New chairman

Discussion in 'Python' started by Sverker Nilsson, May 27, 2008.

  1. seems to be needed

    He doesn't seem to care much anyway now

    Or if he cares, he have many other assignments

    So should we try to elect a new chairman?

    I am probably not eligible. There must be many others.!

    Do you dare?consper

    S.
    Sverker Nilsson, May 27, 2008
    #1
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  2. 2008/5/27 Sverker Nilsson <>:
    > seems to be needed
    >
    > He doesn't seem to care much anyway now
    >
    > Or if he cares, he have many other assignments


    Who are you talking about?

    >
    > So should we try to elect a new chairman?


    Chairman? Elaborate please.

    >
    > I am probably not eligible. There must be many others.!
    >
    > Do you dare?consper
    >


    Hm, are you and castrionpi twin brothers or something?

    > S.
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >




    --
    Wbr, Andrii Mishkovskyi.

    He's got a heart of a little child, and he keeps it in a jar on his desk.
    Andrii V. Mishkovskyi, May 27, 2008
    #2
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  3. I was talking about Guido van Rossum

    The one who decides, so far when people agree

    But we can make a new fork

    He is the originator, but now it seems, for me, it is hanging out in
    the air

    So we need some new leadership

    From somebody, somebody like you perhaps. Or me.

    Sverker


    On May 27, 4:50 pm, "Andrii V. Mishkovskyi" <>
    wrote:
    > 2008/5/27 Sverker Nilsson <>:
    >
    > > seems to be needed

    >
    > > He doesn't seem to care much anyway now

    >
    > > Or if he cares, he have many other assignments

    >
    > Who are you talking about?
    >
    >
    >
    > > So should we try to elect a new chairman?

    >
    > Chairman? Elaborate please.
    >
    >
    >
    > > I am probably not eligible. There must be many others.!

    >
    > > Do you dare?consper

    >
    > Hm, are you and castrionpi twin brothers or something?
    >
    > > S.
    > > --
    > >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

    >
    > --
    > Wbr, Andrii Mishkovskyi.
    >
    > He's got a heart of a little child, and he keeps it in a jar on his desk.
    Sverker Nilsson, May 27, 2008
    #3
  4. Sverker Nilsson wrote:

    > I was talking about Guido van Rossum
    >
    > The one who decides, so far when people agree
    >
    > But we can make a new fork


    Good luck with that. Weren't you the one concerned about changes in Py3K
    that forced you to change your memory profiler? Now you want to introduce a
    *third* codebase beside python2.x and python3.x? Interesting course of
    action.

    > He is the originator, but now it seems, for me, it is hanging out in
    > the air


    Why do you think so? Because you don't like Py3K?

    > So we need some new leadership
    >
    > From somebody, somebody like you perhaps. Or me.


    Well - be my guest to form your own cult.

    Diez
    Diez B. Roggisch, May 27, 2008
    #4
  5. I dont want to be a new Guido. Somebody else please.

    S.


    On May 27, 5:21 pm, Sverker Nilsson <> wrote:
    > I was talking about Guido van Rossum
    >
    > The one who decides, so far when people agree
    >
    > But we can make a new fork
    >
    > He is the originator, but now it seems, for me, it is hanging out in
    > the air
    >
    > So we need some new leadership
    >
    > From somebody, somebody like you perhaps. Or me.
    >
    > Sverker
    >
    > On May 27, 4:50 pm, "Andrii V. Mishkovskyi" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > 2008/5/27 Sverker Nilsson <>:

    >
    > > > seems to be needed

    >
    > > > He doesn't seem to care much anyway now

    >
    > > > Or if he cares, he have many other assignments

    >
    > > Who are you talking about?

    >
    > > > So should we try to elect a new chairman?

    >
    > > Chairman? Elaborate please.

    >
    > > > I am probably not eligible. There must be many others.!

    >
    > > > Do you dare?consper

    >
    > > Hm, are you and castrionpi twin brothers or something?

    >
    > > > S.
    > > > --
    > > >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

    >
    > > --
    > > Wbr, Andrii Mishkovskyi.

    >
    > > He's got a heart of a little child, and he keeps it in a jar on his desk.
    Sverker Nilsson, May 27, 2008
    #5
  6. Good luck to you to. Its just that it .. well it has never been easy
    for me to introduce Python at work. This py3k, if I like it or not, is
    not making it easier.

