Netbeans failure mode

  • Thread starter secret decoder ring
  • Start date
S

secret decoder ring

I've seen this a few times and it's annoying when it happens, since the
only fix seems to be to close and reopen Netbeans, which takes ages.

The UI starts freezing every few characters typed or other actions
taken, and Task Manager shows it saturating a core for ten to thirty
seconds each time.

Looks like a long computation is being done on (or where it blocks) the
EDT, which is obviously bad.

NB is always very slow if the Start page is visible, in addition to the
above starts-freezing-syndrome.
 
G

GArlington

I've seen this a few times and it's annoying when it happens, since the
only fix seems to be to close and reopen Netbeans, which takes ages.

The UI starts freezing every few characters typed or other actions
taken, and Task Manager shows it saturating a core for ten to thirty
seconds each time.

Looks like a long computation is being done on (or where it blocks) the
EDT, which is obviously bad.

NB is always very slow if the Start page is visible, in addition to the
above starts-freezing-syndrome.

Check your IDE version and JVM version...
 
M

Mark Space

secret said:
I've seen this a few times and it's annoying when it happens, since the
only fix seems to be to close and reopen Netbeans, which takes ages.

The UI starts freezing every few characters typed or other actions
taken, and Task Manager shows it saturating a core for ten to thirty
seconds each time.

Looks like a long computation is being done on (or where it blocks) the
EDT, which is obviously bad.

NB is always very slow if the Start page is visible, in addition to the
above starts-freezing-syndrome.

NetBeans 6.5 takes about 50 seconds to start on my laptop, until I get a
regularly blinking cursor. It takes about 30 seconds more for the hard
drive to settle down. I notice that a fair amount of that time was
"scanning projects" so if you have many projects open, try closing as
many as possible. Also, there's a check box to hide the start page on
the start page itself.

I've also noticed that if I leave NetBeans minimized for a very long
time it can take as long or longer to fault back into memory. This I
blame on the OS, not NB.

I've got a 2 gigabyte laptop with a dual-core running at 2.1 GHz and a
reasonably fast (7200RPM) hard drive. What are your times for NB start
up and what's your hardware? What about OS, JVM & JDK versions? NB
version? Also, the start page accesses the Internet to get some info
from the web site? Is your network slow? What does 'tracert
netbeans.org' show?
 
S

secret decoder ring

Mark said:
NetBeans 6.5

What? I have

Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
Java: 1.6.0_10-beta; Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM 11.0-b12
System: Windows XP version 5.1 running on x86; Cp1252; en_US (nb)

and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said everything was
up to date.

In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.
I've got a 2 gigabyte laptop with a dual-core running at 2.1 GHz and a
reasonably fast (7200RPM) hard drive. What are your times for NB start
up and what's your hardware?

Slower startup, same hardware except only 1GB RAM.

Whatever you have that is calling itself "NetBeans 6.5", though, might
be or do almost anything differently from NetBeans 6.1. Or the RAM makes
the difference (though I don't see how, since it is fairly slow even
with only 4-500MB in use as reported by Task Manager).
Also, the start page accesses the Internet to get some info
from the web site? Is your network slow?

The start page being visible makes the whole UI sluggish and jerky. I
don't think my network is particularly slow, but even if that's it, it
would mean that when the start page is visible NB frequently does some
blocking I/O in the EDT, which is bad, bad, bad to the bone.
 
L

Lew

secret said:
What? I have

Product Version: NetBeans IDE 6.1 (Build 200805300101)
Java: 1.6.0_10-beta; Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM 11.0-b12
System: Windows XP version 5.1 running on x86; Cp1252; en_US (nb)

and I just ran its "check for updates" feature. It said everything was
up to date.

In other words, it said there is no NetBeans 6.5.

It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1 is up to date.

Mark Space
Slower startup, same hardware except only 1GB RAM.

He said "what are your times?" You haven't answered that question.
Whatever you have that is calling itself "NetBeans 6.5", though, might

It is NetBeans 6.5. No need to be snide about it.

