Note to fellow newsgroup posters

[Frederick Gotham]

Hello everyone. I am sorry for my behaviour on this newsgroup.
Particularly, I want to apologise to the newsgroup regulars who have put up
with my childish behaviour.

The truth is, I'm a nineteen year old man who hasn't fully grown up into an
adult yet. It took recent events in my life to open my eyes to the way I am
living my life. I think I have turned a corner today, because I think I may
have finally accepted that I am an adult. (It brings tears to my eyes as I
write this). I don't know if it's simply a normal thing in life to have a
little trouble transitioning from being a child to an adult. In particular,
I think I myself have/had particular trouble accepting the end of my
childhood and the beginning of adulthood.

Looking back on my behaviour both in real life and on this newsgroup, I can
only describe it as childish. I am not ashamed of my past behaviour, but I
realise entirely that it is not the way an adult behaves (not the kind of
adult I aspire to in anyway).

I have had disagreements with regulars on this newsgroup, particularly
Keith Thompson and Richard Heathfield. Irrespective of the nature of the
arguments, or of who was in the wrong, I carried myself in a childish
manner. Keith, I am sorry. Richard, I am sorry. To everyone else here too,
I am sorry.

I realise that the demographic I'm speaking to right now is a little alien
to me. My guess would be that the mean age of the participants here is
about forty. A forty year old has more experience in life than me. Perhaps
some of you have at one stage went through what I am going through right
now. Maybe everyone goes through this child-to-adult predicament, I don't
know.

From this moment forward, I aim to be an adult. I aim to behave, think and
act like an adult, and to take responsibility for myself. I might have some
difficulty, I don't know, but I'll try.

My real name is not Frederick Gotham, and I am not brave enough to post
using my real name. The reason for this is that I am ashamed/embarassed of
my childish behaviour, a thing which I am trying to work on. One day, when
I am the adult I want to be, I will post under my real name.

In posting this, I wish to put my past behind me. I ask you, the regulars
on this newsgroup, to burn your old opinions of me and to give me a second
chance. If I fail, then I ask that you again burn your opinions of me and
give me a third chance. Give me a forth chance and a fifth chance. Please
extend to me an infinity of chances. We make mistakes in life, and I
believe that making mistakes is probably the best way of progressing.

Finally, I'm not quite sure why I wrote this. With the attitude I had
yesterday, the posting of this would seem cowardly and defeatist,
belittling and indignifying to myself. Today though, I don't quite care
about those things. In being an adult, I think at some stage you have to
accept who you are, and you can't spend your whole life afraid to express
yourself honestly -- well you can, but it's not exactly the path to
enlightenment.

I predict that I will receive varied responses to this. I hope that most
people will appreciate what I've done, and congratulate and encourage me. I
also realise that I'll probably receive posts mocking me. Thankfully
though, I would not place any worth on the opinion of someone who would
mock me for expressing myself like this.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Frederick Gotham said:

Hello everyone. I am sorry for my behaviour on this newsgroup.

Well done! And welcome to comp.lang.c.

Keith, I am sorry. Richard, I am sorry. To everyone else here too,
I am sorry.

Thank you. It isn't easy to say sorry (and mean it) the first time, is it?
Trust me, it gets easier (sigh!).

I ask you, the regulars
on this newsgroup, to burn your old opinions of me and to give me a second
chance.

Sure, no problem.

If I fail, then I ask that you again burn your opinions of me and
give me a third chance. Give me a forth chance and a fifth chance. Please
extend to me an infinity of chances.

Cf Matthew 18:21-22

Finally, I'm not quite sure why I wrote this.

Because you finally wised up?

I also realise that I'll probably receive posts mocking me.

Unfortunately that is probably true. Pay such articles no heed. None of the
grown-ups here will mock you.

And, again, welcome to comp.lang.c.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: normal service will be restored as soon as possible. Please do not
adjust your email clients.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

Hello everyone. I am sorry for my behaviour on this newsgroup.
Particularly, I want to apologise to the newsgroup regulars who have put up
with my childish behaviour.

I wonder which of the "regulars" forged this post.

To whomever it was, well done!