    Praktical, pragmatic, you know --- as I said, its not broken so lets
    brake it

    I just try to get things to work. And with some style too. Their
    connected. I think a 6 cylinder engine is one of the most stylist
    things there are. And when I was at a museum in Stocholm, I saw Henry
    Fords original enginge and was amazed, it looks just like the one in
    dads car.

    Its not about changing and yes I dislike py3k, till somebody can
    convince me otherwise

    Guido just seems to not care to post here anyways, so we can try to
    make our own branch/business


    S.

    On May 27, 5:24 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <> wrote:
    > Sverker Nilsson wrote:
    > > I was talking about Guido van Rossum

    >
    > > The one who decides, so far when people agree

    >
    > > But we can make a new fork

    >
    > Good luck with that. Weren't you the one concerned about changes in Py3K
    > that forced you to change your memory profiler? Now you want to introduce a
    > *third* codebase beside python2.x and python3.x? Interesting course of
    > action.
    >
    > > He is the originator, but now it seems, for me, it is hanging out in
    > > the air

    >
    > Why do you think so? Because you don't like Py3K?
    >
    > > So we need some new leadership

    >
    > > From somebody, somebody like you perhaps. Or me.

    >
    > Well - be my guest to form your own cult.
    >
    > Diez
    Sverker Nilsson, May 27, 2008
    #6
  7. 2008/5/27 Sverker Nilsson <>:
    > I dont want to be a new Guido. Somebody else please.
    >


    Please, explain why should we fork Python? Because Python 3.0 will
    have 'print' as a function, not as a statement, am I right? Or maybe
    the reason is a major breakage of C API in Python 3.0, so that
    Guppy-PE/Heapy will both need a complete re-write? There is a
    rationale for these changes and you've been told about it several
    times, but you don't care much to listen.
    Well, anyway, nobody stops you from forking a project called
    'Python'. Python is free software, as you know.

    > S.
    >
    >
    > On May 27, 5:21 pm, Sverker Nilsson <> wrote:
    >> I was talking about Guido van Rossum
    >>
    >> The one who decides, so far when people agree
    >>
    >> But we can make a new fork
    >>
    >> He is the originator, but now it seems, for me, it is hanging out in
    >> the air
    >>
    >> So we need some new leadership
    >>
    >> From somebody, somebody like you perhaps. Or me.
    >>
    >> Sverker
    >>
    >> On May 27, 4:50 pm, "Andrii V. Mishkovskyi" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> > 2008/5/27 Sverker Nilsson <>:

    >>
    >> > > seems to be needed

    >>
    >> > > He doesn't seem to care much anyway now

    >>
    >> > > Or if he cares, he have many other assignments

    >>
    >> > Who are you talking about?

    >>
    >> > > So should we try to elect a new chairman?

    >>
    >> > Chairman? Elaborate please.

    >>
    >> > > I am probably not eligible. There must be many others.!

    >>
    >> > > Do you dare?consper

    >>
    >> > Hm, are you and castrionpi twin brothers or something?

    >>
    >> > > S.
    >> > > --
    >> > >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

    >>
    >> > --
    >> > Wbr, Andrii Mishkovskyi.

    >>
    >> > He's got a heart of a little child, and he keeps it in a jar on his desk.

    >
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >




    --
    Wbr, Andrii Mishkovskyi.

    He's got a heart of a little child, and he keeps it in a jar on his desk.
    Andrii V. Mishkovskyi, May 27, 2008
    #7
  8. > Good luck to you to. Its just that it .. well it has never been easy
    > for me to introduce Python at work. This py3k, if I like it or not, is
    > not making it easier.


    And creating a fork makes it easier?

    > Praktical, pragmatic, you know --- as I said, its not broken so lets
    > brake it


    Again - creating a fork makes that better?

    > I just try to get things to work. And with some style too. Their
    > connected. I think a 6 cylinder engine is one of the most stylist
    > things there are. And when I was at a museum in Stocholm, I saw Henry
    > Fords original enginge and was amazed, it looks just like the one in
    > dads car.


    This is a castironpi-esque metaphor. Guess what, I have an ever older one:
    the wheels used by roman circus race wagons essentially look the same as on
    a formula one car. Round, with a hub in the middle.

