Noob asking for help!

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Curt Zimmerman, Apr 11, 2005.

  1. Let me preface this request by stating that I know barely enough about
    HTML to get myself into trouble, so please bear with me. If you look
    at my code, you'll know what I mean.

    I'm writing a web page for my (very small) company, and seemed to be
    making good progess until I tested with different browsers. It works
    perfectly with Netscape and FireFox. I haven't tested with Opera and
    Mozilla yet. If you use one of these, please let me know if it
    appears correctly. The Flash modules go out of alignment with the
    background and buttons in IE when window size changes. Here is the
    link:

    http://www.staxowax.com/new/index.html

    I know there is a lot of motion going on, and the page is gaudy by
    most business standards. We're in the entertainment business, so
    flash sells, so to speak. Not all of the buttons work yet. Some of
    the pages have not been made. Our goal is to "spruce up the
    storefront" of our existing web site while keeping most of the current
    content. New background and link colors, same text.

    On the advice of a friend, I tried putting the page into a single cell
    table, but this didn't help. Would my problem be corrected using CSS?
    I'm not sure where to start. Could someone point me in the right
    direction? Thank you!

    Curt
    Curt Zimmerman, Apr 11, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Curt Zimmerman wrote:

    > Let me preface this request by stating that I know barely enough about
    > HTML to get myself into trouble, so please bear with me. If you look
    > at my code, you'll know what I mean.


    > I'm writing a web page for my (very small) company, and seemed to be
    > making good progess until I tested with different browsers. It works
    > perfectly with Netscape and FireFox. I haven't tested with Opera and
    > Mozilla yet. If you use one of these, please let me know if it
    > appears correctly.


    Sure thing...I'm using Opera 7.23, if that's good enough.

    <clickety click to the site> ...

    <snip>

    ....oops. After about 200KB, I got tired of waiting for the page to
    finish up being rendered, and bailed.

    --
    Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
    Who has implemented Usenet Solution #45933:
    Now killing all posts originating at Google Groups
    Blinky the Shark, Apr 11, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Curt Zimmerman

    Arne Guest

    Once upon a time *Curt Zimmerman* wrote:

    > Let me preface this request by stating that I know barely enough about
    > HTML to get myself into trouble, so please bear with me. If you look
    > at my code, you'll know what I mean.
    >
    > I'm writing a web page for my (very small) company, and seemed to be
    > making good progess until I tested with different browsers. It works
    > perfectly with Netscape and FireFox. I haven't tested with Opera and
    > Mozilla yet. If you use one of these, please let me know if it
    > appears correctly. The Flash modules go out of alignment with the
    > background and buttons in IE when window size changes. Here is the
    > link:
    >
    > http://www.staxowax.com/new/index.html
    >
    > I know there is a lot of motion going on, and the page is gaudy by
    > most business standards. We're in the entertainment business, so
    > flash sells, so to speak. Not all of the buttons work yet. Some of
    > the pages have not been made. Our goal is to "spruce up the
    > storefront" of our existing web site while keeping most of the current
    > content. New background and link colors, same text.
    >
    > On the advice of a friend, I tried putting the page into a single cell
    > table, but this didn't help. Would my problem be corrected using CSS?
    > I'm not sure where to start. Could someone point me in the right
    > direction? Thank you!
    >


    You have a very havy page there, takes over two minutes to load on
    dialup there is still many of them out there. But it worked Ok on my
    broadband, so took a look in my Mozilla browser :)

    The content is not centered on the screen, even if you have the
    <center> tag in the top of the body part. That's because you (as I
    see) are using "position: absolute;" on probably everthing, so the
    centering have no say in this matter. The absolut positioning push the
    content out of alignment (or causes a horizintal scrollbar) in smaller
    windows, also because the width of the content is almost 800 pixels.

    I would try to center the world.gif (convert it to .jpg and resize it
    first!), the header and bottom flash, and without absolut position.
    Then try to positioning the rest "around" them.

    --
    /Arne

    Top posters will be ignored. Quote the part you
    are replying to, no more and no less! And don't
    quote signatures, thank you.
    Arne, Apr 11, 2005
    #3
  4. "Curt Zimmerman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Let me preface this request by stating that I know barely enough about
    > HTML to get myself into trouble, so please bear with me. If you look
    > at my code, you'll know what I mean.
    >
    > I'm writing a web page for my (very small) company, and seemed to be
    > making good progess until I tested with different browsers. It works
    > perfectly with Netscape and FireFox. I haven't tested with Opera and
    > Mozilla yet. If you use one of these, please let me know if it
    > appears correctly. The Flash modules go out of alignment with the
    > background and buttons in IE when window size changes. Here is the
    > link:
    >
    > http://www.staxowax.com/new/index.html
    >
    > I know there is a lot of motion going on, and the page is gaudy by
    > most business standards. We're in the entertainment business, so
    > flash sells, so to speak. Not all of the buttons work yet. Some of
    > the pages have not been made. Our goal is to "spruce up the
    > storefront" of our existing web site while keeping most of the current
    > content. New background and link colors, same text.
    >
    > On the advice of a friend, I tried putting the page into a single cell
    > table, but this didn't help. Would my problem be corrected using CSS?
    > I'm not sure where to start. Could someone point me in the right
    > direction? Thank you!
    >
    > Curt