Regardless, I've been using NetBeans since well before 6.1 and do not observe
the behavior you describe with NB 6.1 either.
be or do almost anything differently from NetBeans 6.1. Or the RAM makes

Not "almost anything", since 6.5 is an evolution from 6.1, Still, it could be
that 6.5 lacks some bug that 6.1 had, except that what you observe is not what
everyone observes, so it is more likely something specific to your setup.
The start page being visible makes the whole UI sluggish and jerky. I

Not observed here, that phenomenon. I've not seen that either with NB 6.1 on
Linux or Windows.
don't think my network is particularly slow, but even if that's it, it
would mean that when the start page is visible NB frequently does some
blocking I/O in the EDT, which is bad, bad, bad to the bone.

Actually, it's extremely unlikely that it misuses the EDT that way, given the
Java expertise involved in its development. More likely it is something about
swap in your OS or GC. You haven't answered Mark Space's question about your
OS, but I would also look into your swap space allocation, the -Xmx paramater
in your netbeans.conf, and what other apps are running at the same time.
Having less RAM than Mark Space's configuration, you could be seeing a swap
artifact. I have two machines running NB, one Windows, one Linux, both with 1
GB RAM, and I do not observe the phenomena you describe, neither now under NB
6.5 nor formerly with 6.1.

Like Mark Space, I observe slow startup times for NB generally, an attribute
it shares with Eclipse BTW, while it does its self-assembly and project-scan
things. I do not see the UI freeze after that.

I would look into your netbeans.conf. You might wish to allocate a wee bit
more -Xmx to NB, and perhaps tweak the GC parameters.
 
S

secret decoder ring

Lew said:
It said no such thing. What it actually said was that your NB 6.1 is up
to date.

Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
than 6.1.

I suppose you are technically correct that it did not explicitly *say*
that, but it is a strong implication. "6.1 is the latest version" makes
it very unlikely that there is a 6.5, since it is very uncommon (if it's
ever happened at all) for an older version of something to have a higher
number than a newer version.
He said "what are your times?" You haven't answered that question.

That's because I don't have an exact number. I'd have to shut down NB,
dig up a stopwatch, and start it up again, and I can't be bothered to do
that at the drop of a proverbial hat.

I DID give an estimate, however, despite your implication above that I
didn't.
It is NetBeans 6.5. No need to be snide about it.

I am not being snide about anything. I am simply pointing out that
whatever it is, it is NOT NetBeans 6.1 and consequently might behave
differently from NetBeans 6.1.
Regardless, I've been using NetBeans since well before 6.1 and do not
observe the behavior you describe with NB 6.1 either.

CPU and RAM? JVM?
Not "almost anything", since 6.5 is an evolution from 6.1

That statement is in direct contradiction with my copy of NB 6.1
self-reporting as being the most recent NetBeans, presumably based on
data it retrieved from the NB Web site that can reasonably be
characterized as having come from the proverbial horse's mouth.

Of course, it could be the case that your statement is correct and my
copy of NB 6.1 is in error (somehow failing to detect the existence of a
more up to date version), rather than the other way around.
Still, it could be that 6.5 lacks some bug that 6.1 had, except that
what you observe is not what everyone observes, so it is more likely
something specific to your setup.

The problem with that hypothesis being that my setup is "nothing to
write home about". There is nothing exceptional, weird, strange, or very
far from the norm about it.
Not observed here, that phenomenon. I've not seen that either with NB
6.1 on Linux or Windows.

That is very odd, in light of the above.
Actually, it's extremely unlikely that it misuses the EDT that way,
given the Java expertise involved in its development.

Then the behavior observed stems from another cause, unrelated to my
network's speed, as I suspected all along.
More likely it is something about swap in your OS or GC.

Doubtful, since I see the slow-when-start-page-displayed behavior even
when the system's memory in use is smaller than the total physical
memory available, and separately since it is not a transient state that
goes away after a short time (as it would when something was finished
being swapped in) but persists for as long as the start page is visible.
You haven't answered Mark Space's question about your OS

I most certainly have.
but I would also look into your swap space allocation

2GB; and irrelevant (see above)
the -Xmx paramater in your netbeans.conf

Haven't touched this file, so this should still be the default, and so
if this were the cause it would affect most copies of NB 6.1. Apparently
most copies are unaffected, which points to the problem being elsewhere.
and what other apps are running at the same time. Having less RAM than
Mark Space's configuration, you could be seeing a swap artifact.