    Now how about you throw that computers of your out of the window because it
    is technology not available in ancient rome, and as change is bad according
    to your view- away with it!

    > Its not about changing and yes I dislike py3k, till somebody can
    > convince me otherwise
    >
    > Guido just seems to not care to post here anyways, so we can try to
    > make our own branch/business


    Again: how is that going to help?

    You argue that a *fork* is what helps mitigating the problems *a fork called
    Py3K* introduces (in your opinion). Now why do you think your company is
    more likely to adopt the language "Sverker Nilsson his own fork of Python
    that no one else cares about and that won't be supported" - short
    SNHOFOPTNOECAATWBS?

    If you don't like change - stick to python 2.5. Or whatever suits you.

    For the umpteenth time: how is that going to help you with your "don't
    change" issues?

    Diez
    Diez B. Roggisch, May 27, 2008
    #8
  9. Sverker Nilsson

    Matimus Guest

    On May 27, 8:21 am, Sverker Nilsson <> wrote:
    > I was talking about Guido van Rossum
    >
    > The one who decides, so far when people agree
    >
    > But we can make a new fork
    >
    > He is the originator, but now it seems, for me, it is hanging out in
    > the air
    >
    > So we need some new leadership
    >
    > From somebody, somebody like you perhaps. Or me.
    >
    > Sverker
    >
    > On May 27, 4:50 pm, "Andrii V. Mishkovskyi" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > 2008/5/27 Sverker Nilsson <>:

    >
    > > > seems to be needed

    >
    > > > He doesn't seem to care much anyway now

    >
    > > > Or if he cares, he have many other assignments

    >
    > > Who are you talking about?

    >
    > > > So should we try to elect a new chairman?

    >
    > > Chairman? Elaborate please.

    >
    > > > I am probably not eligible. There must be many others.!

    >
    > > > Do you dare?consper

    >
    > > Hm, are you and castrionpi twin brothers or something?

    >
    > > > S.
    > > > --
    > > >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

    >
    > > --
    > > Wbr, Andrii Mishkovskyi.

    >
    > > He's got a heart of a little child, and he keeps it in a jar on his desk..

    >
    >


    Guido is the BDFL: Benevolent Dictator For Life. He was not elected.
    If you want new leadership in Python it won't be done via a vote, it
    will be via a coup. You will need to create your own community (and
    probably fork of Python) that is superior to the existing version. So
    much that people decide to migrate from one to the other.

    Any conversation that leads to such a communal fork would probably
    begin with discussing things that should be done differently in Python
    and garnering support.

    Personally, what I like _most_ about python is the community. Guido
    played a large part in establishing this community. If you put
    together a coherent argument regarding the future of Python people
    will listen, including Guido.

    Matt
    Matimus, May 27, 2008
    #9
  10. I am probably bad too, I just don't think there is a good rationale.
    That's the issue.

    Now I 'have' to leave but keep up the conversation if you like.
    Looking forward to see your comments.

    S.


    On May 27, 5:55 pm, "Andrii V. Mishkovskyi" <>
    wrote:
    > 2008/5/27 Sverker Nilsson <>:
    >
    > > I dont want to be a new Guido. Somebody else please.

    >
    > Please, explain why should we fork Python? Because Python 3.0 will
    > have 'print' as a function, not as a statement, am I right? Or maybe
    > the reason is a major breakage of C API in Python 3.0, so that
    > Guppy-PE/Heapy will both need a complete re-write? There is a
    > rationale for these changes and you've been told about it several
    > times, but you don't care much to listen.
    > Well, anyway, nobody stops you from forking a project called
    > 'Python'. Python is free software, as you know.
    >
    >
    >
    > > S.

    >
    > > On May 27, 5:21 pm, Sverker Nilsson <> wrote:
    > >> I was talking about Guido van Rossum

    >
    > >> The one who decides, so far when people agree

    >
    > >> But we can make a new fork

    >
    > >> He is the originator, but now it seems, for me, it is hanging out in
    > >> the air

    >
    > >> So we need some new leadership

    >
    > >> From somebody, somebody like you perhaps. Or me.

