No alts in firefox?

  • Thread starter Starshine Moonbeam
  • Start date
S

Starshine Moonbeam

Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing I
noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?
 
B

Barbara de Zoete

Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing I
noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?

If you mean alt text to show up as a tooltip: That's one of the
(mis)interpretations of IE. FF doesn't show them, because they're not supposed
to be seen if the image is seen. If the image has a title as attribute, FF will
show the title just fine, again as it is supposed to.

--
,-- --<--@ ---- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: -----------.
| weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html> |
| webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html> |
| zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html> |
`----------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
 
S

Starshine Moonbeam

Barbara de Zoete said:
If you mean alt text to show up as a tooltip: That's one of the
(mis)interpretations of IE. FF doesn't show them, because they're not supposed
to be seen if the image is seen. If the image has a title as attribute, FF will
show the title just fine, again as it is supposed to.

Ahhhhhhhh. That explains it then. Thanks.
 
R

Richard

Starshine Moonbeam wrote:

Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing I
noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?

In firefox, if no image is present, for what ever reason, the alt text will
be displayed.
Which is what is supposed to happen.
IE puts in an image "place holder" to show that an image is supposed to be
there but missing.
IE displays the "tooltip" message if anything can be found.

You will get hooked on firefox.
 
B

Bernhard Sturm

Starshine said:
Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing I
noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?

it's the wrong implementation of alt in IE. IE believes alt tag means
not 'alternative' but 'tooltip' which is wrong... FF interprets it
correctly. stick with FF and your life will get brighter :)


bernhard
 
N

Neal

it's the wrong implementation of alt in IE. IE believes alt tag means
not 'alternative' but 'tooltip' which is wrong...

In fairness, it does both. IE does implement alt correctly, but it also
implements it in a different, and IMO inappropriate way. (If the author
wants the little popup, there is HTML to do that already.)
 
J

jake

Bernhard Sturm said:
it's the wrong implementation of alt in IE. IE believes alt tag means
not 'alternative' but 'tooltip' which is wrong... FF interprets it
correctly. stick with FF and your life will get brighter :)


bernhard

'title' and 'alt' present ....... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
tooltip

'title' only present ........... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
tooltip

'alt' only present ............. IE shows the 'alt' contents in the
tooltip

Quite a smart decision IMO.

regards.
 
S

SpaceGirl

jake said:
'title' and 'alt' present ....... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
tooltip

'title' only present ........... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
tooltip

'alt' only present ............. IE shows the 'alt' contents in the tooltip

Quite a smart decision IMO.

regards.

Not really... it's a pain. If you have a design that uses layered
images, for the site to validate you should be using meaningful alt
tags. If IE is displaying the damn things it looks really messy if you
drag your mouse slowly over the content. So you end up having to put
blank title attributes in there as well. Another code bloat just to fix
a IE 'glitch'.

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
 
J

jake

SpaceGirl said:
Not really... it's a pain. If you have a design that uses layered
images, for the site to validate you should be using meaningful alt
tags. If IE is displaying the damn things it looks really messy if you
drag your mouse slowly over the content. So you end up having to put
blank title attributes in there as well. Another code bloat just to fix
a IE 'glitch'.
But. If you're downloading a page into IE with graphics switched off and
you want to maintain the layout (i.e. not expand the image box to
display the alternative text) you can still see the alternative text as
a tooltip. Very useful.

For every cloud there's a silver lining ......

regards.
 
B

Bernhard Sturm

jake said:
'title' and 'alt' present ....... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
tooltip

'title' only present ........... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
tooltip

'alt' only present ............. IE shows the 'alt' contents in the tooltip

Quite a smart decision IMO.

in fact it's a purely a wrong implementation: if you are a webdesigner
you want your 'alt' texts as alternative texts for UAs which do not show
any images, hence text browsers. And you use your 'title' as the title
of your image which will be visible TOGETHER with the image information
(hence accompaigning content to the images content).
For example take an image explaining how an e-commerce ordering
proceudre works. In your alt tag you would then describe this procedure
in text-form (because your audiance will not see the image, only the
alt-tag info). Further you ommit the title tag as it will not be
necessary for you image.
Now go figure how smart it is, if IE shows the 'alt' for this image...

bernhard
 
B

Bernhard Sturm

jake said:
But. If you're downloading a page into IE with graphics switched off and
you want to maintain the layout (i.e. not expand the image box to
display the alternative text) you can still see the alternative text as
a tooltip. Very useful.

go and read the W3C specs: alt tags are not tooltips... it's just a
misunderstanding of alt-tags

bernhard
 
N

Neal

Bernhard Sturm said:
go and read the W3C specs: alt tags are not tooltips... it's just a
misunderstanding of alt-tags

Alt attribute, even!