When NB has been foregrounded and in use for an hour plus and the
system's total memory consumption at the time is only around 700MB out
of a physical 1024?
Like Mark Space, I observe slow startup times for NB generally, an
attribute it shares with Eclipse BTW, while it does its self-assembly
and project-scan things. I do not see the UI freeze after that.

The slow startup time is not a primary complaint of mine. But it makes
problems that force the user to restart NB to be onerous enough for this
reason that I think suggesting people just resign themselves to
occasionally restarting NB is "not good enough".
I would look into your netbeans.conf.

Why? It is not possible that I've munged this file, for the simple
reason that I've not edited it. (Indeed, didn't know it existed until
this post.) (I assume making some changes in NB's options dialogs might
indirectly alter that file, but those dialogs should trap any attempt to
enter unreasonable values, and I can't recall messing with anything to
do with its memory use or related behaviors.)
You might wish to allocate a wee bit more -Xmx to NB

I doubt it. When it was doing its CPU-saturating-hang thing I noticed
the process size was upwards of 200 megs. I infer that the -Xmx is 256M
or more, which "ought to be enough", at least for the time being.
and perhaps tweak the GC parameters.

I definitely didn't make any changes to these, so in particular didn't
make any that might have been ill-advised and that therefore ought to be
changed back.

Since my copy's GC parameters are still the factory defaults, if those
GC parameters were the problem, a large proportion of all NB 6.1
installs would be similarly affected, which you claim is not the case.
 
H

Harold \Curly\ Phillips

secret decoder ring said:
Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
than 6.1.

http://www.netbeans.org/ prominently says "Netbeans IDE 6.5 Just Released".

Surely, only Paul Derbyshire could be so ignorant, inept, irrational and
argumentative?
 
A

Arved Sandstrom

Lew said:
secret decoder ring wrote: [ SNIP ]
Actually, it's extremely unlikely that it misuses the EDT that way, given
the Java expertise involved in its development. More likely it is
something about swap in your OS or GC. You haven't answered Mark Space's
question about your OS, but I would also look into your swap space
allocation, the -Xmx paramater in your netbeans.conf, and what other apps
are running at the same time. Having less RAM than Mark Space's
configuration, you could be seeing a swap artifact. I have two machines
running NB, one Windows, one Linux, both with 1 GB RAM, and I do not
observe the phenomena you describe, neither now under NB 6.5 nor formerly
with 6.1.

Like Mark Space, I observe slow startup times for NB generally, an
attribute it shares with Eclipse BTW, while it does its self-assembly and
project-scan things. I do not see the UI freeze after that.

I would look into your netbeans.conf. You might wish to allocate a wee
bit more -Xmx to NB, and perhaps tweak the GC parameters.

The above would also be my first angle of investigation. For starters, the
default memory settings for NetBeans and Eclipse both are inadequate...-Xms
is 40m default for Eclipse 3.4, and IIRC I think NB 6.1 -Xms is 32m. As you
say, -Xmx can also be bumped.

Also as you point out, there are other services and apps running. If you're
developing J2EE, you'll have (potentially) NetBeans or Eclipse, your J2EE
server (Glassfish, JBoss, oc4j, whatever), your DBMS (PostgreSQL, MySQL
etc), one or more web browsers (no slouches in the memory dept either), and
assorted other apps, not to mention whatever else the OS has claimed.

I myself upgraded my aging machine (a Dell Dimension 3100) to 2 GB (as much
as it'll take), and I've jacked up Xms/mx and the GC settings ...makes a
huge difference. Startup time hasn't necessarily dropped much - the IDEs
gotta do what they gotta do, and it's not like my CPU got faster or disk
access time decreased - but once running there is a substantial difference.
Not that I normally do it this way, but just for giggles I started up a
normal Windows dev environment - Visual Web Developer Express 2008, SQL
Server Express 2008, SQL Management Studio 2008, Notepad++, and two
browsers, then I fired up the ASP.NET MVC app I'm currently working on in
debugging mode...and then I launched NB 6.1. Took about 45 seconds until I
was able to actually start opening Java and XHTML source files and doing
work...not so bad. Responsive afterwards.

