nvu and "frames"

Discussion in 'HTML' started by melissa.gruber@gmail.com, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. Guest

    I recently downloaded nvu so i could teach myself how to make websites.
    My background is not at all in design or websites but I did take a
    couple programming courses back in highschool and know basic html.

    I understand that nvu doesn't make frames for you but they have a demo
    on their website explaining how to simulate frames with cascading style
    sheets. I got confused because while it explains the code, it doesn't
    explain how to use it in nvu. The demo makes reference to defining the
    rules as ids and not classes but there is no such option to create that
    type of rule. I tried using the elements defined by a selector option,
    thinking it sounded close but the demo also never explains how to
    assign these ids or selectors to text or images that go in the "frames"
    that the rules are supposed to make. I tried defining the rules as
    classes instead because I figured out how to use classes, but the
    "frames" keep moving around when i try to add things to them.

    Can anyone shed light on what i'm doing wrong?? Or should i just ditch
    nvu for something else (that won't cost me an arm and a leg)?
    , Jul 12, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. wrote:
    > I recently downloaded nvu so i could teach myself how to make websites.
    > My background is not at all in design or websites but I did take a
    > couple programming courses back in highschool and know basic html.
    >
    > I understand that nvu doesn't make frames for you but they have a demo
    > on their website explaining how to simulate frames with cascading style
    > sheets. I got confused because while it explains the code, it doesn't
    > explain how to use it in nvu. The demo makes reference to defining the
    > rules as ids and not classes but there is no such option to create that
    > type of rule. I tried using the elements defined by a selector option,
    > thinking it sounded close but the demo also never explains how to
    > assign these ids or selectors to text or images that go in the "frames"
    > that the rules are supposed to make. I tried defining the rules as
    > classes instead because I figured out how to use classes, but the
    > "frames" keep moving around when i try to add things to them.


    <div id="blah">

    #blah { ... }

    or

    div#blah { ... }

    > Can anyone shed light on what i'm doing wrong?? Or should i just ditch
    > nvu for something else (that won't cost me an arm and a leg)?


    Textpad - get from www.textpad.com (doesn't cost an arm or a leg)

    Notepad - get from start > run > notepad (doesn't even cost a finger)

    Marc
    Marc Bradshaw, Jul 12, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Marc Bradshaw wrote:
    > Notepad - get from start > run > notepad (doesn't even cost a finger)


    Really? Seems to cost $199.99.
    Leif K-Brooks, Jul 12, 2005
    #3
  4. jb Guest

    > I understand that nvu doesn't make frames for you but they have a demo
    > on their website explaining how to simulate frames with cascading style
    > sheets.


    Their "frame simulator" fails completely in IE.

    http://www.nvu.com/demos/frames/frameSimulate.html
    jb, Jul 12, 2005
    #4
  5. jb wrote:

    [someone else wrote:]
    >> I understand that nvu doesn't make frames for you but they have a
    >> demo on their website explaining how to simulate frames with
    >> cascading style sheets.

    >
    > Their "frame simulator" fails completely in IE.
    >
    > http://www.nvu.com/demos/frames/frameSimulate.html


    Please see the thousands of posts regarding Internet Exploder not
    recognizing or supporting "position: fixed".

    (Also, please don't strip quoting attributes. Thanks.)

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jul 12, 2005
    #5
  6. Jim Scott Guest

    On 11 Jul 2005 17:34:37 -0700, wrote:

    > I recently downloaded nvu so i could teach myself how to make websites.
    > My background is not at all in design or websites but I did take a
    > couple programming courses back in highschool and know basic html.
    >
    > I understand that nvu doesn't make frames for you but they have a demo
    > on their website explaining how to simulate frames with cascading style
    > sheets. I got confused because while it explains the code, it doesn't
    > explain how to use it in nvu. The demo makes reference to defining the
    > rules as ids and not classes but there is no such option to create that
    > type of rule. I tried using the elements defined by a selector option,
    > thinking it sounded close but the demo also never explains how to
    > assign these ids or selectors to text or images that go in the "frames"
    > that the rules are supposed to make. I tried defining the rules as
    > classes instead because I figured out how to use classes, but the
    > "frames" keep moving around when i try to add things to them.
    >
    > Can anyone shed light on what i'm doing wrong?? Or should i just ditch
    > nvu for something else (that won't cost me an arm and a leg)?


