No alts in firefox?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Starshine Moonbeam, Jan 3, 2005.

  1. Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing I
    noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?

    --
    Starshine Moonbeam
    mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
    sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
     
    Starshine Moonbeam, Jan 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 01:51:10 -0600, Starshine Moonbeam
    <> wrote:

    >
    > Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing I
    > noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?
    >


    If you mean alt text to show up as a tooltip: That's one of the
    (mis)interpretations of IE. FF doesn't show them, because they're not supposed
    to be seen if the image is seen. If the image has a title as attribute, FF will
    show the title just fine, again as it is supposed to.

    --
    ,-- --<--@ ---- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: -----------.
    | weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html> |
    | webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html> |
    | zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html> |
    `----------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Jan 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. In article <opsj0oizlnx5vgts@zoete_b>, Barbara de Zoete
    () dropped a +5 bundle of words...

    > On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 01:51:10 -0600, Starshine Moonbeam
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing I
    > > noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?
    > >

    >
    > If you mean alt text to show up as a tooltip: That's one of the
    > (mis)interpretations of IE. FF doesn't show them, because they're not supposed
    > to be seen if the image is seen. If the image has a title as attribute, FF will
    > show the title just fine, again as it is supposed to.
    >


    Ahhhhhhhh. That explains it then. Thanks.



    --
    Starshine Moonbeam
    mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
    sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
     
    Starshine Moonbeam, Jan 3, 2005
    #3
  4. Starshine Moonbeam

    Richard Guest

    Starshine Moonbeam wrote:


    > Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing I
    > noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?


    In firefox, if no image is present, for what ever reason, the alt text will
    be displayed.
    Which is what is supposed to happen.
    IE puts in an image "place holder" to show that an image is supposed to be
    there but missing.
    IE displays the "tooltip" message if anything can be found.

    You will get hooked on firefox.
     
    Richard, Jan 3, 2005
    #4
  5. Starshine Moonbeam schrieb:
    > Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing I
    > noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?


    it's the wrong implementation of alt in IE. IE believes alt tag means
    not 'alternative' but 'tooltip' which is wrong... FF interprets it
    correctly. stick with FF and your life will get brighter :)


    bernhard
    ---
    www.daszeichen.ch
    remove nixspam to reply
     
    Bernhard Sturm, Jan 3, 2005
    #5
  6. Starshine Moonbeam

    Neal Guest

    On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 12:05:10 +0100, Bernhard Sturm
    <> wrote:

    >
    >
    > Starshine Moonbeam schrieb:
    >> Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One thing
    >> I noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it FF?

    >
    > it's the wrong implementation of alt in IE. IE believes alt tag means
    > not 'alternative' but 'tooltip' which is wrong...


    In fairness, it does both. IE does implement alt correctly, but it also
    implements it in a different, and IMO inappropriate way. (If the author
    wants the little popup, there is HTML to do that already.)
     
    Neal, Jan 3, 2005
    #6
  7. Starshine Moonbeam

    jake Guest

    In message <>, Bernhard Sturm
    <> writes
    >
    >
    >Starshine Moonbeam schrieb:
    >> Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One
    >>thing I noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it
    >>

    >
    >it's the wrong implementation of alt in IE. IE believes alt tag means
    >not 'alternative' but 'tooltip' which is wrong... FF interprets it
    >correctly. stick with FF and your life will get brighter :)
    >
    >
    >bernhard
    >---
    >www.daszeichen.ch
    >remove nixspam to reply
    >


    'title' and 'alt' present ....... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
    tooltip

    'title' only present ........... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
    tooltip

    'alt' only present ............. IE shows the 'alt' contents in the
    tooltip

    Quite a smart decision IMO.

    regards.

    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jan 3, 2005
    #7
  8. Starshine Moonbeam

    SpaceGirl Guest

    jake wrote:
    > In message <>, Bernhard Sturm
    > <> writes
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Starshine Moonbeam schrieb:
    >>
    >>> Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One
    >>> thing I noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it

    >>
    >>
    >> it's the wrong implementation of alt in IE. IE believes alt tag means
    >> not 'alternative' but 'tooltip' which is wrong... FF interprets it
    >> correctly. stick with FF and your life will get brighter :)
    >>
    >>
    >> bernhard
    >> ---
    >> www.daszeichen.ch
    >> remove nixspam to reply
    >>

    >
    > 'title' and 'alt' present ....... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
    > tooltip
    >
    > 'title' only present ........... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
    > tooltip
    >
    > 'alt' only present ............. IE shows the 'alt' contents in the tooltip
    >
    > Quite a smart decision IMO.
    >
    > regards.
    >


    Not really... it's a pain. If you have a design that uses layered
    images, for the site to validate you should be using meaningful alt
    tags. If IE is displaying the damn things it looks really messy if you
    drag your mouse slowly over the content. So you end up having to put
    blank title attributes in there as well. Another code bloat just to fix
    a IE 'glitch'.