These days I myself would recommend a minimum of 2 GB of RAM for a dev box,
but the current norm in the workplace seems to be more like 4 GB. I wouldn't
expect anything less from a computer provided by an employer, and in fact 4
gigs is what i have on my work laptop.

Of course, you have what you have. Running System Monitor (on Windows) for a
while, and then adjusting swap size, is (as you suggest) also a good idea.

AHS
 
A

Arved Sandstrom

secret decoder ring said:
Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
than 6.1.
[ SNIP ]

And when you're doing Windows Updates on your WinXP installation, does it
upgrade you to Vista?

AHS
 
S

secret decoder ring

Mike said:
Admirable logic. A shame that
http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/index.html contradicts this by
offering to download NetBeans 6.5.

That would merely indicate that NB 6.1's claim to be the most up-to-date
version was incorrect. NB 6.1 did indeed indicate that there was no NB
6.5, as I said; it just was inaccurate in making that indication.

An interesting question would be "why?".
 
S

secret decoder ring

Harold said:
http://www.netbeans.org/ prominently says "Netbeans IDE 6.5 Just Released".

Which implies that NB 6.1's assessment of itself as fully up-to-date was
erroneous.
Surely, only Paul Derbyshire could be so ignorant, inept, irrational and
argumentative?

I don't get this. Why are you verbally attacking someone I've never
heard of in the middle of a discussion about NetBeans? It looks irrelevant.
 
S

secret decoder ring

Arved said:
secret decoder ring said:
Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
than 6.1.
[ SNIP ]

And when you're doing Windows Updates on your WinXP installation, does it
upgrade you to Vista?

What are you talking about? You have to pay to upgrade to Vista, so
obviously Windows Update can't do it automatically. You don't, on the
other hand, have to pay to upgrade to NB 6.5.

Furthermore, Windows Update can certainly download XP SP3 and install it
(although I've blocked mine from doing so, because I've heard many bad
things about SP3 and few good things), and the jump from NB 6.1 to NB
6.5 seems more like the equivalent of a service pack upgrade to me.

The jump from NB 6.1 to, say, a future NB 7.0 might be more akin to
going from XP to Vista. (Actually, probably closer to the not-as-major
change from Win95 to Win98, or perhaps that from Win95 to WinME.)

And even that is not a problem for the auto-updater when the new version
is free.

And even if for some reason it was deemed undesirable for it to
*automatically download and install* a major-version increase, it
certainly is still ridiculous for it to claim to actually be the most
current version when it is not. It should certainly *notify* the user
that a newer version exists, even if perhaps without being able to
download and install it without the user's prompting.

For a minor-version increase, the above goes double.
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

secret said:
That would merely indicate that NB 6.1's claim to be the most up-to-date
version was incorrect. NB 6.1 did indeed indicate that there was no NB
6.5, as I said; it just was inaccurate in making that indication.

An interesting question would be "why?".

NB is correct - assuming that all the modules are at latest.

NB is not a module at version 6.1. NB 6.1 is a module at a given
version (I believe version 1.1.1 is current).

There are good reasons not to allow an IDE to upgrade itself
to a new major version.

Arne
 
M

Mike Schilling

Arved said:
secret decoder ring said:
Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number
higher than 6.1.
[ SNIP ]

And when you're doing Windows Updates on your WinXP installation,
does it upgrade you to Vista?

Not if it knows what's good for it.
 
L

Lew

Which implies that there is no NetBeans 6.5, or any other number higher
than 6.1.