    I use nvu, having moved from Fpage.
    True it will not create frames, but it coped with them if you create then
    elsewhere. During the learning process I found notepad++
    http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/about.php
    I then went here http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_frames.asp to learn
    what to do.
    I sue them as photo pages.
    --
    Jim
    Tyneside UK
    http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott
    Jim Scott, Jul 12, 2005
    #6
  7. Jim Scott Guest

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:12:51 GMT, Jim Scott wrote:

    > On 11 Jul 2005 17:34:37 -0700, wrote:
    >
    >> I recently downloaded nvu so i could teach myself how to make websites.
    >> My background is not at all in design or websites but I did take a
    >> couple programming courses back in highschool and know basic html.
    >>
    >> I understand that nvu doesn't make frames for you but they have a demo
    >> on their website explaining how to simulate frames with cascading style
    >> sheets. I got confused because while it explains the code, it doesn't
    >> explain how to use it in nvu. The demo makes reference to defining the
    >> rules as ids and not classes but there is no such option to create that
    >> type of rule. I tried using the elements defined by a selector option,
    >> thinking it sounded close but the demo also never explains how to
    >> assign these ids or selectors to text or images that go in the "frames"
    >> that the rules are supposed to make. I tried defining the rules as
    >> classes instead because I figured out how to use classes, but the
    >> "frames" keep moving around when i try to add things to them.
    >>
    >> Can anyone shed light on what i'm doing wrong?? Or should i just ditch
    >> nvu for something else (that won't cost me an arm and a leg)?

    >
    > I use nvu, having moved from Fpage.
    > True it will not create frames, but it coped with them if you create then
    > elsewhere. During the learning process I found notepad++
    > http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/about.php
    > I then went here http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_frames.asp to learn
    > what to do.
    > I sue them as photo pages.


    OOPS for sue read use!
    Blush.
    --
    Jim
    Tyneside UK
    Jim Scott, Jul 12, 2005
    #7
  8. Paul Watt Guest

    "Jim Scott" <> wrote in message
    news:xehqyz3mh9hc$...
    > On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:12:51 GMT, Jim Scott wrote:
    >
    >> On 11 Jul 2005 17:34:37 -0700, wrote:
    >>
    >>> I recently downloaded nvu so i could teach myself how to make websites.
    >>> My background is not at all in design or websites but I did take a
    >>> couple programming courses back in highschool and know basic html.
    >>>
    >>> I understand that nvu doesn't make frames for you but they have a demo
    >>> on their website explaining how to simulate frames with cascading style
    >>> sheets. I got confused because while it explains the code, it doesn't
    >>> explain how to use it in nvu. The demo makes reference to defining the
    >>> rules as ids and not classes but there is no such option to create that
    >>> type of rule. I tried using the elements defined by a selector option,
    >>> thinking it sounded close but the demo also never explains how to
    >>> assign these ids or selectors to text or images that go in the "frames"
    >>> that the rules are supposed to make. I tried defining the rules as
    >>> classes instead because I figured out how to use classes, but the
    >>> "frames" keep moving around when i try to add things to them.
    >>>
    >>> Can anyone shed light on what i'm doing wrong?? Or should i just ditch
    >>> nvu for something else (that won't cost me an arm and a leg)?

    >>
    >> I use nvu, having moved from Fpage.
    >> True it will not create frames, but it coped with them if you create then
    >> elsewhere. During the learning process I found notepad++
    >> http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/about.php
    >> I then went here http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_frames.asp to learn
    >> what to do.
    >> I sue them as photo pages.