    Besides the page doesn't center, the top and bottom pictures linking back to
    index.html cover up buttons, probably due to the absolute coordinate
    locations you set them to. I'm using IE6.
    John W Cavoulas, Apr 11, 2005
    #4
  5. "John W Cavoulas" <> wrote in message
    news:6Zu6e.1903$63.44@fed1read02...
    > "Curt Zimmerman" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Let me preface this request by stating that I know barely enough about
    > > HTML to get myself into trouble, so please bear with me. If you look
    > > at my code, you'll know what I mean.
    > >
    > > I'm writing a web page for my (very small) company, and seemed to be
    > > making good progess until I tested with different browsers. It works
    > > perfectly with Netscape and FireFox. I haven't tested with Opera and
    > > Mozilla yet. If you use one of these, please let me know if it
    > > appears correctly. The Flash modules go out of alignment with the
    > > background and buttons in IE when window size changes. Here is the
    > > link:
    > >
    > > http://www.staxowax.com/new/index.html
    > >
    > > I know there is a lot of motion going on, and the page is gaudy by
    > > most business standards. We're in the entertainment business, so
    > > flash sells, so to speak. Not all of the buttons work yet. Some of
    > > the pages have not been made. Our goal is to "spruce up the
    > > storefront" of our existing web site while keeping most of the current
    > > content. New background and link colors, same text.
    > >
    > > On the advice of a friend, I tried putting the page into a single cell
    > > table, but this didn't help. Would my problem be corrected using CSS?
    > > I'm not sure where to start. Could someone point me in the right
    > > direction? Thank you!
    > >
    > > Curt

    >
    > Besides the page doesn't center, the top and bottom pictures linking back

    to
    > index.html cover up buttons, probably due to the absolute coordinate
    > locations you set them to. I'm using IE6.
    >
    >


    I'm on broadband and it took a huge amount of time to load up and also
    caused my comp to slow up.

    On IE and site worked fine despite taking ages to load

    HTH
    MagicFreebiesUK.co.uk, Apr 11, 2005
    #5
  6. Curt Zimmerman

    Uncle Pirate Guest

    Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > Curt Zimmerman wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Let me preface this request by stating that I know barely enough about
    >>HTML to get myself into trouble, so please bear with me. If you look
    >>at my code, you'll know what I mean.

    >
    >
    >>I'm writing a web page for my (very small) company, and seemed to be
    >>making good progess until I tested with different browsers. It works
    >>perfectly with Netscape and FireFox. I haven't tested with Opera and
    >>Mozilla yet. If you use one of these, please let me know if it
    >>appears correctly.

    >
    >
    > Sure thing...I'm using Opera 7.23, if that's good enough.
    >
    > <clickety click to the site> ...
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > ...oops. After about 200KB, I got tired of waiting for the page to
    > finish up being rendered, and bailed.
    >


    You didn't expect that? He said it was full of Flash. Since I don't
    even have the plugin installed (and don't want to), I didn't even bother.

    --
    Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
    Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
    Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
    '94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
    A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
    Uncle Pirate, Apr 11, 2005
    #6
  7. On 2005-04-10 22:46:34 -0400, Curt Zimmerman <> said:

    > I'm writing a web page for my (very small) company, and seemed to be
    > making good progess until I tested with different browsers. It works
    > perfectly with Netscape and FireFox. I haven't tested with Opera and
    > Mozilla yet. If you use one of these, please let me know if it
    > appears correctly. The Flash modules go out of alignment with the
    > background and buttons in IE when window size changes. Here is the
    > link:
    >
    > http://www.staxowax.com/new/index.html


    Since you are, by your own admission, in the early stages of learning,
    I would advise that you go to the bookstore and find books on web
    standards. While they will not help you avoid every browser bug, using
    them will help make your site look the same regardless of the browser.
    William Hamby, Apr 12, 2005
    #7
  8. William Hamby wrote:

    > Since you are, by your own admission, in the early stages of learning, I
    > would advise that you go to the bookstore and find books on web
    > standards. While they will not help you avoid every browser bug, using
    > them will help make your site look the same regardless of the browser.