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
     
    SpaceGirl, Jan 3, 2005
    #8
  9. Starshine Moonbeam

    jake Guest

    In message <>, SpaceGirl
    <> writes
    >jake wrote:
    >> In message <>, Bernhard Sturm
    >><> writes
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Starshine Moonbeam schrieb:
    >>>
    >>>> Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One
    >>>>thing I noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> it's the wrong implementation of alt in IE. IE believes alt tag
    >>>means not 'alternative' but 'tooltip' which is wrong... FF
    >>>interprets it correctly. stick with FF and your life will get brighter :)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> bernhard
    >>> ---
    >>> www.daszeichen.ch
    >>> remove nixspam to reply
    >>>

    >> 'title' and 'alt' present ....... IE shows the 'title' contents in
    >>the tooltip
    >> 'title' only present ........... IE shows the 'title' contents in
    >>the tooltip
    >> 'alt' only present ............. IE shows the 'alt' contents in the
    >>tooltip
    >> Quite a smart decision IMO.
    >> regards.
    >>

    >
    >Not really... it's a pain. If you have a design that uses layered
    >images, for the site to validate you should be using meaningful alt
    >tags. If IE is displaying the damn things it looks really messy if you
    >drag your mouse slowly over the content. So you end up having to put
    >blank title attributes in there as well. Another code bloat just to fix
    >a IE 'glitch'.
    >

    But. If you're downloading a page into IE with graphics switched off and
    you want to maintain the layout (i.e. not expand the image box to
    display the alternative text) you can still see the alternative text as
    a tooltip. Very useful.

    For every cloud there's a silver lining ......

    regards.

    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jan 3, 2005
    #9
  10. jake schrieb:

    > 'title' and 'alt' present ....... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
    > tooltip
    >
    > 'title' only present ........... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
    > tooltip
    >
    > 'alt' only present ............. IE shows the 'alt' contents in the tooltip
    >
    > Quite a smart decision IMO.


    in fact it's a purely a wrong implementation: if you are a webdesigner
    you want your 'alt' texts as alternative texts for UAs which do not show
    any images, hence text browsers. And you use your 'title' as the title
    of your image which will be visible TOGETHER with the image information
    (hence accompaigning content to the images content).
    For example take an image explaining how an e-commerce ordering
    proceudre works. In your alt tag you would then describe this procedure
    in text-form (because your audiance will not see the image, only the
    alt-tag info). Further you ommit the title tag as it will not be
    necessary for you image.
    Now go figure how smart it is, if IE shows the 'alt' for this image...

    bernhard
    ---
    www.daszeichen.ch
    remove nixspam to reply
     
    Bernhard Sturm, Jan 3, 2005
    #10
  11. jake schrieb:
    >> Not really... it's a pain. If you have a design that uses layered
    >> images, for the site to validate you should be using meaningful alt
    >> tags. If IE is displaying the damn things it looks really messy if you
    >> drag your mouse slowly over the content. So you end up having to put
    >> blank title attributes in there as well. Another code bloat just to
    >> fix a IE 'glitch'.
    >>

    > But. If you're downloading a page into IE with graphics switched off and
    > you want to maintain the layout (i.e. not expand the image box to
    > display the alternative text) you can still see the alternative text as
    > a tooltip. Very useful.


    go and read the W3C specs: alt tags are not tooltips... it's just a
    misunderstanding of alt-tags

    bernhard
    ---
    www.daszeichen.ch
    remove nixspam to reply
     
    Bernhard Sturm, Jan 3, 2005
    #11
  12. Starshine Moonbeam

    Neal Guest

    Bernhard Sturm <> wrote:

    > go and read the W3C specs: alt tags are not tooltips... it's just a
    > misunderstanding of alt-tags


    Alt attribute, even!

    > bernhard
    > ---
    > www.daszeichen.ch
    > remove nixspam to reply



    Hey - if you use dash-dash-space (-- ) in there, most newsreaders will
    be able to snip your sig on reply automatically.
     