    >
    > OOPS for sue read use!
    > Blush.
    > --
    > Jim
    > Tyneside UK



    Why on earth would you want to use frames??
    Paul
    Paul Watt, Jul 12, 2005
    #8
  9. Jim Scott Guest

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:41:53 +0100, Paul Watt wrote:

    > "Jim Scott" <> wrote in message
    > news:xehqyz3mh9hc$...
    >> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:12:51 GMT, Jim Scott wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 11 Jul 2005 17:34:37 -0700, wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I recently downloaded nvu so i could teach myself how to make websites.
    >>>> My background is not at all in design or websites but I did take a
    >>>> couple programming courses back in highschool and know basic html.
    >>>>
    >>>> I understand that nvu doesn't make frames for you but they have a demo
    >>>> on their website explaining how to simulate frames with cascading style
    >>>> sheets. I got confused because while it explains the code, it doesn't
    >>>> explain how to use it in nvu. The demo makes reference to defining the
    >>>> rules as ids and not classes but there is no such option to create that
    >>>> type of rule. I tried using the elements defined by a selector option,
    >>>> thinking it sounded close but the demo also never explains how to
    >>>> assign these ids or selectors to text or images that go in the "frames"
    >>>> that the rules are supposed to make. I tried defining the rules as
    >>>> classes instead because I figured out how to use classes, but the
    >>>> "frames" keep moving around when i try to add things to them.
    >>>>
    >>>> Can anyone shed light on what i'm doing wrong?? Or should i just ditch
    >>>> nvu for something else (that won't cost me an arm and a leg)?
    >>>
    >>> I use nvu, having moved from Fpage.
    >>> True it will not create frames, but it coped with them if you create then
    >>> elsewhere. During the learning process I found notepad++
    >>> http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/about.php
    >>> I then went here http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_frames.asp to learn
    >>> what to do.
    >>> I sue them as photo pages.

    >>
    >> OOPS for sue read use!
    >> Blush.
    >> --
    >> Jim
    >> Tyneside UK

    >
    >
    > Why on earth would you want to use frames??
    > Paul


    How else would I do this
    http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott/Jimspics_frames.html
    --
    Jim
    Tyneside UK
    Jim Scott, Jul 12, 2005
    #9
  10. David Dorward, Jul 12, 2005
    #10
  11. Els Guest

    David Dorward wrote:

    > Jim Scott wrote:
    >
    >>> Why on earth would you want to use frames??

    >
    >> How else would I do this
    >> http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott/Jimspics_frames.html

    >
    > http://www.porjes.com/butterflies/ (and no, you don't have to have /that/
    > specific layout, you can have a simple column just as easily ... more
    > easily in fact)


    Just in case people don't know - the original is back online via:
    http://usenetshit.info/

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, Jul 12, 2005
    #11
  12. dorayme Guest

    > From: "Paul Watt" <>
    >
    > Why on earth would you want to use frames??
    > Paul


    Look back over the various discussions on this newsgroup and you will see
    there are reasons. They may not be decisive reasons, frames may not be so
    wise in general but it is not as if there are no reasons on God's earth...

    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 12, 2005
    #12
  13. Jim Scott Guest

    Jim Scott, Jul 12, 2005
    #13
  14. dorayme Guest

    > From: Jim Scott <>
    >
    > You go your way and I'll go mine.
    >


    And shall we never meet again?
    Must it be Old Lange Syne?

    Should old acquaintance be forgot,
    And never brought to mind;
    Should old acquaintance be forgot,
    And days of old lang syne.

    For old lang syne, my dear,
    For old lang syne,
    We'll take a cup of kindness yet,
    For old lang syne.

    We two have run about the hills,
    And pulled the daisies fine.
    We've wandered many a weary foot,
    Since old lang syne.

    We two have paddled in the burn,
    From morning sun till dine,
    But seas between us broad have roared,
    Since old lang syne.

    And here's a hand my trusty friend,
    And put your hand in mine.
    We'll take a right good willie-waught,
    For old lang syne.

    And surely you'll lift up your glass,
    For surely I'll lift mine,
    And we'll drink a cup of kindness yet,
    For old lang syne.

    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 13, 2005
    #14
  15. Jim Scott Guest

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:39:06 +1000, dorayme wrote:

    >> From: Jim Scott <>
    >>
    >> You go your way and I'll go mine.


    You say you love me
    And you're thinkin' of me,
    But you know you could be wrong.
    You say you told me
    That you wanna hold me,
    But you know you're not that strong.
    I just can't do what I done before,
    I just can't beg you any more.
    I'm gonna let you pass
    And I'll go last.
    Then time will tell just who has fell
    And who's been left behind,
    When you go your way and I go mine.

