Newsgroup Moderation (Particularly relevant to comp.lang.c++.moderated, comp.std.c++)

Discussion in 'C++' started by Ted, Mar 24, 2006.

  1. Ted

    Ted Guest

    Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that it doesn't
    become censorship? Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled to allow
    group readers the choice of whether to read or filter the moderated posts? The other
    possibility is to create another/other groups that have the moderated posts put in them
    (by moderators or posters): comp.moderatedposts, for example.

    Ted
    Ted, Mar 24, 2006
    #1
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  2. Ted

    Guest

    Ted wrote:
    > Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that it doesn't
    > become censorship?


    There is : unmoderated groups. Censorship deletes the message,
    moderation
    only determines which messages can go where.

    > Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled to allow
    > group readers the choice of whether to read or filter the moderated posts? The other
    > possibility is to create another/other groups that have the moderated posts put in them
    > (by moderators or posters): comp.moderatedposts, for example.


    Why do you want to put all moderated articles in one group? I'd like to
    keep the
    moderated C++ posts in clc++m. Much easier. As to rejected messages,
    I'd say
    the author (and not all possible readers) should decide what the next
    best thing
    is - rewrite, repost to another (moderated) group where it's on-topic,
    or simply
    forget it.

    HTH,
    Michiel Salters
    , Mar 24, 2006
    #2
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  3. Re: Newsgroup Moderation (Particularly relevant to comp.lang.c++.moderated,comp.std.c++)

    * :
    > Ted wrote:
    >> Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that it doesn't
    >> become censorship?

    >
    > There is : unmoderated groups. Censorship deletes the message,
    > moderation
    > only determines which messages can go where.
    >
    >> Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled to allow
    >> group readers the choice of whether to read or filter the moderated posts? The other
    >> possibility is to create another/other groups that have the moderated posts put in them
    >> (by moderators or posters): comp.moderatedposts, for example.

    >
    > Why do you want to put all moderated articles in one group? I'd like to
    > keep the
    > moderated C++ posts in clc++m. Much easier. As to rejected messages,
    > I'd say
    > the author (and not all possible readers) should decide what the next
    > best thing
    > is - rewrite, repost to another (moderated) group where it's on-topic,
    > or simply
    > forget it.


    Some rejections are for off-topicality, some are for "heat", and some
    are like the one below, where my reply to you was rejected:

    Message-ID: <>
    Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c++.moderated
    From: "Alf P. Steinbach" <>
    Subject: Re: Iteration with unsigned integral type
    Organization: unknown
    References: <>
    <>
    <dvpuj1$jpj$>
    <>
    <>
    X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:55:36 +0100
    X-Submission-Address:

    { It's a witty reply ;-) , but I'm afraid it doesn't actually add
    anything technical to the tread. -mod }

    * :
    > > Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
    > > if you want to enumerate all bit patterns that can occur for a
    >> >> size_t, or for any integral type T, in a single loop, then you
    >> >> need some
    >> >> loop state in addition to a T, whether T is int or char or size_t
    >> >> or...

    > >
    > > No, you dont:
    > >
    > > unsigned int i = 0;
    > > do {
    > > foo(i);
    > > } while (0 != ++i);
    > >
    > > The only case in which you need additional loop state is when you
    > > use a
    > > test-first
    > > loop (as that must support lengths [0..N] inclusive, i.e. N+1 states)


    Oink.

    (That means, I sit corrected.)

    --
    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is it such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
    Alf P. Steinbach, Mar 24, 2006
    #3
  4. Ted

    Ted Guest

    <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > Ted wrote:
    >> Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that it doesn't
    >> become censorship?

    >
    > There is : unmoderated groups. Censorship deletes the message,
    > moderation
    > only determines which messages can go where.
    >
    >> Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled to allow
    >> group readers the choice of whether to read or filter the moderated posts? The other
    >> possibility is to create another/other groups that have the moderated posts put in them
    >> (by moderators or posters): comp.moderatedposts, for example.

    >
    > Why do you want to put all moderated articles in one group? I'd like to
    > keep the
    > moderated C++ posts in clc++m. Much easier.


    I offered it as a SECOND option.

    > As to rejected messages,


    Oh, I was using "moderated messages" as rejected ones.