    Actually just the opposite. If you stick to them you are assured of
    breaking in IE. Until all browsers adhere to the rules (read that as
    never), it is best to use them as a guide rather than a rule. So get
    the book, learn the rules, then learn what you have to do in the real world.



    --
    -=tn=-
    Travis Newbury, Apr 12, 2005
    #8
  9. On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:42:57 -0400, Travis Newbury <> wrote:

    > William Hamby wrote:
    >
    >> Since you are, by your own admission, in the early stages of learning,
    >> I would advise that you go to the bookstore and find books on web
    >> standards. While they will not help you avoid every browser bug, using
    >> them will help make your site look the same regardless of the browser.

    >
    > Actually just the opposite. If you stick to them you are assured of
    > breaking in IE. Until all browsers adhere to the rules (read that as
    > never), it is best to use them as a guide rather than a rule. So get
    > the book, learn the rules, then learn what you have to do in the real
    > world.
    >


    And then still, 'look the same regardless of the browser' is never
    achieved, regardless the efford. With graphical UA in mind: different OSs
    have different sets of font families for example. Also it is getting more
    and more difficult to know what size viewport the site is shown in
    (anything from a new and fast PDA to a just as modern wide screen goes).
    Different browsers have different interpretations of several features of
    css, all within standards as suggested by w3c mind you. Colours are
    different in the old fashioned 'tube screen' versus an LCD screen. Et
    cetera.

    What one can try to accomplish is a site that 'looks _good_ regardless of
    the browser' and make the same impression on your visitor, whether s/he
    visits with WinXP IE5.5 or MacOS FireFox. And that still workes okay in
    all sorts of non graphical UA (lynx, screen readers, aural browsers et
    cetera, except WebTV as i understand it - never tried that one though, so
    really don't know).


    --
    ,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
    | weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
    `-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
    Barbara de Zoete, Apr 12, 2005
    #9
  10. Barbara de Zoete wrote:
    > And then still, 'look the same regardless of the browser' is never
    > achieved, regardless the efford.


    If you are talking about absolutes then yes, it will never be achieved.
    If you are talking about real world usage, then it can be achieved
    most of the time. The question that needs to be asked is, does "most
    of the time" meet your sites needs?

    --
    -=tn=-
    Travis Newbury, Apr 12, 2005
    #10
  11. On 2005-04-12 04:42:57 -0400, Travis Newbury <> said:

    > Actually just the opposite. If you stick to them you are assured of
    > breaking in IE. Until all browsers adhere to the rules (read that as
    > never), it is best to use them as a guide rather than a rule. So get
    > the book, learn the rules, then learn what you have to do in the real
    > world.


    Actually, just the opposite. The browsers are moving toward conforming
    to those standards, so to sacrifice your markup just because they might
    still suck is no excuse. Browsers interpret markup all the same. If you
    use proper CSS (and tweak them to accomplish the same thing in
    different browsers - which is possible and common), you'll be doing the
    right thing.
    William Hamby, Apr 13, 2005
    #11
  12. On 2005-04-12 05:05:59 -0400, "Barbara de Zoete" <> said:

    > And then still, 'look the same regardless of the browser' is never
    > achieved, regardless the efford.


    That's not true. It's completely possible to make any website look the
    same in any browser, albeit using some hacks. As for different fonts on
    different O/Ss, it's easy - image replacement.
    William Hamby, Apr 13, 2005
    #12
  13. William Hamby wrote:
    >> Actually just the opposite. If you stick to them you are assured of
    >> breaking in IE. Until all browsers adhere to the rules (read that as
    >> never), it is best to use them as a guide rather than a rule. So get
    >> the book, learn the rules, then learn what you have to do in the real
    >> world.

    > Actually, just the opposite. The browsers are moving toward conforming
    > to those standards, so to sacrifice your markup just because they might
    > still suck is no excuse. Browsers interpret markup all the same. If you
    > use proper CSS (and tweak them to accomplish the same thing in different
    > browsers - which is possible and common), you'll be doing the right thing.


    Well we disagree about browsers ever conforming to the specs, and we
    also disagree about what the standards are good for. You seem to think
    they are an absolute. I think they are a guide.

    --
    -=tn=-
    Travis Newbury, Apr 13, 2005
    #13
  14. William Hamby wrote:
    >> And then still, 'look the same regardless of the browser' is never
    >> achieved, regardless the efford.

    > That's not true. It's completely possible to make any website look the
    > same in any browser, albeit using some hacks. As for different fonts on
    > different O/Ss, it's easy - image replacement.


