Newbie wants to self-taught java

[Ramon F Herrera]

> Could you give me two examples how that program far exceeds what is
> available for free?

Mark:

Two examples is one too many. I have one word for you:

Bidirectionality.

We could add concepts like: proper parsing, reflection, introspection,
Swing and SWT support, very smart and intuitive way to visually
communicate with the GUI builder. Oh, in the design of (and learning!)
of layout managers, it is simply perfect. Matisse is such a hack, not
only they have blue (read-only) code which is cast in stone, but they
add magic tags inside the comments!

Specific to Java, of course.

I wrote to them asking for a C++ version. Their answer, and I quote:

We don't have any plans to target C++. Does anyone still use that?

end of quote.

Then I replied "what about a plugin for NetBeans?" They said that
Eclipse owns 75% of the IDE market, and that's where the money (I
would add "future") is.

As far as IDEA, they have a unique approach, similar to "capturing the
output" used by the ancient terminal emulation programs (or 'script'
in Unix). Intriguing, but it doesn't work, for instance with "non-
standard" layouts, where they (JetBrains) decide which layouts are
standard.

But don't take my word for it. Just watch their videos (be patient
because they look non-responsive at the beginning while they load),
and get the 1-month full-featured freebie.

http://www.windowbuilderpro.com/

-Ramon (just a satisfied customer)

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

Could you give me two examples how that program far exceeds what is
available for free? Specific to Java, of course.




There's no way vi can match NetBeans.

> My experience with pay-for tools is that you get a lot less than the
> free components, plus the hassle of vendor-lock in.

In this case the vendor lock-in factor is zero. Unlike Matisse, or the
original (non-Eclipsized) JBuilder which converted the drawing into
very strange (easy for them to parse) Java code, Window Builder
generates code which seems to be written by you. All you have to do is
change the variable names (sometimes not even that as the darn thing
comes up with a perfect name!), and add you extra code. You can pretty
much start and stop using Window Builder at any stage in your project
with no consequences (other than your productivity -not to mention fun
factor- going down).

The tool creator(s) (I may be hyperbolic, but I don't think the
appellative "genious" is too far off the mark) even challenge you to
send them any unparseable code, so they can work on it. I already did,
and they told me: "That is a great idea. Our next release will contain
your suggestion". (No complains about anyone stroking my ego).

Everything looks slick and great until you get half way into it with a
real project, then you find out where they cut corners and why some
other library critical to your project is inherently incompatible with
any real-world use of your pricey tool.

They don't use any libraries, they just parse you code.

Pricey? The thing will pay for itself in ONE use (don't remember the
price, though).

-Ramon

 

[Mark Space]

But don't take my word for it. Just watch their videos (be patient
because they look non-responsive at the beginning while they load),
and get the 1-month full-featured freebie.

http://www.windowbuilderpro.com/

I don't see any videos on that page.....

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

I don't see any videos on that page.....

Click on the left side, on a folder called "Demos" under "Screen
Shots".

I would label it "Video Demos" to attract the impatient XGen
programmers.

Note: I reserve the right to later become a devil's advocate and say
my (few!) complaints about Window Builder.

We don't want them to become too smug...

-Ramon

 

[Mark Space]

Click on the left side, on a folder called "Demos" under "Screen
Shots".

I would label it "Video Demos" to attract the impatient XGen
programmers.

Ah, that script is being hosted on another site, instantiations.com. My
script blocker wouldn't run it since it didn't come from the host site.

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

Ah, that script is being hosted on another site, instantiations.com. My
script blocker wouldn't run it since it didn't come from the host site.

We eagerly await your verdict. Will go concur? Did I go overboard
singing that product's praises?

Perhaps I "spiced it up a bit"?

-RFH

 

[Mark Space]

We eagerly await your verdict. Will go concur? Did I go overboard
singing that product's praises?

Perhaps I "spiced it up a bit"?

Well I looked at one, the Swing demo, since I don't do SWT. I was not
super impressed. First, it largely seemed to be a clone of Matisse.
Everything looked very familiar. Second thing was I don't use or like
the Border or Grid layouts personally, I wished they had shown something
else.

I'd also like to see how it goes from sources for gui classes to the
editor. I didn't see a demo for that.

Also while watching I remember what I didn't care for about Eclipse,
their windowing "view" system is complicated and gets in my way. I'll
have to learn Eclipse eventually but it just seems complicated rather
than powerful. I don't like systems with too many options or that try
to do everything. I prefer that the system get it right on it's own
without a lot of user fiddling.

Anyhoo, it doesn't look like I'm missing much. Maybe some day I'll
download the trial version and give it a work out. I don't have time
right now though....