    Neal, Jan 3, 2005
    #12
  13. Starshine Moonbeam

    jake Guest

    In message <>, Bernhard Sturm
    <> writes
    >
    >
    >jake schrieb:
    >>> Not really... it's a pain. If you have a design that uses layered
    >>>images, for the site to validate you should be using meaningful alt
    >>>tags. If IE is displaying the damn things it looks really messy if
    >>>you drag your mouse slowly over the content. So you end up having to
    >>>put blank title attributes in there as well. Another code bloat just
    >>>to fix a IE 'glitch'.
    >>>

    >> But. If you're downloading a page into IE with graphics switched off
    >>and you want to maintain the layout (i.e. not expand the image box to
    >>display the alternative text) you can still see the alternative text
    >>as a tooltip. Very useful.

    >
    >go and read the W3C specs:


    Thanks, but I don't think I need to ....

    >alt tags are not tooltips... it's just a misunderstanding of alt-tags


    Still useful, though ............

    >
    >bernhard
    >---
    >www.daszeichen.ch
    >remove nixspam to reply
    >


    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jan 3, 2005
    #13
  14. Neal schrieb:
    >> go and read the W3C specs: alt tags are not tooltips... it's just a
    >> misunderstanding of alt-tags

    >
    >
    > Alt attribute, even!


    true, you win :)

    >
    >> bernhard
    >> ---
    >> www.daszeichen.ch
    >> remove nixspam to reply

    >
    >
    >
    > Hey - if you use dash-dash-space (-- ) in there, most newsreaders will
    > be able to snip your sig on reply automatically.


    thx.. I will change that
     
    Bernhard Sturm, Jan 3, 2005
    #14
  15. Starshine Moonbeam

    Uncle Pirate Guest

    jake wrote:

    > In message <>, Bernhard Sturm
    > <> writes
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> jake schrieb:
    >>
    >> go and read the W3C specs:

    >
    >
    > Thanks, but I don't think I need to ....
    >
    >> alt tags are not tooltips... it's just a misunderstanding of alt-tags

    >
    >
    > Still useful, though ............


    If you have no need of reading the specs, I certainly hope you are not
    creating web pages. Or are you another of those that uses a graphical
    editor that puts out crap code and you don't care because IE makes it
    "work"?

    No, alt is not useful as a "tooltip", as others have tried to tell you,
    that's what title is for. I suppose you use a wrench as a hammer too?
    Personally, I attempt to use the right tool for the job; if I want a
    title, I'll use the title attribute.

    --
    Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
    Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
    Cooordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
    '94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
    A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
     
    Uncle Pirate, Jan 3, 2005
    #15
  16. Starshine Moonbeam

    jake Guest

    In message <41d96cfa$>, Uncle Pirate
    <> writes
    >jake wrote:
    >
    >> In message <>, Bernhard Sturm
    >><> writes
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> jake schrieb:
    >>>
    >>> go and read the W3C specs:

    >> Thanks, but I don't think I need to ....
    >>
    >>> alt tags are not tooltips... it's just a misunderstanding of
    >>>alt-tags

    >> Still useful, though ............

    >
    >If you have no need of reading the specs, I certainly hope you are not
    >creating web pages.


    And why is that?

    > Or are you another of those that uses a graphical editor that puts
    >out crap code and you don't care because IE makes it "work"?


    Ummm ... what makes you say that?

    >
    >No, alt is not useful as a "tooltip", as others have tried to tell you,
    >that's what title is for.


    And just where have I said that you should use an 'alt' to give you a
    tooltip *instead of* a title? Try and focus.

    >I suppose you use a wrench as a hammer too?


    If I hadn't got a hammer, I would ;-)

    >Personally, I attempt to use the right tool for the job; if I want a
    >title, I'll use the title attribute.


    And your point is?
    >


    regards.
    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jan 3, 2005
    #16
  17. Uncle Pirate wrote:

    > No, alt is not useful as a "tooltip", as others have tried to tell you,
    > that's what title is for. I suppose you use a wrench as a hammer too?


    Actually in a pinch a wrench makes for a very good hammer.

    No need to reply I am sure you are a capable web designer, though your
    sites are pretty bland for my tastes (that was free constructive criticism)

    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 3, 2005
    #17
  18. Starshine Moonbeam

    Uncle Pirate Guest

    jake wrote:

    > In message <41d96cfa$>, Uncle Pirate
    > <> writes
    >
    >> jake wrote:
    >>
    >>> In message <>, Bernhard Sturm
    >>> <> writes
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> jake schrieb:
    >>>>
    >>>> go and read the W3C specs:
    >>>
    >>> Thanks, but I don't think I need to ....
    >>>
    >>>> alt tags are not tooltips... it's just a misunderstanding of
    >>>> alt-tags
    >>>
    >>> Still useful, though ............