    >
    > >> Sverker

    >
    > >> On May 27, 4:50 pm, "Andrii V. Mishkovskyi" <>
    > >> wrote:

    >
    > >> > 2008/5/27 Sverker Nilsson <>:

    >
    > >> > > seems to be needed

    >
    > >> > > He doesn't seem to care much anyway now

    >
    > >> > > Or if he cares, he have many other assignments

    >
    > >> > Who are you talking about?

    >
    > >> > > So should we try to elect a new chairman?

    >
    > >> > Chairman? Elaborate please.

    >
    > >> > > I am probably not eligible. There must be many others.!

    >
    > >> > > Do you dare?consper

    >
    > >> > Hm, are you and castrionpi twin brothers or something?

    >
    > >> > > S.
    > >> > > --
    > >> > >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

    >
    > >> > --
    > >> > Wbr, Andrii Mishkovskyi.

    >
    > >> > He's got a heart of a little child, and he keeps it in a jar on his desk.

    >
    > > --
    > >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

    >
    > --
    > Wbr, Andrii Mishkovskyi.
    >
    > He's got a heart of a little child, and he keeps it in a jar on his desk.
    Sverker Nilsson, May 27, 2008
    #10
  11. Sverker Nilsson

    Kay Schluehr Guest

    On 27 Mai, 17:21, Sverker Nilsson <> wrote:
    > I was talking about Guido van Rossum
    >
    > The one who decides, so far when people agree
    >
    > But we can make a new fork
    >
    > He is the originator, but now it seems, for me, it is hanging out in
    > the air
    >
    > So we need some new leadership
    >
    > From somebody, somebody like you perhaps. Or me.
    >
    > Sverker


    Not sure what you are talking about? Do you mean that Python 2.X shall
    be advanced independently instead of being some legacy branch while
    Python 3.X is the proposed future of all Python?
    Kay Schluehr, May 27, 2008
    #11
  12. Sverker Nilsson

    Max M Guest

    Sverker Nilsson skrev:
    > I was talking about Guido van Rossum
    >
    > The one who decides, so far when people agree


    I have been using Python since the nineties. I cannot remember when I
    have had to rewrite old code because of changes in the language.

    At the same time I have been feeling as if I was sitting in a time
    machine watching other languages whoosh by at breakneck speed.

    Entire technologies have been developed to make programming as practical
    and easy as it has been in Python the entire time.

    So I find it hard to see exactly what it is that Guido is doing wrong?

    --

    hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

    http://www.mxm.dk/
    IT's Mad Science
    Max M, May 27, 2008
    #12
  13. Sverker Nilsson

    Gary Herron Guest

    Max M wrote:
    > Sverker Nilsson skrev:
    >> I was talking about Guido van Rossum
    >>
    >> The one who decides, so far when people agree

    >
    > I have been using Python since the nineties. I cannot remember when I
    > have had to rewrite old code because of changes in the language.
    >
    > At the same time I have been feeling as if I was sitting in a time
    > machine watching other languages whoosh by at breakneck speed.
    >
    > Entire technologies have been developed to make programming as
    > practical and easy as it has been in Python the entire time.
    >
    > So I find it hard to see exactly what it is that Guido is doing wrong?
    >

    Please don't feed the trolls.
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#Troll_FAQs)
    Gary Herron, May 27, 2008
    #13
  14. Sverker Nilsson

    Benjamin Guest

    On May 27, 10:48 am, Sverker Nilsson <> wrote:
    > Good luck to you to. Its just that it .. well it has never been easy
    > for me to introduce Python at work. This py3k, if I like it or not, is
    > not making it easier.
    >
    > Praktical, pragmatic, you know --- as I said, its not broken so lets
    > brake it
    >
    > I just try to get things to work. And with some style too. Their
    > connected. I think a 6 cylinder engine is one of the most stylist
    > things there are. And when I was at a museum in Stocholm, I saw Henry
    > Fords original enginge and was amazed, it looks just like the one in
    > dads car.
    >
    > Its not about changing and yes I dislike py3k, till somebody can
    > convince me otherwise
    >
    > Guido just seems to not care to post here anyways, so we can try to
    > make our own branch/business


    Do you have any idea how brilliant Guido is? The reason he's not here
    tending to your Python war wounds is that he's busy making important
    decisions on python-dev and python-3000. Maintaining a programming
    language is like raising 50 very unruly children, and Guido has done
    an excellent job.
    Benjamin, May 30, 2008
    #14
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