 

[Keith Thompson]

Hello everyone. I am sorry for my behaviour on this newsgroup.
Particularly, I want to apologise to the newsgroup regulars who have put up
with my childish behaviour. [...]
I have had disagreements with regulars on this newsgroup, particularly
Keith Thompson and Richard Heathfield. Irrespective of the nature of the
arguments, or of who was in the wrong, I carried myself in a childish
manner. Keith, I am sorry. Richard, I am sorry. To everyone else here too,
I am sorry.

[...]

Frederick, thank you, and welcome back. Apology enthusiastically
acepted.

 

[John Smith]

I wonder which of the "regulars" forged this post.

To whomever it was, well done!

Always the cynic, eh Kenny?

 

[Kenny McCormack]

Always the cynic, eh Kenny?

It's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it.

Now, let's open a pool on how long (how many hours and minutes) it takes
for KT-the-netcop to demonstrate his insecurity by posting a response to
John telling him not to "feed the troll".

 

[Keith Thompson]

Always the cynic, eh Kenny?

John, Kenny McCormack is a troll. He seems to post here for the sole
purpose of deliberately disrupting this newsgroup (or perhaps he has
some other motivation, but it really doesn't matter). We've found
that the best way to deal with him is to ignore him *completely*. I
understand the temptation to snipe at an easy target, but that seems
to be exactly what he wants. Please don't feed the troll.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

John, Kenny McCormack is a troll, blah, blah, blah...

Bingo!

What do I win???

 

[Al Balmer]

Frederick Gotham said:


Well done! And welcome to comp.lang.c.

It's always good to find a reason to eliminate a filter <g>. Welcome
back, Frederick.

 

[John Smith]

John, Kenny McCormack is a troll. He seems to post here for the sole
purpose of deliberately disrupting this newsgroup (or perhaps he has
some other motivation, but it really doesn't matter). We've found
that the best way to deal with him is to ignore him *completely*. I
understand the temptation to snipe at an easy target, but that seems
to be exactly what he wants. Please don't feed the troll.

With all due respect, Keith, I'll feed whomever I damn please.
The newsgroup is not your property, nor is it your prerogative to
set the rules. If the best way to deal with the likes of Kenny is
to ignore him, then take your own advice.

 

[CBFalconer]

Keith Thompson wrote:
.... snip ...

With all due respect, Keith, I'll feed whomever I damn please.
The newsgroup is not your property, nor is it your prerogative to
set the rules. If the best way to deal with the likes of Kenny is
to ignore him, then take your own advice.

My, we do take kindly to constructive advice. PLONK.

 

[Frederick Gotham]

John Smith:

With all due respect, Keith, I'll feed whomever I damn please.

Yes you may, of course, we can't stop you.

The newsgroup is not your property, nor is it your prerogative to
set the rules. If the best way to deal with the likes of Kenny is
to ignore him, then take your own advice.

People who have experience with trolls know that any discussion with them is
fruitless.

Just as you have the freedom to feed whomever you please, newsgroup
participants have the freedom to lump you into the same category as Kenny if
they feel that your discussions, such as this one, are fruitless.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

John Smith:


Yes you may, of course, we can't stop you.


People who have experience with trolls know that any discussion with them is
fruitless.

Just as you have the freedom to feed whomever you please, newsgroup
participants have the freedom to lump you into the same category as Kenny if
they feel that your discussions, such as this one, are fruitless.

What's really funny here is Mr. "Gotham" (self-admitted a pseudonym -
NTTAWWT) is clearly a troll (well done, sir), but is trying so hard to
ingratiate himself with the regs. Won't work. Don't bother.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

CBFalconer said:

John Smith wrote:


My, we do take kindly to constructive advice. PLONK.

It is a great shame that even a thread specifically begun in a praiseworthy
spirit of reconciliation has been turned to discord and division. Are we
really so bad at getting along with each other as the latter posts in this
thread seem to indicate?

Usenet works best when people try to see the best in each other. This is
rendered the more difficult by cynicism and, yes, deliberate trolling, but
it is still not impossible. We get the Usenet we deserve. If we'd like to
see more harmony, more co-operation, and more friendship in this group, it
has to start with each one of us determining to make that possible by being
more harmonious, co-operative, and friendly in our own articles.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: normal service will be restored as soon as possible. Please do not
adjust your email clients.

 

[Keith Thompson]

Keith Thompson wrote: [...]