    > I'd say
    > the author (and not all possible readers) should decide what the next
    > best thing
    > is - rewrite, repost to another (moderated) group where it's on-topic,
    > or simply
    > forget it.


    The problem I have with that is that it becomes too easy for "moderators"
    to abuse their positions. The check on "moderation" is to see what is being
    moderated-out.

    Ted
    Ted, Mar 24, 2006
    #4
  5. Ted

    Default User Guest

    Ted wrote:

    > Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that
    > it doesn't become censorship?



    This is pretty dopey. If you don't like the moderation policies of a
    moderated newsgroup or forum, don't use it. There are certainly no
    shortage non-moderated newsgroups on various topics.


    > Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled
    > to allow group readers the choice of whether to
    > read or filter the moderated posts?


    I don't think moderators should alter posts in any way. Accept or
    reject are the only sensible avenues.

    > The other possibility is to
    > create another/other groups that have the moderated posts put in them
    > (by moderators or posters): comp.moderatedposts, for example.


    What, all posts from EVERY moderated comp newsgroup on usenet? All
    mixed together in a bucket, eggs on top, don't skimp on the pate? Silly.


    You don't really seem to have much of an idea. What happened, get some
    posts canned and now you're all in a huff about it? Grow up, that's my
    advice. Moderating a newsgroup is about the most thankless task I can
    imagine on usenet, I wouldn't touch that job with 1024 foot pole. If
    you don't like clc++m, just post here. Take your chances.



    Brian
    Default User, Mar 24, 2006
    #5
  6. Ted

    Guest

    Ted wrote:

    > The problem I have with that is that it becomes too easy for "moderators"
    > to abuse their positions. The check on "moderation" is to see what is being
    > moderated-out.


    What did you "post" that got moderated out ?

    regards
    Andy Little
    , Mar 24, 2006
    #6
  7. Ted

    Ted Guest

    "Default User" <> wrote in message news:...
    > Ted wrote:
    >
    >> Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that
    >> it doesn't become censorship?

    >
    >
    > This is pretty dopey. If you don't like the moderation policies of a
    > moderated newsgroup or forum, don't use it. There are certainly no
    > shortage non-moderated newsgroups on various topics.
    >
    >
    >> Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled
    >> to allow group readers the choice of whether to
    >> read or filter the moderated posts?

    >
    > I don't think moderators should alter posts in any way. Accept or
    > reject are the only sensible avenues.


    I don't see any problem with doing something like:

    Original title: C++ Scandal?!
    Moderated title: [Moderated] C++ Scandal?!

    A better solution than a separate group I think. The separate group would
    only be required to allow posters their 5th amendment rights when the
    "moderators" were actually suppressing thoughts by not allowing posts
    within a group. Seeing all rejected/moderated posts would give more
    insight as to what the group is. Not being allowed to see those posts is
    cause for suspicion.

    >> The other possibility is to
    >> create another/other groups that have the moderated posts put in them
    >> (by moderators or posters): comp.moderatedposts, for example.

    >
    > What, all posts from EVERY moderated comp newsgroup on usenet? All
    > mixed together in a bucket, eggs on top, don't skimp on the pate? Silly.


    Obviously I didn't think one group for all moderated posts was doable either:
    that's why I implied at some smaller granularity (comp.moderatedposts).

    > You don't really seem to have much of an idea.


    Your entitled to your opinion. I think it's a valid and topical issue in general
    and not just because I've been "moderated". Unchecked moderation has
    potential undesireable aspects that the unnitiated can fall prey to.

    > What happened, get some
    > posts canned and now you're all in a huff about it?


    I don't "get in a huff". But it's certainly something that has me saying "hmm.."
    at this point.

    > Grow up, that's my
    > advice.


    You should "grow up" by not trying to suppress dialog in threads where YOU
    don't wish to discuss. Examine your own behavior above.

    > Moderating a newsgroup is about the most thankless task I can
    > imagine on usenet, I wouldn't touch that job with 1024 foot pole. If
    > you don't like clc++m, just post here. Take your chances.


    Ted
    Ted, Mar 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Ted

    Ted Guest

    <> wrote in message news:...
    > Ted wrote:
    >
    >> The problem I have with that is that it becomes too easy for "moderators"
    >> to abuse their positions. The check on "moderation" is to see what is being
    >> moderated-out.

