Newsgroup Moderation (Particularly relevant to comp.lang.c++.moderated, comp.std.c++)

T

Ted

Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that it doesn't
become censorship? Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled to allow
group readers the choice of whether to read or filter the moderated posts? The other
possibility is to create another/other groups that have the moderated posts put in them
(by moderators or posters): comp.moderatedposts, for example.

Ted
 
M

Michiel.Salters

Ted said:
Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that it doesn't
become censorship?

There is : unmoderated groups. Censorship deletes the message,
moderation
only determines which messages can go where.
Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled to allow
group readers the choice of whether to read or filter the moderated posts? The other
possibility is to create another/other groups that have the moderated posts put in them
(by moderators or posters): comp.moderatedposts, for example.

Why do you want to put all moderated articles in one group? I'd like to
keep the
moderated C++ posts in clc++m. Much easier. As to rejected messages,
I'd say
the author (and not all possible readers) should decide what the next
best thing
is - rewrite, repost to another (moderated) group where it's on-topic,
or simply
forget it.

HTH,
Michiel Salters
 
A

Alf P. Steinbach

* (e-mail address removed):
There is : unmoderated groups. Censorship deletes the message,
moderation
only determines which messages can go where.


Why do you want to put all moderated articles in one group? I'd like to
keep the
moderated C++ posts in clc++m. Much easier. As to rejected messages,
I'd say
the author (and not all possible readers) should decide what the next
best thing
is - rewrite, repost to another (moderated) group where it's on-topic,
or simply
forget it.

Some rejections are for off-topicality, some are for "heat", and some
are like the one below, where my reply to you was rejected:

Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c++.moderated
From: "Alf P. Steinbach" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Iteration with unsigned integral type
Organization: unknown
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:55:36 +0100
X-Submission-Address: (e-mail address removed)

{ It's a witty reply ;-) , but I'm afraid it doesn't actually add
anything technical to the tread. -mod }

* (e-mail address removed):
> > Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> > if you want to enumerate all bit patterns that can occur for a
>> >> size_t, or for any integral type T, in a single loop, then you
>> >> need some
>> >> loop state in addition to a T, whether T is int or char or size_t
>> >> or...
> >
> > No, you dont:
> >
> > unsigned int i = 0;
> > do {
> > foo(i);
> > } while (0 != ++i);
> >
> > The only case in which you need additional loop state is when you
> > use a
> > test-first
> > loop (as that must support lengths [0..N] inclusive, i.e. N+1 states)

Oink.

(That means, I sit corrected.)
 
T

Ted

There is : unmoderated groups. Censorship deletes the message,
moderation
only determines which messages can go where.


Why do you want to put all moderated articles in one group? I'd like to
keep the
moderated C++ posts in clc++m. Much easier.

I offered it as a SECOND option.
As to rejected messages,

Oh, I was using "moderated messages" as rejected ones.
I'd say
the author (and not all possible readers) should decide what the next
best thing
is - rewrite, repost to another (moderated) group where it's on-topic,
or simply
forget it.

The problem I have with that is that it becomes too easy for "moderators"
to abuse their positions. The check on "moderation" is to see what is being
moderated-out.

Ted
 
D

Default User

Ted said:
Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that
it doesn't become censorship?


This is pretty dopey. If you don't like the moderation policies of a
moderated newsgroup or forum, don't use it. There are certainly no
shortage non-moderated newsgroups on various topics.

Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled
to allow group readers the choice of whether to
read or filter the moderated posts?

I don't think moderators should alter posts in any way. Accept or
reject are the only sensible avenues.
The other possibility is to
create another/other groups that have the moderated posts put in them
(by moderators or posters): comp.moderatedposts, for example.

What, all posts from EVERY moderated comp newsgroup on usenet? All
mixed together in a bucket, eggs on top, don't skimp on the pate? Silly.


You don't really seem to have much of an idea. What happened, get some
posts canned and now you're all in a huff about it? Grow up, that's my
advice. Moderating a newsgroup is about the most thankless task I can
imagine on usenet, I wouldn't touch that job with 1024 foot pole. If
you don't like clc++m, just post here. Take your chances.



Brian
 
A

andy

Ted said:
The problem I have with that is that it becomes too easy for "moderators"
to abuse their positions. The check on "moderation" is to see what is being
moderated-out.

What did you "post" that got moderated out ?

regards
Andy Little
 
T

Ted

Default User said:
This is pretty dopey. If you don't like the moderation policies of a
moderated newsgroup or forum, don't use it. There are certainly no
shortage non-moderated newsgroups on various topics.