No, it doesn't. Up-to-dateness checks for a specific version do not imply
anything about the existence or non-existence of a later version.
I suppose you are technically correct that it did not explicitly *say*
that, but it is a strong implication. "6.1 is the latest version" makes

It doesn't say "6.1 is the latest version". It says, "Your 6.1 version is up
to date".
it very unlikely that there is a 6.5, since it is very uncommon (if it's

And yet, there is a 6.5 version of NetBeans. Doesn't that hint that your
analysis needs enhancement?

That's because I don't have an exact number. I'd have to shut down NB,
dig up a stopwatch, and start it up again, and I can't be bothered to do
that at the drop of a proverbial hat.

But you are investigating a specific problem that is hurting you, that's
exactly what you need to do. That's just common sense.
I DID give an estimate, however, despite your implication above that I
didn't.

I must have missed it. What was that estimate again?
I am not being snide about anything. I am simply pointing out that
whatever it is, it is NOT NetBeans 6.1 and consequently might behave
differently from NetBeans 6.1.

Agreed, but not, as it happens, with respect to your described behaviors, at
least not in my experience.
That statement is in direct contradiction with my copy of NB 6.1
self-reporting as being the most recent NetBeans, presumably based on

Which it doesn't do. NetBeans 6.5 is the most recent version.
data it retrieved from the NB Web site that can reasonably be
characterized as having come from the proverbial horse's mouth.

And yet NetBeans 6.5 is the most recent version. That's easily verifiable.
Of course, it could be the case that your statement is correct and my
copy of NB 6.1 is in error (somehow failing to detect the existence of a
more up to date version), rather than the other way around.

Depends on how you define "error". It happens that NB 6.5 is the most recent
version of NB, and, from your evidence, that version 6.1 doesn't report that.
Maybe, like many, many other software products, versions only report
up-to-dateness in their own context and not that of some later version when it
comes out.

Lew said:
That is very odd, in light of the above.

It just means that you have to investigate what's different between the
setups. I suggest you examine netbeans.conf.

Lew:
Then the behavior observed stems from another cause, unrelated to my
network's speed, as I suspected all along.

Seems likely.
Doubtful, since I see the slow-when-start-page-displayed behavior even
when the system's memory in use is smaller than the total physical
memory available, and separately since it is not a transient state that
goes away after a short time (as it would when something was finished
being swapped in) but persists for as long as the start page is visible.
I most certainly have.

I corrected that typo before you responded.
2GB; and irrelevant (see above)


Haven't touched this file, so this should still be the default, and so
if this were the cause it would affect most copies of NB 6.1. Apparently
most copies are unaffected, which points to the problem being elsewhere.

It is a mystery.
When NB has been foregrounded and in use for an hour plus and the
system's total memory consumption at the time is only around 700MB out
of a physical 1024?

Yes, that militates against that hypothesis.
The slow startup time is not a primary complaint of mine. But it makes
problems that force the user to restart NB to be onerous enough for this
reason that I think suggesting people just resign themselves to
occasionally restarting NB is "not good enough".

Who made that suggestion? Not I.
Why? It is not possible that I've munged this file, for the simple

It's not a question of you "munging" the file, but of it perhaps not being
optimal out of the box.
reason that I've not edited it. (Indeed, didn't know it existed until
this post.) (I assume making some changes in NB's options dialogs might
indirectly alter that file, but those dialogs should trap any attempt to
enter unreasonable values, and I can't recall messing with anything to
do with its memory use or related behaviors.)


I doubt it. When it was doing its CPU-saturating-hang thing I noticed
the process size was upwards of 200 megs. I infer that the -Xmx is 256M
or more, which "ought to be enough", at least for the time being.

The process size is not a reliable indicator of maximum heap, quite the
contrary. It actually indicates that -Xmx is far below 200 MB. Process size
includes class space, the JVM itself and a host of non-heap allocations.
Since my copy's GC parameters are still the factory defaults, if those
GC parameters were the problem, a large proportion of all NB 6.1
installs would be similarly affected, which you claim is not the case.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Or perhaps more people who use NB are modifying
netbeans.conf than you think.

In any event, empirical evidence is best. If you adjust the configuration and
the problem goes away, Bob's your uncle.
 
L

Lew

secret said:
... the jump from NB 6.1 to NB
6.5 seems more like the equivalent of a service pack upgrade to me.