John, Kenny McCormack is a troll. He seems to post here for the sole
purpose of deliberately disrupting this newsgroup (or perhaps he has
some other motivation, but it really doesn't matter). We've found
that the best way to deal with him is to ignore him *completely*. I
understand the temptation to snipe at an easy target, but that seems
to be exactly what he wants. Please don't feed the troll.

With all due respect, Keith, I'll feed whomever I damn please. The
newsgroup is not your property, nor is it your prerogative to set the
rules. If the best way to deal with the likes of Kenny is to ignore
him, then take your own advice.

I have never claimed that this newsgroup is my property. I do not set
the rules, or rather guidelines, I merely offer advice.

As for ignoring Kenny McCormack, that's exactly what I do. My
comments above were addressed to you, not to him, and they are the
result of a considerable amount of experience. I've dealt with trolls
in the past, and not always wisely. I've argued at length with trolls
before, and it's almost always a pure waste of time. Worse, it
encourages them to continue the argument, to the detriment of the
newsgroup. If you're so inclined, you might take a look at his
posting history and see how much good arguing with him has done.

Ignoring a troll means repeatedly letting him have the last word,
whatever the provocation, and counting on the other readers to
understand that silence implies boredom, not assent. Ideally, he'll
get bored and go away. At worst, if nobody replies, at least those
who use killfiles won't be bothered. This newsgroup would be a better
place of KM never posted here; we can achieve the same effect by
pretending that he doesn't.

I'm not trying to impose anything on you, I'm offering you advice.
You are of course under no obligation to accept it, but *in my
opinion* it would benefit you and the newsgroup if you did.

 

[Mark McIntyre]

With all due respect, Keith, I'll feed whomever I damn please.

Thats fine, but you do realise that by replying to Kenny, you've
forced me, and anyone else who killfiled him, to see his post, and
that doesn't damn well please /me.

The newsgroup is not your property, nor is it your prerogative to
set the rules. If the best way to deal with the likes of Kenny is
to ignore him, then take your own advice.

Bear in mind that responding rudely to polite requests from the
regulars and especially the gurus who post here is NOT a good way to
recieve help when you want it, and /is/ a good way to get killfiled
yourself.
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

 

[Al Balmer]

With all due respect, Keith, I'll feed whomever I damn please.
The newsgroup is not your property, nor is it your prerogative to
set the rules. If the best way to deal with the likes of Kenny is
to ignore him, then take your own advice.

He *is* ignoring McCormick. He's politely suggesting that you do the
same. It's a good suggestion.

(It's interesting that the phrase "With all due respect" is invariably
followed by something not at all respectful

 

[Bill Pursell]

Keith Thompson wrote: [...]

John, Kenny McCormack is a troll. <snip> Please don't feed the troll.

With all due respect, Keith, I'll feed whomever I damn please. The
newsgroup is not your property, nor is it your prerogative to set the
rules. If the best way to deal with the likes of Kenny is to ignore
him, then take your own advice.

I'm not trying to impose anything on you, I'm offering you advice.
You are of course under no obligation to accept it, but *in my
opinion* it would benefit you and the newsgroup if you did.

I don't normally like to chime in with "me, too", but for the sake
of showing a consensus...."me, too." My opinion matches
Keith's, and I would like to see an increase in the signal
to noise ratio in this group. I think your reaction to Keith's
advice was excessive and quite rude.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

Usenet works best when people try to see the best in each other. This
is rendered the more difficult by cynicism and, yes, deliberate
trolling, but it is still not impossible. We get the Usenet we deserve.
If we'd like to see more harmony, more co-operation, and more
friendship in this group, it has to start with each one of us
determining to make that possible by being more harmonious,
co-operative, and friendly in our own articles.

Well said, sir!

I think that is the first piece of actual humanity I've ever seen you
display in this newsgroup. Again, well done.

 

[John Smith]

Thats fine, but you do realise that by replying to Kenny, you've
forced me, and anyone else who killfiled him, to see his post, and
that doesn't damn well please /me.

Do you think it is reasonable, in an open forum, to expect others
to avoid replying to anyone whom you have, for one reason or
another, chosen to killfile? The point that Kenny McCormack,
rather annoyingly, tries to make is sometimes valid: some of the
participants in this ng take themselves a little too seriously.
In any robust forum, a gadfly who occasionally punctures the
pompous (call him a troll if you will) can serve a purpose.
Usenet is community property. Telling me whom I may and may not
reply to is not "constructive advice."