    Nope got to go with Barb on this one.


    --
    -=tn=-
    Travis Newbury, Apr 13, 2005
    #14
  15. On 2005-04-12 21:08:39 -0400, Travis Newbury <> said:

    > William Hamby wrote:
    >>> And then still, 'look the same regardless of the browser' is never
    >>> achieved, regardless the efford.

    >> That's not true. It's completely possible to make any website look the
    >> same in any browser, albeit using some hacks. As for different fonts on
    >> different O/Ss, it's easy - image replacement.

    >
    > Nope got to go with Barb on this one.


    Then I challenge both you and her to post any markup of your choice,
    and I'll show you a page that displays identically in any graphical
    browser.
    William Hamby, Apr 13, 2005
    #15
  16. Curt Zimmerman

    Toby Inkster Guest

    William Hamby wrote:

    > That's not true. It's completely possible to make any website look the
    > same in any browser, albeit using some hacks. As for different fonts on
    > different O/Ss, it's easy - image replacement.


    OK -- here's an easy test.

    Show me a page that looks identical in Internet Explorer 5.0 for Windows
    and w3m 0.5.1 on Linux.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Apr 13, 2005
    #16
  17. William Hamby wrote:
    > On 2005-04-12 21:08:39 -0400, Travis Newbury <> said:
    >
    >> William Hamby wrote:
    >>
    >>>> And then still, 'look the same regardless of the browser' is never
    >>>> achieved, regardless the efford.
    >>>
    >>> That's not true. It's completely possible to make any website look
    >>> the same in any browser, albeit using some hacks. As for different
    >>> fonts on different O/Ss, it's easy - image replacement.

    >>
    >>
    >> Nope got to go with Barb on this one.

    >
    >
    > Then I challenge both you and her to post any markup of your choice, and
    > I'll show you a page that displays identically in any graphical browser.


    Just the fact that I have my browsers open full screen and Barb doesn't
    eliminates the possibility that, that will happen. Also, font size
    could be different, I could use my own personal style sheet changing
    your colors, way to many variables even if we use the same browser for
    it to appear the same on both of our computers.

    Back to what I said earlier, if we are talking about absolutes (and your
    challenge is) then you can not be sure it will appear the same. If you
    are talking about what happen in the real world, then these differences
    may be acceptable.


    --
    -=tn=-
    Travis Newbury, Apr 13, 2005
    #17
  18. On 2005-04-13 04:46:13 -0400, Travis Newbury <> said:

    > Just the fact that I have my browsers open full screen and Barb doesn't
    > eliminates the possibility that, that will happen. Also, font size
    > could be different, I could use my own personal style sheet changing
    > your colors, way to many variables even if we use the same browser for
    > it to appear the same on both of our computers.


    Browser size makes no difference. Even if you one uses a fluid layout
    (which I never do), the rendering of the page is still the same, it
    simply fills your screen.

    Image replacement would not be affected by overriding the stylesheet.
    Besides, users who choose to do so don't expect a page to be rendered
    properly - they expect it to render their own way. It's their choice,
    but I don't know why anyone would want to since they won't see what the
    author has produced.

    My challenge still stands.
    William Hamby, Apr 13, 2005
    #18
  19. On 2005-04-13 03:18:12 -0400, Toby Inkster
    <> said:

    > w3m


    is a text-based browser. If you'll actually read what I posted, I said
    graphical browsers.
    William Hamby, Apr 13, 2005
    #19
  20. Curt Zimmerman

    Steve Pugh Guest

    William Hamby <> wrote:

    >Image replacement would not be affected by overriding the stylesheet.


    Oh yeah? A user stylesheet with

    h1, h2, h3 { background-image: none !important;}

    h1 *, h2 *, h3 * {display: inline !important; text-indent: 0
    !important; margin: 0 !important; position: static !important;}

    plus the normal user CSS for colours, font sizes, etc. is likely to
    defeat a large number of cases of image replacement.

    >Besides, users who choose to do so don't expect a page to be rendered
    >properly - they expect it to render their own way. It's their choice,


    Quite right.

    >but I don't know why anyone would want to since they won't see what the
    >author has produced.


    Because often what the author has produced is hard to read and use for
    some portion of the audience.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Apr 13, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. walala
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,046
    walala
    Sep 13, 2003
  2. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    573
    Matt Humphrey
    Jan 17, 2006
  3. Replies:
    2
    Views:
    348
    Oliver Wong
    Feb 22, 2006
  4. blar
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    752
    Karl Core
    Dec 20, 2004
  5. MO
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    390
Loading...

Share This Page