Maybe it seems that way to you, but what counts is how it seems to the folks
over at netbeans.org.
 
L

Lew

secret said:
And even if for some reason it was deemed undesirable for it to
*automatically download and install* a major-version increase, it
certainly is still ridiculous for it to claim to actually be the most
current version when it is not. It should certainly *notify* the user
that a newer version exists, even if perhaps without being able to
download and install it without the user's prompting.

That notification is given. You mentioned that you have certain behaviors
with the start page visible in NetBeans. If you look at that start page, you
will see a headline that reads, "NetBeans IDE 6.5 Now Available for Download".

That's one of the reasons why NB provides a start page, to give such notification.
 
A

Arved Sandstrom

secret decoder ring said:
Arved Sandstrom wrote: [ SNIP ]
And when you're doing Windows Updates on your WinXP installation, does it
upgrade you to Vista?

What are you talking about? You have to pay to upgrade to Vista, so
obviously Windows Update can't do it automatically. You don't, on the
other hand, have to pay to upgrade to NB 6.5.

Furthermore, Windows Update can certainly download XP SP3 and install it
(although I've blocked mine from doing so, because I've heard many bad
things about SP3 and few good things), and the jump from NB 6.1 to NB 6.5
seems more like the equivalent of a service pack upgrade to me.

The jump from NB 6.1 to, say, a future NB 7.0 might be more akin to going
from XP to Vista. (Actually, probably closer to the not-as-major change
from Win95 to Win98, or perhaps that from Win95 to WinME.)

And even that is not a problem for the auto-updater when the new version
is free.

And even if for some reason it was deemed undesirable for it to
*automatically download and install* a major-version increase, it
certainly is still ridiculous for it to claim to actually be the most
current version when it is not. It should certainly *notify* the user that
a newer version exists, even if perhaps without being able to download and
install it without the user's prompting.

For a minor-version increase, the above goes double.

Thing is, when you see a x.y or x.y.z version numbering scheme, you can't
assume that x=major, y=minor, and z=maintenance, or anything else. NetBeans
calls NB 6.5 a "significant update" to NB 6.1, and some people would not
call that a minor version increase. As another example, when JDKs were being
numbered 1.x, an increase in 'x' most certainly was a major release, not a
minor one.

I don't know exactly what the 'y' in NetBeans x.y versioning is...all I know
is that it signifies enough of a change and enough incompatibilities that
the project requires people to do a complete new install. That's all I need
to know.

I still have NB 6.1 - I won't be upgrading for a while. I just tried another
"Check for Updates", and that reported simply that my IDE was up to date,
and that there were no updates available. That is completely different from
claiming that my version of NetBeans is the latest one out there. It just
says that there are no updates available for NB 6.1 that I don't already
have (for my installed stuff). By definition, there are no updates to get
you from NB 6.1 to NB 6.5.

And as others pointed out, the Start Page for 6.1 is crawling with mentions
of 6.5.

AHS
 
G

Gilbert

but I would also look into your swap space allocation, the -Xmx
paramater in your netbeans.conf, and what other apps are running at the
same time.

I notice that in my netbeans.conf for Netbeans 6.5 it says that the -Xmx
parameter is automatically calculated. Is this generally sufficient or
should I be looking to manually override it. (Currently calculates Xmx as
125M on a 640M machine)
 
L

Lew

I notice that in my netbeans.conf for Netbeans 6.5 it says that the -Xmx
parameter is automatically calculated. Is this generally sufficient or
should I be looking to manually override it. (Currently calculates Xmx as

"mx" - "-X" is just the indicator that it's an advanced parameter.
125M on a 640M machine)

You should look into it, but you might not need to override that. Is the
amount allocated sufficient on your machine?

It also depends on what else you're running, e.g., whether you have NB kick
off servers, where the database is running, etc.

How is it that you have 640MB of RAM? RAM sticks are almost always installed
in pairs, and the smallest for modern machines AFAIK are 128 MB. You should
consider 1 GB as minimal for a development machine; 2GB or more is far better.
 

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