    You say you disturb me
    And you don't deserve me,
    But you know sometimes you lie.
    You say you're shakin'
    And you're always achin',
    But you know how hard you try.
    Sometimes it gets so hard to care,
    It can't be this way ev'rywhere.
    And I'm gonna let you pass,
    Yes, and I'll go last.
    Then time will tell just who has fell
    And who's been left behind,
    When you go your way and I go mine.

    The judge, he holds a grudge,
    He's gonna call on you.
    But he's badly built
    And he walks on stilts,
    Watch out he don't fall on you.

    You say you're sorry
    For tellin' stories
    That you know I believe are true.
    You say ya got some
    Other kinda lover
    And yes, I believe you do.
    You say my kisses are not like his,
    But this time I'm not gonna tell you why that is.
    I'm just gonna let you pass,
    Yes, and I'll go last.
    Then time will tell who fell
    And who's been left behind,
    When you go your way and I go mine.

    Bob Dylan
    --
    Jim
    Tyneside UK
    Jim Scott, Jul 13, 2005
    #15
  16. Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Jim Scott quothed

    > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:39:06 +1000, dorayme wrote:
    >
    > >> From: Jim Scott <>
    > >>
    > >> You go your way and I'll go mine.

    >
    > You say you love me
    > And you're thinkin' of me,
    > But you know you could be wrong.
    > You say you told me
    > That you wanna hold me,
    > But you know you're not that strong.
    > I just can't do what I done before,
    > I just can't beg you any more.
    > I'm gonna let you pass
    > And I'll go last.
    > Then time will tell just who has fell
    > And who's been left behind,
    > When you go your way and I go mine.


    Little Miss Muffet
    Sat on a tuffet
    Eating some chocolate ants.

    Along came a spider
    And sat down beside her
    And made her shit in her pants.

    - Neredbojias

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
    Neredbojias, Jul 13, 2005
    #16
  17. Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Paul Watt quothed

    > Why on earth would you want to use frames??
    > Paul


    Did you ever stop to think that maybe he's *not* from this planet?

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
    Neredbojias, Jul 13, 2005
    #17
  18. SpaceGirl Guest

    Paul Watt wrote:

    >
    > Why on earth would you want to use frames??
    > Paul
    >
    >


    A throw-away statement like that doesn't help anyone and indicates a
    lack of understanding of web technologies :ppp

    There are many *good* design reasons for using Frames. There is nothing
    WRONG with frames. The only issue with them is when misused they can
    have a lot of negative effects on the user experience and search engines
    etc. However as part of a well thought out design they are just like any
    other web technology.

    The same could be said of almost anything you do on a web page.

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
    # this post (c) Miranda Thomas 2005
    # explicitly no permission given to Forum4Designers
    # to duplicate this post.
    SpaceGirl, Jul 13, 2005
    #18
  19. Paul Watt Guest

    "SpaceGirl" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Paul Watt wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Why on earth would you want to use frames??
    >> Paul

    >
    > A throw-away statement like that doesn't help anyone and indicates a lack
    > of understanding of web technologies :ppp
    >
    > There are many *good* design reasons for using Frames. There is nothing
    > WRONG with frames. The only issue with them is when misused they can have
    > a lot of negative effects on the user experience and search engines etc.
    > However as part of a well thought out design they are just like any other
    > web technology.
    >
    > The same could be said of almost anything you do on a web page.
    >
    > --
    >
    >
    > x theSpaceGirl (miranda)
    >
    > # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    > # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
    > # this post (c) Miranda Thomas 2005
    > # explicitly no permission given to Forum4Designers


    > # to duplicate this post.


    Ok, I apologise for the throw away remark, but it just baffles me that
    HTML/Web design for beginners books still teach about frames.
    I realise that there are *some* good reasons for using frames, but surely
    the Bad outweighs the good.

    As for an simple alternative, couldn't he just use a DIV with overflow set
    to Auto?

    Paul
    Paul Watt, Jul 19, 2005
    #19
  20. dorayme Guest

    > From: "Paul Watt" <>
    >
    > Ok, I apologise for the throw away remark, but it just baffles me that
    > HTML/Web design for beginners books still teach about frames.
    > I realise that there are *some* good reasons for using frames, but surely
    > the Bad outweighs the good.
    >
    > As for an simple alternative, couldn't he just use a DIV with overflow set
    > to Auto?



    As far as I have heard, this is not as well supported as frames.

    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 20, 2005
    #20
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