    >
    > What did you "post" that got moderated out ?


    10 or so replies in the "Overuse of Templates" thread.

    Ted
    Ted, Mar 24, 2006
    #8
  9. Ted

    Noah Roberts Guest

    Ted wrote:
    > <> wrote in message news:...
    > > Ted wrote:
    > >
    > >> The problem I have with that is that it becomes too easy for "moderators"
    > >> to abuse their positions. The check on "moderation" is to see what is being
    > >> moderated-out.

    > >
    > > What did you "post" that got moderated out ?

    >
    > 10 or so replies in the "Overuse of Templates" thread.


    Well, if they are anything like the troll shit you're spewing here then
    it is not at all surprising that it is moderated out. People go to
    moderated groups to avoid trollish boobs so the moderators are just
    doing their part. If you want to troll you are now in the right
    place...this group is unmoderated and feeds its trolls quite well.

    Have fun ;)
    Noah Roberts, Mar 24, 2006
    #9
  10. Ted

    Ted Guest

    "Noah Roberts" <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > Ted wrote:
    >> <> wrote in message news:...
    >> > Ted wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> The problem I have with that is that it becomes too easy for "moderators"
    >> >> to abuse their positions. The check on "moderation" is to see what is being
    >> >> moderated-out.
    >> >
    >> > What did you "post" that got moderated out ?

    >>
    >> 10 or so replies in the "Overuse of Templates" thread.

    >
    > Well, if they are anything like the troll shit you're spewing here


    Try listening sometime. You may learn something beyond tinker toy assembly
    that way.

    (I have little patience for juvenille antics).

    Ted
    Ted, Mar 24, 2006
    #10
  11. Ted

    Guest

    Ted wrote:
    > <> wrote in message news:...
    > > Ted wrote:
    > >
    > >> The problem I have with that is that it becomes too easy for "moderators"
    > >> to abuse their positions. The check on "moderation" is to see what is being
    > >> moderated-out.

    > >
    > > What did you "post" that got moderated out ?

    >
    > 10 or so replies in the "Overuse of Templates" thread.


    Why not post at least 1 example here so we can see what you are upset
    about. Perhaps then we can all join together and complain to the
    comp.lang.c++.moderators about your unfair treatment. hmmm... we might
    even need to start some sort of worldwide campaign
    "Comp.lang.c++.moderators... Stop persecuting Ted! We Demand Ted be
    heard!". Would that help?

    regards
    Andy Little
    , Mar 25, 2006
    #11
  12. Ted

    Ted Guest

    <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > Ted wrote:
    >> <> wrote in message news:...
    >> > Ted wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> The problem I have with that is that it becomes too easy for "moderators"
    >> >> to abuse their positions. The check on "moderation" is to see what is being
    >> >> moderated-out.
    >> >
    >> > What did you "post" that got moderated out ?

    >>
    >> 10 or so replies in the "Overuse of Templates" thread.

    >
    > Why not post at least 1 example here so we can see what you are upset
    > about. Perhaps then we can all join together and complain to the
    > comp.lang.c++.moderators about your unfair treatment. hmmm... we might
    > even need to start some sort of worldwide campaign
    > "Comp.lang.c++.moderators... Stop persecuting Ted! We Demand Ted be
    > heard!". Would that help?


    You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility you
    have with me though by being so juvenile. Your M.O.: make it look like he is
    taking it personally rather than concerned about the facts/info. I perceive the
    "moderation" as doing what you just did: someone says something you don't
    like so you censor the info because you have "lord of the flies" ability to do
    so. That's very petty. Not very becoming of a group of supposed engineers.

    Ted
    Ted, Mar 25, 2006
    #12
  13. Ted

    Phlip Guest

    Ted wrote:

    > You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility
    > you
    > have with me though by being so juvenile. Your M.O.: make it look like he
    > is
    > taking it personally rather than concerned about the facts/info. I
    > perceive the
    > "moderation" as doing what you just did: someone says something you don't
    > like so you censor the info because you have "lord of the flies" ability
    > to do
    > so. That's very petty. Not very becoming of a group of supposed engineers.