I don't think moderators should alter posts in any way. Accept or
reject are the only sensible avenues.

I don't see any problem with doing something like:

Original title: C++ Scandal?!
Moderated title: [Moderated] C++ Scandal?!

A better solution than a separate group I think. The separate group would
only be required to allow posters their 5th amendment rights when the
"moderators" were actually suppressing thoughts by not allowing posts
within a group. Seeing all rejected/moderated posts would give more
insight as to what the group is. Not being allowed to see those posts is
cause for suspicion.
What, all posts from EVERY moderated comp newsgroup on usenet? All
mixed together in a bucket, eggs on top, don't skimp on the pate? Silly.

Obviously I didn't think one group for all moderated posts was doable either:
that's why I implied at some smaller granularity (comp.moderatedposts).
You don't really seem to have much of an idea.

Your entitled to your opinion. I think it's a valid and topical issue in general
and not just because I've been "moderated". Unchecked moderation has
potential undesireable aspects that the unnitiated can fall prey to.
What happened, get some
posts canned and now you're all in a huff about it?

I don't "get in a huff". But it's certainly something that has me saying "hmm.."
at this point.
Grow up, that's my
advice.

You should "grow up" by not trying to suppress dialog in threads where YOU
don't wish to discuss. Examine your own behavior above.
Moderating a newsgroup is about the most thankless task I can
imagine on usenet, I wouldn't touch that job with 1024 foot pole. If
you don't like clc++m, just post here. Take your chances.

Ted
 
N

Noah Roberts

Ted said:
10 or so replies in the "Overuse of Templates" thread.

Well, if they are anything like the troll shit you're spewing here then
it is not at all surprising that it is moderated out. People go to
moderated groups to avoid trollish boobs so the moderators are just
doing their part. If you want to troll you are now in the right
place...this group is unmoderated and feeds its trolls quite well.

Have fun ;)
 
T

Ted

Noah Roberts said:
Well, if they are anything like the troll shit you're spewing here

Try listening sometime. You may learn something beyond tinker toy assembly
that way.

(I have little patience for juvenille antics).

Ted
 
A

andy

Ted said:
10 or so replies in the "Overuse of Templates" thread.

Why not post at least 1 example here so we can see what you are upset
about. Perhaps then we can all join together and complain to the
comp.lang.c++.moderators about your unfair treatment. hmmm... we might
even need to start some sort of worldwide campaign
"Comp.lang.c++.moderators... Stop persecuting Ted! We Demand Ted be
heard!". Would that help?

regards
Andy Little
 
T

Ted

Why not post at least 1 example here so we can see what you are upset
about. Perhaps then we can all join together and complain to the
comp.lang.c++.moderators about your unfair treatment. hmmm... we might
even need to start some sort of worldwide campaign
"Comp.lang.c++.moderators... Stop persecuting Ted! We Demand Ted be
heard!". Would that help?

You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility you
have with me though by being so juvenile. Your M.O.: make it look like he is
taking it personally rather than concerned about the facts/info. I perceive the
"moderation" as doing what you just did: someone says something you don't
like so you censor the info because you have "lord of the flies" ability to do
so. That's very petty. Not very becoming of a group of supposed engineers.

Ted
 
P

Phlip

Ted said:
You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility
you
have with me though by being so juvenile. Your M.O.: make it look like he
is
taking it personally rather than concerned about the facts/info. I
perceive the
"moderation" as doing what you just did: someone says something you don't
like so you censor the info because you have "lord of the flies" ability
to do
so. That's very petty. Not very becoming of a group of supposed engineers.

Please come down off that cross. We need to use the wood.
 
A

andy

Ted said:
You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility you
have with me though by being so juvenile. Your M.O.: make it look like he is
taking it personally rather than concerned about the facts/info. I perceive the
"moderation" as doing what you just did: someone says something you don't
like so you censor the info because you have "lord of the flies" ability to do
so. That's very petty. Not very becoming of a group of supposed engineers.

You're an interesting guy Ted. Well actually AFAICS youre a complete
Whacko. I have no idea what youre last paragraph is supposed to be
about. But hey! .. be sure keep to pumping this stuff out. The more
you post, the more I'll look forward to winding you up and watching you
go WheeeeeeeeeH !

cheers
Andy Little
 
T

Ted

You're an interesting guy Ted. Well actually AFAICS youre a complete
Whacko. I have no idea what youre last paragraph is supposed to be
about. But hey! .. be sure keep to pumping this stuff out. The more
you post, the more I'll look forward to winding you up and watching you
go WheeeeeeeeeH !

