhaps, or perhaps not. Or perhaps more people who use NB are modifying
    netbeans.conf than you think.

    In any event, empirical evidence is best. If you adjust the configuration and
    the problem goes away, Bob's your uncle.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Nov 29, 2008
    #15
  16. secret decoder ring

    Lew Guest

    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > ... the jump from NB 6.1 to NB
    > 6.5 seems more like the equivalent of a service pack upgrade to me.


    Maybe it seems that way to you, but what counts is how it seems to the folks
    over at netbeans.org.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Nov 29, 2008
    #16
  17. secret decoder ring

    Lew Guest

    secret decoder ring wrote:
    > And even if for some reason it was deemed undesirable for it to
    > *automatically download and install* a major-version increase, it
    > certainly is still ridiculous for it to claim to actually be the most
    > current version when it is not. It should certainly *notify* the user
    > that a newer version exists, even if perhaps without being able to
    > download and install it without the user's prompting.


    That notification is given. You mentioned that you have certain behaviors
    with the start page visible in NetBeans. If you look at that start page, you
    will see a headline that reads, "NetBeans IDE 6.5 Now Available for Download".

    That's one of the reasons why NB provides a start page, to give such notification.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Nov 29, 2008
    #17
  18. "secret decoder ring" <> wrote in message
    news:ggrotu$ok3$...
    > Arved Sandstrom wrote:

    [ SNIP ]
    >> And when you're doing Windows Updates on your WinXP installation, does it
    >> upgrade you to Vista?

    >
    > What are you talking about? You have to pay to upgrade to Vista, so
    > obviously Windows Update can't do it automatically. You don't, on the
    > other hand, have to pay to upgrade to NB 6.5.
    >
    > Furthermore, Windows Update can certainly download XP SP3 and install it
    > (although I've blocked mine from doing so, because I've heard many bad
    > things about SP3 and few good things), and the jump from NB 6.1 to NB 6.5
    > seems more like the equivalent of a service pack upgrade to me.
    >
    > The jump from NB 6.1 to, say, a future NB 7.0 might be more akin to going
    > from XP to Vista. (Actually, probably closer to the not-as-major change
    > from Win95 to Win98, or perhaps that from Win95 to WinME.)
    >
    > And even that is not a problem for the auto-updater when the new version
    > is free.
    >
    > And even if for some reason it was deemed undesirable for it to
    > *automatically download and install* a major-version increase, it
    > certainly is still ridiculous for it to claim to actually be the most
    > current version when it is not. It should certainly *notify* the user that
    > a newer version exists, even if perhaps without being able to download and
    > install it without the user's prompting.
    >
    > For a minor-version increase, the above goes double.


    Thing is, when you see a x.y or x.y.z version numbering scheme, you can't
    assume that x=major, y=minor, and z=maintenance, or anything else. NetBeans
    calls NB 6.5 a "significant update" to NB 6.1, and some people would not
    call that a minor version increase. As another example, when JDKs were being
    numbered 1.x, an increase in 'x' most certainly was a major release, not a
    minor one.

    I don't know exactly what the 'y' in NetBeans x.y versioning is...all I know
    is that it signifies enough of a change and enough incompatibilities that
    the project requires people to do a complete new install. That's all I need
    to know.

    I still have NB 6.1 - I won't be upgrading for a while. I just tried another
    "Check for Updates", and that reported simply that my IDE was up to date,
    and that there were no updates available. That is completely different from
    claiming that my version of NetBeans is the latest one out there. It just
    says that there are no updates available for NB 6.1 that I don't already
    have (for my installed stuff). By definition, there are no updates to get
    you from NB 6.1 to NB 6.5.

    And as others pointed out, the Start Page for 6.1 is crawling with mentions
    of 6.5.

    AHS
    Arved Sandstrom, Nov 30, 2008
    #18
  19. secret decoder ring

    Gilbert Guest

    > but I would also look into your swap space allocation, the -Xmx
    > paramater in your netbeans.conf, and what other apps are running at the
    > same time.


    I notice that in my netbeans.conf for Netbeans 6.5 it says that the -Xmx
    parameter is automatically calculated. Is this generally sufficient or
    should I be looking to manually override it. (Currently calculates Xmx as
    125M on a 640M machine)
    Gilbert, Nov 30, 2008
    #19
  20. secret decoder ring

    Lew Guest

    Lew wrote:
    >> but I would also look into your swap space allocation, the -Xmx
    >> paramater in your netbeans.conf, and what other apps are running at the
    >> same time.


    Gilbert wrote:
    > I notice that in my netbeans.conf for Netbeans 6.5 it says that the -Xmx
    > parameter is automatically calculated. Is this generally sufficient or
    > should I be looking to manually override it. (Currently calculates Xmx as


    "mx" - "-X" is just the indicator that it's an advanced parameter.

    > 125M on a 640M machine)


    You should look into it, but you might not need to override that. Is the
    amount allocated sufficient on your machine?

    It also depends on what else you're running, e.g., whether you have NB kick
    off servers, where the database is running, etc.

    How is it that you have 640MB of RAM? RAM sticks are almost always installed
    in pairs, and the smallest for modern machines AFAIK are 128 MB. You should
    consider 1 GB as minimal for a development machine; 2GB or more is far better.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Nov 30, 2008
    #20
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