Hey - if you use dash-dash-space (-- ) in there, most newsreaders will
be able to snip your sig on reply automatically.
 
U

Uncle Pirate

jake said:
Thanks, but I don't think I need to ....



Still useful, though ............

If you have no need of reading the specs, I certainly hope you are not
creating web pages. Or are you another of those that uses a graphical
editor that puts out crap code and you don't care because IE makes it
"work"?

No, alt is not useful as a "tooltip", as others have tried to tell you,
that's what title is for. I suppose you use a wrench as a hammer too?
Personally, I attempt to use the right tool for the job; if I want a
title, I'll use the title attribute.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Cooordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
 
J

jake

Uncle Pirate said:
If you have no need of reading the specs, I certainly hope you are not
creating web pages.

And why is that?
Or are you another of those that uses a graphical editor that puts
out crap code and you don't care because IE makes it "work"?

Ummm ... what makes you say that?
No, alt is not useful as a "tooltip", as others have tried to tell you,
that's what title is for.

And just where have I said that you should use an 'alt' to give you a
tooltip *instead of* a title? Try and focus.
I suppose you use a wrench as a hammer too?

If I hadn't got a hammer, I would ;-)
Personally, I attempt to use the right tool for the job; if I want a
title, I'll use the title attribute.

And your point is?
regards.
 
T

Travis Newbury

Uncle said:
No, alt is not useful as a "tooltip", as others have tried to tell you,
that's what title is for. I suppose you use a wrench as a hammer too?

Actually in a pinch a wrench makes for a very good hammer.

No need to reply I am sure you are a capable web designer, though your
sites are pretty bland for my tastes (that was free constructive criticism)
 
U

Uncle Pirate

jake said:
And why is that?

I'll rely on an old motorcycle saying to answer that one: "If I have to
explain, you wouldn't understand."
Ummm ... what makes you say that?

You have no need to read the specs (recommendations)? Or are you saying
you're a genius and have learned the recommendations thoroughly?
And just where have I said that you should use an 'alt' to give you a
tooltip *instead of* a title? Try and focus.

No, you just said that it's handy that alt is used as a tooltip. It
isn't; it's incorrect and as someone else said, annoying to have to put
in all those alt="" to get rid of something that shouldn't be there in
the first place.
If I hadn't got a hammer, I would ;-)

Not go get a hammer, huh? Good thing you aren't my neighbor, I'd never
let you borrow any of my tools.
And your point is?

Again, if I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.

There are enough bad web sites/pages out there already created by people
that don't know how and won't learn how to do it properly (meet the
recommendations, even old transitional html is better than tag soup).
You apparantly want to be one more bad designer. Most people at least
have an excuse, they don't even know that there is a recommendation.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Cooordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
 
R

Richard

'title' and 'alt' present ....... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
tooltip
'title' only present ........... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
tooltip
'alt' only present ............. IE shows the 'alt' contents in the
tooltip

Only if an image or place holder is in existance.
If the user has "show place holders" turned off, nothing is shown.
firefox does it right.
 
U

Uncle Pirate

Travis said:
Actually in a pinch a wrench makes for a very good hammer.

As I told Jake, you'd never borrow my tools.
No need to reply I am sure you are a capable web designer, though your
sites are pretty bland for my tastes (that was free constructive criticism)

Thanks Travis. Yes, my tastes are more functional than fancy which
leaves my stuff a bit on the bland side. Starting next week, I'll be
teaching a class on advanced web design where, along with my class, I'll
be learning a lot of the fancier stuff. I haven't felt the need for any
of it so far, but who knows? Maybe I'll add some fancy stuff and liven
up some of my sites a bit.

On another note, I've been reading some of your posts and see that
unlike many, you are taking the criticism you've gotten and using it
constructivly. Learning is a good thing.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Cooordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
 

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