I should know better than to try and have a conversation with tech support
about anything other than the nuts-n-bolts.

Ted
 
N

Noah Roberts

Ted said:
You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility you
have with me though by being so juvenile.

That's rich comming from you. I'm sure andy is just devistated that
his credibility is ruined with you.

Your lips are flapping, but nothing useful is comming out.

If I was modding I would just set you on permanent reject. I wouldn't
even read your responses anymore as I have seen enough that I know none
of them are worth reading; maybe that is the problem you have run into.
Every post of yours is off topic, inflamitory, ignorant, self deluded,
self pitying, jibberish. Stop crying and grow up.
 
T

Ted

Noah Roberts said:
That's rich comming from you. I'm sure andy is just devistated that
his credibility is ruined with you.

Your lips are flapping, but nothing useful is comming out.

If I was modding I would just set you on permanent reject. I wouldn't
even read your responses anymore as I have seen enough that I know none
of them are worth reading; maybe that is the problem you have run into.
Every post of yours is off topic, inflamitory, ignorant, self deluded,
self pitying, jibberish. Stop crying and grow up.

LOL. Read YOUR posts, then compare them to mine which actually try to
address an issue.

Ted
 
R

Richard Herring

Ted said:
Default User said:
This is pretty dopey. If you don't like the moderation policies of a
moderated newsgroup or forum, don't use it. There are certainly no
shortage non-moderated newsgroups on various topics.



I don't think moderators should alter posts in any way. Accept or
reject are the only sensible avenues.

I don't see any problem with doing something like:

Original title: C++ Scandal?!
Moderated title: [Moderated] C++ Scandal?!

A better solution than a separate group I think. The separate group would
only be required to allow posters their 5th amendment rights

"5th amendment rights"? I wasn't aware that newsgroup moderators had
quite such sweeping powers as the US federal government...
when the
"moderators" were actually suppressing thoughts by not allowing posts
within a group.

.... nor that rejecting posts constituted suppressing thoughts.
Seeing all rejected/moderated posts would give more
insight as to what the group is. Not being allowed to see those posts is
cause for suspicion.

Then you should propose your suggestion in an appropriate place, which I
guess would be somewhere in the news.admin.* hierarchy.
 
D

Default User

Richard said:
In message <[email protected]>, Ted


"5th amendment rights"? I wasn't aware that newsgroup moderators had
quite such sweeping powers as the US federal government...

Well, if newsgroup moderators are violating this:

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous
crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in
cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in
actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be
subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or
limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness
against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without
due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use,
without just compensation.


Then something indeed should be done.




Brian
 
T

Ted

Richard Herring said:
Default User said:
Ted wrote:

Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that
it doesn't become censorship?


This is pretty dopey. If you don't like the moderation policies of a
moderated newsgroup or forum, don't use it. There are certainly no
shortage non-moderated newsgroups on various topics.


Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled
to allow group readers the choice of whether to
read or filter the moderated posts?

I don't think moderators should alter posts in any way. Accept or
reject are the only sensible avenues.

I don't see any problem with doing something like:

Original title: C++ Scandal?!
Moderated title: [Moderated] C++ Scandal?!

A better solution than a separate group I think. The separate group would
only be required to allow posters their 5th amendment rights

"5th amendment rights"? I wasn't aware that newsgroup moderators had quite such sweeping powers as the US federal
government...
Literalist.
when the
"moderators" were actually suppressing thoughts by not allowing posts
within a group.

... nor that rejecting posts constituted suppressing thoughts.
Seeing all rejected/moderated posts would give more
insight as to what the group is. Not being allowed to see those posts is
cause for suspicion.

Then you should propose your suggestion in an appropriate place, which I guess would be somewhere in the news.admin.*
hierarchy.

It's really up to the individual groups first. I really don't see a problem with
prepending '[moderated]' to a post. It would then be up to the newsgroup
readers to decide whether or not to read/participate in the thread. I suggested
it to clc++m but I don't think they give a hoot. (I think they have a facade they
want to maintain across the whole of the posts there. Unintentional perturbation
of the system there made some things apparent and gave me a new outlook on
the industry that is C++).

Ted
 

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