    Please come down off that cross. We need to use the wood.

    --
    Phlip
    http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
    Phlip, Mar 25, 2006
    #13
  14. Ted

    Guest

    Ted wrote:

    > You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility you
    > have with me though by being so juvenile. Your M.O.: make it look like he is
    > taking it personally rather than concerned about the facts/info. I perceive the
    > "moderation" as doing what you just did: someone says something you don't
    > like so you censor the info because you have "lord of the flies" ability to do
    > so. That's very petty. Not very becoming of a group of supposed engineers.


    You're an interesting guy Ted. Well actually AFAICS youre a complete
    Whacko. I have no idea what youre last paragraph is supposed to be
    about. But hey! .. be sure keep to pumping this stuff out. The more
    you post, the more I'll look forward to winding you up and watching you
    go WheeeeeeeeeH !

    cheers
    Andy Little
    , Mar 25, 2006
    #14
  15. Ted

    Ted Guest

    <> wrote in message news:...
    > Ted wrote:
    >
    >> You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility you
    >> have with me though by being so juvenile. Your M.O.: make it look like he is
    >> taking it personally rather than concerned about the facts/info. I perceive the
    >> "moderation" as doing what you just did: someone says something you don't
    >> like so you censor the info because you have "lord of the flies" ability to do
    >> so. That's very petty. Not very becoming of a group of supposed engineers.

    >
    > You're an interesting guy Ted. Well actually AFAICS youre a complete
    > Whacko. I have no idea what youre last paragraph is supposed to be
    > about. But hey! .. be sure keep to pumping this stuff out. The more
    > you post, the more I'll look forward to winding you up and watching you
    > go WheeeeeeeeeH !


    I should know better than to try and have a conversation with tech support
    about anything other than the nuts-n-bolts.

    Ted
    Ted, Mar 26, 2006
    #15
  16. Ted

    Noah Roberts Guest

    Ted wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    > > Why not post at least 1 example here so we can see what you are upset
    > > about. Perhaps then we can all join together and complain to the
    > > comp.lang.c++.moderators about your unfair treatment. hmmm... we might
    > > even need to start some sort of worldwide campaign
    > > "Comp.lang.c++.moderators... Stop persecuting Ted! We Demand Ted be
    > > heard!". Would that help?

    >
    > You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility you
    > have with me though by being so juvenile.


    That's rich comming from you. I'm sure andy is just devistated that
    his credibility is ruined with you.

    Your lips are flapping, but nothing useful is comming out.

    If I was modding I would just set you on permanent reject. I wouldn't
    even read your responses anymore as I have seen enough that I know none
    of them are worth reading; maybe that is the problem you have run into.
    Every post of yours is off topic, inflamitory, ignorant, self deluded,
    self pitying, jibberish. Stop crying and grow up.
    Noah Roberts, Mar 26, 2006
    #16
  17. Ted

    Ted Guest

    "Noah Roberts" <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > Ted wrote:
    >> <> wrote in message
    >> > Why not post at least 1 example here so we can see what you are upset
    >> > about. Perhaps then we can all join together and complain to the
    >> > comp.lang.c++.moderators about your unfair treatment. hmmm... we might
    >> > even need to start some sort of worldwide campaign
    >> > "Comp.lang.c++.moderators... Stop persecuting Ted! We Demand Ted be
    >> > heard!". Would that help?

    >>
    >> You can twist it anyway you want. It certainly undermines any credibility you
    >> have with me though by being so juvenile.

    >
    > That's rich comming from you. I'm sure andy is just devistated that
    > his credibility is ruined with you.
    >
    > Your lips are flapping, but nothing useful is comming out.
    >
    > If I was modding I would just set you on permanent reject. I wouldn't
    > even read your responses anymore as I have seen enough that I know none
    > of them are worth reading; maybe that is the problem you have run into.
    > Every post of yours is off topic, inflamitory, ignorant, self deluded,
    > self pitying, jibberish. Stop crying and grow up.


    LOL. Read YOUR posts, then compare them to mine which actually try to
    address an issue.

    Ted
    Ted, Mar 26, 2006
    #17
  18. In message <3tYUf.58970$>, Ted
    <> writes
    >
    >"Default User" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Ted wrote:
    >>
    >>> Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that
    >>> it doesn't become censorship?