    >>
    >>
    >> If you have no need of reading the specs, I certainly hope you are
    >> not creating web pages.

    >
    >
    > And why is that?


    I'll rely on an old motorcycle saying to answer that one: "If I have to
    explain, you wouldn't understand."

    >
    >> Or are you another of those that uses a graphical editor that puts
    >> out crap code and you don't care because IE makes it "work"?

    >
    >
    > Ummm ... what makes you say that?


    You have no need to read the specs (recommendations)? Or are you saying
    you're a genius and have learned the recommendations thoroughly?

    >
    >>
    >> No, alt is not useful as a "tooltip", as others have tried to tell
    >> you, that's what title is for.

    >
    >
    > And just where have I said that you should use an 'alt' to give you a
    > tooltip *instead of* a title? Try and focus.


    No, you just said that it's handy that alt is used as a tooltip. It
    isn't; it's incorrect and as someone else said, annoying to have to put
    in all those alt="" to get rid of something that shouldn't be there in
    the first place.

    >
    >> I suppose you use a wrench as a hammer too?

    >
    >
    > If I hadn't got a hammer, I would ;-)


    Not go get a hammer, huh? Good thing you aren't my neighbor, I'd never
    let you borrow any of my tools.

    >
    >> Personally, I attempt to use the right tool for the job; if I want
    >> a title, I'll use the title attribute.

    >
    >
    > And your point is?


    Again, if I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.

    There are enough bad web sites/pages out there already created by people
    that don't know how and won't learn how to do it properly (meet the
    recommendations, even old transitional html is better than tag soup).
    You apparantly want to be one more bad designer. Most people at least
    have an excuse, they don't even know that there is a recommendation.

    --
    Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
    Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
    Cooordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
    '94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
    A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
     
    Uncle Pirate, Jan 3, 2005
    #18
  19. Starshine Moonbeam

    Richard Guest

    jake wrote:

    > In message <>, Bernhard Sturm
    > <> writes
    >>
    >>
    >>Starshine Moonbeam schrieb:
    >>> Downloaded Firefox tonight and I was playing around with it. One
    >>>thing I noticed is that no alt text shows up. Is it just me, or is it
    >>>

    >>
    >>it's the wrong implementation of alt in IE. IE believes alt tag means
    >>not 'alternative' but 'tooltip' which is wrong... FF interprets it
    >>correctly. stick with FF and your life will get brighter :)
    >>
    >>
    >>bernhard
    >>---
    >>www.daszeichen.ch
    >>remove nixspam to reply
    >>


    > 'title' and 'alt' present ....... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
    > tooltip


    > 'title' only present ........... IE shows the 'title' contents in the
    > tooltip


    > 'alt' only present ............. IE shows the 'alt' contents in the
    > tooltip


    Only if an image or place holder is in existance.
    If the user has "show place holders" turned off, nothing is shown.
    firefox does it right.
     
    Richard, Jan 3, 2005
    #19
  20. Starshine Moonbeam

    Uncle Pirate Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:

    > Uncle Pirate wrote:
    >
    >> No, alt is not useful as a "tooltip", as others have tried to tell
    >> you, that's what title is for. I suppose you use a wrench as a hammer
    >> too?

    >
    >
    > Actually in a pinch a wrench makes for a very good hammer.


    As I told Jake, you'd never borrow my tools.

    >
    > No need to reply I am sure you are a capable web designer, though your
    > sites are pretty bland for my tastes (that was free constructive criticism)
    >


    Thanks Travis. Yes, my tastes are more functional than fancy which
    leaves my stuff a bit on the bland side. Starting next week, I'll be
    teaching a class on advanced web design where, along with my class, I'll
    be learning a lot of the fancier stuff. I haven't felt the need for any
    of it so far, but who knows? Maybe I'll add some fancy stuff and liven
    up some of my sites a bit.

    On another note, I've been reading some of your posts and see that
    unlike many, you are taking the criticism you've gotten and using it
    constructivly. Learning is a good thing.

    --
    Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
    Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
    Cooordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
    '94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
    A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
     
    Uncle Pirate, Jan 3, 2005
    #20
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