    >>
    >>
    >> This is pretty dopey. If you don't like the moderation policies of a
    >> moderated newsgroup or forum, don't use it. There are certainly no
    >> shortage non-moderated newsgroups on various topics.
    >>
    >>
    >>> Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled
    >>> to allow group readers the choice of whether to
    >>> read or filter the moderated posts?

    >>
    >> I don't think moderators should alter posts in any way. Accept or
    >> reject are the only sensible avenues.

    >
    >I don't see any problem with doing something like:
    >
    >Original title: C++ Scandal?!
    >Moderated title: [Moderated] C++ Scandal?!
    >
    >A better solution than a separate group I think. The separate group would
    >only be required to allow posters their 5th amendment rights


    "5th amendment rights"? I wasn't aware that newsgroup moderators had
    quite such sweeping powers as the US federal government...

    >when the
    >"moderators" were actually suppressing thoughts by not allowing posts
    >within a group.


    .... nor that rejecting posts constituted suppressing thoughts.

    >Seeing all rejected/moderated posts would give more
    >insight as to what the group is. Not being allowed to see those posts is
    >cause for suspicion.


    Then you should propose your suggestion in an appropriate place, which I
    guess would be somewhere in the news.admin.* hierarchy.

    --
    Richard Herring
    Richard Herring, Mar 29, 2006
    #18
  19. Ted

    Default User Guest

    Richard Herring wrote:

    > In message <3tYUf.58970$>, Ted
    > <> writes


    > > A better solution than a separate group I think. The separate group
    > > would only be required to allow posters their 5th amendment rights

    >
    > "5th amendment rights"? I wasn't aware that newsgroup moderators had
    > quite such sweeping powers as the US federal government...


    Well, if newsgroup moderators are violating this:

    Amendment V
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous
    crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in
    cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in
    actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be
    subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or
    limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness
    against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without
    due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use,
    without just compensation.


    Then something indeed should be done.




    Brian
    Default User, Mar 29, 2006
    #19
  20. Ted

    Ted Guest

    "Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:W$...
    > In message <3tYUf.58970$>, Ted <> writes
    >>
    >>"Default User" <> wrote in message news:...
    >>> Ted wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Doesn't newgroup moderation need a check placed on it to ensure that
    >>>> it doesn't become censorship?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> This is pretty dopey. If you don't like the moderation policies of a
    >>> moderated newsgroup or forum, don't use it. There are certainly no
    >>> shortage non-moderated newsgroups on various topics.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Instead of dropping posts, shouldn't they just be retitled
    >>>> to allow group readers the choice of whether to
    >>>> read or filter the moderated posts?
    >>>
    >>> I don't think moderators should alter posts in any way. Accept or
    >>> reject are the only sensible avenues.

    >>
    >>I don't see any problem with doing something like:
    >>
    >>Original title: C++ Scandal?!
    >>Moderated title: [Moderated] C++ Scandal?!
    >>
    >>A better solution than a separate group I think. The separate group would
    >>only be required to allow posters their 5th amendment rights

    >
    > "5th amendment rights"? I wasn't aware that newsgroup moderators had quite such sweeping powers as the US federal
    > government...


    Literalist.

    >
    >>when the
    >>"moderators" were actually suppressing thoughts by not allowing posts
    >>within a group.

    >
    > ... nor that rejecting posts constituted suppressing thoughts.
    >
    >>Seeing all rejected/moderated posts would give more
    >>insight as to what the group is. Not being allowed to see those posts is
    >>cause for suspicion.

    >
    > Then you should propose your suggestion in an appropriate place, which I guess would be somewhere in the news.admin.*
    > hierarchy.


    It's really up to the individual groups first. I really don't see a problem with
    prepending '[moderated]' to a post. It would then be up to the newsgroup
    readers to decide whether or not to read/participate in the thread. I suggested
    it to clc++m but I don't think they give a hoot. (I think they have a facade they
    want to maintain across the whole of the posts there. Unintentional perturbation
    of the system there made some things apparent and gave me a new outlook on
    the industry that is C++).

    Ted
    Ted, Mar 30, 2006
    #20
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